Is Zell Miller the most God-awful Dem in the history of mankind??

[joeybee12]

The question speaks for itself.

[Frodo]

1. No.

I think Reagan was a Democrat for a while.

And quite a few Democrats have switched parties rather than continue to vote for Daschle etc. for majority leader. The Senate would never have been 50/50 without two or three democrats switching parties (all while Zell hung around).

Like Reagan he seems to be saying "the party left him" instead of the other way around. Before getting too pissed off, we better check our six to make sure there are not a couple more who will bail if we lose 2-3 seats next year.

[joeybee12]

3. No, no, no--respond in the heat of the moment!

It's the only fun way!

And I don't think Zev is running for re-election.

How does the LARGE African-American community in GA feel about this?

[Frodo]

4. He's not running again.

And he HAD said that he would not endorse either candidate to replace him (R or D). Now it seems he will be endorsing Burr by default.

The African American community is unliely to have much of a say, though they are probably glad to see him go.

There are too many "Zell Democrats" in GA who would vote for him... but few other Democrats. GA is in the bushes for 2004. No chance at a senate pickup for us.

[joeybee12]

5. Are you from GA?

Didn't Clinton take Georgia both times?

[Frodo]

11. NC now. Was in VA.

I have family in GA, but I do't want to live there.


And yes I think he did. Amazing how open the south is to voting for moderate southerners???

[joeybee12]

14. Yeah, Northerners will vote for Southerners, but not vice-versa

[JVS]

16. In the spirit of equality I will no longer vote for Southerners

We need to balance this trend.

[joeybee12]

17. Yeah, but Dumbo isn't a southerner--you might have to vote for one to

re-defeat him. He's a northern Yankee, born and bred in Connecticut!

[JVS]

18. I vote Northerner in memory of the sacrifice of the 1st Minnesota

[mlawson]

24. Blanket statement!

Not one repook president has been Southern. Yet, Gore is Southern; remember 2000?

[joeybee12]

27. Remember Dukakis

Also, there's a lot of discussion among Dems that they need a Southerner--and they're concerned that Dean--a NE'er--will get the nomination. That's why the Democratic Leadership (an oxymoron if there ever was) is pushing Clark.

[Frodo]

31. So? And not one Democratic president has been black

But African Americans tend to vote for Democrats.

This isn't a question of "how do you get southerners to vote for a republican?" It's "how do you get southern Democrats (who are more conservative than northern Democrats) to support a Democratic candidate for President?"

If the question was "how can a Republican get more black support?" I might say "Run an African American Republican" (Colin Powell might not have gotten a majority of blacks if he ran in 2000, but he would have crushed the 9% Republican average and Democrats would not have stood a chance). If you responded that it would't help Democrats to run a black candidate, why should it help republicans? I would give you the same answer - you need to spend more time following politics.

[mlawson]

36. I have followed politics since 1960.

And I can remember Ike as president, both terms. So, don't tell me that I need to spend more time at it.

My point was, Southerners vote for Southern prez candidates (Clinton, Carter, LBJ), and they vote for non-Southern candidates (Nixon, Ronnie, Poppy). Just like with everyone else, they vote for the PERSON, and unfortunately the PARTY. I haven't heard anyone here say they voted regionally since Carter was running the first time, when it was a novelty to have a real Southern president.

If 'Southerners won't vote for anyone from NE', then how did Poppy bush win in 1988?

[joeybee12]

37. They don't seem to vote for Northern Dems, do they?

And Poppy painted himself as a Texan.

[mlawson]

38. Your original post said

that 'Northerners will vote for Southerners, not vice versa'. So long as there are huge Baptist congregations in the South, and the member voters do exactly what the 'pastors' tell them to do, they will continue to vote for the repooks. And they do VOTE, as opposed to the Dems' constituents, who might or might not. My argument is that *most* Southerners will vote for anyone, regardless of where the candidates are from. I did not specifiy which party was involved.

[joeybee12]

39. Ok, ok, but you gotta admit that the so-called Dem leadership

sees this as an issue.

This may be the year EVERYONE votes against Bush!

[mlawson]

40. Maybe they do, I dunno.

But I would bet you right now, that the 'leadership' is grooming Kerry for nominee, and he ain't from here.

It is *possible* that Edwards could carry NC, because (in part) we have never had a NC president, and some voters might like that idea. But probably not many. That idea didn't help Gore last year to carry TN. Again, I really don't think that most voters here care where a candidate is from; the very OLD ones, maybe, but not the younger ones.

Where I live, people are from everywhere. My best friends are from MI, IL, NE, FL, NC, India, CA, WV, GA, MS, VA.... Only the smallest towns are predominately 'native Southern'.

