What will they do about Howard Dean?

[ReadTomPaine]

Howard Dean seems to be delivering on his promise to be a combative, grassroots style DNC chair. What do you think the GOP and the DLC will do to try and stop him?

RTP

[marmar]

1. They'll start a new cable channel...

running clips of his campaign "scream" 24 hours a day.

[ReadTomPaine]

17. Hasn't the Dean scream been 'reclaimed' by progressive activists?

I've seen it used more as an empowerment clip since Dean took the DNC chair than anything else.

RTP

[saltpoint]

2. I don't think there's anything they can do to stop him.

I am thrilled that he is the Chair. A handful of DLC folks tried to block him from that position. Didn't work.

The Rovians will do their durndest and fail.

Dean's a world-changer. Our grandchildren will read about the meaningful reforms Howard Dean brought to the role of citizens in a Constitutional democracy.

I'm strong Kerry-Edwards and I'm strong Dean, too.

Kick ass, Howard. We're with ya.

[janx]

4. The Rovian stuff rolls off of his back.

The second DLC effort didn't work very well either.

[saltpoint]

9. It's true. He's got what Hemingway called "a built-in --

-- shit-detector" and I think Rove & that crew are going to come up short this time.

[ReadTomPaine]

11. They will certainly try.

I'm thinking the first thing we'll see are opposing Democrats attempt a party restructuring “cleaning house to win” maneuver with several well known political names giving them support.

The goal of that would be to pull control away from the Chair of the DNC and delegate it to an area of the organization more open to manipulation, or if that fails to pull influence from the DNC itself and transfer it to other, 'recast' Democratic organizations such as the DLC.

If that fails my guess is the GOP will follow up with something more aggressive. They won’t let him stand without a well funded, well considered effort to neutralize his influence.

RTP

[saltpoint]

12. Yep -- there'll be attacks from all sides. Dean is broadly --

-- and deeply educated. His college transcript is absolutely extraordinary. And he's a blue-state high-level professional with titanium balls.

But I think he will endure and finally, prevail.

I think he's the best choice for Chair in my lifetime.

[FreedomAngel82]

24. I think he will too

Remember he has the people support of the party and the DNC overwhelmingly voted for him. They didn't even give anybody else a second thought from my watching the whole election process. To me, I think, they just did that to be fair and just in case. When each canidate started to drop out then I knew it was, of course, a shoe-in for Mr. Dean. I'm a new democrat so Mr. Dean is the first chairman I've ever had the experience of having. :) What I love about him is how involved he is and he's doing what he said. He's purely a straight shooter and very clear and on the ball. He doesn't put up with crap from the press which is what I really like. :D

[Clark2008]

15. I hope you're right.

But, with all the hype about Hillary Clinton, I don't see this "cleaning house to win" effort, sadly.

I'm very concerned that Dems are about to be Diebolded and media propaganidized into voting for Clinton in the primaries, just to have her lose the same states as Kerry and even lose one or two swing states because she's so polarizing and a longtime target for the corporate media.

[ReadTomPaine]

16. Railroading of preselected Dems is a legitimate concern..

Lieberman being presented as a viable candidate and insider pick last primary season is a good example of your concerns given life. I won't comment on a run by Clinton either way, but I think it's quite fair to point out she's a polarizing figure.

Interesting snapshot with Dean and Clark together, btw.

RTP

[unkachuck]

19. I think you're right...

....they are definately going to try to 'box' him in and 'minimize' him....if he keeps 'taking it' over their heads to the people and brings back positive results from his tactics, I believe he'll suceed....if he doesn't, I'm out of here....

[FreedomAngel82]

23. I agree

They'll always try of course to make Mr. Dean out to be some super left extremist when in reality he isn't. :eyes: The scream is really old news and I think it should be our battle cry now. :D What would be cool, I think, is in 2008 we have our convention in NYC and when Mr. Dean comes out to start everything everybody there does the Dean Scream. Hehe. ;) I'm very happy and proud of Mr. Dean being our chairman. I was really worried he wouldn't get it but when he did I definietly breathed a sigh of relief.

