Yes - Tales From Topographic Oceans: Artistic masterstroke or codswallop

[Mike Daniels]

or something in between?

_________________________________________

Basically, when your keyboardist has take-out food delivered on stage and eats it while you're in the middle of performing a selection from your new album on tour, that's never a good sign.


For the record, I go with "something in between".

I like long extended works by rock bands (Tull's "Thick as a Brick" and "Passion Play", "Supper's Ready" by Genesis, "Close to the Edge", etc) but I never could get into Tales.

Perhaps it was the pretentious liner notes explaining the "grand" concept, the fact that a lot of the songs meandered endlessly with little variation, the unlistenable to this day "Side 3" (this comes from someone who likes Larks Tounge/Starless & Bible Black period King Crimson), or perhaps I just didn't understand (more than usual) just what the hell Jon was jabbering on about in his lyrics.

I have revisited the album recently and can enjoy it now as a musical equivalent of an "impressionistic" picture (esp. Side 2) but no way will I ever consider it a major breakthrough in the musical form (rock division) or deep artistic statement.

Your thoughts?

[XNASA]

1. Unlistenable.

Wakeman called it "Tales from Toby's Graphic Go-cart".

:popcorn:

[Magrittes Pipe]

2. Pretentious jetsam spat out by self-important hucksters.

[XNASA]

5. How could you say such a thing?

[CanuckAmok]

8. ...

:spray:

[Mike Daniels]

23. Is that an actual concert photo or a press shot?

No wonder Anderson's sitting down... I don't think I see any space on stage for him to actually stand.

[CBGLuthier]

35. That;s from Journey to the Center of the Earth isn't it?

[imperialismispasse]

36. Cool chair

[Fenris]

3. The musical equivalent of dysentery.

[MN ChimpH8R]

4. Somewhere inbetween

Sides 1, 2, and much of 4 are quite beautiful. The problem was that they had to fill out 2 whole LPs. Some judicious editing of sides 3 and four could result in a masterpiece that fits on one CD.

I like the Wetton/Bruford KC, too. That was one of the brainiest, edgiest and most interesting bands in rock history.

[Mike Daniels]

6. Wakeman said if CD format had existed in the mid 70's

that the album's ambitions could have been better managed and the final result would have been a bit tighter and less bloated.

I still think you would have had to do a lot of nip and tuck on side 3 to make it something you'd sit through more than once.

[no name no slogan]

13. Crimso Mk IV == best progrock line-up EVER

The "Larks Tongues" line-up was absolutely freaking amazing. They did stuff 30 years ago that nobody has even come close to duplicating. The albums are okay, but the live stuff from that era is mind-blowing.

They were still fairly decent after Muir (and then Cross) left, too, but The five-piece was amazing, IMHO. Experimental, progressive, aggressive and quite dangerous.

[MN ChimpH8R]

14. You've heard "The Great Deceiver" box set?

All live material from the Fripp/Cross/Wetton/Bruford quartet. There is music on those discs that would scare most metal musicians out of the room as well as those ballads like "Exiles" that are so mournful and gorgeous. "Doctor Diamond" is one of the more diabolical songs I've ever heard and is only on the live recordings of that era.

Fripp is a god. I met him once on a Frippertronics tour back in '79. He's of small stature but radiates an incredible aura of power and intelligence. You automatically step back if you get too close to him. He must be a fascinating and difficult man to work for/with.

[no name no slogan]

16. Yes. Absolutely stunning.

I like to put it on late at night after I've popped the Ambien. Fecking mind-blowing stuff. IIRC "The Nightwatch" 2-CD set has some of the same material and was recorded at an Amsterdam gig in front of a mostly chemically-altered audience.

Didn't Fripp play at the Walker in Mpls on the 1979 tour? I think I own a recording from that tour (on vinyl). He is a mad genius, IMHO, and one of the most under-appreciated musicians working today.

[MN ChimpH8R]

18. Yep - I saw him at the Walker

a friend of mine who worked in a record store was his handler for the gig. Part of that concert was preserved on "Let the Power Fall - an album of Frippertronics"

The Night Watch CD is mind-frying, too. A lot of the "Starless and Bible Black" LP was recorded at that gig too, some of it added to in the studio.

Total Crimhead here.

