Police: Funding Cuts Will Hinder Drug Arrests

[Roland99]

http://www.wave3.com/Global/story.asp?S=3059665

They say the effort would be affected most in smaller towns and rural areas where police have fewer resources and abuse of prescription pills and methamphetamine is rampant. President Bush has proposed cutting the budget for the national High Intensity Drug Trafficking Area program by more than 50 percent.

In Kentucky, 27 counties in the eastern and southern part of the state are in the Appalachia H-I-D-T-A, which provides money for task forces of federal, state and local officers to investigate drug trafficking.

The President also has proposed eliminating a separate pot of money that supports local drug task forces and other crime initiatives.

[Name removed]

1. Deleted message

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[Roland99]

3. In this case, yes, money is definitely needed to eradicate the meth labs

Meth production has become a severe problem in this part of the country. The more rural counties do not have the manpower nor the resources to properly patrol and investigate the exploding meth industry. Cutting these funds will make the problem increase, further driving rural areas into more poverty and increase crime.

[placton]

4. Boy are you wrong

1. We will NEVER "eradicate the meth labs"
2. The War Against Some Drugs is the reason, even more than the War on Some Terrorists, civil rights are gone in this country.
3. Education is the best way to fight drugs.
4. Legalize and tax drugs - starting with MJ.
5. We have not criminalized tobacco, and its harder for kids to get that than drugs.
6. Cops today are FAR different than in the past: the word "Gestapo" comes to mind - on all levels.

[Roland99]

7. Legalizing meth is not an answer

I have no problem with marijuana being legalized. Meth is a dangerous drug, however.

And, it's not just about a so-called War on Drugs. It's about eliminating criminal behavior. Should we make LSD legal? Why don't we rescind DUI laws?

[skids]

8. Gradual decriminalization is.

"Meth is a dangerous drug, however."

Yes, perhaps the most dangerous in common use.

But there is more than one choice -- it isn't "legalize" versus "hunt users down, lock them up, and throw away the key." There are a range of treatment options in between, all of which would be aided if they had a legally prescribable inventory of step-down drugs.

"And, it's not just about a so-called War on Drugs. It's about eliminating criminal behavior."

You want to eliminate criminal behavior? Then prosecute criminal behavior, not an activity that you think just maybe might be the cause of some criminal behavior just because that's what the media tell you. Remove intoxication as an excuse for crime, and force people to take responsibilities for their actions, sober or trashed.

"Should we make LSD legal?"

Most definitely. One of the safest drugs out there and very useful for psycotherapists, along with MDMA.

"Why don't we rescind DUI laws?"

Because DUI laws make sense. They need some corners tucked to be sure, but overall they prosecute people for creating a known danger to others. I don't know ANY drug reform activists that want DUI laws repealed. And I know a large number of them.

Rest assured -- they are cutting high level interdiction operations. The average user on the street will still be put into jail on a mandatory prison sentence and end up slaving away for Unicorp. Mark my words, the CIA will be selling Afghani heroin by the time Bush leaves office.

[Roland99]

9. Make LSD legal and see all kinds of crazy shit happening

I can't believe some of the things I read sometimes.

[skids]

10. Oooh. I'm scared now....

You obviously have little experience with LSD.

[Roland99]

11. True. I've never used it. And, what's with the smart-ass reply?

Perhaps your usage of LSD damaged some brain cells?

Let me ask you this: Have you ever criticized Bush for using cocaine in his past? If you have, are you willing to call yourself a hypocrit?

[Ariana Celeste]

12. Aspirin causes more brain damage than LSD

Please check your facts before criticising drug users. Don't believe what the media or DARE has taught you, LSD is about the safest drug you can take.

[skids]

13. What's with the smart-ass cherry picking?

IIRC, you were the one who didn't bother to address any of the other points in my reply, and proceeded to demonize LSD users without having any knowlege to back it up.

And now you accuse me of having damaged brain cells -- who's the smart-ass here, really?

Oh, and FYI seratonin agonists don't generally damage brain cells. You'd have to use them cronically (not the common use pattern of LSD) to upset chemical balance, and that is generally reversable.

No, I've never criticised Bush for using cocaine. I've criticised him for being a hypocrite about his cocaine use, but not for using it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LSD

[Ariana Celeste]

17. Some more LSD info-

http://www.erowid.org/chemicals/lsd/lsd_info7.shtml

I love Erowid! :hippie:

[Roland99]

18. I have friends and family members that have used

the stories they've told (from what they can remember) show that using LSD renders one pretty much incapable of doing anything that wouldn't endanger themselves or others. What's to stop someone from getting behind the wheel of a car or killing someone? It may be a minority of the cases but it can happen and has happened.

