CBS just reported real possibility of a black Pope,

[wyldwolf]

Will be interesting to see how the world reacts.

Also, Clinton's meeting with the Pope up next.

[soupkitchen]

1. It will give a new defintiion to Soul Man

[chelsea0011]

2. They will float that canard. It will never happen.

[Gman]

16. Don't be so sure...

JPII was the first non-Italian pope in 455 years. Right now, anything can happen. In fact, I'm personally making the Nigerian Cardinal the morning line favorite. I don't think any one act could do more for race relations in the history of man and man's racism.

[Clark2008]

41. I like him and Danneels of Belgium. n/t

[entanglement]

3. Impossible. There would be large

scale defections from the Catholic Church in Europe and the US. The college of cardinals will never do anything that risky.

[w13rd0]

6. Not at all...

...Europe and the US aren't the center of the universe. An african or hispanic pope would not only not be risky, it would put a face on the church that matches that of its constituents. Literally. And that's also the area in which the Church has its best opportunities for expansion. They'd be foolish to dismiss it because of the ignorances and predjudices of US catholics and europeans.

[entanglement]

9. There may be more

Catholics in the developing world, but most of the Church's money comes from Europe and America.

[Dark]

17. They are when it comes to financing the church. n/t

[leyton]

28. Do you take American Catholics for racists?

I don't know much about European racism, but I'd like to hear an explanation of why American Catholics would leave the Church.

[entanglement]

58. Clarification. I'm not accusing

all American Catholics of being racist. But I can't imagine (some) people won't have negative reactions. That will certainly influence the way they feel about the Catholic Church. Fundamentally, the acceptance of a Black person as spiritual leader would be too difficult. Sort of like the Black Jesus idea; Jesus had to be White to be acceptable as 'Son of God'. Another great example is the UN; while it was never popular in the US, it has become positively hated after Kofi Annan took over. The complaints against it take another form, but the core issue is: 'Who the f*** is this n***er to tell me how I should live my life?'. In European countries like Poland, I'd expect the reaction to be severe. Consider this: When the Polish soccer team recruited its first Black player, Polish fans made 'ape' sounds and threw bananas on the soccer field. You don't seriously expect people like that to accept a Black Pope, do you?

[candy331]

56. They didn't defect when they learned of the scandal of priests

with boys. Surely that would be the most hypocritical thing in history, to defect on color but not on SIN.

[Dogmudgeon]

4. It is possible

Francis Cardinal Arinze is a charismatic and popular cardinal from Nigeria. He has been active in inter-religious affairs -- as close to Ecumenicism as the Vatican conservatives will allow -- for years.

But with over 100 cardinals to choose from, and 5000 bishops, there is a large pool of candidates.

--p!

[Montauk6]

5. Were it to actually happen...

I wonder how devout Buckley, Buchanan, Hannity, Giuliani, O'Reilly, et al. would remain.

[TahitiNut]

7. ... and Novakula.

[entanglement]

8. Exactly; they will never accept

a Black person as their spiritual leader.

[Leilani]

37. I don't believe that.

The Catholic Church's fastest growth has been in Africa.

Unlike the US & Europe, they have no priest shortages, & the center of the church has to move, gradually perhaps, to where its' members are.

I think it would be a wonderful move, & I think most people would agree.

Bigots will always be among us, & not all are white. Several black callers into C-Span this AM complained about coverage of Pope, & that it was racist because he was white.

[candy331]

57. Well, that tells of their faith doesn't it? I suppose they will never

accept a black person as their equal in heaven also, good thing they want be going if that is their attitude because it shows lack of faith in God's choosing.

[patricia92243]

10. Anybody know what Freepers are saying about this?

[Clark2008]

42. Freepers probably don't even know how the Pope is chosen.

:D

[freebird1]

11. We are all the same color in our heart.

What difference should the color of one's skin make !

[John_H]

12. The vatican's PR operation is second only to chimp's

With 2/3 of Catholics in developing countries, they're going to make it look like they're oh so seriously considering a Nigerian, Brazilian, or Honduran for pope. Since the whores that cover the vatican are no smarter or less cynical than the ones that cover the white house, there will be plenty of stories about this.

Then they wil pick one of the italians.

