What do you think of PNAC and do you believe this is Bush's true agenda

[laugle]

Do you believe that Bush seeks to dominate the middle east and control the oil reserves.

Do you believe Bush will envade Syria and Iran.

[ComerPerro]

1. Spend and take like there's no tomorrow

Because, there might not be a tomorrow.

The rapture is coming, after all...

[laugle]

3. Is that suppose to be funny

[ComerPerro]

4. Depends. It was a joke, but when you think about it

It's really not that funny...

That is their policy.

[laugle]

7. I get it now, sarcasm

[ComerPerro]

8. I have a code that helps people read my sarcistic posts

Anything that isn't in italics is sarcasm.

;)

[laugle]

9. Sarcistic is not a word....GOTCHA

I'm the jokester tonight. Got any good jokes be sure to use italics....

[ComerPerro]

10. That's why it wasn't in italics

It was sarcism.

[Enquiringkitty]

31. I just thought of something; Do you think that Bush wants to control

the middle east because the whole area has a biblical history and he might think that liberating the middle east is doing God's work/

He DOES have God telling him what he should do according to what he thinks. What do you think?

[Pachamama]

2. I think PNAC is dangerous and yes, I believe it's Bush's True agenda

Yes, I believe that Bush seeks to dominate the Middle East and control oil reserves worldwide

Yes, I believe that Bush will invade Syria and Iran...

[laugle]

5. May I ask what state you are in?

I am in California, and we are well aware of PNAC. I am constantly amazed at how there seems to be very few people aware of it. Thats why I posted it. Have you found this too?

[Pachamama]

12. I'm in California...how I know about PNAC is more interesting though..

I grew up on the East Coast in a "Republican" household...My father worked in a high level position in the Reagan and Poppy Bush administration. My father is the one who told me about PNAC...he was very disgusted by some of the things he saw coming out of the organization (despite being a lifelong GOP member) and warned me about these people. It stuck in my mind initially and I forgot about it until my Father in law (a retired Professor) about 2 years ago mentioned the name Richard Perle and those "damn PNAC" fascists like Cheney and Rumsfeld and I perked up upon hearing these references. I've been closely following PNAC since and the more I learn, the more disturbed I become.

I spent one weekend reading through some of their "papers" and philosophies. One of the most disturbing was their "predictions" for how wars would be fought and won in the future. One that sticks out in my mind (and I don't remember specifics exactly) but it was along the lines of biological dna agents that could be used to actually attack "enemies" based on DNA basis....scary stuff.... :scared:

I think these people are very dangerous....More Americans need to become aware of who these people are and what they believe...when they see this and realize it, that is when they will recognize and understand what is happening in the Bush Administration and why it is so wrong....

[Swamp Rat]

16. The Leo Straussians

Oi Pachamama! :hi:

[Pachamama]

18. Yep, Leo Straussians....scary folks....like anyone who followed Hitler

Oi Swamp Rodent! :hi:

[Swamp Rat]

19. I'm fading...

:boring:

[Pachamama]

20. Go to sleep! (I'm about to sign off too...)

Must get sleep....As much as I know that there is so much to read and catch up on, I need sleep (as we all do and especially you) to fight the evil empire :hi:

Must keep our strength and be mentally and spiritually strong...

[serryjw]

24. All their pretty faces

http://adbusters.org/magazine/49/articles/leo_strauss/noflash.html

[Swamp Rat]

25. Put on your special sunglasses...

[laugle]

26. Great Picture

I always said BUSH NEEDS AN "EXORCISM"

[chicagojoe]

44. Maybe targets should be drawn on those photos. n/t

[serryjw]

22. If we can only separate the PNAC fascists from REAL republicans

we would win election and overthrow the administration.People assume Bushit & co are Republicans which is so far from the truth

[Al-CIAda]

40. Kerry had a perfect opportunity to EXPOSE the WHOLE PNAC agenda

He could have shown it for all to see -but he chose NOT to...just as he chose NOT to make 9/11 failures an issue.

