Can you think of a good excuse for voting for Ronald Reagan twice?

[cestpaspossible]

How about voting for Nixon, Ford, Reagan (twice), and G.H.W.Bush? What would be an excuse that would coverup decades of poor judgement like that?

[Clark2008]

1. Can you start another flame war?

I know why you're doing this.
It's so apparent.

:eyes:

[cestpaspossible]

5. Can you think of a good excuse?

What is it?

[Clark2008]

76. I can think of several

but, as I'm not participating in your push-poll, I won't elaborate.

Besides, judging from the responses, it's not working, anyway. :P

[dbackjon]

2. I was a dumb kid?

[thecai]

3. The Only Good Excuse Is Ignorance

IMO

[Atman]

4. Alzheimers?

What was the question?

[FiveGoodMen]

6. Can't think of a good idea to do it once!

[rzemanfl]

7. Some people just loved "Death Valley Days." n/t

[Tigress DEM]

8. When you spend 1/2 on A and 1/2 on B and the other 1/2 on C....

Reagonomics.... No wonder he tripled the deficit.

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

9. Well, there you go again....

Carter has been a really good ex-President but, between the economy and the never-ending Iran hostage crisis, he was doomed. Now, Mondale was tagged "Mr. Bussing" and very few parents wanted their kids traveling 50 miles round-trip to school everyday. Reagan did have charm and was able to work with Tip O'Neill & the Dems. W, on the other hand, only wants to shove his agenda through without any compromise. IMHO.

[LittleClarkie]

12. Yeah, Mondale wasn't exactly Mr. Charisma, I have to admit

I don't even know if I voted back then. It would have been my first.

[pretzel4gore]

19. no.

it was revealed when sam donaldson was doing the last show (press the meat? fukk the nation? this week)? that the well known liberal newsman was in fact a goldwater voter....thanks to george will. Will told donaldson that as he was leaving the news, could he tell how donaldson voted in '64? while donaldson stared in helpless rage, will told the world that donalsdson voted for GOLDWATER in 1964! Now most at DU may not remember, but Goldwater, as honourable as he appears today, was an extreme rightwinger who thought using nukes on russia was a good idea...the 'liberal' johnson won by a landslide. But to find out in 2003 that one of the top visible newsmen in the US, a renown liberal, actually voted for Goldwater in '64, says that the fiction the media is 'liberal' can, and should be, refuted by showing the entire mass media, with few exceptions, are rightwing nazipoo pervert pigfukkers (excuse my english)....carter was a good prez, so would have been mondale, dukakis al gore or john kerry, compared to the kept men who the mediawhores sing praises of....it was the mass media who gave the people geebush, and the cost of it will not be paid in 10 generations!

[signmike]

10. Do you realize that since we in Calif had him twice

there may be some people dumb enough to have voted for the turkey neck 4 times?

:puke:

Please, Sir, may I have another?

[cestpaspossible]

11. Yeah,

there may be some people dumb enough to have voted for the turkey neck 4 times?

and could you imagine choosing one of those people as a leader?

[More Than A Feeling]

I don't hold it against Wes that he did that

I name it irrelevant in my sight.

[cestpaspossible]

13. All you folks who voted 'yes' forgot to give your excuse.

If you can think of a good excuse for voting for Ronald Reagan twice, please share it with us.

[sharonking21]

14. This is a push-poll

much like those used by our unworthy Republican opponents. Thus I didn't vote.

[cestpaspossible]

15. Can you think of one?

[Cuban_Liberal]

16. Not offhand, no. n/t

[wyldwolf]

17. Excuses? How about "reasons."

Disclaimer: I didn't vote for Reagan.

Preface: Often perceptions are not reality - yet the average voter, and often the politically knowledgeable voter - doesn't get it.

1. Many people were attracted to Reagan's "grandfather" appeal.
2. Many people were attracted to Reagan's "macho military" facade.
3. In 1980, the "misery index" -- unemployment plus inflation -- crested 20 percent for the first time since World War II.
4. Carted ignited the Iranian Hostage crisis, and was blamed for botching the rescue attempt.

Now, you can argue these points. I would, too, but that is because I know the score. The average person doesn't. Carter's approval was at 20% in 1980 so people voted Reagan for the reasons listed above.