[joeybee12]

41. I think the Dem leadership has dropped Kerry for Clark

Seriously, you could tell they were behind him, but I thibnk it's pretty clear he won't get the nomination. They liked the idea of a Vietnam veteran.

[mlawson]

42. I hope so.

I just can't see Kerry beating bush. As superficial as this is, the apolitical masses will reject Kerry, because he looks 'old', or doesn't quite look as if he is in good health. I really think Clark would have a better chance.

But: Kerry has too many political chits to cash in, to lose the nomination to a 'newbie' like Gen Clark. He will NOT go down gracefully, if all this happens. WAAAY too powerful for that. Neither will Dean or Lieberman.

[joeybee12]

43. I think anyone would beat Bush (well, most anyone)

Kerry just seems desperate these days. I think his campaign peaked, and that's not a good sign.

[Frodo]

44. Hmmm. So what's your excuse?

You've spent a lot of time... maybe it wasn't "quality time". :-)

Seriously, you've missed the point. It isn't "southerners", it's southern Democrats. Southern Democrats are LESS likely to vote for a northern Democrat than they otherwise would be and MORE likely to vote for the republican. Southern Republicans are more likely to vote for ANY Republican, since they are already further right than a southern Dem. Get it? Republicans don't significantly reduce their southern base by drafting someone from outside the region since he will ALWAYS be preferable to the Democrat.

Notice in your example that the rule is born out? The southerners voted for the southern democrat when there was one and the republican when there wasn't. The non-southerners are all Republicans.

I'll say it again. It doesn't do the Republicans any good to nominate a southerner because that vote is already locked up (in the absence of a southern democrat) just as it makes no sense (or rather "no political benefit") for democrats to nominate an African American because we already have THAT vote sewn up.

The point is recognizing where the political center of gravity is in each state/region. If republicans nominate someone from Alabama they could lose lots of republicans in the NE because they would perceive him as TOO conservative (Northeastern Republicans looking more like Democrats than Southern Republicans).

[Rowdyboy]

2. From my birth in 1954 until 1972 in the southern district

of Mississippi I was "represented" by a Democratic congressman by the name of William Colmer. Jesse Helms was an angel compared to him, Strom Thurmond a gentleman. Colmer was mean, vindictive, incredibly far-right, hated blacks, fought every progressive measure that came down the pipes, and generally ruled with an iron fist.

He was a long time Democratic Chairman of the US House Judiciary Committee.

[joeybee12]

30. Ah, those were the good old days--wait, they weren't!

I don't recall the name--usually, really big mega-racists are known elsewhere.

[LynneSin]

6. Who is Zev Miller?

Is he related to Zell Miller??

:shrug:

[joeybee12]

8. Smart**s!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LynneSin]

10. Better than being a dumbass

[joeybee12]

13. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Take it away! Take it away!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LynneSin]

19. Then stop calling me a smartass

Was just doing my duties as local lounge spellchecker

:shrug:

[joeybee12]

20. I take it back!!!! Now take away that photo--which is what I meant!

It's killing me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[LynneSin]

21. Oh what? You'll open a can of Whoopass on me??

[joeybee12]

22. No, make it stop!!! If there's a God it will end!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[terrya]

7. Wasn't Lester Maddox a Democrat?

HE would be the worst Democrat in history than Zell Miller.

[denverbill]

9. So was George Wallace.

As a matter of fact, most Southern Democrats were racist assholes prior to 1960, and most racist assholes were Southern Democrats. Reagan recruited them all to the Republican party however. The ones that were Democrats decided to change their attitudes. The ones that wanted to remain racist assholes changed parties.

[joeybee12]

12. Hey, is Wallace even alive? I can't remember!

[Padraig18]

32. No.

He died, with his best friend and personal attendant, a black man, at his side...

[mitchum]

15. No, but he is a sorry piece of shit

[joeybee12]

23. Who do you think is the worst????????

[mitchum]

35. Wallace, Stennis, Thurmond, Maddox, John Wayne Gacy...

[mlawson]

25. The Dems who turned against Gore in 2000 were worse.

I remember Breaux and Torricelli, just a FEW days after the election, were on camera urging Gore to hurry up and concede!! To me, that is far worse!!!

BTW, I am NOT defending zell. He is a POS....

[joeybee12]

28. Yeah, and those who were just plain silent!!!!!!!!!

God, if a stolen election doesn't rile you up, nothing will!

[Padraig18]

26. Nah.

So many were worse: George Wallace, Lester Maddox, et al...

[geniph]

29. To quote Skinner, "Fuck that guy."

'nuff said.

[NoPasaran]

33. Jefferson Davis!

He led a slaveholders' insurrection fer chrissake!

[JVS]

34. Oh, we have a winner!