Hey guys, HAVE SOME CHEESE with your WHINE!

[LynnTheDem]

The far rightwingnuttery in America IS NOT the majority. It never has been.

Apathy is, however. Even 3rd world nations routinely turn out 80%+ voters.

bush won by A VERY VERY VERY SLIM MARGIN.

6 months ago NO ONE but NO ONE thought ANYONE would beat bush.

And yet we came DAMN CLOSE. AMAZINGLY damn close. In the middle of 2 failing wars.

bush got the LOWEST margin of ANY WAR PRESIDENT IN US HISTORY for crying out loud!!!

KNOCK OFF THE POOR WITTLE US bullshit already, GEEEEEEZ!!!

WE DONE GOOD. DAMN GOOD. INCREDIBLY FUCKING GREAT!!!

When NO ONE thought ANYONE could beat bush; we are THE GREATEST COME-BACK KIDS EVER!

Now PLEASE!!! Stop WALLOWING in the PITYPOND!!! Ta. :)

[tavalon]

1. I agree with you

and yet, this is part of the grief process. I just hope that people don't get stuck here.

After I get my butt off of this chair and get away from the computer, I need to go pick up the Kerry/Edwards posters that I tore into a hundred little pieces and threw all over my kitchen - also part of the grieving process.

Two days ago, I said I was leaving this worthless, piece of crap, country. Rage born out of grief. I'm not leaving, just processing.

They are processing. Hopefully, few of them will get mired in this stage.

[davepc]

2. Truth is Bush was the most beatable candidate since Herbet Hoover

and we WHIFFED on this one, big time. It shouldn't have even been close.

This party is out of touch with too many parts of it that used to be our bread and butter. Rural farmers, urban poor, union guys, catholics.

Shouldn't of even been close. Without our GOTV effort it would of been even worse.

We have real problems here, and we need to do a serious self examination if we're going to fix them. If we don't fix them we're going to go the way of the Whigs in the 1850's.

[LynnTheDem]

4. You are absolutely 100% wrong.

Or was the INCREDIBLE HUGE MASSIVE voter turnout just a fluke?

Sorry guy but yer wrong wrong wrong.

[davepc]

5. No it wasn't a fluke

but it was out BEST shot. And it fell woefully short. They're LAUGHING at us. "Bring it on"

I don't see a silver lining in raising the most massive campaign in recent history to beat the weakest sitting president in a century and FAILING.

Sorry I don't, I see it as a sign of lots of rot and decay in our party.

[LynnTheDem]

10. Oh bullshit.

GROW UP already. "They're laughing at us"

PULLEEEEESE!!!

They beat us by TWO FUCKING PERCENTAGE POUNTS.

An INCUMBANT WAR PRESIDENT.

TWO FUCKING PERCENTAGE POINTS.

It most certainly was not our best effort; we've done all we did over the past 24 months.

GET OVER your goddamn SUPERIORITY COMPLEX. It took the rethugs TWENTY GODDAMN YEARS. And yet you guys think we can do better in TWO YEARS???

It will take us FORTY bloody years if you let the world see you lying around moaning and whining. NOW IS THE ONLY TIME WE HAVE to FIGHT the "mythical president" bullshit spin on bush. Andif we fail to fight that myth, THAT will AUTOMATICALLY mean a rethug prez for the next 20 years.

BUSH WON BY ONE OF THE SMALLEST MARGINS IN HISTORY and BLOODY HELL YES that's bloody IMPORTANT. REDUCE him and his cartel and his little win to what it really in fact is; A VERY SLIM TINY LITTLE MARGIN.

[tavalon]

13. This is an extremely good point

though actually the rethugs have been working on this for more like 40 years and look what we did in two years. If we can get everyone to stay together and not fragment into millions of angry single people, we can blast these nasty little creatures away in far less than 40 years. But even if it takes those 40 years, I'm in. The fascists aren't going to get rid of me that easily.

[HughBeaumont]

28. Union guys?

So I was just imagining things seeing Teamsters in yellow shirts in the grandstands of every major Kerry rally and on stage praising his pro-worker policies? I was just imagining the AFL/CIO endorsement?

Sheesh. Uniting and trying to reason with people who think you're the problem to begin with is stupid. Trust me on that one.

[Flammable Materials]

3. Close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades.

In our system, it doesn't matter if you win by a slim margin or a landslide. When you win, you win. When you lose, you lose.

Call me a whiner if you like. I prefer to call myself a realist. "We almost won!" isn't going to get me through what will be looked back upon as some of the darkest years in American history. Hell, I'd accept defeat with a smile if my own candidate had bothered to fight like he promised he would. I was so full of useful angry energy on Wednesday. I felt like I was willing and able to do whatever was necessary. Then when it was announced that Kerry was conceding before all the votes were even counted ... it felt like rescuing my wife from the man who killed my parents, only to find out they had eloped to Vegas.

