BBC: The 9/11 conspiracy movement

[133724]

Accusations that the American Government was complicit in the 9/11 attacks are becoming increasingly bitter and widespread.

9/11 was the first global event in the age of the internet. And now the world wide web is being used as a platform for a wide range of conspiracy theories - more than 50 at the last count - which allege that the US government was somehow involved in the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon.

<snip>

"The very idea," says Fetzer, "that 19 Islamic fundamentalists could have hijacked these four commercial airliners, outfoxed the most sophisticated air defence system in the world, under control of a man in a cave in Afghanistan is only the most outrageous of the conspiracy theories."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/programmes/conspiracy_files/6354679.stm

Here we go....

On Edit: Mods... This is in reference to a film to be shown this weekend on BBC2

[tridim]

1. Here we go indeed.. Finally.

I don't even care if we're proved incorrect, I just want answers and full disclosure.

[wildbilln864]

3. Me too damnit!

Call me whatever! Our lives have all been changed because of it. We deserve the truth!

[itsmesgd]

2. this is a hit piece against anyone who has been seeking the truth

This attempts to make a mockery of anyone who questions the official government line.

(see ya in the 9/11 forum)

[Henny Penny]

4. lol. Someone should run a book on how long a thread gets....

5 mins, 10 mins, 33mins... place yer bets now.... before its too late... :-)

[orleans]

14. so far it's been nearly nine hours and we're still here. n/t

[Henny Penny]

21. You're right!!!

I was sure the "911" in the thread title would speed its demise.... but perhaps the "BBC" bit acts as an effective counterbalance...

[OmmmSweetOmmm]

8. That's what I've heard about it. Look for the creator of the Lone Gunman series trying to

rationalize the 9/11 Truth Movement's inability to accept that sometimes, only a handful of people can cause such chaos without it being a conspiracy.

Meanwhile, the pilot of the Lone Gunman had a jet, hijacked by Arabs working for our government, crashing into the World Trade Center. This was aired I believe in April 2001. I have heard interviews with one of the stars of the Lone Gunman, talking about how very often the CIA was on the set of the show.

[Beam Me Up]

31. It's always about the messenger NEVER ABOUT THE MESSAGE

They can't argue against facts so they 'psychologize' the movement.

Remember how "alienated" all the young people used to be? You know, the ones that cared enough to try and CHANGE THE ESTABLISHED SYSTEMS OF POWER?

[cyberpj]

32. How do you know that. I want to recommend it to friends there. Should I? nt

[BuyingThyme]

41. The stuff about a missile hitting the Pentagon is clearly

being perpetuated by the government.

There have been at least two occasions where they (the G) promoted the release of "new" photos of the plane impacting, and, of course, when the photos finally came, there was no plane to be seen.

This enables the government to promote a conspiracy theory which is ridiculous to the point where it makes open-minded people more likely to turn away from all other theories and realities.

People are being trained to think of the missile/Pentagon theory whenever the question of government involvement/complicity comes up.

But, the thing we have to ask, is why would the government pull the nonsense with the Pentagon photos?

Hmm...

[133724]

5. Broadcast info...

The Conspiracy Files: 9/11 will be broadcast on Sunday, 18 February 2007 at 2100 GMT on BBC Two.

Anyone know of any feeds????

[frylock]

7. i'm sure it will be available for download via bittorrent..

just check the conspiracycentral.net tracker a day or so after it airs.

[pretzel4gore]

6. who cares now?

911 happened 6 years ago. there isn't even going to be an impeachmwent of bush for lying us into iraq. So why blah blah about 911, conspiracy theory or no? The men who staged the 911 catastrophe will get away with it, and really, what does it matter now?
911 was easy. Certainly it wouldn't have taken that much to carry off this part of the coup (the coup on dec. 12/00) as they controlled every aspect of the event. The plotters controlled the air defenses (see northernvigilance/guardian et al) they controlled the 4 jets (global hawk technology) and mostly they controlled the news media which followed the leaders just like tots in a playground. The controlled the focus of news (how many here heard about 'northern vigilance' unttil much later?) and they were able to slip by any crazy questions (barb olsen's ph call etc) with ease... If israel, or if russia, or iraq, or n korea pulled off 911, that would be...well incredible cuz ...the newsmedia might have suggested that, for one thing, the wtc buildings look like they were professionally demolished, into their own foundations, or 'where the hell is the airforce?' (see payne stewart) such question would lead to others, such as coincidental air exercises taking place that just happened to neuter the nation's defenses just when 4 planes were being hijacked (same media also might suggest that the london bombing also look suspicious what with emerg exercises being held at the very same time in the very station which were bombed!)
lets credit osama and his killer rambo hjackers for 911, and concentrate on pinning bush on pigmedia and illegal war 650 thousand dead, on bush....

