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Dems failing to connect huge Chimp deficits with high gas prices.

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European Socialist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 09:28 AM
Original message
Dems failing to connect huge Chimp deficits with high gas prices.
Much of the price increases in fuel are caused by the fall in the value of the dollar. It's bad enough to bankrupt the Treasury for an unjust war and tax cuts for the rich. We also get higher gas prices too.
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 09:30 AM
Response to Original message
1. Anybody got a chart of US gas-at-the-pump price vs the euro, yen or pound?
thx
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Francis Donating Member (317 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 09:33 AM
Response to Reply #1
3. Don't even go there
compared to Europe. US gives gas away
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BlueEyedSon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 09:35 AM
Response to Reply #3
5. No, I don't want the price of gas in Europe (which is well over $US5)
Edited on Mon Apr-25-05 09:43 AM by BlueEyedSon
I want the US price, denominated in foreign currency to TAKE THE DEVALUED DOLLAR OUT OF THE EQUATION.

If the price has changed little (in euros, say), it is proof that the problem is the dollar, not the gas.
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 09:32 AM
Response to Original message
2. also a war that has cut off
the second largest oil deposits in the world. these fields have not produced to capacity for 20 yrs. the problem is that it will take over ten years to rebuild and open new fields.
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hadrons Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 09:35 AM
Response to Original message
4. CNN has been running stories about falling gas prices (serious)
talking head (breathlessly) 'gas prices have fallen four cents in the past week ... find out why!!!'

I was biking Saturday morning in NYC and my neigborhood station had $2.49 and when I came back an hour later it was $2.55
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 09:36 AM
Response to Original message
6. High gas prices: lagnaippe, a little something extra
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 09:56 AM
Response to Original message
7. The Weimar Republic's disastrous hyperinflation ....
...can this happen here in the U.S. with George Bush's policies?

<snip>
The German Hyperinflation, 1923

Before World War I Germany was a prosperous country, with a gold-backed currency, expanding industry, and world leadership in optics, chemicals, and machinery. The German Mark, the British shilling, the French franc, and the Italian lira all had about equal value, and all were exchanged four or five to the dollar. That was in 1914. In 1923, at the most fevered moment of the German hyperinflation, the exchange rate between the dollar and the Mark was one trillion Marks to one dollar, and a wheelbarrow full of money would not even buy a newspaper. Most Germans were taken by surprise by the financial tornado.

"My father was a lawyer," says Walter Levy, an internationally known German-born oil consultant in New York, "and he had taken out an insurance policy in 1903, and every month he had made the payments faithfully. It was a 20-year policy, and when it came due, he cashed it in and bought a single loaf of bread." The Berlin publisher Leopold Ullstein wrote that an American visitor tipped their cook one dollar. The family convened, and it was decided that a trust fund should be set up in a Berlin bank with the cook as beneficiary, the bank to administer and invest the dollar.

In retrospect, you can trace the steps to hyperinflation, but some of the reasons remain cloudy. Germany abandoned the gold backing of its currency in 1914. The war was expected to be short, so it was financed by government borrowing, not by savings and taxation. In Germany prices doubled between 1914 and 1919.

After four disastrous years Germany had lost the war. Under the Treaty of Versailles it was forced to make a reparations payment in gold-backed Marks, and it was due to lose part of the production of the Ruhr and of the province of Upper Silesia. The Weimar Republic was politically fragile.

But the bourgeois habits were very strong. Ordinary citizens worked at their jobs, sent their children to school and worried about their grades, maneuvered for promotions and rejoiced when they got them, and generally expected things to get better. But the prices that had doubled from 1914 to 1919 doubled again during just five months in 1922. Milk went from 7 Marks per liter to 16; beer from 5.6 to 18. There were complaints about the high cost of living. Professors and civil servants complained of getting squeezed. Factory workers pressed for wage increases. An underground economy developed, aided by a desire to beat the tax collector.

<more>
<link> http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/commandingheights/shared/minitext/ess_germanhyperinflation.html



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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 10:13 AM
Response to Reply #7
8. No, not unless the US starts printing a similar amount of money
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 10:37 AM
Response to Reply #8
9. Giving indiscriminate credit is like printing money....
...even teenagers who are 14 years old have access to their own credit cards now.
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Zynx Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 10:39 AM
Response to Reply #9
10. True, but it isn't even in the same order of magnitude as Germany
Edited on Mon Apr-25-05 10:40 AM by Zynx
It's hard to conceive of how much cash they were putting out there. The US isn't close to that, and can't get close to that through credit.

You're not talking devaluing the dollar 20%, you're talking devaluing it several MILLION times.
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whistle Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Apr-25-05 11:21 AM
Response to Reply #10
11. Correct, in the short run low inflation numbers of 1.0% to 3.0%...
...seem to help the economy from stagnating as long as there is real growth in productivity. But, the warning signs come when the inflation rate starts to increase which is what it now appears to be doing with wholesale pricesm moving up into the 6.0% to 8.0% range. Those numbers will pass through to consumer prices fairly quickly as we have watched with gasoline at the pump prices.

What is behind these numbers? Bush's war most certainly, but also Bush's huge federal deficit spending for nothing that adds to productive capacity in the economy. That appears to be exactly what happened just prior to the Weimar Republic's hyperinflation stage in 1922-23. The Germans had huge private and public debts while unemployment rates began to accelerate in the German economy.

In the U.S. our leaders seem to deny that conditions are moving in that same direction. Well our combined private and public debt far outstrips our ability to pay it back:

<snip>
America's Total Debt Report:page 1 of 2

$ 40 Trillion - - and soaring - household, business, financial and government sectors -
by Michael Hodges
updated March 2005


America has become more debt-dependent - - than ever before

with total debt of $40 trillion, or $136,479 per man, woman and child
and each added dollar of new debt produces less increased national income.

<more>
<link> http://mwhodges.home.att.net/nat-debt/debt-nat-a.htm#bigpicture

$40 trillion in total debt is 3.5 times our annual GDP. Americans save less than 5% of what they make, so by doing the math it would take the country 70 years to pay back this debt. Now wonder Bush wants to cancel the Social Security system!
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