[Pachamama]

47. Kerry failed there....and I often wonder why he either chose not to or was

advised not to....Just like he was advised to "fight nicely" against Bush...

This still irks me....

[laugle]

50. Kerry blew it in many ways

I noticed both Gore and Kerry were playing it way to safe. I'm glad that Dean is DNC chair now. Maybe the democratic party will finally speak-up, although I'm not holding my breath. Not to bring up old news but what was Gore thinking when he pretended he didn't know Clinton, it was ridiculous!! I say this only because I think this is a symptom of the major problems facing the democratic party of which I have always supported. What do you think?

[laugle]

49. Thanks for reply--very interesting

What is your father doing now? Does biological DNA mean to attack based on race?

[Pachamama]

57. Dad is now retired...he is a lifelong GOP'r...but didn't vote for * - ever

He knows too much about the guy....he ofcourse couldn't bring himself to vote for Gore or Kerry, but there was no way he was going to vote for W in the first and the recent election. My father thought Reagan walked on water and he is "conservative" through and through....he says there is nothing "conservative" about Bush and this administration. Dad always taught about the importance of keeping Gov't small and spending low (ie. fiscal conservatism), out of people's private lives, state rights vs. Federalism, etc. Needless to say, my father sees none of those "values" in this Bush Administration and he's insulted when he hears this administration make any references as if they are following in Reagan's footsteps. My father realizes that Reagan was being used and the Bush team even during the Reagan Administration had other plans. He (my Dad) was very familiar with a lot of the various players and the "Neo-cons/PNAC" and he realized too late what they were up to. It is very disturbing to my Dad what is going on in this country and in the GOP...The fact that my Dad feels this way and didn't vote for Bush and has spoken out against him (someone who worked for Reagan/Bush for 12 years!) is sign enough to me that things are bad. But the things he has said about Richard Perle and some of the other PNAC folks is very worrisome.

And to answer your question about the DNA reference, yes, it would be related to race, gender or any other genetic characteristic....If I can find the document that PNAC produced (I forget the title but it was something along the lines of how future "warfare" would be fought) I'll post it....Sick, sick stuff...just the fact that people are thinking up this shit is disturbing enough, yet alone in a "think tank" with so much influence over our current administration and its policies...

[NEOBuckeye]

11. An invasion of Iran will be certain suicide for Bush, PNAC and the US

There's no way that the US can take Iran with our current standing military. And despite all of the fearful talk of reinstating the Draft, the reality is that a Draft in today's environment won't suddenly result in a rejuvenated army full of well-trained loyal soldiers ready to jump at command for the Chimp in Chief. Military leadership knows this and is very fearful of a Draft themselves, for it will decimate the effectiveness and viability of their forces. People who have absolutely no military training would have to be given a "crash-course" before being shipped off into the meat grinder. Casualties resulting from "friendly fire" incidents and lack of effective combat training/experience will be very, very high.

A LOT of people, if Drafted, simply won't go. With existing military stationed overseas and stretched to the max, how can they possibly enforce punishment against the people who simply won't go?

Answer: They can't. Which is why they hope to rely upon as much fear and intimidation as possible. The Bush-Cheney-PNAC regime will probably try and stage another 9/11 terrorist incident to try and galvanize public support for another invasion. But even then, there will be plenty of dissenters who will blame Bush for letting it happen, or even accuse him of causing it.

And then, there is this gem:

--

"Iran threat: Attack by West risks all 'Middle East oil'

SPECIAL TO WORLD TRIBUNE.COM Thursday, March 3, 2005

Iran has warned that Gulf Arab oil would be endangered by any U.S. attack on the Islamic republic. In the first such threat, a leading Iranian official raised the prospect of Iranian retaliation against Middle East oil exports. The official said such Gulf oil states as Kuwait and Saudi Arabia could be threatened, Middle East Newsline reported.

"An attack on Iran will be tantamount to endangering Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and – in a word – the entire Middle East oil," Iranian Expediency Council secretary Mohsen Rezai said on Tuesday.