EDIT: I'll have Gouda, thank you.

[tavalon]

6. well put

I won't even say Senator Roll Over's name yet, I'm so enraged at him. But, I am also beginning to look at the next stage. This is a long hard fight and we need to work quickly to coalesce the huge strength of numbers we had before the election into the huge strength of numbers that is going to make this fascist regime wish it had just stayed home.

[LynnTheDem]

7. And so instead of taking the fight to the enemy and showing how very

NARROW a win bush actually got, you're happy to let this huge bullshit MYTH grow about what a GREAT WARRIOR UNBEATABLE HISTORIC PRESIDENT bush is?

Yeah, THAT'LL get a DEM Prez back in after bush.

WAKE UP and GROW UP.

SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN SPIN.

It's EVERYTHING. That's how BUSH WON.

And THAT is why we lose. PERCEPTION, dear. It's the new reality.

Now PUT ON that HAPPY FACE goddammit and SHOUT to the goddamn world how FUCKING GREAT WE DID when the entire fucking world didn't think we'd manage to get 30%.

WE DID. WE GOT 49%. HALF THIS ENTIRE NATION LESS 1%.

And you WILL GRIT your goddamn teeth and you WILL smile and you WILL shout to the world that 49% of this country WILL NOT GODDAMIT fold and be tossed aside. And THAT is an ORDER!

PS: We're out of Gouda right now...some nice bit of Stilton?

[Flammable Materials]

8. Jawohl!

- It's not much of a cheese shop, is it?
- Well, it's so clean!
- It's certainly uncontaminated by cheese.

[davepc]

9. narrow was winning with -500,000 votes in 2000

Framed in those terms, this was a landslide. The man who cant poll over 47% kicks our ass.

And its going to get WORSE not better, unless we turn red states blue, we're going to lose Wisconsin and Michigan.

The entire world thought we'd kick his teeth in, and we didn't.

Sorry, I cant whistle past the graveyard and claim some sort of moral victory. Chief Justice Anthony Scalia doesn't allow me to do that.

[LynnTheDem]

11. Then YOU sit & wallow in your pitypond.

I have no time for that shit.

I want the currently being built MYTH of bush and his INCREDIBLE MAGICAL HUGE WHOPPING IMMENSE TWO FUCKING PERCENTAGE POINTS to be smacked down hard and fast before we have a MYTH the size of bush's fucking arrogance which we will NEVER be able to fight & overcome.

[davepc]

14. Two points

Is the margin of Carter over Ford in 76. More then Nixon over Humphrey. More then Kennedy over Nixon.

Its an insignificant piece of trivia.

Hand grenades and horse shoes.


Myth busting doesn't get West Virgina, Virgina, North Carolina, South Carolina, George, Arkansas, Kansas, Missouri and any other number of states to vote WITH us next time around and not against us.

[LynnTheDem]

15. And ya know what??? CLINTON hasn't been in office for several years.

I DON'T CARE about 10 years ago or 40 years ago or 210 years ago.

I CARE ABOUT RIGHT NOW.

TWO PERCENTAGE POINTS.

51-49.

Those are FACTS.

And if you're willing to let the rightwingnuts spin that 2% as if it were 200%, FINE.

I'm not.

And just how the fuck do you think sitting around and crying and whining and moaning ohhhh they're laughing at us oooooh we're so doooomed is going to get those votes in WV and VA and so on and so forth???

GUESS WHAT. The bushCartel managed to SPIN and LIE and convince more Americans that WE were WEAK LITTLE NOODLES.

GUESS WHAT. . .

[tavalon]

12. Actually,

the loss was not having enough votes such that the inevitable fraud was able to overtake us. The man who polled 47% got about 47% of the vote as well, the rest was handled by Diebold. 5% was an easy amount to fix, 20% would have been much harder.

[JNelson6563]

16. Your diatribe would be more palatable

if some actual fucking Dem leadership were to step up and take some action. Where the fuck is everyone?? Why isn't anyone standing up and saying "That's it! We aren't playing this game by their rules anymore, roll up your sleeves, we've got work to do!"???

No, our "leadership" is politely saying "thank you now let's all try to get along".

Fuck that.

When I see some leadership then I will be more likely to believe there is anything commendable about our party. Until then your words are meaningless.

Julie

[tavalon]

17. "leadership"

Thank you for putting that in quotes

[LynnTheDem]

18. My "DIATRIBE" as you so graciously deem it, may get SOMEONE

OFF their goddamn ass to BECOME A LEADER.

Why are YOU sitting there whining about NO LEADERSHIP???

BE A LEADER.

Why do you get the priviledge of sitting on your ass, bitching about my post, calling my words "meaningless", whining about no leadership rather than taking some initiative and BECOMING A LEADER yourself???