So, I repeat - before you say "Reagan didn't go much for the military" or "the economy wasn't Carter's fault" or any other response for the reasons above, remember - perception isn't always reality.

[cestpaspossible]

22. NO, I'm looking for an excuse. A reason to forgive Wes Clark

I mean there are plenty of reasons people make the wrong choices - poor judgement is probably the most common one - but that doesn't excuse them from the consequences of those wrong choices.

[wyldwolf]

23. uh... are you looking for someone to pull out a Wes Clark quote?

Perhaps he voted for Reagan for the reasons above? I mean, the Iranian Hostage crisis was a foreign policy disaster.

But if Michael Moore has no problem with Clark having voted for Reagan, and McGovern thought enough of Clark to endorse him, then I'm satisfied.

[cestpaspossible]

27. I'm looking for what I said I was looking for.

I said exactly what I wanted to say, in exactly the way I meant to say it.

Can you think of a good excuse for voting for Reagan twice? What is it?

[wyldwolf]

32. oh, I get it

You're not looking for answers, you're looking for cestpaspossible approved answers.

[cestpaspossible]

34. No, I don't think you do get it. Clark voted for Reagan TWICE

So the Hostage Crisis excuse you are giving is bogus.

[wyldwolf]

41. no, it isn't bogus

If people voted for Reagan once and saw no sufficient reason to vote for Mondale in '84, they voted for Reagan again.

[Jai4WKC08]

45. I think the answer is obvious

Because he thought Reagan would be a better president.

You have no clue about his perspective from the post-Vietnam military.

For that matter, you have no clue as to how anyone else who may run for president voted in 1980 or 84. You only know that Clark is honest about it, because it certainly would have been to his advantage to lie.

[Texas_Kat]

74. Let's not forget that President Carter asked Clark to run in 2004.

Duh, in other words.... get over it.

[Adelante]

93. Don't forgive him

If you don't trust the man, you can never forgive him. We get it. Don't vote for him when the opportunity arises. But you know what? In a democracy we all get to vote for whomever we want. I didn't vote for Reagan. I have never voted Republican in my life. But I didn't live the life Wes lived and didn't have his reasons. I've never been puritanical, either, so your closed-minded jive is in its way more offensive to me than somebody's 25 year old voting history.

[Name removed]

18. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cestpaspossible]

20. Yeah, you need to say more

[Deja Q]

64. You may have said too much already.

Personal attacks are not nice.

[sharonking21]

67. And may you get

termites in yours. }(

[LittleClarkie]

21. Any particular reason you ask?

Directed at anyone in particular?

[cestpaspossible]

25. Yeah, Wesley Clark has voted Republican most of his adult life

I'd like to understand why. What's the excuse? It certainly is NOT IRRELEVANT.

[wyldwolf]

26. It's completely irrelevant

[cestpaspossible]

29. I don't think supporting Republicans over Democrats is irrelevant.

Frankly, the idea that who you voted for in the past is irrelevant to how you will approach policies and appointments in the future is laughable.

[wyldwolf]

39. you might be right... but then again...

I mean, FDR apointed two prominant Republicans to high cabinet positions.

John Kennedy appointed ultra conservative Byron White to the Supreme Court and Republican Robert S. McNamara as secretary of defense.

As Governor, Howard Dean appointed the six-term Republican attorney general to the chief justice of the Vermont supreme court.

So screw 'em all!

[AP]

28. I read in an article somewhere that his son was a Republican in college.

I'm not clear when or why he became a Democrat.

Same with the Heinz kid.

[cestpaspossible]

31. Clark first registered as a Democrat in October 2003

so that answers the 'when' part of your question.

[LandOLincoln]

57. Wrong as usual. He first registered as a Dem in

January of 2002, although he'd been voting Dem for 10 years by that time.

[Cuban_Liberal]

58. Care to provide proof of that?

I recall distinctly the brouhaha surrounding his change of voter registration from 'Independent' to 'Democrat' after he had announced his run for the nomination.

[LandOLincoln]

60. Sure thing:

http://tinyurl.com/9ccdz

Preguntas?

[Cuban_Liberal]

68. Si, tengo preguntas.

Where does that form say 'Democrat' on it?

