Clinton Admonishes Dean

[DJcairo]

snip>
In the interview, conducted last month in his Harlem office in New York, Mr. Clinton also admonished Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean, without specifically naming him, for saying that he alone represents "the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."
Calling on the party's liberal and centrist wings to stop their ideological warfare, Mr. Clinton said he had "no objection in this primary season Candidate X saying, 'I'm for that,' and Candidate Y saying, 'I'm against it.' You've got to have a little of that."
"But I don't believe that either side should be saying, 'I'm a real Democrat and the other one's not,' or, 'I'm a winning Democrat and the other one's not,' " he said.
Throughout his campaign, Mr. Dean, an antiwar liberal who has attacked his chief rivals for the party's nomination for supporting the war in Iraq, has brought Democrats to their feet, cheering, with the line: "I'm Howard Dean and I represent the Democratic wing of the Democratic Party."
snip>
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20031022-104645-8779r.htm

[CMT]

1. the real essence of the story is that Clinton thinks we can't win if

we present ourselves as being "too liberal". I don't think Dean has to worry about that. He is a Clintonian Democrat. The article also refers to Clinton's closeness to Al From who has been decidedly anti-Clinton as well as to Wes Clark. But Dean thinks that Clinton is not taking sides and that's good enough for me. In the end Clinton will be out on the hustlings for the Dem nominee and that is all that counts.

[NewYorkerfromMass]

3. Here's newsmax' spin on this:

"...Clinton is quoted as slamming Gov. Dean for being too liberal to win the general election."

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/10/23/110705.shtml

[E_Zapata]

12. Nah, clinton is just putting his support behind Clark.

I guess clinton doesn't really care if someone is a democrat or not -- as long as it gets the tri-lateral commission agenda through (and maybe a spot for his wife in the white house).

don't get me wrong, I luv the Big Dog...but I am not so naive to think that he has our best interests in mind when push comes to shove.

[polpilot]

39. Clinton needs to book a flight to Colorado & chill with the 'not Senator

from NY'.

Dean '04...The New Democratic Leader of theb NEW Democratic Party.

[Hawkeye-X]

2. Why believe the Moonie Times?

:eyes:

[RevolutionStartsNow]

4. I wouldn't be shocked...

to hear Clinton say that. But so what? Not sure why this is news.

Bill will be getting on board the Dean Express soon enough...

[GOPFighter]

6. It's true

I read the interview in the American Prospect, but that comment was just one tiny part of the interview.

[papau]

5. I like the other 3 quotes better - and note that he did not say "Dean"

although Dean has gone negative by name or obvious reference a bit more than others (except for perhaps Lieberman - and of course Gep & Kerry have taken a few shots at the others).

In any case I liked "We can't win if people think we're too liberal. But we can't get our own folks out if people think we have no convictions. So the trick is to get them both."

And, "The public is operationally progressive and rhetorically conservative. The more they believe that you're careful with tax money and responsible in the way you run the programs and require responsibility from citizens, the more the public in general is willing to be liberal in the expenditure of tax money."

And, "The more the public believes the Democrats can be trusted with the national security of America, to protect and defend the country against terror and weapons of mass destruction, the more free they are emotionally to think about the other issues. Therefore, I think it is highly counterproductive to spend a great deal of time trying to identify the wings of the party and each wing criticize the other."

[DJcairo]

7. Clinton is right and that's why Dean doesn't use that line anymore

[Wickerman]

8. Thanks for posting the real info

and getting past the sound bytes. Shheeesh, when stuff is taken out of context....

[NewYorkerfromMass]

10. and who will be more "trusted with the national security of America"?

Dean or Kerry? or even Clark? think about it. Who has more experience? This is THE issue. Period. Economics FOLLOWS this.

[E_Zapata]

13. You're right, Clinton didn't say "DEAN"

But Dean, himself, described himself as the democratic wing of the democratic party. So, this is really just semantics. Clinton is talking about Dean.