[Ariana Celeste]

22. Sober people kill, too.

In fact, I think you will find many many more cases of sober people killing others than you will drug induced murder.

The horrible horrible things drug addicts do is more myth than fact. The majority of drug users are regular people.

So what's to stop a non-drug addict who has taken some cold medicine from getting behind the wheel and killing someone?

[skids]

23. "incapable of doing anything that wouldn't endanger themselves or others"

My what an unbiased outlook you have.

But to answer your question, here's what stops them from getting in a car and driving: it just isn't something a responsible person does when they can't trust their senses. Plus it's a sure way to instigate a bad trip.

In a minority of cases, people who drink alcohol pick fights with other people. Drinking alcohol is legal. Picking fights isn't.

In a minority of cases, people who gamble steal money to cover their bets. Gambling is (in some form or another) is legal. Stealing money isn't.

In a minority of cases, audiences of sporting events riot and flip over cop cars. Watching a sporting event is legal. Flipping over cop cars is not.

In a minority of cases, people who trade stocks use insider information. Trading stocks is legal. Using insider information is not.

How does the government deal with all of the above? And, with all the major studies of drug prohibition showing it to be ineffective, if not counterproductive, why does it continue to choose the wrong strategy in this one case?

[Ariana Celeste]

25. Lol. Why?

Why do they continue? Their buddies in the alcohol and tobacco industry profit from other drugs being illegal. I'm sure you are well aware of that though, lol.

It's disgusting, that safe drugs like marijuana and LSD are illegal, yet alcohol and tobacco are A-Ok.

[Warren DeMontague]

30. Well, people might smoke pot or drop acid and suddenly decide

that they didn't feel like returning the following monday to work some shitty-ass low paying menial job in a cubicle under soul-sucking flourescent lights, for 35 more years so they could retire with a gold watch and a 401k full of worthless stock.

They might decide they want to go live in the country and grow organic vegetables.

That makes those drugs pretty damn dangerous.

[Ariana Celeste]

32. And God forbid,

they might even decide to hang out in a meadow with their buddies, holding hands and talking of peace. Maybe even singing "Imagine" in unison.

[hootinholler]

36. Dang, I thought it was

The back door black funding for CIA, er the new Uber-Intel-Office ops that kept most drugs illegal.

-Hoot

[Ariana Celeste]

42. I believe that, too /eom

[Warren DeMontague]

29. What a crock.

Judging from the misinformation you're spouting, you don't have any idea what you're talking about.

As far as driving; alcohol is legal... people drink and drive-- so, driving under the influence is the crime-- not drinking itself.

Too bad the Grateful Dead aren't still around. Then you could go to a show and really see how people on psychedelics are "incapable of doing anything that wouldn't endanger themselves or others".

The worst, most idiotic people I ever ran into at Dead shows weren't tripping on acid, they were drunk.

I don't do ANY drugs anymore (and I also consider alcohol and nicotine to be drugs, in fact they are among the worst), but I think that consenting adults should be free to make up their own minds about what to do with their own bodies. If they endanger someone else- by, say, driving- then it becomes a matter for law enforcement, not before.

And as far as "the drug trade causes crime and violence", so did the alcohol trade- during prohibition.

[Ariana Celeste]

31. I have to agree

I've known my fair shar of drug users, and will probably meet many more (as there are FAR more drug users than anyone realizes). The most violent ones I have met happened to be drunks, or people mixing meth with alcohol.
Psychedelics don't cause people to get violent. Worst case scenario would be someone who is mentally ill taking LSD and freaking out, or someone taking LSD for days on end, freaking out. But generally, they don't get violent, they get scared. Valium can help that.
Responsible trippers know to be in a comfortable environment when they trip.

[Warren DeMontague]

28. My criticism of Bush's cocaine use has more to do with the fact

that he went on to be governor of a state with some of the most draconian mandatory minimum sentences in the country, where people who did the exact same things he is alleged to have done were routinely sent away for 5, 10 years in prison.

That, sir, is "hypocrisy".

As far as talking about psychedelics, you have exactly as much moral and intellectual authority as a priest talking about sex. No more, no less.

[Pepperbelly]

15. What's wrong with LSD?

:shrug:

[Warren DeMontague]

33. Crazier than the shit that's happening now?

Perfectly sober people seem to want to strap bombs to themselves, fight dumb wars, and fly airplanes into buildings because of belief in some invisible entity known as "God".