[133724]

9. I think there are a few 911 widows/widowers who would like to know...

[orleans]

13. i'd like to know. i think we all would. n/t

[pretzel4gore]

61. they died for the 'Spawn of Wimpy'

junyer's called the spawn of the 'wimp' (bush seenyor) by gopig insiders who like to play with idea oldbush wasn't much of a killer, in xcomparison with son dubia...(lol!)
All the people who died, or were jailed, or put up with 'security' hassles etc since Wimpy's spawn was seated in the WH, are just roadkill to the bush gang. We should get over it.
Scabs itch.... grow up

[Bluebear]

12. If a crime was committed, you don't care? The 3000 dead don't deserve justice?

[cui bono]

49. Plus the 3100+ sent to die in Iraq and all the dead Iraqis too.

9/11 was used as an excuse to go into Iraq, so it's very important to know the truth, especially now that there might be some similar shenanigans to get us into Iran.

[rman]

16. you got to be kidding

[pretzel4gore]

62. being provacative, sorta...

years ago, i saw news reports of US airforce bombing mountain ridges in afghanistan, and i recalled the Snow Leopards, who live in the mountains...peter mathiesen wrote a wonderful book about them ...so yes i'm kinda crazy, as i KNOW 911 was staged, for bush's benefit, and the cia created the taliban in 1st place...the 3000 wtc victims were those Snow Leopards...

[MadHound]

23. The truth is always important, no matter how long it takes to emerge

Perhaps getting to the bottom of 9/11 would help prevent such things from happening in the future. In addition, it is a national tragedy without closure. Making the truth known would help bring that closure about. This is why the JFK murder is still being persued nearly five decades later.

[CJCRANE]

24. The difference is

we have the internet in the 21st century. That's the one thing the PNAC people didn't account for back in the '90s when they hatched their plans. Information accumulates now and doesn't go down the memory whole.

[Bridget Burke]

40. Lots of people care. about 9/11.

Reformat your post & I might care enough to read it.

[maggiegault]

48. What Has Always Bothered Me About 9/11

1. I was a flight attendant on United Airlines back in the early early 90s. Why, when there were six Middle Eastern young men flying in FC on one-way tickets on the manifest, was this not even *mentioned* to the cockpit? That would be highly unusual even to the jaded eye, not the ME part, but the one-way ticket part. Bankers/businessmen would have roundtrip tickets most likely, and even then, why were they in FC (probably $10,000 tickets, perhaps more because of them being one-way?)? Why not business class? This isn't racism, it's the common sense and sixth sense you get from working the job. Also, that was a routine flight flown many times by many "regulars" on business. Why were those "regulars" not on the flight that day? Why didn't six young ME men in FC stand out even more glaringly?

2. Why were those flights so empty? Coast-to-coast early morning flights, especially out of NYC area airports, are always packed like sardines, with a "bumping" situation.

3. If the American Airlines jet slammed into the Pentagon, why are their no reports of seeing it nearly land on the ground and slide into it? That is the only possible scenario, given the way the wreckage looked. Why did they never find any luggage from the flight? Any wreckage? Black boxes? That was the jet that did the LEAST amount of damage.

4. Why will the United States government not admit that Flight 93 was shot down? How does that make the uprising on that plane any less heroic? Why, if it crashed in a very contained space, were safety cards, bits of luggage, and other such materials from the jet found over 200 miles away?

5. Why has no one given even a cursory glance to the PNAC manifesto, which basically spells out 9/11 with blueprints and how-to instructions?

[petgoat]

64. Good questions, Maggie, and welcome to DU!

:hi:

Will you be attending the Phoenix conference? $130 is a bit steep, I know; maybe you
can get a volunteer scholarship.

http://www.911accountability.org/

Why will the government not admit that93 was shot down? Because indications are that
the passengers had taken control of the cockpit and turned the plane back toward
Pittsburgh. Any possible shootdown was then either a terrible mistake, or it was
done because there was something about the plane or the alleged hijackers that the
authorities wanted to keep secret. Given the fact that the plane had ten more minutes
over Blair Witch country before it neared Washington and the FBI was listening in
on the phone calls that told of the passengers' rebellion, the itchy trigger finger
seems peculiar.

