Anyone hear Ed Schultz talking to Tom Hanson from

[LandOLincoln]

MoveOn about the ad they're running against Rep. Stennie Hoyer (D-Maryland) because he voted for the bankruptcy bill?

Schultz had talked to Hoyer last week about his vote, and Hoyer said he thought there was a lot of "misinformation" about the bill, and more safeguards included than people seemed to know about. (I know means testing was included, with the low end around 40K, but that's about all I've heard).

Now there's another prominent MoveOn guy telling Schultz he pulled out of the organization this morning because he thinks it's insane for them to go after Dems, especially when there's so much at stake.

Anyway...thoughts, anybody?

[BlueEyedSon]

1. We need to go after the bad dems too.

[Vincardog]

3. There have to be consequences for voting to gut human protections.

I do not believe we have to have alternative candidates we have to show 'our' folks that they have to be on our side.

[LandOLincoln]

5. NOT NOW.

First things first.

The country is teetering on the brink, and MoveOn wants to spend $100,000 going after a Democrat??

[shance]

9. The corruption and back slapping is bigger than either party now.

Time to clean house. The longer we wait, the more emboldened they become and the more the deluded ones will be prone to violent means in order to stay in office.

We have to clean house methodically but very clearly and with conviction that those who wish to be corrupt and abuse their constituents by outright neglect and disregard will be removed or impeached.

[LandOLincoln]

10. Don't you think it might be a better idea to

take back the House and Senate first?

[shance]

14. With what? Republican clones?

Dressed to look and talk like Democrats but to vote like Republicans?

The result is the same. Chaos, cowardice and corruption.

We cannot afford more of the same.

[MoonRiver]

15. We'll never do that if people don't believe we'll stand up for them.

Voting with Repukes is not the way to wins the hearts and minds of grass roots Democrats and potential Democrats.

[wyldwolf]

13. I guess this is how they're going to "take the party back..."

though how they can take something BACK they never HAD I don't know.

[tishaLA]

2. I posted about it

here http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=104x3499347

Thread title? Ed Schultz is really a Putz today. I think that says it all.

[NewJeffCT]

4. I agree with Schultz

So much is at stake here that we can't use it for our normal circular firing squad. We have less money than the bad guys, so we need to use it wisely and not by attacking other Democrats. Nobody out there is 100% ideologically pure. I'd take 10 Stenny Hoyers over 10 "moderate" Republicans any days of the week. Actually, I don't even know if there are 10 moderate Republicans in the house these days.

yes, the bankruptcy bill is bad. That can be changed if we win the House & Senate back. I know, it's a pipe dream, but things would be hugely different if we had at least one of them. We could start public investigations of so many things, modify the medicare prescription drug bill, etc. And, if it gets vetoed, we have ammo for 2008.

[joeybee12]

6. Supporting the bankruptcy bill by the Dems was a huge mistake...

...the only way the Dems will ever become the majority party again is if they stand up for the middle class, the working people, the little guy. When they go whole-hog on board with grabage like this, there's no way the average Joe will buy it from the Dems when they say they're looking out for the interests of the middle class--they see the Dems as Repuke lite.

[KoKo]

8. Agree....Bankruptcy bill showed the difference between those who care

and those who care more about their Corporate Donations and their high regard for the Lobbyists who represent the Banks.

[Moochy]

7. Holding Democrats accountable for bankruptcy bill

"Holding Democrats accountable" just sounds like a republican talking point these days, even if it's not meant to be one.

Cleaing house can be done when we have a majority, but to kick those corporate neo-liberal democrats out of the tent who always side with their biggest donors, would be politically disasterous at this point.

We need the lily-livered dems in 2006 to stay in congress and the senate. We also need to take seats in districts with republicans whose seats are winnable.

When this kind of dem-on-dem attacks appear in the press, it focuses attention on the neolibs, possibly making them vulnerable to more attacks along the same line that moveon.org uses. It's a wedge.
This should be done when dems hold majorities, and before that time it only helps the republicans.

I think it'd be more effective for Moveon.org to spend that money to encourage letter writing from constituents to their reps, and to major newspapers, but a full-page-ad just serves as kindling for the right.

just my $ .02

[LandOLincoln]

11. I agree completely. n/t

[MoonRiver]

12. Made me mad.

How dare he say we cannot criticize Dems who sell us out. Moveon rocks. Keep up the good work Tom!

[LandOLincoln]

16. Does that mean...

you feel the same way when Wes says Democrats shouldn't criticize other Democrats?