[chimpymustgo]

14. Hope Dean will take heed, and stop running his negative ads.

Attack, attack, belittle, bemoan. Get on the team, Howard.

[CMT]

17. Well, since this is in response to weeks of attack

by Gephardt and Kerry I think they should get on the team too.

[chimpymustgo]

18. Please don't revise history. Dean came out swinging last January.

He got on the map with his relentless attacks on Kerry. Then he began attacking and insulting and lying about Edwards, Graham, Lieberman. The media LOVED it. And suddenly Howard Dean was getting attention.

Dean is now running negative ads.

And the Big Dog is smacking him for his behavior.

[dajabr]

22. Dean, Dean, Dean, Dean...

Started it! Nah, Nah!

Oh, and Big Dog did no smacking of Dean...It's been debunked (see post 16)

[arcos]

38. Clinton is talking about ALL of them!

He was criticizing Dean... but he was also criticizing Lieberman and those who say Dean is too liberal. It was not only against Dean.

[Cynica]

40. Clinton As Elder Statesman

I believe Bill Clinton is simply using his good offices to warn all the Democratic candidates to use good sense in their remarks about each other. Surely infighting is folly in view of the great stakes looming in 2004. All of us should unite in the common purpose: to end George W. Bush's usurpation of the presidency and to restart this depressed land back on the road to its own nation-building. I don't want any candidate to savage another one,

[Andromeda]

43. Thanks for the translation, papau.

A few individuals here on DU are given to posting distortions about everything Dean says or does. While Clinton did not specifically mention Dean's name, some reactionaries were quick to assume that it was Dean that he had in mind when he made those comments.

There's more than enough criticism ruminating back and forth from all the candidates and it's hardly anything new.

It's just constructive criticism, nothing more and nothing less---applicable to everybody.

[mbali]

9. Go, Big Dog! Go, Big Dog! Go, Big Dog! n/t

[E_Zapata]

11. I only wish Dean were an "anti-war liberal"

That would be cream in my coffee!

[Larkspur]

15. This Democrat admonishes Clinton

In the 8 years you were in office, the Democratic Party bled members. You didn't do anything to get people excited about being a Democrat and to join the Democratic Party.

Now that Gov. Howard Dean, M.D. has excited the Democratic base to believe in its principles again, you, ex-philanderer-in-chief, have the gall to chastise the leading Democratic Presidential contender, who literally pulled himself up with OUR help, not yours, from obscurity to frontrunner?

The only think I have left to say, Bill, is remember California 2003? Your game plan for Davis FAILED! Bush beat you because Davis didn't have a political base and the Repukes exploited it mercilessly.

[Name removed]

26. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Larkspur]

30. Clinton was a philanderer

Though not as much of a serial one as the Repukes who accused him.

I respect him as a politician and voted for him for Prez twice, and think that he is a very intelligent person, but I never swooned over him him, like other Democrats did. Clinton never got people excited about joining the Democratic Party, not the way Dean is getting people excited about taking back their party and country. Of course, times are different now, than they were in 1992.

Clinton's escapades with Monica made it easy for his political opponents to not only attack him but smear all Dems associated with him and it revved up a Reichwing machine that is to this day destroying our country.

If Clinton had come out and said that he had an affair and wanted privacy to rebuild his trust with his wife and child, then I'd have great respect for him. In Monica's case, he took the low road and completely underestimated his opponents drive to regain power.

[surfermaw]

32. I'M WITH YOU E _ ZAPATA

[blm]

36. Nailed it!

.

[kwolf68]

42. Great post

Love to see my beliefs always proven.

[dajabr]

16. How The Washington Times twisted the Prospect's interview with Bill Clinto

TAP sets the record straight. Can we please stop posting "news" from right-wing sources to attack our own candidates? Please?