Another bizarre aspect of the flight 93 story is that the same C-130H that allegedly
witnessed flight 77 flying into the Pentagon was 14 miles away from the 93 crash site
at the alleged crash time of 10:03. At the 10:06 crash time indicated by the seismographic
evidence the C-130H would have been right on the scene.

[Festivito]

10. Would they cover a conspiracy that fakes a conspiracy theory?

A good way to hide a real conspiracy is to create one or more outrageous conspiracy theories, then point to the outrageous theories in order to cast doubt on the real conspiracies by casting doubt on all conspiracy theories.

There'd be lots of money for it. Slick websites. Best selling books - bought be the case, not to be read. Pay a couple of guys to round robin on various websites whining how their idea is ignored, shunned and/or dungeoned. In the mean time Rush and Hannity point to the outrageousness to people who will never catch that there is a real conspiracy - the kind for which laws are written.

Funding a right-wing media is child's play to these guys.

Think they'll cover the real conspiracy of the fake conspiracy? Neither do I.

[mhatrw]

11. Yes, everyone who thinks we haven't been told the whole story about 9/11

is in a giant cult!

It simply makes us happy and content to believe that the real murderers behind the horror of 9/11 may still roam free with protection (or at least cover) from some powerful insider psychopaths within our own government!

Thanks BBC for making this all clear!

:sarcasm:

[EVDebs]

45. Anyone care to mention the Ptech coverup ?

Dollars of Terror by Rachel Ehrenfeld
http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/ReadArticle.asp?ID=17730

""Ptech is used primarily to develop enterprise blueprints at the highest level of US government and corporate infrastructure. These blueprints hold every important functional, operational, and technical detail of the enterprise. A secondary use of this powerful tool is to build other smart tools in a short period of time. Ptech’s clients in 2001 included the Department of Justice, the Department of Energy, Customs, Air Force, the White House, the FAA, IBM, Sysco, Aetna, and Motorola, to name just a few.""

Ptech, now GoAgile, stil has those contracts...espcially the FAA, AirForce, and WhiteHouse ones...

[petgoat]

65. A Ptech financier, Yassin al-Qadi, was the subject of the

terrorist financier investigation done by FBI agent Robert Wright.

Wright's investigation was effectively shut down in 1999. Wright has
written a book about his FBI experiences, but the FBI won't let him
publish it.

After 9/11, al-Qadi's assets were frozen because he was a “Specially
Designated Global Terrorist.”

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline&financing_of_al-qaeda:_a_more_detailed_look=bmiPtech

Ptech's software was installed in the White House, Treasury Department (Secret Service),
Air Force, FAA, CIA, FBI, both houses of Congress, Navy, Department of Energy, IRS,
Booz Allen Hamilton, IBM, Enron and more.

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/012705_ptech_pt2.shtml

[EVDebs]

66. And Ptech, now GoAgile, is apparently STILL under contract w/FAA, WH, AirForce nt

[CJCRANE]

15. Doesn't seem to mention "9/11: Press for Truth".

But at least it might get some of the 9/11 inconsistencies to a larger audience.

[petgoat]

18. 9/11: Press for Truth

Trailer here:

http://www.911pressfortruth.com /

The widows presented 300 questions to the 9/11 Commission.
200 of those questions were ignored. Only 27 were adequately
answered.

Here are the questions, and the widows' ratings of the responses:

http://www.justicefor911.org/Appendix4_FSCQuestionRatings_111904.php

Upcoming screenings in Chicago, Louisville, Phoenix, Tucson, and
Minneapolis: http://pressfortruth.bravenewtheaters.com/screenings

[CJCRANE]

20. Thanks.

I ended up buying the DVD, not to watch myself (seen it already online) but to lend to friends (I advise them to watch this instead of, or in addition to, "United 93" and "World Trade Center").

[jarnocan]

27. thanks I do worry of what is genuine being denigrated by too much...

stuff that seems way out... BUT my perspective has also changed with more information. WE have a right and need to know as much of the truth as possible. Most people have little clue about Iran Contra, Moon, PNAC, election fraud and so much more that is all realted to this ongoing tragedy.

[petgoat]

30. Press for Truth's research is bulletproof. It's all based on

mainstream news sources and done by Stanford graduate Paul Thompson.

