Geothermal Future

[groovedaddy]

Editorial

To most people the word “geothermal” means hot springs and geysers — like parts of Iceland or Yellowstone National Park where water is heated by the presence of magma near the surface of the earth. But the earth’s heat lies below everywhere, and it offers a virtually untapped energy reserve of enormous potential with a very short list of drawbacks.

In 2006, a panel led by the Massachusetts Institute of Technology surveyed the prospects for electricity production from enhanced geothermal systems. Its conclusions were conservative but very optimistic. The panel suggested that with modest federal support, geothermal power could play a critical role in America’s energy future, adding substantially to the nation’s store of renewable energy and more than making up for coal-burning power plants that would have to be retired.

Following up on the M.I.T. study and a separate survey of its own, the Bureau of Land Management issued a decision last month that would open up as many as 190 million acres to leases for geothermal exploration and development. These lands are mostly in the West, where hot rock lies closer to the surface than it generally does in the East.

There is a lot of research yet to be done about geothermal sources, new techniques for deep drilling and energy generation at the surface. But the basics are clear enough. Water is injected deep into the earth where it absorbs heat from the surrounding rock. As the fluid returns to the surface, that heat is used to generate electricity. The fluid is then re-injected. The system forms a closed loop. It creates almost no emissions and is entirely renewable. It also occupies a smaller surface area than either solar or wind power.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/14/opinion/14wed2.html?th&emc=th

[madokie]

1. There is nothing I can see that would be anything other than good

Why aren't we using more and more of this? I know that in some places they have to drill some really deep wells but we have to remember that well only has to be drilled once. Even if it took a year or more to sink the hole we'd still be far ahead. In the interim where its not so deep to make it dificult to get to we need to start building enough of the geo-thermol plants to supply all the electrical power in the area where its feasible to transport it to. That way we could retire some of the nasty assed coal plants, some of the older nuclear ones too maybe. We should set a goal to get all our electrical energy from this one source, say in 2020 or 2030 but sometime soon not later. We can do better

[NNadir]

2. There is nothing you can see?

Well, for once, I have to concede you're right about something, just like a stopped clock is right twice a day.

To see something you would have had to have had looked, but "looking" at this sort of thing aneducation, plus critical thinking skills.

If your skills consist entirely, on the other hand, of glib handwaving and wishful thinking, it is best to stick to worshipping solar pool lights on the marble perimeter.

The first geothermal electric plant in the world was commissioned in Italy about 1913.

Plants at the Geysers have operated in California for many decades, although they are declining, um, because its energy has been consumed.

What in your imagination has prevented all this experience from doing that about which you hand wave after all of this experience?

You don't know?

Why am I not surprised?

In a way, it is hard to imagine that those responsible for all the senile opposition to the world's largest, by far, source of climate change gas free energy - which happily has lower carbon dioxide emissions than geothermal energy - which in any case, after almost a century of talk still doesn't produce 1 exajoule out of the 500 exajoules of energy used by humanity.

If in fact, one cited references rather than daydreams, one could find out the following information:

On the other hand, the geothermal electricity environmental impacts are not a negligible matter. The range in CO2 emissions from hightemperature geothermal fields used for electricity production in the world is <2> 3–380 g/kWh, whereas the CO2 emissions are 453 g/kWh for natural gas, 906 g/kWh for oil and 1042 g/kWh for coal.

or

Some 80 countries have identified geothermal resources, and about 50 have quantifiable geothermal utilization at present <2>. Electricity is produced from geothermal energies in 24 countries, spread all over the world, with a capacity of 8.4GW <6> and direct applications is recorded in 35 countries (34TWh/a). In the year of 1999 the top ten
producing countries, in MWe, were: USA (2228), Philippines (1909), Italy (785), Mexico (755), Indonesia (590), Japan (547), New Zealand (437), Iceland (170), El Salvador (161), and Costa Rica (143) <6,7,>. United States is still the leading producing country while there was an
“entry” of Germany, Austria and Papua New Guinea, in the field of geothermal Electricity .

ieeexplore.ieee.org/iel5/4272346/4272347/04272419.pdf


Any concept of scale?

No?

Why am I not suprised?

Do you know how tiny 2228 MWe is?

Get off your ass and drive down to the Redondo Beach AES dangerous natural gas fueled power plant!

It is rated at 1,310 MWe, or about half the capacity of all the Geothermal power plants in the entire United States.

The Polk coal fired power plant in Florida produces more energy than all of the geothermal power plants than the entire the United States, which has been producing geothermal electricity for decades

This is not to say that the Polk coal fired power plant is acceptable - not to me at least - but I think it is morally disgusting to pretend that geothermal energy will shut it in the life time of any one reading this post, from senile old bastards at the louging lazily by the solar pool light solar heated pool to serious teenagers who are terrified at their deliberately ravaged future.

[bananas]

3. Why is this asshole still allowed to post here?

He continually violates the DU rules about civility.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

3. Civility: Treat other members with respect. Do not post personal attacks against other members of this discussion forum.

4. Content: Do not post messages that are inflammatory, extreme, divisive, incoherent, or otherwise inappropriate. Do not engage in anti-social, disruptive, or trolling behavior. Do not post broad-brush, bigoted statements. The moderators and administrators work very hard to enforce some minimal standards regarding what content is appropriate. But please remember that this is a large and diverse community that includes a broad range of opinion. People who are easily offended, or who are not accustomed to having their opinions (including deeply personal convictions) challenged may not feel entirely comfortable here. A thick skin is necessary to participate on this or any other discussion forum.

[Strelnikov_]

4. Beats me. A very troubled individual.

Or a shill. Your choice.

[bananas]

5. This is a good example of how full of shit NNadir is

He just posted, "To see something you would have had to have had looked, but "looking" at this sort of thing aneducation, plus critical thinking skills."

NNadir has admitted that his own education is extremely sparse in these matters.

edit to add: I would post links, but apparently it's a violation of DU rules to expose NNadir's lack of education.

[Nederland]

6. What about small scale implementations?

I have a geothermal system that heats and cools my home and it works quite well...

[Susan Kraemer]

8. They are usually called ground heat exchange, right?

They are terrific. I wish I had thought of that when we built 15 years ago.

[Nederland]

9. Not from my research

The trades call them geothermal systems, even though ground heat exchange is more accurate. Regardless, if you think about it, it's really solar power. Clean, cheap, and totally renewable.

[Susan Kraemer]

7. Why? Well we were under Bush for the last 8 years, for starters

And the Bush WhiteHouse would not even list Geothermal on its DOE energy page as a source of energy for any funding at all. It was deliberately hidden. Only when Google finally went out and invested $11 million in EGS this summer(the new deep geothermal - that will work everywhere: not just in hotspots like California's geysers) did the DOE even acknowledge its existence.

So unlike lucky solar and wind that did eke out a few measly millions in "research" investment (along with the billions in fossil subsides), geo got no respect.