Virtually any day of the week, you can pick up The Washington Times and count on its writers to reflect a view of reality not far removed from that of the Republican National Committee. Everyone understands they do that; it's their printing press and it's their right. What I didn't think they also did, however, at least until I picked up today's edition, was willfully misread documents.

For the November issue of this magazine, I interviewed Bill Clinton. The subjects of the interview were how the Democrats can win in 2004, how they can counter Republican arguments and where George W. Bush is vulnerable.

The Washington Times' Donald Lambro wrote a news article about the interview in today's paper. Hey, I'm not complaining; he picked up the story, and he spelled the magazine's name right. But reading his account, I'm left wondering whether someone doctored his copy of the magazine.

More: http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/10/tomasky-m-10-23.html

[Rowdyboy]

23. Thanks for setting the record straight...

The Moonie Times article is a total distortion of the original interview and is so twisted the interviewer found it difficult to recognize.

Why do we get our knickers in a knot over The Washington Times or the New York Post? Neither paper deserves our notice.

[Toucano]

19. Well said.

All the candidates should heed the advice of a winner.

This isn't any different than a lot of people here have said regarding the whole "pin the tail on the Republican poser" game.

It's divisive, stupid and self-perpetuating. Isn't that what makes Gephardt and Kerry attack Dean by "siding" with Gingrich?

[dajabr]

21. Uh...see post 16

You're agreeing with a false story...

[Toucano]

24. No, I'm agreeing with what Clinton said.

I don't agree with how it was twisted to appear to be an indictment against Dean in particular, but from your link:

"The Times picked up this quote: "But I don't believe that either side should be saying, 'I'm a real Democrat and the other one's not,' or, 'I'm a winning Democrat and the other one's not.'" The Times account suggested that this was an implicit slam of Howard Dean.

Here's the whole context: I asked Clinton about the schism within the Democratic Party. I said to him that sometimes the arguments between the liberals and the centrists had taken on a tone of not mere disagreement but of mockery. "And this has happened," I said, "more from the centrists toward the liberals than the other way around," at which point he cut me off and said, "Yeah, and I think it's a big mistake."

So Clinton did admonish that tactic.

It was wrong for me to get into the "who started it" argument because that serves no purpose. The strategy is bad, Big Dog said so, and I am agreeing with him.

[chimpymustgo]

28. Clinton's quote stands.

Clinton:
"But I don't believe that either side should be saying, 'I'm a real Democrat and the other one's not,' or, 'I'm a winning Democrat and the other one's not."

Now the Times, the interviewer - anybody - can try to spin that anyway they want, but the quote is straightforward: Clinton is saying Dean - and some of the others should not be making such divisive statements.

[killbotfactory]

20. Nice spin by the moonie times.

And you as well.

Clinton didn't pick out any democrat, and his criticism would apply to people calling Dean too liberal (cough Lieberman cough) to win, or Gephardt saying Dean sides with Ginrich, etc...

[E_Zapata]

27. Okay, then what was Clinton even talking about it for?

If not to make a direct reference to dem candidates who attack dem candidates???? and calling other dems NOT dems?

Was Clinton just mumbling to himself for no reason at all? and a reporter picked it up?

????????????

[killbotfactory]

29. From the guy who interviewed Clinton.

Can you honestly say the times didn't distort what Clinton said?

Here's the whole context: I asked Clinton about the schism within the Democratic Party. I said to him that sometimes the arguments between the liberals and the centrists had taken on a tone of not mere disagreement but of mockery. "And this has happened," I said, "more from the centrists toward the liberals than the other way around," at which point he cut me off and said, "Yeah, and I think it's a big mistake."