[sundancekid]

29. color me cynical, but I see it the same way -- all talk, no walk -- and

they will probably outdo themselves in picking more conservatism

[Princess Turandot]

53. I think they'll pick an Italian only if they are looking for a short term

Pope, since they are many of the older ones. In the College of Cardinals when John Paul II was elected as a compromise candidate, the majority of the Cardinals were Italian. Now only 17% of the voting Cardinals are Italian.

[Bridget Burke]

13. Nigeria's Cardinal Arinze is one of the "front runners"

Nobody expected a Polish pope, either.

[Boo Boo]

14. In other news, it was reported that

the Vatican has employed Karl Rove as a consultant to help in their search for a new Pope.

"Hey everybody! Never mind that we equate condoms with abortion, part of the 'Culture of Death(tm),' or that we crushed the liberation movement in Latin America, or refuse to admit that adopting the practice of celebate priests has turned the Church into a haven for pederasts... No need to worry about any of that!

"We got us a black Pope!"


Whoop-dee-fuckin'-doo. :banghead:

[Al-CIAda]

18. Bingo -nt

[rfkrfk]

15. does this guy have a website?

I want to see his campaign commercials.

[SpaceBuddy008]

19. 4/20 alert

reported last night NewPope will be voted on from 4/17 to 4/21
if they need 4 days

[Mz Pip]

24. Does that thing

snow when you turn it upside down???


Most of the Cardinals who vote in this election are just as concervative on social matters as John Paul II was. There are a couple of moderates but they really don't have much chance. I just hope it isn't Ratzinger. He's even more of a hardline conservative than John Paul II on social issues and seems to have none of the compassionate charisma.

Mz Pip
:dem:

[TheFarseer]

20. I don't think they will descriminate

I really think the next pope could be anyone that is qualified. Having said that, I have no idea who is on that list of qualified candidates.

[hedgehog]

21. There is an old saying - "He who goes into the Conclave a Pope

comes out a Cardinal."

No one can predict who will be elected or how that person will carry out the office. John XXIII was a shock to everyone. He was supposed to be a caretaker for a few years while the Vatican bureaucrats figured out who would be the "real" Pope when he died. We forget that John Paul II was expected to make massive changes. He actually did create a lot of change, but he didn't go far enough for many (including myself.)

[hlthe2b]

22. And, the italian saying: Follow a "fat" Pope with a "skinny" Pope....

I may be naive, but I'd guess much of Europe might have less problem with it than a loud, and barely contained bigotted segment of the US populace.

[chefgirl]

23. Maybe unexpected, but...

I've been thinking about this Nigerian Cardinal ever since I saw a piece about him on the news about a year ago.

There was a lot of resentment about them electing a Polish Pope back in 79 too, but they did it.
I really dont think his race will be a factor, as much as the 'newness' of the Church in Africa.

I would make him the front runner, actually, but, what do I know?
:shrug:

-chef-

[Totally Committed]

25. I'll believe that...

when I see pigs flying out of the Vatican chimney instead of white smoke!

This is a Church that doesn't even allow women to participate fully, have any right to plan a family, and slaps priests on the wrist for molesting children.

A Black Pope? I'd LOVE to see that, but I don't think it's int he cards. Desmond Tutu would have made a great Pope, if he were Catholic instead of Anglican.

TC

[missouri dem 2]

26. Only if he is right winger.

[w4rma]

27. And you believed them, wyldwolf? (nt)

[Nikki Stone 1]

30. Don't think color will be an issue for American Catholics

I don't know if American Catholics would have an issue with color at all. The dividing lines are along sexual issues: birth control, abortion, pre-marital sex, etc. As long as any new Pope controls the womb and the penis with an iron fist, he'll be welcomed by the very conservative wing of the church. And the liberal wing will have to tread lightly because he will be the first pope "of color" in modern times. All in all, an African pope would be a good political move.

[XemaSab]

31. An African pope

would be a fascinating move.

AIDS prevention and the relationship between the Catholics and the Muslims would be important issues.

Sounds like all the front runners from Latin America are social justice Catholics.

One of the big advantages of a Pope from Latin America is that he would speak Latin as a first language.

[Nikki Stone 1]

32. LOL!!

:D

[mattclearing]

38. Funny.

:D

[Catherine Vincent]

33. Sorry, I can't see that happening.

If it does, I'll eat my shoe.