Paul Thompson's "The Terror Timeline" was published by HarperCollins and
blurbed by Craig Unger ("House of Bush, House of Saud") and Peter Dale
Scott.

http://ec1.images-amazon.com/images/P/0060783389.01._BO2,204,203,200_PIsitb-dp-500-arrow,TopRight,45,-64_OU01_AA240_SH20_SCLZZZZZZZ_.jpg

http://www.amazon.com/Terror-Timeline-Comprehensive-Chronicle-11/dp/0060783389


The searchable online version here is a great resource:

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/timeline.jsp?timeline=complete_911_timeline

[bananarepublican]

17. The 'íntelligence community' gets at least $40B (who knows how much is in the black budget)...

... EVERY YEAR! How much more goes into 'defense' spending?

So, over the last ten years hundreds of billions (if not trillions) have been spent on 'protecting America'.

So, the defence and intellgence communities fuck up on 911... no-one is held accountable, the most incompetent get promoted, and the administration's solution is.... to spend more money.

Any program that supports the official 911 version of events is worth watching, but just for laughs.

[PhilipShore]

63. I agree...

I personally think the cause of 9/11 is the result of blowback, and we will never know the truth -- unless the CIA is closed down, and the ex-CIA spooks are dragged into court.

[Decruiter]

19. I only have one thing to say, WOOHOO!

:woohoo:

Very Proud member of the Grassy Knoll Society and DU TinFoilers. There is a DU TinFoil forum, isn't there? 9/11?

[Nevernever]

22. BAA....BAA, BAAA, BAAAAAA....

"The hungry Sheep look up, and are not fed,
But swoln with wind, and the rank mist they draw,
Rot inwardly, and foul contagion spread:"

Milton - "Lycidas"

[CJCRANE]

25. Have you read

"New Pearl Harbor" or seen "9/11: Press for Truth"?

[mikelewis]

28. Why would someone look for an alternate truth when Bush's truth is so much more palatable?

It's a lot easier just to accept the President's obfuscations of the events of 9/11 because discovering what really happened is difficult and may require some to form an opinion that might not be popular.

[wildbilln864]

26. kick!

for exposure!
Impeach,indict, and imprison the Bush/PNAC murderers! :wtf:

[Twist_U_Up]

29. This will be a 911 hit peice

The hit peice will focus on strawman theories say individuals interviewed for the upcoming show .They're going to try to mix in anti-Semitism.

[cyberpj]

33. How do you know that. I want to recommend it to friends there. Should I? nt

[Twist_U_Up]

36. read the comments for yourself

Many posters to the 9/11 Blogger site were skeptical of the show's balance and fear it could be one of the most sophisticated attacks on the 9/11 truth movement to date, using nebulous strawman tactics that elevate unproven theories about hologram planes, exotic weaponry and Jewish conspirators above hardcore evidence.

http://z10.invisionfree.com/Loose_Change_Forum/index.php?showtopic=3744
http://www.nineeleven.co.uk/board/viewtopic.php?t=7176

[cyberpj]

37. I'm sorry to hear that and hope they're wrong, of course. Guess I'll wait to recommend.

Thanks for sharing the info.

[Twist_U_Up]

55. If you would like an honest approach I would check out

Press for Truth
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6984011242196441931&q=911+press&hl=en
http://911pressfortruth.com/

The Story
“We felt the country was at risk from terrorists and from incompetence…and maybe worse.” —Lorie Van Auken, September 11th Widow

Following the attacks of September 11th, a small group of grieving families waged a tenacious battle against those who sought to bury the truth about the event—including, to their amazement, President Bush. In ‘9/11 PRESS FOR TRUTH’, six of them, including three of the famous “Jersey Girls”, tell for the first time the powerful story of how they took on the greatest powers in Washington—and won!—compelling an investigation, only to subsequently watch the 9/11 Commission fail in answering most of their questions.

Adapting Paul Thompson’s definitive Complete 9/11 Timeline (published by HarperCollins as ‘The Terror Timeline’), the filmmakers collaborate with documentary veterans Globalvision (‘WMD: Weapons of Mass Deception’, ‘Beyond JFK’) to stitch together rare overlooked news clips, buried stories, and government press conferences, revealing a pattern of official lies, deception and spin. As a result, a very different picture of 9/11 emerges, one that raises new and more pressing questions.

What actions were taken by top government officials who received dozens of specific warnings before the attack? Was Osama Bin Laden and his top al Qaeda leadership allowed to escape U.S. forces in Afghanistan? And what has been the reason for the deliberate obscuring of evidence for state sponsorship? Perhaps the most important one of all: Why, five years later, are so many of the families’ questions still unanswered?