[Cuban_Liberal]

91. *crickets* n/t

[Texas_Kat]

79. You know Wes, Jr posts here. If I were you'd I'd be ready with an apology

[AP]

92. For what? Googling?

I wish I kept a link. It was an interview with him. He admitted being a Republican at Georgetown. He said he was very conservative in college and in the army.

[LittleClarkie]

44. Sorta figured that's where you were going

He was a Republican-voting Independant until he got around Dems during the Clinton admin, and realized they were nothing he'd been told. While Repubs were dividing people, Dems brought them together. He decided that what they represented was something he could get behind.

He also said his main issue in each election was national defense. So if you can believe he voted for Clinton and Gore based on that issue, there's another for you.

www.factcheck.org has something about it in their archives.

[Adelante]

75. Of course, it's irrelevant

What's more it is exaggerated.

In his adult life:

Nixon, Ford, Reagan

Carter, Clinton, Gore, Kerry


So, for more of his adult life than he voted Republican, he voted for Democratic presidents.

He has said that in one presidential year, while he was overseas, he didn't have a ballot in time to vote and believes he didn't vote that year.

Although it has been reported without end that he voted for GHW Bush, Wes Clark has never been quoted as having said it himself, but even if we want to assume he voted for GHW Bush in 1988, he has still voted Democratic for the past 13 years. And he voted for Carter in the 70s.

In fact, he could have lied his ass off about who he voted for, and we would never know he voted for Republicans 25 and 30 years ago or that he voted for Democrats for the past 13 years and earlier.

The fact is he did not belong to a political party until he became a Democrat and as a military man, in the earlier years of his career, he mostly voted on national security grounds.

That's the whole story.

Show me the crime.

[Poppyseedman]

24. Voting for Reagan was easy the first time.

I don't know about the rest of you, but I was an adult when Carter was President. As President: Carter sucked wind big time.

As a person Carter is one of the best people to came out of Washington still a decent human being which he should receive a huge amount of credit for.

Anybody who lived during Carter's Presidency and thinks it was "good" needs to have their meds lowered.

At that time Reagan was the answer to a lot of Americans hopes and dreams. He was the leader many people were looking for to help us get out of the mess this country was in.

Looking back it is easy to see his faults, but at that moment in history, it was a no brainer to vote for him.

Lest anyone forget, he won by a landslide so I doubt I'm in the minority

[XemaSab]

30. And what about the second time?

Need I say, Reagan sucked wind big time.

[cestpaspossible]

33. I would never trust someone who voted for Reagan in 1984.

Reagan was evil, his administration was evil, and I'd like to hear someone explain to me why voting for Reagan in 1984 was the right thing to do.

[yebrent]

43. It was still the Cold War.

Clark has stated that he incorrectly believed that Democrats were isolationists and weak on defense. It wasn't until he met Clinton and worked closely with him that he realized that his beliefs regarding Democrats and the defense of America was a stereotype he latched onto. My guess is that his experience with most Democrats in regards to national defense through the 1970s and 1980s was much different than his experience with Democrats in the 1990s. Personally, I am impressed by Clark's ability to challenge his own assumptions and change course.

[ken-in-seattle]

38. The same reason Clark gave.

If I remember correctly, he said that he was in the military, and independant and knew if he wanted to have any chance at having enough money to rebuild the Army that had been devastated by the Vietnam war and the draft, he had to vote republican.

Tell us, how old were you during that time and how hard did you work for Mondale?

How many americans who called themselves Democrats voted for Mondale in that election.

The true evil of Reagan only became apparant in hindsite and we are having out noses rubbed in it now by the theofascist he mobilized and the Neocons he befriended.

Hindsight is 20/20

[wyldwolf]

46. more...

..we are having our noses rubbed in it by the high and mighty professional left

[ICantBelieve]

49. I was 16.. and I worked like a dog for Mondale/Ferraro

I actually got to see Ferraro in person in Joliet, Illinois.

AND I LOVE WES CLARK!

It was a different time. Wes Clark had different objectives than I did. You can't require that your candidate have a record that perfectly matches yours.

If you can find a better candidate, VOTE FOR HIM OR HER! But developing a past tense litmus test makes you no better than Republicans who won't vote for a pro-choice candidate.