About 40 percent of the world's crude oil shipments passes through the two-mile wide channel of the strategic Straits of Hormuz. Iranian forces are deployed at the head of the channel. Oman and the United Arab Emirates are located on the other side. Teheran could easily block the Straits of Hormuz and use its missiles to strike tankers and GCC oil facilities, according to the new edition of Geostrategy-Direct.com. Within weeks, the rest of the world would be starving for oil and the global economy could be in danger.

The U.S. Energy Information Administration projects that oil tanker traffic through the Straits of Hormuz will rise to about 60 percent of global oil exports by 2025. Rezai, a former commander of the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps and a candidate for president, told the Fars News Agency that any Western attack on Iran would send oil prices rocketing to $70 per barrel. He said such a significant increase in oil prices would also be sparked by international sanctions on Teheran."

--

In short: Iran is effectively telling Bush "attack us, and we cut off your 'lifeline'" which of course, is Oil. But not only would Iran be cutting off America's access to the oil, they will be cutting off the rest of the world's oil supply as well. And the rest of the world will retaliate very violently against the US.

Anyway you look at it, this is a recipe for disaster. Iran, if it happens, will be Bush's Waterloo. It will be PNAC's Waterloo. It will be the US's collapse and the collapse of global civilization as far as oil is concerned.

This cannot end well and must be stopped at any and all cost before it ever happens. PNAC, Cheney and Bush must all be made to stand trial for war crimes against humanity at The Hague.

[Pachamama]

13. I agree it would be "suicide" for the US to attack Iran - but I think that

this PNAC led Bush Administration is nuts...quite literally, and suicidal actions wouldn't be out of the realm of possibilities with these people. What drives and motivates them I do not believe is based on rational thought and I almost feel as if they are "suicidal".

Interesting info you put re. the economic impact and oil supply issues related with Iran. Couldn't agree more, but like I said, I think these people are plain nuts and its completely likely that they would go ahead with their crazy ideas and plans regardless of its repercussions...Hell, look at the war on Iraq....who didn't predict what a catastrophic "success" that one was going to be....And they still went ahead...

[sojourner]

6. absolutely yes, and yes....

and that's just the half of it.

I think he seeks to dominate the world. Remember Poppy Bush's "New World Order?"

[LdyGuique]

14. I think that Bush is being used and manipulated

by members of PNAC. I think Bush has psychological and emotional disorders that make him weak and easy to control. As long as his ego is stroked and people do the bow and scrape thing, appear to agree, he's a happy camper. People such as Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz, Pearle, AND Rove had the intelligence to get him to agree with them and make him think it's his idea. It's nearly an axiom, the more shallow one is, the easier to manipulate.

I don't think Bush is really stupid, but not very bright and certainly not very original. I don't think he's ever had to work all that hard and has a nearly non-existent work ethic, which means he lacks discipline. I wouldn't be terribly surprised to find out that he employed devious means to finish Harvard with his MBA.

He's always had Daddy to bail him out and while he's trying to show Daddy that he's all "growed up" now -- he's just transferred all of that dependency to Cheney and Rove. They'll keep giving him attaboys as they direct him along their own vision for his future.

So, within this context, Bush is more honest than we usually give him credit for. He's not lying nearly as much as telling things as he's been coached.

I, too, am extremely concerned about PNAC and its members. I believe that they think that they are correct and are manipulating events to gain a further grip on power. Long ago they passed that ethical line of "means justifying the end" to the "end justifying the means." They recognize just how chaotic the world is. They recognize how messy a democracy is and how radical a document the Constitution really is. I believe that they are pushing us towards a fascist oligarchy, because they really do believe that they know best.

I also believe that it will all fall apart before the next Presidential election as more and more stories will surface and eventually one of the major power-corrupting secrets will be revealed, which will start the collapse of their house of cards. I think that they've encouraged Bush to usurp too many of Constitutional duties assigned to both the Judiciary and Congress.

[Disturbed]

15. The Oligarchy

will not allow the Bush Junta to destroy the U.S. China and Russia will be against any attack on Iran.