[mim]

34. Why not?

Why not? Cardinal Arinze is said to be a front-runner, and the College of Cardinals is not the U.S. Republican Party. Tho it will pose a problem for white Catholics who harbor racist attitudes (which is most white Americans, to one degree or another).

[Leilani]

39. "white catholics who harbor racist attitudes

(which is most white Americans"

Where do you get your statistics?

MOST white Americans I know are not racist.

Did you know that the majority of Catholic schools in the US are in the inner cities, & have educated vast numbers of black children who aren't necessarily Catholic?

Do they do this because they are bigots?

The majority of money the Catholic Church spends on charities goes to the Third World. Is that because they're bigots?

[mim]

51. Racist attitudes

I mean that the racism of American society has rubbed off on nearly everyone--everyone from the privileged side of the fence, at least. In the words of David McReynolds, I am guilty of racism in the same way I am guilty of speaking English. No one can grow up in a racist society and not be poisoned by it.

[Placebo]

45. "...most white Americans."

Care to share how you came to that insightful discovery?

[JVS]

35. In the Anglican Church, African bishops tend to be very conservative...

in fact it was conservative African bishops who spearheaded the move to pressure the Anglican Church of Canada and the Episcopalian Church (US Anglicans) to leave the Anglican communion after over the isssue of homosexual clergy.

Are African Bishops in the Roman-Catholic Church known for being liberal or conservative?

[deadparrot]

54. Fairly conservative, as I've heard. nt

[RetroLounge]

36. Give me a Gay Black Woman Pope

and then I'll pay attention...

RL

[kiraboo]

40. Oh Lord, I would LOVE to see that. My mother-in-law, a Catholic,

once told my parents that she was proud of herself because when an African American joined her unit at work, she treated him "just as if he were a human being." You might think this was a misstatement, but you'd be misunderestimating the woman, lol. My husband was mortified! Anyhow I would so enjoy watching her try to deal with this one. Her devout Catholocism has been a thorn in the side of my marital relationship, my own Catholic upbringing notwithstanding. (Long story, this ain't the time!)

[LaPera]

43. Man, people will believe anything, so keep tuning in..."CBS said"

[Clarkie1]

44. My prediction is an African pope.

I've been thinking that for several days.

I think it would send a strong message, and continue John Paul's legacy of reaching out to the "third world."

I mean, after John Paul, can they really be expected to select an Italian pope? Even selecting a European pope at this point would send a somewhat exclusive message, and I think the church wants to be more inclusive with the rest of the world.

My second guess in a South American Pope.

[Zinfandel]

46. A black Pope would alienate every donating racist Catholic!

I know many practicing Catholic's who indeed are racist, here in this country and there are millions throughout the white world.

The white Catholic is where most of the churches money comes from.

I was baptized in old Mission Dolores in San Francisco with a very devout Italian Catholic background...personally, having lived with it most of my life, I know its all bullshit!

A white Pope is expected and would offend no one...

A black Pope would alienate many, the church would never ever take that chance...What for? More donations from extremely poor African nations?

Not a fucking chance...people will believe anything they see on TV.

[kentuck]

47. Yeah, sure...

:shrug:

[liberalpragmatist]

48. I think a Latin-American pope is more likely

There are a HUGE number of candidates from Latin America. From a political point of view, this could be good, b/c Latin-American clergy have been heavily involved in social justice movements (of course, plenty have also been heavily involved in corrupt right-wing politics as well).

The reason I say a Latin-American pope is that I think a Black pope might seem "a step too far" among traditionalists in the Church. Moreover, I think that less of an issue will be racism than simply the newness of the African Catholic Church. The African Church is largley disorganized and there's a lot of heresy among the lay people - syncretism, evangelism.

I wouldn't count out the possibility of a Black Pope, but I think a Latin-American one is more likely.

[Totally Committed]

49. I agree -- Hispanic, Latin-American...

Someone to bring back all the Hispanics who have gone over the the Evangelical Christian Churches.

I got sent this in e-mail, and would like to share it here. There was no link attached, so I don't know the source, but it would be interesting to see if any of these men are considered for the Papcy:

Who Will Be the Next Pope?

While few Vatican officials dare speak of a successor to the ailing John Paul II, several potential candidates have emerged. Having appointed all but 16 of the 123 members of the College of Cardinals, John Paul II has almost guaranteed that his successor will share his conservative philosophy. Some Vatican observers, however, predict the election of a candidate with more progressive views in order to mend the schism between liberal and orthodox Catholics.