Now how is that an implicit criticism of Dean? An agreement that the centrists have sometimes gone overboard in criticisms of liberals is pretty obviously an implicit criticism of Joe Lieberman and Al From, the head of the Democratic Leadership Council (DLC). If Clinton hadn't cut me off, I would have mentioned the DLC's attack on Iowa delegates awhile back, or the letter the DLC wrote to the attendees of a conference sponsored by the Campaign for America's Future, the DLC's liberal counterpart, with its silly joke about how they should all enjoy their Ben & Jerry's ice cream. I didn't get to say those things, but Bill Clinton is no dummy; he knew exactly what I was talking about, and exactly what he was saying.

http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/10/tomasky-m-10-23.html

[Cynica]

41. Clinton as Mentor

Clinton, I believe, was using his unique position as party elder to remind all Democratic candidates that their--our--business is the unseating of George Bush rather than the shredding of other Democrats.
At this stage in the campaign, no candidate can offer a really definitive statement about his intentions -- the party platform will make that statement, largely to the liking of the successful candidate, when the time comes.

[pruner]

25. since we're now quoting right-wing sources…

here's some NewsMax spin on Dean's quote in reference to Hillary. They just can't seem to accept the fact that she's not running… and apparently Tweety can't either.

In another Clinton promise that could blow up in his face, Dean told Rather that Mrs. Clinton had "basically" told him she wouldn't enter the 2004 presidential race.

The Vermont Democrat did not offer a verbatim quote from Sen. Clinton, but some saw his use of the term "basically" as leaving plenty of wiggle room.

"There's a tricky word, 'basically,'" noted MSNBC's "Hardball" host Chris Matthews, who wondered aloud last night if Mrs. Clinton could be taken at her word.

http://www.newsmax.com/archives/ic/2003/10/23/110705.shtml

[DrFunkenstein]

31. Although VERY Liberal, Kerry Unites The Party

The Dean people act like a break away group, and I'm sure if Dean did break away his followers would follow. Dean not only alienates conservative leaning independents, he alienates virtually everyone in his Party EXCEPT his supporters.

Kerry on the other hand, makes a concentrated effort to pull in all Democrats, even the ones he disagrees with philosophically. Dean can't even get along with the people that agree with him.

[gully]

33. or, 'I'm a winning Democrat and the other one's not,' " he said

hmmm, who's the 'winning' Democrat statement directed to?

Here is the actual title of the story.
"Clinton warns candidates against 'too liberal' stance."
I like how the Washington Times puts words into Clinton's mouth.

"Mr. Clinton also admonished Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean, without specifically naming him...."

I think I'll be cautious about coming to the same conclusion the author did.

Especially given the fact that Dean is not the only candidate to dish.

[kang]

34. While I don't doubt that Clinton said that

we should all be careful about anything "reported" by the Washington Times. They're owned by Rev. Moon which is a ultra-conservative quasi-christian cult. He has strong ties to the Right. It's as "X-Files" like as it gets in this country.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

35. Washington Times.

:freak:

[gully]

37. Nope, he didn't...lookey here...

Found this in GD, enjoy!

How The Washington Times twisted the Prospect's interview with Bill Clinton

"For the November issue of this magazine, I interviewed Bill Clinton. The subjects of the interview were how the Democrats can win in 2004, how they can counter Republican arguments and where George W. Bush is vulnerable.

The Washington Times' Donald Lambro wrote a news article about the interview in today's paper. Hey, I'm not complaining; he picked up the story, and he spelled the magazine's name right. But reading his account, I'm left wondering whether someone doctored his copy of the magazine.

His lead reads, "Former President Bill Clinton says that the Democratic presidential candidates cannot win the White House if voters think they are too far to the left, according to an interview published this week."

Uh, as the guy who was in the room, I'm here to tell you: That is not what Clinton said..."

Read on...

http://www.prospect.org/webfeatures/2003/10/tomasky-m-10-23.html

[demrebel]

44. Dean needs to take on the Clinton's

Dean needs to take them on and tell them one, Bill is retired, go away and Hillary to be quiet and do something. It is amazing that no one I talk to can tell me anything she has ever done. Nothing but failures all her life.

Dean needs to stand up to them.

We need more people running for office that are not rich lawyers. We match our rich lawyers against their rich lawyers.