9/11 report advises U.S. spy chiefs to learn from Israel

[Herschel]

http://www.israel21c.org/bin/en.jsp?enPage=BlankPage&enDisplay=view&enDispWhat=Zone&enDispWho=InThePress&enZone=InThePress&Date=7/27/03%208:00%20PM

" American intelligence services should take a leaf out of Israel's book and cooperate with its security services to learn how to acquire intelligence from human sources, says the report from the U.S. congressional inquiry into the events of September 11, 2001, Ha'aretz reported. In its recommendations the report calls for a new agency that "should endeavor to learn from both the successes and failures" of Israel's "humint" (human intelligence) strategy. "Their aggressive tactics and inventive use of non-official covers may serve as a useful guide for this new agency," the report continues. "The Israelis have had notable successes in penetrating terrorist organizations and we should learn from their efforts." The congressional panel of inquiry advises that this new agency, if established, "may also want to consider some level of partnership with the Israeli humint services, given the amount of overlap in the terrorism and proliferation threats to both our national interests." "

This is not exactly Israeli-Palestinian. However, some here have questioned America's partnership with Israel and what we benefit. This and other articles at the site will help educate you.

[mmm]

1. We benefit nothing from this 'partnership' with Israel

Absolutely zero. Dennis Kucinich would change that in
a New York Second.
Speaking of Israel's Intelligence -- why did they
not warn the US of 9/11. I believe they knew (and time will prove it).

Please do not confuse education with propaganda. They are vastly different concepts.

[Darranar]

4. They did.

Bush ignored them, along with another host of warnings.

[teryang]

2. What overlap?

There is an unwarranted assumption that terrorist threats to Israel are a threat to American national interests.

[Darranar]

21. Often they are...

since extremist Muslims often hate both the US AND Israel.

[newyorican]

3. Guess we can expect

Sbarros, Carvels and Dunkin Donuts to start blowing up soon, thanks for the "help". :eyes:

[LeftistGorilla]

5. they should learn from Israel....

I mean....look at how well things have been going for Israel.... :eyes:

[Darranar]

26. According to some reports...

a considerable percent of terrorist attacks have been prevented by the Israeli Mossad, their intelligence agency.. It isn't the Mossad's fault that Israel is in this mess. Blaming it on them isnt fair.

[Herschel]

6. Did any of you read?

You see at this site Israeli achievement and benefit for America and the world. Do not blame little Israel for the 911 tragedy. Blame the murderers that executed it, perhaps? Israel stands ready to help America prevent another 911 yet you criticize her and defend those that would dance in the streets to celebrate it. Oh, my.

[newyorican]

9. Just *who* is going to be OUR sugar-daddy?

Oh my.

[Forkboy]

12. "oh,my"

are you channeling Dick Enberg or something?

[Herschel]

16. Listen you two

Your mocking aside, did you read the article? Can you see the contributions of Israel? I think you know the answer.

[newyorican]

22. "Listen you"

If the US is going to follow in the footsteps of Israel, we will need a sugar-daddy to pay the bills. Who will that be? It is a simple question, I think. Contrary to your opinion, I don't feel you know the answer.

[Herschel]

30. Imitation is flattery, I suppose

There is no sugar-daddy as you say, for America. Her investment in Israel is a relatively small and wise one.

[Name removed]

23. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Darranar]

24. Please...

Address Herschel's points, not his style of writing.

[newyorican]

25. One of his *points* is

the "mocking". This from someone prefaces a few too many comments with "Listen you" and ends a few too many comments with "Oh my."

The irony contained therein should be self-revealing.

[Darranar]

27. PLEASE!

Talk about the subject of Israeli/Palestinian affairs, please, and not about a particular person's style.

[newyorican]

28. Since you say please...ok.

I did address the article posted, 2 times and on 2 points.

Post #3 is a sarcastic assesment of the success of Israeli intel to date.

Post #9 & #22 ask a question that nobody has ventured forward to answer. "Who is going to be our sugar-daddy?"