[femme.democratique]

47. Howard, please stay off of small airplanes!!!!

[ReadTomPaine]

49. Wouldn't be the first time the DNC chair died that way.

DNC Chair Ron Brown died less than 10 years ago in a plane crash.

RTP

[Tom Rinaldo]

3. The GOP will do what they always do, just more of it

As for the DLC, I think they will be fine with it, at least unless they feel they are losing too much influence in their own State patties. Then, I dunno. But even then they won't go for Deans throat in public, the Republicans will.

[tsuki]

64. The DLC is too worried about Michael Moore. Maybe MM can

keep them stirred up and distracted long enough for the grassroots to get firmly established.

[ReadTomPaine]

67. How long do you think a grassroots reorg of the Dem party will take?

I think it can happen a lot faster than most would guess, but it will take support from outspoken progressive Democrats in the House/Senate, as well as a few sympathetic media outlets to become a true national reform movement. Dean can't do it alone. With the appropriate motivation I could see a new, effective Democratic political machine being put in place and functional inside of 24-36 months.

[janx]

68. That amount of time sounds about right.

Three years.

[NMDemDist2]

71. not too long at all

the 04 election got lots and lots of people activated and the Bush admin isn't winning any friends on the left.

as the economy dives and gas climbs it will get easier and easier to build on the momentum from 04

06 should be very interesting. Dr Dean has hit the ground running and is getting the local parties $$$ and bodies to take back the Congress

I wasn't a Dean supporter in 04 but he's doing a GREAT job as DNC Chair

[tsuki]

72. We have already started the reform in the grassroots here. The

structure is not responding to those of us who want to take the message out to the people. I attended the last meeting and turn out was pitiful. It has been declining. People do not want to listen to the same, we're here, we don't have any money, we can't do anything. Oh, and my fav, I've had a long day and don't want this meeting to go on forever.

There are enough firebrands still left that we are thinking of starting a focus group. We will get the progressive message out.

Our message - defeatist meetings are out, activism is in.

[Capn Sunshine]

5. Oh, they'll try EVERYTHING

because they don't understand the man is NOT the movement, just the head of the wave. They might take him down, but another will take his place.

This sort of thing only finishes in victory, however long it takes.

[janx]

6. Well put, Capn.

:toast:

[Carolab]

18. No one can take his place.

Dean is one of a kind. Never saw ANYTHING like him in my 57 years on this planet.

[realFedUp]

7. They'll say he's gay?

I think they did all the same work
as his opposition did...all they found
was a war rally.

yyyeeeeeaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh.

[madfloridian]

8. LOL

:hi:

[ReadTomPaine]

21. There have already been some cheap shots about his marrage...

Claiming it has taken a hit since he's travelling so much due to his new job. I recall them hitting the wires just after he took the job.

RTP

[FreedomAngel82]

25. Go figure

:eyes: And so what if it has. It's his and his wife's business. I wish people would butt out of stuff like that. On this board I used to go on during the election year and debate this one rightwinger all the time talked about Kerry and Teresa's marriage and how they weren't like Laura and George etc. :eyes: Typical bullshit.

[NYCGirl]

35. There was a "push poll" during the primaries asking,

"How can Gov. Dean be a good Christian if he's married to a Jew?"

The opposition has already tried some pretty crappy stuff.

[ReadTomPaine]

66. I missed this one...

It amazes me how so much Likud support exists for Bush and the GOP when the are so openly hostile to Jews and so deeply connected to Saudi Arabia. Ideology always seems to trump religious conviction for powerful conservatives, despite their pious rhetoric.

RTP

[blogbear]

10. Here in my 'red' state the local politics seems to always smear..

when at all possible. I believe in last Sundays paper 'Deaniacs' were described as being predominantly white, well educated, and largely non-religious. As a Dean supporter of course I know there is much good to say about Howard Deans strong character, his leadership skills, and the progressivism Dean is striving to help us all to achieve. Obviously, Dean is on the right track and his critics know it!