Maybe religion is the drug that we need to be worried about.

[Ariana Celeste]

34. "Maybe religion is the drug that we need to be worried about."

I totally agree.

People seem to always want to equate addiction to drugs.

People addicted to religion, extremists, are obviously a concern these days. Drunk on God, that's what they are. Does anyone want to look at it that way?
Only if they are pointing their fingers at the other side.

[Ariana Celeste]

16. I agree.

Quit treating drug users as criminals, and maybe some of them will be able to get HELP. Many addicts do want help. But they are too afraid of the legal consequences, and the cycle of addiction continues.

[Roland99]

19. Addicts have fallen into a trap.

But drug use is illegal. Getting money to buy drugs leads to further crime.

You all are just not aware of the rampant problem of meth in this part of the country. A young girl was recently murdered because she happened to witness people producing meth. She was kidnapped and murdered to keep her quiet.

You think making meth legal will make society better? No, it won't. It will continue to be used and will continue to kill the users and destroy their lives.

[Ariana Celeste]

20. Don't tell me what I am not aware of.

Christ. You think I haven't known lives that were destroyed because of meth? rather than just some story I found online or in a newspaper, I have witnessed it FIRSTHAND, thank you very much.

And everything I have witnessed with these people, have affected me directly.

Do you think criminalizing these people will make it stop? Obviously not!
Legalizing it so far as regulating it and giving people access to a step down drug WILL stop it. How? Because people will NOT be manufacturing it in bath tubs! Why will they stop? Because a step down drug would be legally available for people who are addicted.

:eyes: And I imagine I am not the only one here who is fully aware FIRSTHAND of the bad effects of these drugs, while still supporting legalization and regulation. Don't assume people don't understand.

My uncle is schizophrenic from constant meth abuse over a several year span. He is not the only person I know that has had their life destroyed over the drug.


I don't think you understand what I mean by the cycle of addiction.
Drug use leads to euphoric high leads to coming down leads to feeling like shit leads to doing it again to feel better leads to euphoric high etc etc etc. These people can't get ANY help other than continued use.

[Roland99]

21. I am well aware of what addiction means and how it works

And, if you think legalizing all drugs will magically make them fall to the wayside and be used safely by a very small fringe element, you're living with rose-colored glasses.

You think the manufacturers of drugs like meth are going to want to abide by regulations and file income on their taxes? Bullshit!

[Ariana Celeste]

24. The people who manufacture it now,

would not be manufacturing it if it were legal. Meth as the drug it is, I highly doubt, would be manufactured at all legally. Step-down drugs and similar drugs such as ephedrine pills could be made readily available, and meth manufacturers would be out of business.

If drugs were legal, regulated, and taxed, drug dealers would be out of business. There goes dealers, off the streets, and drug related violence cut down considerably.

I never said a damned thing about it being "used safely by a very small fringe element."
Everything, everything is abused. That will never end.

But legalization and regulation CAN make the streets safer, get dirty drugs off the streets, and cut down drug related violence.

Don't assume I think every little drug related problem would magically go away. Alcohol is legal and there are still plenty of problems. Making pot smokers criminals, making LSD trippers criminals, is not the answer to the drug problem. Wasting millions of dollars on a drug war that doesn't work does not help the problem.

Education, REAL education and not that DARE propaganda crap, will help the problem. Opening clinics where addicts can get the help they need will help the problem. Getting dealers off the streets will help the problem.

[skids]

27. And to that point...

...the war on drugs is the mother of crack cocaine. Crack was invented as an easier way to smuggle cocaine. Had their been no war on drugs to begin with, crack would not exist.

[Roland99]

35. Pretty bold assumption

Meth as the drug it is, I highly doubt, would be manufactured at all legally. Step-down drugs and similar drugs such as ephedrine pills could be made readily available, and meth manufacturers would be out of business.

You're psychic now? Interesting....


If drugs were legal, regulated, and taxed, drug dealers would be out of business. There goes dealers, off the streets, and drug related violence cut down considerably.

Like I said, rose-colored glasses. Every drug dealer out there now is going to voluntarily fall in line and give up the massive incomes they're reaping? Yeah....right.


But legalization and regulation CAN make the streets safer, get dirty drugs off the streets, and cut down drug related violence.

Sure, it can. But will it? I seriously doubt to the level you're expecting.


Education, REAL education and not that DARE propaganda crap, will help the problem. Opening clinics where addicts can get the help they need will help the problem. Getting dealers off the streets will help the problem.

