Were the Gay Marriage propositions a game?

[GliderGuider]

Speculation from another board that the Republicans may have supported or even engineered the placing of Gay Marriage propositions on the ballot in various states in order to energize their base. You come out to vote down gay marriage, and while you're there you vote for Bush.

Is there any vote analysis to support this? It seems like such a simple, but perfectly Machiavellian idea.

[davepc]

1. of course thats what they did.

The amendment would NEVER pass congress, but they let the states vote on it.

[JI7]

2. of course, that's well known. that's the reason they put it on the ballots

that's how bush got the ohio lead. and in florida same thing with the parental consent on abortion proposition on the ballots.

[jdj]

3. Absolutely.

what they did do, more than the ballot iniatives, is to beat the drum through the media. We saw alot more queers kissing on tv than we ever have, even with their shrieking about the FCC and indecency. I mean, if you think about it, how many years was Will & Grace on before they let Will kiss a man on TV? Then all of a sudden us dykes and queens are seen smooching on the tube every night?

And we have zero to nothing as far as this WAR our country is fighting, no pics, no pictures of coffins or funerals, and the woman who photographs the coffins immediately gets FIRED?

If the religious right were playing it straight from values, wouldn't these two be reversed, coverage wise?

I think the conspiracy is in the media coverage more than anything else.

The republican motto is, after all, "come into my parlor said the spider to the fly".

[newportdadde]

4. Yep they sure did and it was a great strategy for them.

This hit my home state Missouri back in the primaries and given the turnout then I knew what would happen if it hit other states during the general election. I didn't realize it was on in Ohio I had thought it was stopped there.

It was good strategy though, they could give to shit about gay marriage or abortion as long as it gets them reelected they will play the card.

[Jimmy D]

5. it is all a game

abortion noone is going to change not dems not republicans. gay marriage
will be civil unions , neither the dems or republicans are against it
the second amendent noone is against it. we get beat because we actualy
say we are fo things that are in no danger of being lost. loseing the 38 percent of the oter that vote only on these issues. women say they are
for choice but the dont vote olny on that issue but women and men who are pro life vote only onthat issue. we fight battles atat are not real
they fust cost us votes.which cost us tax dollars so the rich can
get a bigger piece of the pie. nothing going to change with abortion,
gay rights or with the gun issue. i not big on god but if you want to win elections in this country you better put him in your campaign litature. this is just the facts. i know you are going to flame me but i am probally the most liberal guy you will ever hear from in this country.but you have to get to one issue voter or you cant win.

[hatrack]

12. Exactly - all the moral issues are nothing more than electoral tire irons

They're just a set of tools with which to prod the mouth-breathers to the polls.

Thirty-odd years after Roe v. Wade, 8 years of Reagan, 8 of Bush & Chimpy, 10 years of Puke Control of the House, 2 of Puke Control of Congress, nothing has been done. They don't WANT to do anything about it.

It's much better to have an issue about which you can screech and fulminate and prod the sheep to vote every two years than it is to actually do something about abortion and lose your single most effective political weapon.

[AllyCat]

6. Yep. That's why it's a "wedge" issue. n/t

[theboss]

7. That's what a wedge issue is for

And they found the ultimate one.

No one is talking about the parental notification initiative in Florida either.

[Kolesar]

8. That is as it appeared to me ... eom

[Cattledog]

9. Absolutely true!

My inlaws are from small town Kentucky, not even a post office, they're old school Democrats who when the Gay marriage thing was all over the TV said that was all the community talked about. I didn't think about it then but this is why we lost. This might be controversial but the gay community overplayed their hand and made a terrible political move by pressing this issue before the election. If they would have waited until Nov 3rd we might not be having this discussion.

CD

[Brian_Expat]

11. You make it sound like some "gay committee" planned this. . .

. . . no, people stood up and demanded their rights -- and in some places, got them.

Life is far too short to demand repression of rights for tactical advancement.

[davepc]

13. and in winning that battle we lost the war.

Good luck getting the gay rights agenda very far past Bush's SCOTUS.

Personally, I think President Kerry's appointees would of been a little more sympathetic to the cause.

[lynintenn]

15. Bush carried 20% of the gay vote

[jimbot]

10. Morality needs to be redefined

I wish I could start a topic on this but they increased the post count to 250...I'm not a frequent enough contributer so it will be awhile.
Riddle me this Batman:
What is moral about giving a tax cut to the rich and making subsequent cuts in social services to the poor?
What is moral about "preemptively" attacking another country and causing loss of life?
What is moral about polluting the environment?

We clearly have our moral issues but have failed to define them as moral. The right wing and the media have successfully defined morality in terms of heterosexualism (if that is a word), church worship, and abortion.

I fail to understand why church leaders fail to condemn politicians for their lack of action against poverty, starting of wars, and failing to be good stewards of the earth.

I hate to say it, but I don't think we will be able to effectively alter the argument until Roe v. Wade is overturned.

--JT

[lynintenn]

14. it is what won the election

moral issues placed on the ballot with Bush>winning combination