[Adelante]

84. I did, I did

I voted for Mondale :hi:

[karynnj]

50. As a fellow adult, bad as Carter was Reagan was worse

You also could have voted for Anderson, a moderate/liberal Republican from Rockford, Illinois. Reagan was an attractive person, but I NEVER for a minute considered voting for him. Kennedy in the primary - yes (although as always NJ is too late to make a difference) or Anderson -yes. I came very close to voting for Anderson, because I thought he made a lot of sense, but didn't want to contribute to a Reagan win in a close election.

More relevantly, MUCH was known by 1984 when he ran against Mondale.

Like some others have said, I wish Clark would rune for something - Governor, Senate, House anything and get a real track record, otherwise, I need to give a lot of weight to the only votes he's known to have made. Otherwise, you are comparing one person's goals which can be changed as needed with another's record. I think Clark may be an interesting candidate if he proves himself. (Running against Hillary also may get nasty, as Bill replaced him with someone else. If he is her opponent, this could get nasty in the primaries.)

[Stinky The Clown]

35. I voted not for Reagan but for Bonzo, cuz he wuz cute

And in typical republican fashion, they never wanna deliver until its too fucking late. And when they finally do deliver, its often a bait and switch.

I ask you, does *this* chimp


Look like that cute liddle feller in the top picture?

... I thought not ......

[Name removed]

36. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[cestpaspossible]

37. What an uplifting and inspiring reason to cast a vote.

[Independent_Liberal]

51. For somebody voting for Reagan twice, well...

It all depends. I just have to look back on these things and think. If there was one thing I really admired about Reagan, it would have to be his speaking ability. I mean, he gave damn good speeches!

I have to laugh when I look back at those years he was in office. It was so scary having him in there that it was funny. :)

[deadparrot]

40. You're sickeningly wealthy and have no heart. :) nt

[Name removed]

42. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

47. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Crunchy Frog]

61. Donjo, just so you know, they don't tolerate things like calling

people "assholes" here. I expect you will get your post deleted pretty quickly. I would advise you to take a serious look at the DU rules.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/forums/rules.html

I realize that it can be difficult to avoid becoming intemperate in DU flame wars, but it's important to try.

[Name removed]

69. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Name removed]

70. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[LittleClarkie]

81. It's actually ridiculously pro-Clark

he wins every poll, in case you hadn't noticed.

The occasional negative post does not an anti-Clark board make.

Meanwhile, it appears the good General is tougher than his supporters.

Kerry supporters eat this shit for lunch and then ask for more. "Please sir, may I have another?" Twack!

[wyldwolf]

52. BURN!!!

[wyldwolf]

48. Michael Moore speaks about Wes Clark

..don't be taken in by the professional left!

[dogman]

53. Seems like there is only one excuse. Maybe two.

He would have to have been your best choice or more commonly the lesser of two evils. Personally I didn't vote for him once. I would sure hate to have to come up with an excuse for every other dumb thing I did in my life. That is why I choose not to live in the past. It is the past and I can't redo it. I can only go forward and try to make better choices in the future.

[Sparkly]

54. MOST people voted for the guys who won

And many of those are now Democrats.

There were disagreements in the parties then that address different issues than now, and there were no ultra-rightwing wackos taking over the party with religion and fascist policies as we have now.

I forgive every repentent person who voted for Republicans in the past. I don't see what the problem is.

Here's a problem though: Republicans would be happy to run someone who wasn't even born in this country, who speaks with an accent, and who's married into one of the most famous and well-connected Democratic families in the country. And Democrats are all suspicious about someone who voted Republican YEARS ago.... Unbelievable.

[Skittles]

55. F*** NO - IT IS DISGUSTING

PURE G.D. IGNORANCE

[sharonking21]

56. I have to believe that

a few of you on here (you know who you are and, I think, so does everyone else) who constantly try to attack candidates rather than either further the interests of your own preferred candidates or discuss issues, strategy, tactics etc. are not representative of the candidates or the general run of supporters of the candidates you seem to prefer.

I work here in Austin with the supporters of many different Democrats who ran in 2004. I think most of them would be utterly ashamed of you. We work together. I am reposting the following just as an example. And yeah, I AM better than you. So are they.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=1729653&mesg_id=1729739

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=180x12757

[BurgherHoldtheLies]

59. Wow, did I misread this poll....I thought it was really about Reagan.

Silly me. After reading through the thread I now understand the hidden agenda.