You get the leaders you deserve. You want better leaders? DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT.

[Name removed]

20. Deleted message

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[ElsewheresDaughter]

23. julie...you go girl!...and teach me how to do what you have done? I live

in a very very rural heavly rethug county in upstate NY...Greene County. I had to drive 70 miles to Orange County just to get Kerry/Edwards lawn signs and bumper stickers for the democrats in my mountiantop community..I want to start some kind of democrat party committee here and could use some instructions as to how to start one.

I took my children and a few of their friends to Boston for the DNC convention for 4 days and also went to demonstrate in NYC during the RNC convention for 3 days. my 12 year old daughter started a "Kids for Kerry" club in her middle school and it has 6/7 members (which is a lot in rethug this district has total only 400 students in the entire K-12 school that covers 320 square miles). the children and their parents are hungry for leadership are ready and very enthusiastic about fighting for siocial justice, environmental and political change in America. we registered 15 first time democratic voters this election cycle and drove 3 of them to the polls on election day.

any advice you can send our way would be greatly appreciated

[JNelson6563]

24. The first thing you need to do is ask

I sent out my first membership mailing a year ago. I got so much feedback and I cherished it. The one I prize the most said simply:

My wife and I had always attended the local Dem events and have always voted Democratic. We never joined the local party before because nobody ever asked us.

It doesn't matter if you have an established county party or not. Ask everyone to join you, once you have a group of like minded souls file your committee papers (check out your SoS website, they may be available on line like her in MI). You'll of course want to work with your state Dem party, you'll want your county party to be a charter member.

Do you have no county party there? Make sure of this first and foremost. Sometimes they can be hard to find if they have crappy leadership. Call your state party to be sure.

Feel free to PM me to continue this discussion.

Julie--overthrow coordinator of the north :toast:

[ElsewheresDaughter]

25. copied and printed out your post.,..thank you for your help and i will PM

for future advice and aid...:yourock:

[Name removed]

30. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[AussieDave]

19. I was suspicious when I first saw the subject of the post

until i saw who posted it - then I laughed. It's true - allow oneself a day for mourning, self-pity, crying, anger, yadda yadda - then get MAD AS HELL.

Bush governed these past four years as if he had a huge mandate, when we all know he had no mandate at all. Now that the Dems have been routed (temporarily), they should oppose as if Dick Cheney had the tiebreaking vote in the Senate and they were down only one in the Reps. Point out every mistake, every flip-flop - say ad nauseam how Bush wanted to "reach out" to those who didn't vote for him and yet does something which puts the lie to it.

Attack at every opportunity - even put on ads on TV and radio pointing out the failures. Even though Bush will never run for office again, this second term has to be so poisoned in people's minds that whoever the next Repug candidate is can be tied to Bush and sunk like a stone.

And another thing - the Dems comeback should start in the States - governor, secretary of state, attorney-general - start from the ground up, get control of state legislatures. And why not start making inroads in the south ??

I could go on and on but I won't - hindsight is a wonderful thing, and I'm sure it's been said before by better people than me - the Dems' journey to retake America's heart and soul started the day after the election.

[Harlan James]

21. Be A Denier Of The Liar

George W. Bush Is Not My President.

[Moloch]

22. Thank you!!!

I remember after the 2002 election, Repugs were gloating that shrub would win all 50 states this time around. If Americans were more intelligent, we would have done better. Anyone who says * was better against the terrorists when he diverted all our resources from bin laden to saddam hussein deserves what they get. W will crash and burn, and it will be fun to watch.

[GreenPartyVoter]

26. And get down to work fixing the system!

-----------------------------------------------------------
FIGHT! Take this country back one town and state at a time!
http://www.geocities.com/greenpartyvoter/electionreform.htm

[RBHam]

27. Wake up, please...

www.blackboxvoting.org

Unless you want to accept a Fascist, Theocratic government...

[OnionPatch]

29. Yep, you're right

I wallowed for a day and a half. I'm done now and ready to fight.
We lost this election for two reasons:

1. Black Box Voting and voter fraud
2. Right Wing Radio and TV news.

I honestly believe we probably had the majority of votes but fraud took the election.

I also believe that it would never have been as close, and Bush would never have such support if we didn't have right wing radio pumping into every corner of America with no counter from our side.

Maybe you don't listen to radio and don't believe it makes a difference, but there are tons of people, especially in rural America who listen to it. Talk to any farmer in Iowa, any truck driver in Oklahoma, any construction worker in Missouri and they'll recite Rush Limbaugh talking points faster than anything they learned in school. If you talk to them and introduce them to our points of view, they will have never heard them. They have no idea where we're coming from. Only what Rush and the others tell them.

TV news.....well, need I say anything?