A better solution is ridding poverty and providing better opportunities for those with lower or no incomes. Our welfare system should be a "hand up" system, not a "hand out" system. I can't believe I'm going to use this word but give them a sense of ownership over their own lives.

[hootinholler]

37. What color is your sky?

Like I said, rose-colored glasses. Every drug dealer out there now is going to voluntarily fall in line and give up the massive incomes they're reaping? Yeah....right.

Yeah, that is right. Free market economy. The reason drug prices are so high is that they are illegal. The government wants it this way. It is a major source of funding for black ops, you thought that Iran-Contra was about arms? What country is the number one producer of poppy now?

Open the market and drug prices will fall like a rock. You think that Pfizer wouldn't like to sell recreational drugs?

Funny that it's technically legal to grow Hemp, if you have a stamp that has never been printed. Why is that?

Sad that hunters are being warned about not disturbing empty containers found in remote areas. Why? Because the discards from meth labs are highly toxic. The answer isn't in trying to arrest the people making meth, it lies in making a better alternative available and treating the addicted.

-Hoot

[Ariana Celeste]

40. You talk as if though,

drug dealers would actually be able to make money selling drugs.

The government could easily undercut them, selling the drugs (regulated) for a LOT less money, than what is worth the risk for your regular drug dealer, or any drug dealer.

Rose colored glasses my ass, dude. How many people do you see selling alcohol illegally? Where's the huge profits in illegally selling alcohol? There USED to be a prohobition on alcohol. And people USED to make money selling it. I have yet to meet anyone who sells alcohol illegally.

Did you know, that teenagers have faster, cheaper access to illegal drugs, than they do cigarettes or alcohol?

Legalizing and regulating WILL get dirty drugs off the streets. Because people would NOT make any profits selling drugs anymore. The government would not be selling cocaine cut with various medications that happen to turn out the same color, and they would also be selling drugs at certain doses, rather than people having to play a guessing game and therefore accidently OD'ing at times.

I am so sick of the poverty argument. Not everyone who does drugs is poor, example, Willie Nelson, Snoop Dogg, Hunter S Thompson, Nick Nolte, Sigmund Freud was a cocaine addict ;).

Obviously, friend, you have no idea how diverse the drug culture is. And you don't need to be a smart ass to make your point. No, I am not psychic. I understand the simple idea of supply and demand, and why it is that dealers would no longer make profits. I am immersed in the drug culture, and I understand it for what it IS, not what DARE or the media tells me.

[skids]

26. How do you live with your own cognitive dissonance?

"A young girl was recently murdered because she happened to witness people producing meth. She was kidnapped and murdered to keep her quiet."

"You think making meth legal will make society better?"

Read the above sentences, please, again. Do I even have to explain how badly you contradict yourself?

[placton]

44. I suggest the argument is pulic health, not crim

Meth is bad stuff. Only a fool would take it. I know because I have represented more than 1 such fool. But people have a right to be fools. And the current approach has NOT reduced drug use, but encouraged it - AND taken away our civil rights.

[Warren DeMontague]

5. The vast majority of your "Drug War" tax dollars go to marijuana.

plain and simple. They blather about meth labs but what they're really interested in is kicking down the doors of chemo patients who have 10 pot plants in a closet.

Want the money to eradicate the meth labs? Fine. Then spend it on the fucking meth labs. I think full legalization of pot and a harm reduction strategy (a la the netherlands) towards the users of other drugs would leave plenty of resources left over to go after the meth labs.

[Vincardog]

2. Good so bu$h is not funding the idiotic War On Drugs

Does that mean that he will get rid of the ridiculous mandatory minimum sentences that have murders and rapist released from prison to make room for marijuana users?

[Warren DeMontague]

6. No way! The only people who won't get ridiculous MM sentences

are republicans like Rush and members of Bush's own family.

[Pepperbelly]

14. Good. Cut off ALL the funding for the drug war!!! nt

[Sugarbleus]

41. You took the words right out of my mouth.

I'm not crazy about Meth or Meth labs but the "War on Drugs" is way overblown, negatively affects too many non violent citizens, is way too expensive, freaks out the local doctors for prescribing...on and on.

On the other hand it's too bad that money won't be spent on POSITIVE things like healthcare for all citizens etc etc..

[leesa]

38. Well, some good news for a change!

[knight_of_the_star]

39. There's some silver lining

On a big black hurricane

[libodem]

43. Funny how the war on drugs is ...

is no longer the battle cry...it's been usurped, as the flavor of the month, for rallying the people with fear