Nationality may be another important consideration in the papal succession. The Polish John Paul II broke the Italians' near-500-year lock on the papacy, and growing Catholic populations in the Third World may focus attention beyond not only Italy but even Europe.

The consensus among speculators is that there is no likely American candidate, and an older cardinal -- who would serve a shorter term than John Paul's -- appears to be a probable choice. Here's a look at some of the possible candidates, from the leading contenders to the long shots:

Camillo Ruini
Age: 68

Ruini is vicar general of the Rome diocese and president of the Italian Episcopal Conference. Appointed cardinal in 1991, he is a conservative who may still be able to appease liberal factions.


Jan Schotte
Age: 70

Having kept close contact with many cardinals from around the world in his role as secretary-general of the Synod of Bishops, this Belgian has diplomatic ties that improve his chances for the papacy.


Lucas Moreira Neves
Age: 73

A Brazilian strongly in favor of celibacy in the priesthood, and a firm opponent of birth control, Neves is touted as the pope's preferred successor. He was recently brought from Brazil to head the Vatican's Congregation for Bishops. Neves is well versed in the Curia, the Vatican bureaucracy, but is rumored to have health problems.


Dionigi Tettamanzi
Age: 65

The archbishop of Genoa is highly favored in Italy. Elevated to cardinal in 1998, Tettamanzi is another relatively new member of the Sacred College. He is regarded as a moderate who may be able to mediate between liberals and conservatives.


Francis Arinze
Age: 66

The Nigerian cardinal, a leading church figure in Africa, is a close friend of the pope's and has performed a crucial role in improving the Vatican's dialogue with Muslim, Buddhist and Hindu groups. His conservative theological orientation fits in well with the current Vatican climate.


Pio Laghi
Age: 76

Born in Forli, Italy, Laghi is prefect of the Congregation for Education in Rome. He is an experienced diplomat and was an apostolic delegate in Jerusalem and Palestine. Laghi is noted for his gentleness and compassion, though his lack of experience as a pastor may hurt his odds.


Christoph Schoenborn
Age: 54

The archbishop of Vienna and a highly respected theologian, Schoenborn was appointed to the College of Cardinals in 1998. Born in Czechoslovakia, he moved with his family to Austria while he was still young. Schoenborn was charged by the pope with the task of preparing the church's new catechism, but his chances may be hampered by his relative youth.


Bernardin Gantin
Age: 77

A close friend of the pope's, Gantin is another Vatican insider. He is prefect for the Congregation of Bishops and dean of the College of Cardinals. He was born in Benin, Africa, and, like Arinze, may find his chances diminished by his non-European origin.


Joseph Ratzinger
Age: 72

The vice-dean of the College of Cardinals is German-born and was once archbishop of Munich. Known as "the Panzer Cardinal," the conservative Ratzinger is powerful in the Vatican but may be too close to the pope for the cardinals' taste.


Carlo Maria Martini
Age: 72

Archbishop of Milan since 1979, Martini is more liberal than John Paul II on issues such as contraception and the role of women in the church. His odds for the papacy are lengthened by his membership in the elitist Jesuit order, which has been viewed with longstanding mistrust by the greater church.


Roger Etchegaray
Age: 76

A Vatican insider, Etchegaray serves as president of the Vatican Council for Justice and Peace. He is from Bayonne, France, and served as archbishop of Marseilles for 15 years.


Jean-Marie Lustiger
Age: 72

Archbishop of Paris, Lustiger was born of a Polish Jewish family in France. After his parents were deported during the Nazi occupation, he lived with a Christian family in Orléans and converted to Catholicism at the age of 13. He has been criticized by Israeli rabbis and may be a long shot if the cardinals decide his nomination would anger the Jewish community.


TC

[Comicstripper]

50. Sorry, guys, there's already been a black pope.

Pope Gelasius I. He served from 492-496 AD.

[mim]

52. That's why some say

... that Cardinal Arinze would be the first modern Black pope.

[proud2BlibKansan]

55. Sounds like a great candidate

[dhinojosa]

59. An African IMO will not be much on women's rights, abortion, contraception

If Many africans today don't believe AIDS is sexually transmitted then we are going to have a problem.