[ReadTomPaine]

13. What surprises me is how the Dem establishment have vilified him so...

If you don't like the man's politics, fine, but embrace his success for the good of the party - every Dem wins when an outspoken member is popular and a donation magnet, even from a jaded, cynical, insider perspective. It seems that when you have enough self-serving interest added to that cynical insider perspective, the complaints we've seen start to begin.

RTP

[blogbear]

14. I agree and feel that Deans critics need to realize what you are saying

here. I personally think that Mr.Dean is trying to open more doors of opportunity up for us, and not slam doors shut on us. By not yielding to insider politics, Dean is trying to allow ordinary people more of a say in their own government..

[Carolab]

20. He's begging us to be involved.

He wants us to seize the power and take back our country. He always said so. Everyone should incorporate political action into their daily life. Even if you write just one e-mail, make one call, write one letter, send a check to the DNC, do something, EVERY DAY, to make a difference.

[patricia92243]

61. There are more Republicans dressed in Democrat clothing than most suspect.

[ReadTomPaine]

69. Do you think these are just DINO-style Dems, or actual Republicans...

acting inside the party as moles? Do you feel it's mostly staffers with a key position and someone's ear, or actual officeholders?

RTP

[patricia92243]

73. LOL-I don't know what a DINO style Democrat is. :)

[ReadTomPaine]

74. DINO = Democrats In Name Only

In other words, political opportunists, rather than party loyalists or moles.

RTP

[FreedomAngel82]

26. Yep

I'm a new democrat and this last election was my first so before I wasn't involved at all in politics but one thing I've come to learn is that whenever the republicans make noise about someone or something it means we're doing something right. So them getting their underwear in a bundle shows me he's the right person. :)

[ReadTomPaine]

28. I've often shared that same sentiment here over the last few years..

If you aren't making the GOP howl in indignation you aren't trying hard enough. When they squeal, you know you're on track, and it's time to hit harder still.

RTP

[Dr Fate]

22. Didn't he smoke some weed once or somthing?

Mabey they will bring that up.

[FreedomAngel82]

27. If they do

just point out that Bush admitted it on tape that he did cocaine. It was cocaine right? (The Wead tapes)

[Dr Fate]

29. Yeah- but Dean LIKED IT.

And he listened to Leftist Beatles music while he did it.

I dunno- did it make him scream? There has to be something...

[janx]

33. Once?

;-)

They tried that. It didn't work.

Besides, during one of those college debates on national television, Dean, Kerry, and Edwards all admitted that they'd smoked weed.
It made the audience like them MORE.

[XemaSab]

44. Frankly

I wouldn't vote for anyone of that generation who hadn't smoked weed.

If you weren't smoking weed in 1969, you were probably a coked-up establishment frat boy.

[saracat]

30. What has he been doing that is combative? This is great news!

I haven't heard anything and thought he was being too quiet. The only thing I heard about was Roemer and I don't like that move. What else is happening?

[ReadTomPaine]

31. Here are a few recent links from DU..

"Even in new role, Dean comes out blazing"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=102&topic_id=1391055

and

"Governor Dean gets partisan, Republican former senator walks out"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x1721838

Also-

"'Big News' from Chairman Dean"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=104&topic_id=3468485

and he's even courting the moderates & the south as well with this:

"Dean's formula: Jesus, balanced budgets, gun neutrality"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=103x119008

There's been more, but that's what I found with a quick search. Busy guy.

RTP

[saracat]

32. Well, I don't care for the message, but whatever..

This is a really "moderate" . And I guess I don't fit that definition!:)

[madfloridian]

34. Why don't you lay out the exact message you want?

You seem very unhappy that the DNC is speaking out?

[saracat]

38. I don't see including jesus and extending our hands to the pro-lifers

and softening our stance on gun control as "speaking out". I consider it pandering to the other side for votes. I would like us to be more defined in our approach to who we are. I believe in the seperation of Church , gun control and abortion rights. The other side didn't cut us any slack and they got control of everything! Why must we bend over for them and try to cruise to the center to try to get votes we will never get?
I would prefer that we concentrate on the 79 million eligable voters who didn't vote . It is indicated that had they voted, it would have been for the Dems. Lets fix that problem, not worry about people who didn't and won't support us.