[glitch]

42. Here's a bright side: after 6 years they still need to keep mounting sophisticated attacks

That's the problem with reality, it just doesn't spin away.

[The Lone Groover]

46. "They're going to try to mix in anti-Semitism."

Off course they are... the muddier the better.

They might mention UFO's as well.

The BBC should show "Press for Truth" and be doing real journalism, they should be asking how much did the US Government know beforehand and why they tried their best to obstruct the 9/11 Commission.

Instead they'll focus on the other stuff like lasers, no-planes blah-dee-blah.

Isn't it obvious what's going on?

[LSK]

34. asking questions does not equate to conspiracy theory

Yet so many want to label questioners as tinfoilers and group them all together.

Asking legit questions such as why doesnt the US Govt release video of a plane hitting the Pentagon or how did WTC7 come down without being hit does not mean that you are convinced about some evil plot.

They are simply questions.

[jaksavage]

35. My tin foil hat

Has been shaped into a crown that I wear at a jaunty angle

[petgoat]

50. I stick a feather in my tinfoil tricorn and call it macaroni. nt

[Lena inRI]

38. HERE WE GO. . HERE WE GO. . .HERE WE GO. . ..

what are you saying? Rolling your eyes? Mocking any of us WHO ALWAYS DARED to broach the possibility that the Bush Crime family sacrificed 3000 people to get their war on Iraq?

And who do you know so well among the mods to keep this post from going to the dismissive dungeon?

I resent this board and KOS and any of the left gatekeepers for not taking these questions seriously from the beginning. Now that Chomsky sides with the 9-11 wives, we can post openly about these questions on this board?

Exposing the truth about 9-11, the fundamental-mother-of-all-scandals, has to be aggressively pursued to release the grip of the Bush cabal. . . and this board and you are STILL MEEK AND CAUTIOUS about discussing these 9-11 questions?

Intellectual cowards.

:rant: :rant: :rant: :rant: :rant:

[Anarcho-Socialist]

47. Do you think Wes Clark agrees with you on that?

Probably not.

[petgoat]

51. Do you think Wes Clark would say so publically if he did? nt

[Anarcho-Socialist]

53. Yes n/t

[petgoat]

57. I hope you won't take offense if I say that's the nuttiest idea I've heard

since pods were just a gleam in Dave von Kleist's eye.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

58. Wes Clark

Former Supreme Allied Commander of NATO forces in Europe. If he suddenly came out believing in the 'inside job' theory then people would take notice.

Wes Clark doesn't mince his words and has never shied away from confrontation. I suspect that he takes a dim view of the 'inside job' silliness just like most people do.

[petgoat]

59. You're changing the issue. You say he's not a CT'er. My claim

was that if he were a CT'er, he wouldn't say so.

[Anarcho-Socialist]

60. and I assert that Wes Clark is honest with his positions

and if he was a CTer he would say so.

[earth mom]

39. Wearing the Tinfoil here too...

hope this isn't a smear piece...

:tinfoilhat:

[Bitwit1234]

43. I don't think the bush administration was directly responsible BUT

I think their responsiblity lies in the fact that they were so damn stupid in their comprehension of bin laden's threat they let it happen. If they had listened and read all the reports they might have prevented it. But again they were no only stupid but they had such a jealousy for President Clinton they would not act on any of his suggestions. Which leads me to say in a way hell yes they were responsible. Why do you think they started this smear campaign against President Clinton's administration. TO COVER UP THEIR INCOMPENTENT ACTIONS.

[mvd]

44. All I know is that the official story isn't true and that..

some group over here had to have helped in the action and cover up.

[Canuckistanian]

52. Whee! Off to the dungeon

That was a short, but exhilarating ride.

This should be an attraction at Six Flags...

[Morgana LaFey]

54. Isn't it a crying shame that 9-11 is censored like this?

SUCH a shame.

[BeFree]

56. Yeah but

If they let it roam on the front pages we'd talk about nothing else since the 9/11 is the biggest scam ever foisted upon the world. Followed closely by the election thefts of 2000 and 2004, and then the invasion of Iraq.

That and it does make it more comfortable to ponder the more extreme versions of what might have really happened. Let us just be thankful the admins allow the space for the conversation.

Methinks one day it will prove to be the undoing of bushco, though not everyone agrees, eh?