[no name no slogan]

21. THAT'S the record!

I have that somewhere in storage. That and Eno/Fripp's "Evening Star" were my first exposures to Frippertronics. Fascinating stuff from a technical perspective. It must have been a trip to meet the man!

It's interesting to listen to "Starless and Bible Black" and compare it to the stuff from "The Nightwatch"-- especially when David Cross's mellotron melts down after the first part of "The Nightwatch". Playing live is always unpredictable...

[sendero]

30. Exactly..

... this lineup produced "Lark's Tongues in Aspic", "Starless and Bible Black", and the STUNNING "Red" - three of the best, most fantastic, most incredible, most stupendous recordings in the history of recorded music.

Ok, really I'm not exaggerating here. Even my 15 year old son recognizes their greatness!

[MissMillie]

7. Something in between

I love "The Revealing Science of God". I think it's masterful.

But I got the sense, and I understand it has been confirmed by some of the members of the band, that Yes had too much material for a single album, but not enough for a double album. Much of the album does seem like it doesn't fit with the rest of it--like filler.

[no name no slogan]

9. An inexcusable sin

And the reason why Yes will NEVER be as good as Gabriel-era Genesis, IMHO. Hard to believe that piece of dreck was the follow-up to the amazing Close to the Edge.

Pretensious, unlistenable, wank-o-riffic twaddle by uptight public schoolboys. Even worse than Tormato. :puke:

[MissMillie]

11. Tormato is under-rated

But I agree that Close to the Edge is a masterpiece, and Going for the One is right up there with it.

[Commie Pinko Dirtbag]

22. I have this strange feeling about a track in that one: "Parallels".

It seems they played/produced it negligently. Could be the BEST Yes song of all time if it was more polished.

Am I completely off base?

[MissMillie]

24. Not at all

Parallels starts off big and never seems to go anywhere from there. I think if they had started it differently, either a different pace, or starting off less instrumentation, then build up to something, it would have been much better.

[Taverner]

10. I like Jam music

And I HATED this album - but then again I think Yes has great musicians, and terrible songwriting skills. It's as if they write their tunes thinking "this is a new musical theory - let's apply it."

[HughBeaumont]

12. It's a "master-stroke", alright.

But as far as long songs go, I'd rather listen to this than ANY Phish or Dead album. "Revealing Science of God" brings the damned art rock, money.

Wakeman's hilarious. I remember Carl Palmer once said about ELP "We made a couple of good albums, but the rest was crap". Would you be in a band that was recording crap to you?

[Mike Daniels]

19. Well I'd give ELP credit for one better than Carl does

Definitely the first album and Brain Salad Surgery. I'd be willing to say that the album before BSS was pretty good as well ("Trilogy"?).

Taurkus can go either way / Pictures at an Exhibition was art-rock pretension gone amok.

But after BSS it was all crap..

[HughBeaumont]

27. Pretty accurate assessment, except

I like the LIVE Pictures video from the Lyceum Theater in 1971 - that's just some damned good playing. The primitive nature of the keys used (knobs instead of presets and that big-ass Hammond/Leslie combo) makes you appreciate it even more.

I mean, where else can you see Keith Emerson not only give a theremin a good hand job, but wipe his ass with it as well?

After BSS, their best output was that Aaron Copeland as NFL Film music. As the fast part kicks in, you can almost hear some deep-voiced guy going "With the ball on the Dallas twenty, the Oiler line opened up a chasm for Campbell . . . "

[TrogL]

15. Stop trying so hard

to analyze this album. It's supposed to be impressionistic.

Think of the long stable sections as minimalism.

[dolo amber]

17. It's some kind of a "stroke" alright...

:eyes:

[DelawareValleyDem]

20. Yes jumped the shark with Tales

[B3Nut]

25. Hmm, I like Side 3. It's 4 I'm not as fond of...

I love the nylon-string stuff Steve Howe plays on this track. I don't pay much attention to Jon's lyrics as most of his lyrical output is kerfuffle anyway. ;) Beautiful-to-listen-to kerfuffle, but kerfuffle nonetheless (though not as downright new-age-on-polyester-cheesy as The Age Of Aquarius!). :D 1 and 2 I like as well, but in all of the tracks it's obvious there's a lot of filler. Wakeman has said multiple times that "Tales" would have been a great single album. He also said that they would be hashing stuff out in the studio that should have been nailed down in rehearsals. The oceanic-sounding Mellotron and Moog interplay on side 2 is a treat to listen to, at least for us keyboard mooks. :D