[ReadTomPaine]

40. Singular issues I might disagree with aside, your main point..

is quite valid. I don't see Dean running to the right, but overtures toward non-progressives and moderates need to be made in a way that doesn't compromise the core principles of the platform. Conservative and corporate Dems are very good at injecting themselves into the process and skewing it rightward or toward monied interests.

I particularly like your last point.

RTP

[ReadTomPaine]

37. Well I'm all for more drastic, bare knuckled political action, certainly..

But the improvements over Terry Mcauliffe's stewardship of the DNC are inarguable at this point. Perhaps as support continues to ramp up, you'll begin to see the stronger actions you allude to. That's something all progressives would love to see, I'm sure. Dean does seem to be heading us there, and at a pace that's much quicker than the usual Dem business as usual over the past few years.

RTP

[sandnsea]

41. I see Congress taking the reigns

The activity seems to be coming from the House & Senate to me. SS, Delay, filibuster, judges; it's all coming from Congress. Maybe shifting focus from the DNC to Congress is part of the plan. They did say Congress is going to set policy, not the DNC chair.

[ReadTomPaine]

43. Good call. I can see this also. (n/t)

[Writer]

36. The DLC will do nothing.

Because they support what he is doing for the party as a whole.

[ReadTomPaine]

39. Considering the harsh rhetoric from the DLC's April 5th statement...

I'm not so sure they will stand down. The best way to predict future behavior is by looking at past behavior, and the DLC is not known for being quiet or passive about Howard Dean. Many political commentators in fact labeled the statement a blunt warning to Dean.

Here's an article from right here on DU talking about the DLC statement.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/articles/05/04/06_war.html

RTP

[Writer]

50. The other candidates for DNC chair would not have dropped...

out if the DLC did not see the good Dean would bring to that position.

[ReadTomPaine]

52. Unless they knew he was going to win anyway and made other plans.

It's possible they already knew he had the numbers to win the seat, and started planning ahead to isolate the chair. Sandnsea had some good observations also, in post #43. If they do want him, it's largely as a grassroots ATM donation box, and will try to withhold steering responsibilities for other areas of the party.

RTP

[madfloridian]

42. The DLC is not standing down.

I am working on some stuff I may post. They are having a powerful effect in Florida and other states. They are behind the scenes.

[ReadTomPaine]

46. I encourage you to post about this when you can...

Florida just keeps on coming up, doesn't it.

RTP

[madfloridian]

48. I read something today that I don't like at all.

Trouble is, it is mostly conjecture at this point. One can blasted here posting fact....imagine what conjecture would get one.

Working on it. Partly to do with state chairs, gubernatorial races, and all that good stuff.

Florida will always be a pain in the butt to the US.

[OneTwentyoNine]

45. What will THEY do,what will THEY do?

Umm,nothing that would work. Dean can stand toe to toe with any Repuke and not move a step. He's a powerhouse who can raise shitloads of money.

They Republicans know it and fear it.

[Radical Activist]

51. Get him to adopt their corproate agenda

It shouldn't be too hard.

[ReadTomPaine]

53. How do you think they will co-opt him?

What weakness do you think they will exploit? Dean's got a pretty moderate history as a Dem, do you see his fiscally conservative side being leveraged to get corporate interests a Clinton-era style seat at the table? Am curious...

RTP

[Radical Activist]

56. I think Dean

has always been the corporate-friendly alternative for liberals that the corporate media is happy to cover and corporate donors are happy to support. I think promoting Dean as a progressive leader is a way to co-opt a sizable number of left wing activists and get them to expend their efforts in a way that won't threaten their domination of the political system.

The grass-roots network Dean is helping to build will only amount to something significant if they adopt an agenda far beyond where Dean is willing to lead them. I hope that happens, but it will mean dumping Dean in favor of leaders who are going to challenge corporate power.

[ReadTomPaine]

57. A Kucinich or Wellstone like figure?

Or someone outside the beltway entirely?

RTP

[Radical Activist]

59. They will do.

The more strong leaders on the left the better. I'm definitely a Wellstone and Kucinich person. We need a lot more people like that at all levels of government, leading political organizations, and in the media.