[Darranar]

29. Don't ask me...

Ask Bush. He already is locking the US in a horrible budget problem.

[Herschel]

31. No, I do not mock you

Oh my is when I feel exasperated. No mocking is meant. Please address points raised other than my style.

[Andromeda]

34. Stop making fun of Herschel.

You can disagree with his points but don't make fun of the way he expresses himself. That is juvenile behavior.

[Darranar]

35. Agreed...

Mocking is dodging.

[newyorican]

37. Not to carp on this, but...

When I do ask a direct question, your response is "Don't ask me."

Sorry in advance if this post is perceived as *mocking*.

[mike_c]

7. sorry, I couldn't disagree more....

The U.S. should sever all economic, military, and political ties with Israel until it ceases it's oppression of the Palestinians and COMPLIES with the U.N. resolutions it has been thumbing it's nose at since 1948. We should learn from the Israeli's? Well, I suppose..., we should learn how NOT to conduct a foreign policy, and how NOT to institutionalize denial of human rights based on race and ethnicity.

[bemildred]

8. Israeli intelligence is an oxymoron.

Look at the mess they are in and tell me I should
do likewise. Little pink pigs will fly out my butt
singing kumbyah first.

[Darranar]

10. The Mossad is actually rather effective...

certainly more than the CIA (not that that's saying much :))
It seems likely that they knew a bit about 9/11 and warned the Bush Administration.

[bemildred]

11. That is an opinion, and depends on what your goals are.

They are effective in their little corner of the World, but
have looked fairly clumsy elsewhere, at times. This is not to
deny they have some notable successes to their credit. They are
certainly more competent than the CIA, but as you note that is
not saying much, and a good deal of their reputation appears to
me to be propaganda, i.e. intended to instill fear, and related to
black operations rather than intelligence gathering. Just as an
example, the Egyptians snookered them clean at the start of their
losing war in the Sinai.

[Darranar]

13. I basically agree...

I assume you are refering to the Yom Kippur War in 1973. The Israelis recieved warnings, but like the US before 9/11, they ignored them, and paid the consequences.

[bemildred]

14. Sooner or later

ill-founded arrogance
will bite you in the butt.

[Darranar]

15. Exactly...

which is what the israelis and Americans learned in 1973 and 2001, respectively, to their sadness.

[Herschel]

17. I disagree, my friend

The fault for those events lies with the killers themselves, no one else. To assign it to arrogance is incorrect.

[Darranar]

18. Of course...

The reponsibility for these horrible attacks lies with those who committed them. However, PERMITTING those attacks to happen is simply inexcusable.

I do not believe that Bush caused September 11th. I DO believe, however, that the government was lax on security and could have prevented the attacks had they been less so. that is partially due to arrogance.

The Israeli government similarly was lax on security during the 1973 war. They could have prevented the attack being a surprise. They didn't. That, too, was in part because of arrogance.

Do not mistake my opinion here. THOSE ATTACKS WERE WRONG. THAT THEY COULD HAVE BEEN PREVENTED DOES NOT JUSTIFY THEM. THE KILLERS ARE STILL GUILTY OF MASS MURDER.

[Herschel]

19. I now understand

The arrogance you talk about is overconfidence in intellegence. That may indeed have been a problem.

[Darranar]

20. Exactly

Though there was also a degree of overconfidence in Israeli military superiority. The 1973 war dismissed those beliefs.

[Cassandra]

32. Pigs singing kumbaya...

wouldn't be kosher. ;-)

BTW, at least Israeli intelligence has people who speak Arabic.

[bemildred]

33. Hey Cassandra.

:hi:

I thought of that, but I knew people would understand.
The image just wouldn't work with goats.

You are correct about the Arabic, and most likely Farsi and
a number of other relevant languages. OTOH we take great
hi-res pictures of sand and things ...

[Cassandra]

36. Goats, ouch! Those horns.

I've always thought that the CIA envy Mossad because they seem to have so much more leeway in operations, particularly assasinations (they are certainly better at it). I think it's that Bond image thing.