[Canuckistanian]

38. Great Picture!

Kinda reminds me of something...
Oh yeah!

This:

[laugle]

51. Good Quote

Unforunately, we don't have any genius' in the white house.

[Nimrod]

42. Those are my thoughts as well

* is, by-and-large, a puppet. This idiotic manchild isn't bright enough to push PNAC on his own. He probably believes in it NOW, but I'm fairly certain that on the outset he was your standard snivelling pampered brat and got fed the elitist crap he so desperately wanted to hear. Just like most of the common populace who continue to regurgitate the administration's bullshit while they're being driven further into poverty and subjugation. They want to believe, just like * does, and they've been told what they want to hear.

[laugle]

53. Bush was annointed from the get

I think they chose Bush because they new (the PNACers) that he is not only stupid, buy a meniacal bully as well. It all makes sense now. He was the chosen one to fulfill the PNAC manifesto. PNAC was shopped to pobby Bush and Clinton, neither would touch it....

[Protagoras]

46. I think the diagnosis for the Bush symptoms you describe is

Dumbass

As for PNAC, since they're so well placed AND above board, it's hard to really doubt their intentions...after all, they're willing to spell it all out there for you on their web site. And the Site isn't a nut site, it's authentic. They letters they started writing Clinton aren't faked, they're happy to take credit for them. The members aren't a secret conspiracy, they publically sign their names. So the only way I can see someone dismiss they casually is through absolute ignorance. Btw, I don't see PNAC as a "conspiracy" because that implies secrecy...and there isn't any. They don't need it.

As for an invasion of Iran or Syria...I think that's the desire of the group, but I think they're still trying to figure out how to wrap up Iraq, and they over extended the military. As a consequence, I think they'll settle for some long term destabilization while they regroup. I can't really see how they can manage to pull off another invasion so soo, but I'd be willing to give them credit for having a great desire to do so anyway. There are too many behind the scene games being played that we aren't aware of though..Syria, NK, Iran, etc aren't just sitting idle, waiting for us to act...so a lot hinges on how they secure their own alliances etc. So I expect another year or two of posturing before things go nutty again. I just can't predict which way things will fall apart a that time...(If I were Iran I'd just push that little energy trading market to use the Euro, send most of my oil to China and Russia, and wait for the US Economy to collapse..but I'm no expert).

P.

[CrispyQ]

55. Well said! I especially agree with your take on boosh.

I certainly hope you are right with your last paragraph!

[rman]

17. PNAC = the neocons in the Bush administration.

Just look at the policies PNAC has been pushing, and look at what they are doing now that they are in power.

Invasion of Syria and/or Iran (and/or other nations) may or may not happen during this Bush's term, but i'm affraid the neocons aren't going to lose power any time soon.

[LunaC]

21. PNAC plans have been on the table since '97 - why stop now?

Of course they'll attack Syria and Iran. They've gone to the trouble of stealing two elections and staging 911 (see link in my sig line) and they want to see the "fruits" of their evil machinations. World domination is the goal and Iraq is only a stepping stone towards that objective.

[serryjw]

23. Actually Wolfowitz wrote the [i] original[/i] one in '91

quote.......The memo was drafted under supervision of Paul Wolfowitz, undersecretary

for policy. Although it is not supplied to Congress and was not intended for public release, the document represents a response at the highest levels of the

Pentagon to a growing call in the American political debate for retrenchment

from commitments abroad
end quote......

http://www.yale.edu/strattech/92dpg.html

[chicagojoe]

45. The PNAC urged Bill Clinton to attack Iraq.

[LunaC]

48. Link in my sig line includes that tidbit

Plus a WHOLE lot more. Don't read it before bedtime 'cuz it''s likely to get your blood boiling.

[leftofthedial]

27. the little bushturd's agenda is the work of his crime family

to accrue as much of the world's wealth as possible for themselves and their class

If they can leverage RW zealots or religiously insane wackjobs, either as dupes or as agents for this agenda, or as diversion or a smokescreen for this agenda, they will.