Isn't it more fun to sit and watch the infighting between the Rapturist Right and Corporate agendas of the Republican Party? Seriously.:popcorn:

[FrenchieCat]

65. Obviously not....

It is more important that we put down one of our own...since the one being put down might make another that I will call the "I already lost, but give me another chance to do it again....please" look better. It won't help!

It's juvenile, it's petty, and it's uncalled for.

We've been dealing with Presidents for years...where a vote mainly meant voting for the lesser of the two evils.

What is most ironic...is that all of the Presidential candidates that Wes Clark voted for ended up winning (including Gore). It only shows that he is very connected to the feelings of those in this country. Whatever his reasons were, he apparently was in the majority.

[Adelante]

85. It's Eat a Democrat Day every day here at DU

Yum, yum.

If it wasn't about Clark, it would be another Dem. You never know which Democrat will be on the carving board on what day? :crazy:

[Pithy Cherub]

62. There are no perfect candidates, people or supporters.

There are people who make decisions with the information they have on hand and explain it honestly and forthrightly. Their character commands respect from a wide cross section of imperfect people from a broad range of political ideology.

There are also people who believe in scarcity more than abundance. If an imperfect person's belief is based on abundance a more nuanced and broader coalition may be built. If a belief is in scarcity, then imperfect people have only reasons to eliminate and pare down rather than embrace. There are no candidates that have perfection. There are imperfect candidates that own the fullness and richness of their lives for good and ill. The concern for me is what has a person learned in the imperfection to be the best available.

Be aware of whom you choose to applaud or condemn because that imperfect person and their friends will be needed in the elections ahead.

[Field Of Dreams]

63. Pffft

Flame bait ... it's this type of drivel that will ensure many "Reagan Democrats" remain in the GOP camp and never regain the enthusiasm they once had for the Democratic Party.

(edited for crappy grammar.)

[FrenchieCat]

66. Kerry's wife voted for Republicans too.....

Based on that fact....Should she be sleeping with Kerry now?

[Field Of Dreams]

78. I dunno

by virtue of the logic applied in the poll question, maybe if Kerry has slept with her at least twice, then it could be a problem? :hi:

My party ... "The Ivory Soap Party" if you're not 99 and 44/100 pure, we don't want you!

[LittleClarkie]

82. That would be because she WAS a Republican

but she's feeling MUCH better now.

[TayTay]

86. Loaded question

I know several people who would take her place!

Yes, she should be. She has renounced her former Repub leanings and has claimed that the Repub Party left her. She has now received absolution, done penance (please, did you read her press last year?) and is now singing in the Dem choir. And I like her.

Come to think of it, I like Gen. Clark as well. Why does it always have to be either/or. Why can't I like Gen. Clark, admire the way he supported Dems on CapHill in the last month and still like other Dems? Why can't we all just get along?

[dogman]

71. It's funny it didn't bother McGovern or Carter.

But they're more interested in the betterment of the Democratic Party. That's the difference between leaders and the lost.

[LandOLincoln]

72. Wes Clark, NPR Interview, 12/2/03:

"Well, in the United States Army you never have a party, at least most of us didn't as far as I know. You just voted for people that were strong for national security. When Bill Clinton ran in '92 and I listened to him and I had of course known of his record from Arkansas, I found him extraordinarily inspirational and I voted Democratic. I later ended up working around the White House when I was at the Pentagon. I was back and forth across the Potomac for various staff meetings and so forth. And I was impressed with the people in the Clinton administration . . . . That's when I learned that the old myths were wrong. That it wasn't that the Republicans were tough and strong on defense and the Democrats were soft and blame America. I t was really that the Republican Party had become shrill and partisan and isolationist and the Democrats were working mightily to craft a new strategy to take us into a new world. And that's where I found myself."

[Freddie Stubbs]

73. The Democratic party ran crummy candidates

And the party didn't learn its lesson in 1988, running another lousy candidate.

[LittleClarkie]

80. Not comparable

Kerry was infinitely better than Dukakis. And did infinitely better as well. Some who believe there was fraud might even say he won. Others, who believe that there was at the very least rampant suppression, might say that the Repubs had to cheat and suppress and rat fuck their way into the White House. They wouldn't have pulled out their bag of dirty tricks if they hadn't feared Kerry was a threat. I don't think the GOP ever feared Dukakis, or even Mondale for that matter.