Todd in Beerbratistan

[MN ChimpH8R]

26. Can't beat these

[B3Nut]

33. ** DROOOOOL **

I've always wanted a 'tron and a Minimoog. My wife would freak if I got a Mellotron though...it's bad enough in the house with my B-3, L-100, and M-100 Hammonds taking up space. Though if I did the puppy-eyes thing, I think she'd put up with it. :D

Can't afford a 'tron though....used ones are scarce and new ones (yup, they're makin 'em again! Tapes, tube preamps, and all!) are $5K. Ouch.

Todd in Beerbratistan

[MN ChimpH8R]

34. Three Hammonds!?

Wow - you are livin' large, Todd. Leslies too? Actually a 'tron is a lot smaller than any Hammond. A friend of mine has one and it is so cool. I wanted a Mellotron so bad back in the 1970s I could taste it. But a teenager with no money wasn't gettin' no Mellotron. :( My Korg Triton Pro has great 'tron string, choir and brass sounds using the Vintage Keyboards expansion module so that will have to do.

Now if I could find an original ARP Quadra in working order........

[B3Nut]

37. I have two Leslies...

my working Leslie 45 (with 2-speed motors) is at my church gig with my beater '52 B-2. The sole Leslie (a single-speed 21H) at the house is missing some parts, but Christmas is coming and my wife wants to know what I want, so I think a parts order is in the offing. :)

So that Vintage Keys card for the Triton has good Tron sounds? Might have to get one if that's the case...I have a standard Triton.

My '52 B-2 is the only one of my Hammonds I actually bought...my B-3 was my late great aunt's, my L-100 was bought by a friend at an estate with a single-rotor Leslie for $150, he gave me the organ in exchange for some work on his M-3. My M-100 was found a few weeks ago along Mineral Point Road in Madison in someone's trash. It was in a yard sale for $50, but the sale was closed when I went back to buy it. Few weeks later I saw it on the curb, so I borrowed a Caravan and nabbed it. :) Got some work to do on it (stuck pedals) but it fires up and plays strongly, so I think it'll be a good machine.

My wife is quite supportive of my musical habits actually...puts up with the keyboard, guitar, and bass crap I've accumulated over the years. She'd actually beat me if I ever gave up music, since it's my main outlet.

Todd in Beerbratistan, multi-instrumentormentalist ;)

[KitchenWitch]

28. An acquired taste

[pitohui]

29. codswallop

hated it, just hated it

glad i'm not alone

[chknltl]

31. Loved Yessongs and everything earlier, still do....

I owned 'Tales' but could never get into it myself.

[sendero]

32. I'm a big Yes fan..

... and this recording is the worst of their 1970-1976 period.

After that, they made some real stinkers (Drama, Tormato), but before that only their nascent efforts, Yesterdays and Time and a Word were comparably lame.

Pity, TFTO had its moments. Had they edited it down to a single disc, it would have been pretty good (assuming they chopped out the correct portions :))

[mr blur]

38. It's about 4 sides too long,

whereas most of their others are only 2 sides too long.

[Rabrrrrrr]

39. It's fucking brilliant!

And what's this about eating during a performance?

[Mike Daniels]

40. Wakeman has never been a fan of the album

and to show his disinterest in the entire proceedings he arranged at one performance for a restaurant to deliver food to him while the show was in progress. The story is that he just stood/sat at his keyboards and ate his meal on stage during the times he wasn't playing.

I would gather that this took place during "The Ancient" which seems to start with about 10 minutes of nothing but percussion and someone torturing a cat and very little in the way of keyboard playing that would involve any real attention or concentration.

[Rabrrrrrr]

44. Gotcha!

That's pretty cool... and bizarre.

It's too bad he's not a fan of the album.

[Mike Daniels]

42. Deleted - dupe post

[Chichiri]

41. "Ritual" is a masterstroke; everything else is codswallopish.

[Zomby Woof]

43. Boring wank-a-thon

I despise 99% of that regressive art-rawk shit from the 70's, because it was boring AND pretentious - bad enough qualities by themselves, but as a combo - phew!

And Jon Anderson's voice is too much a vise-grip on the nads to suit me.

Can't stand Yes, not even their "good" albums.