[MoonRiver]

17. I don't think we'll win back our base

unless we consistently speak for them and for the values that have always defined the Democratic Party. I for one cannot go for blind allegiance, especially for those who are not voting for the Democratic base. I don't think General Clark said we couldn't voice disagreement with other Dems. I haven't read that statement of his though so I'm not sure.

[dogman]

19. Voicing disagreement is not the problem.

I criticize the Dems who voted for it in a forum like this. I think a family can have a disagreement amongst itself without taking it out in the street. The point is they are spending money to take on a Dem when we are looking for a chink in the GOP armor. It is not a wise or effective use of our assets at this point in time. Why feed our enemy now unless we have an alternative that can win his seat and make a difference. A large number here are critical of not enough concentration on winning in '06 and then we shoot ourselves in the foot. Any one who thinks we are going to raise the needed money should go look at what the GOP just raised in the first quarter after the election. Idealism is a wonderful thing but we have to be practical or be willing to be in the minority and watch what a one-party system does to us.

[MoonRiver]

20. But don't you see, being practical has gotten us exactly nowhere.

My feeling is that people want to see a party that will truly stand up for the rights and needs of ordinary citizens. Placing ads like that gives voice to this sentiment and lets DINOs know that we, the Democratic Party majority, will no longer tolerate them selling us down the river. That is the way to win. Make sure ordinary people, who are suffering from *'s policies, understand we're there to help.

[dogman]

22. Will they think of Moveon as the Dem Party?

Or will they see it as a fringe group dictating to the Party. Dems should already know better. We have to convince the middle to come with us. If they spent the money explaining the issue to the people before the vote and told them to contact there Rep it would be a wiser use of funds,IMO. At this point in time we can not throw out DINOs unless we have candidates to replace them, who can also get elected. Do you know how many other Dems voted for this bill? If we threw them all out we would not be able to influence anything. I do not like their vote but it is one of many. What about the members who voted for the Schindler bill? You would decimate the CBC if you threw them out. We cannot bargain from a position of weakness. We must regain our strength and the we can have a say at the table.

[mopinko]

18. you can make the loyalty argument re the white house

maybe even the senate, maybe. but not the people's house. challenge these pink tutus in the primaries, support all d's in the general. get over the stockholm syndrome people. take our party back.

[AmandaRuth]

21. I can see both sides, but really lean towards the Ed Schultz's side.

At the very least, could Moveon at least have included 3 or 4 more words in the ad on the order of "Stennie Hoyer, and all house republicans", or something like that.

For what its worth, I will never send any money to Moveon as long as spend one cent attacking other Dem's, ESPECIALLY in the MSM. It just does more harm than good.

Edited to add, when we, the Dem's (meaning you, me, us, the party) clean house, and it does appear that it needs to be cleaned, we should do it privately, not in front of an entire nation that already holds some fairly inaccurate perceptions of the Dem's. IMHO

[LandOLincoln]

23. I got an email from Barbara Boxer's PAC today.

I expect quite a few of you did too.

Here's part of it:

"Sometimes, with all the important issues that we're fighting for
every day, it's easy to lose track of the big picture. From
debating John Bolton's UN nomination to repealing the global gag
rule and stopping the EPA's program of testing pesticide on our
children, things are coming fast and furious.

But even in the midst of all of this, we've got to step back
from time to time to see where we are and plan for where we're
going. In 19 months, we're going to take back the Senate for the
American people by winning a Democratic majority -- and we've
got to start now, by supporting those Democratic incumbents in
tough races.

On May 1st, PAC for a Change will be making a $10,000
contribution to the re-election campaign of one of my Democratic
colleagues ($5,000 for the primary election and $5,000 for the
general election). And I want you to tell us where to send it."

*******

10,000 poxy dollars, and we have to choose only one of 4 senators whose seats may be at risk in 2006.

And MoveOn spends 10 times that much to attack a long-time Democrat over ONE VOTE?

[MAlibdem]

24. I think it's stupid to go against dems...

our first priority needs to be not being in the minority.

[Blue Topaz]

25. I agree with you

When we have the majority back, crap like this bankruptcy bill won't even make it to the floor. We'll be running the table. I am very unhappy with Dems who voted for this trash, but first things first. We need to get the majority back.

Look at how we gloat over every single never-heard-of-him Republican who speaks out against Bush's Social Security scam. Why give fodder to the enemy? I'm disappointed with MoveOn.