[NVMojo]

28. The PNAC is behind the GIULIANA SGRENA assassination attempt IMHO!!!

http://www.ilmanifesto.it/pag/sgrena/en/420dd721e0ff0.html

[Swamp Rat]

29. Accosento... I agree n/t

[pstans]

30. Yes, yes, and yes

Yes, I think that Bu$h and the PNAC Fascists want to dominate the world and gain control of the oil. I think Bu$h will try and spread democracy to Iran or Syria once they reinstate the draft this summer. I doubt the PNAC will find a way to invade both Syria and Iran. They will go for one of them and hope the other cracks.

I live in Iowa and I bet less than 5% of the people have ever heard of the PNAC. I am glad that people in California know about their sick attemps of domination.

I posted a while back that we should send emails to Public TV's Frontline and CNN Presents and ask them to do a show on the PNAC. I sent emails and would ask any who thinks the PNAC will destroy America to do the same. I am also considering making up flyers about the PNAC and distributing them across town on bulletin boards and stuff. If people hear about what these people are really doing they better have second thoughts about this administration.

[PassingFair]

32. Frontline DID do a show on PNAC...

I've seen it. They ran it after 9/11.

[pstans]

33. Sweet

I wonder if they have any info on it on their website.

[PassingFair]

34. Here ya go!

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/frontline/shows/iraq/etc/cron.html

Couldn't find a place to order the video, though.
Great documentary.

[pstans]

39. Thanks for the link

But I checked it out and it didn't say the PNAC. It just talked about Wolfowitz writting the basis of what they called the Bu$h doctrine. I don't think that it is the Bu$h doctrine at all, it is the PNAC's doctrine, Bu$h just happens to be the front man.

But that is just me reading through the site and I haven't seen the video so I could be wrong. I also found the link to order a tape for $20.

[laugle]

54. PNAC was discussed

on a documentary last week shown on link or sundance channel. It was called "The hyjacking of 911"and told of how the Bush administration used 911 to go to war in Iraq. It was the only time ever I have seen PNAC brought up. I think it is still playing check your tv listings. Let me know if you find it. I am in California.

[FreedomAngel82]

35. I think so too

I think he will eventually. Maybe not right away but definietly will.
Just look at who all is on the PNAC staff.

[Liberal_Andy]

36. Yes, yes, and yes.

:nuke::nuke::nuke:

[independentchristian]

37. A picture is worth a thousand words

60% of the world's recoverable oil.



1. Oil executives are running the country and their secretary of state has an oil tanker named after her.

2. Look at Bush's first cabinet and the defense policy board. It's full of PNACers. Of course PNAC is deciding our foreign policy, when the Secretary of Defense, his Undersecretary, and the Vice-President of the United States are 3 of the most prominent members of PNAC.

[bklyncowgirl]

41. Yes nt

[GoSolar]

43. Yes,

and yes.

[rniel]

52. Absolutely WILL Fail and here's why

We've already seen american troops barely handle Iraq on their own not to mention our economy and people here taking it hard. Multiply this by 10 to make the PNAC agenda.

There is not enough resources to get it done without making alliances with other countries which they won't do. The people will not tolerate a draft. People that ignored the war before will care if their sons are heading over there.

If you compare what Al Queda spent maybe 200,000 to carry out their plane attacks causing us to spend I don't know how many billions in the response only to gain probably nothing from it.

That's all part of Osama's plans. Osama did the same thing to the Soviet Union in Afghanistan. Just bog them down long enough until they have exhausted all their money. I'll bet they are laughing their asses off at us.

[Zorra]

56. Link to PNAC Archive (Redux)

(A big thanks to Stephanie for her work in creating this archive)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=110&topic_id=80

IMO, B*sh is just the frontboy for the PNAC, and yes, this is the agenda that he is fronting.

[bush_is_wacko]

58. Yes and Yes. but...

I think bushitler has other plans for PNAC and I think PNAC probably has those same plans for him. They stand in the way of each others power. Each is as equally delusional and deceitful as the other. I do not believe they are one and the same. They are just using each other to get what they want. This is the set up to the reason for the next World War.