[ReadTomPaine]

60. Losing Wellstone hurt the progressive movement big time.

Then again that's why he was killed. More of him would be ideal, I agree.

RTP

[Larkspur]

62. Kucinich is a marginal leader and a poor organizer

Just look at the Primaries. When he first started out, Howard Dean had as much chance at winning the Dem nomination as Al Sharpton did, but with Trippi's help and Dean's political courage to oppose Bush's war in Iraq when the other Dem Prez nominees (Kucinich wasn't a Prez nominee until late 2003), Dean skyrocketed to the frontrunner status. Kucinich never really got anywhere, and he still is marginal, whereas Dean's grassroots organization is still helping to rebuild the Dem Party from the grassroots up. Dean, not Kucinich, developed a national grassroots organization that is a respected powerbroker, and it is Dean, not Kucinich, that is reforming the Dem Party, a la Paul Wellstone's view.

Progressives don't have to be anti-business because without businesses there would not be jobs or a tax base. See Paul Hawkins, author of Natural Capitalism and the Ecology of Commerce. Progressives just have to demand that businesses play fair in the business world and use government resources to help people where businesses can't.

Dean did an excellent job in VT by getting his state our of debt but still developing social progressive programs.

[Radical Activist]

63. I'll ignore the name calling of Kucinich

because it has nothing to do with the discussion of Dean.

However, I think its important to note one of the biggest reasons Dean did better than Kucinich, which was that Dean got more coverage in the corporate media. There were a lot of people who went to Dean rather than Kucinich because Dean is who they read about in an article or saw on TV. That was the basis for Dean's grass-roots organization. I give a lot of credit to Dean's media team. They built up a lot of hype and had great spin for everything.

There have been studies showing that Dean's increased support came AFTER spikes in news coverage of his campaign. In other words, Dean was able to build support exactly because his agenda was more friendly to the corporate media, thus he was given more coverage than Sharpton or Kucinich. I would also point out that Dean's top contributors early in the primary were AOL/Time Warner employees. Dean was always the more corporate friendly alternative for liberals so you shouldn't expect him to challenge the establishment that gave him so much support.

I won't claim Kucinich is a brilliant organizer, but he did well considering the lack of corporate media coverage or donations. You can bash Kucinich all you want but it still won't make Dean a real progressive who will ever seriously challenge the corporate powers that be. I hope Dean does strengthen the grass-roots of the Democratic Party, and once that happens I hope the grass-roots will go in a new direction to challenge the corporate establishment in ways that Dean never has or ever will.

[mattclearing]

70. I was paying attention to both, but Kucinich never really had a message.

DK had his standard issues which I was familiar with before he ran for President, but Dean had a coherent message and was channeling the righteous anger that many of us on the left feel about what is being done to our country.

He got it in a way that none of the other candidates did. No one was as visibly distraught about the state of America as Dean. That's why he became the frontrunner.

I would also bet that the corporate coverage was more of a result of that passion, as well as a lot of unscripted answers, than of a more moderate background.

I never really thought Dean was a true progressive. And I'm not sure that a true progressive can win the White House. I'm not even sure that one should win the White House.

There are decisions that a President must make that I wouldn't be able to sleep at night having made.

So if people are trying to hold up Dean as some sort of progressive populist hero, then yeah, they are mistaken.

I do think he gets it though. He is more principled than the other Dem '04 hopeful candidates, DK and Clark excepted, and he understands and actually feels the disgust for what our country is coming to. I didn't get that sense with any of the other hopefuls.

And he knows how to play the game. You can't win if you don't know how to play.

[BLUSH]

54. GOP and DLC Will Try And Stop Him?

They can't stop Dean:













Move over Ah-nold!

[BLUSH]

65. As Ah Nold says, "CRUSH YOUR ENEMIES"

[AussieDave]

55. The GOP will encourage him to fly in small planes a lot

- better chance of crashing. After all, it worked for them with Mel Carnahan and Paul Wellstone..........

[ReadTomPaine]

58. See post #49... (n/t)