1988 was Bush I, btw, not Reagan. So I'm not sure what point you were making.

[rpannier]

77. I didn't vote for Reagan either time

but the fact is Mondale's campaign sucked big time. I supported Gary Hart in the primaries and the Democratic Party f**ked him every chance they got. The party leaders wanted Mondale. His campaign against Reagan was pitiful. I voted for every Democrat on the ballot except Mondale. I chose not to vote, partially because I knew he was dead in the water.
To anybody who says they can't understand why anyone would vote for Reagan twice I would suggest they were either too young to remember Mondales poor performance, or they weren't paying attention.

[sharonking21]

83. Yeah.

People who take special pains to sow discord, vituperation, and division within the Democratic Party might turn me right off.

[Mass]

87. Not sure

but MA people did that. They voted for Reagan twice. May be it had to do with the Democratic candidates.

[Clarkie1]

96. I didn't know MA voted for Reagan twice.

That's amazing because MA is so liberal. What states did not vote for Reagan? Curious.

[Spider Jerusalem]

88. The only excuse I can think of is:

"I went to the polling place too drunk/drugged to know WHO I was voting for."

[Totally Committed]

89. I have been a Democrat all my life...

I have never missed voting... not even in a municipal election. I did not vote for Ronald Reagan, but would have if I had felt he was the best person for the job.

The Anti-War crowd here will not give Clark a break even though he was against the Iraq War from the beginning. So, who, you might ask yourselves, did these people vote for in the last election? If they voted for Kerry, they voted for a ticket that had two Senators who voted for the IWR, and never revcanted that vote, never said they would have changed their vote (even in light of no WMD found), and then voted to re-fund the war when it came up in the Senate. So, they voted for men who were in support of the war. If they didn't vote at all, they should have less of a say than I do (I voted. Democratic. This is DEMOCRATIC Underground...) So, what are you all, hypocrites or non-voters?

The Anti-Military crowd here will not give Clark a break even though he has proved time and time again that he is a man of intense compassion and integrity. He would use war as a "Last, last last resort." So, who did they vote for in the last election? If they voted for Kerry, they voted for a man with the military in his background. If they didn't vote, or voted for another candidate, they should also shut up about my candidate. At least my candidate is a Democrat, and this is DEMOCRATIC Underground.

The Anti-Clark crowd here will not give Clark a break for a number of reasons. He's a "DINO", he's DLC, he's a "stalking horse for the Clintons", he's without experience, and on and on... yadda, yadda, yadda. He's a DINO: No, Joseph Lieberman is a DINO, and I don't see any factions building against him here. He's DLC: No, in fact he's not. But, if you look at the membership roster of the DLC at the time of the last election, you will see that both Kerry and Edwards were on the DLC roster as members. He's a "stalking horse for the Clintons": this talk will only stop when she runs and he runs as well, so I'll move on... he's without experience: Just this week, he visited Kazakhstan. He was received by the President of that country. Heads of State think he has enough experience to meet with him. He was a "chief negotiator" for the Dayton Peace Accords. He was Supreme Allied Commander (read: COMMANDER IN CHIEF) of NATO. I repeat -- Commander in Chief. There are may other qualifications he has that add up to "experience" up the wahzoo, but still gets no credit... nah, not from them! Why? He's not their candidate. So, who did they vote for in the last election? If they voted for Kerry, and he was not their candidate, they voted for someone they probably badmouthed as much as they are doing now to Wes. Where I come from, we call people like that trouble-makers, and hypocrite fits here, too. If they didn't vote for Kerry, or they didn't vote at all, they are again, not as entitled to their opinion as I am to mine, because I voted Democratic, and this is DEMOCRATIC Underground.

Now, there are some here that know I am decidedly anti-Kerry. I have my own personal reasons for being so, but I voted for him. I voted for him because he wasn't Bush. I voted for him because Wes Clark asked me to. I voted for him because he was the Democrat, and since this is DEMOCRATIC Underground, that should entitle me to voice my opinion as much as (or frankly, more than) the rest of you whiners. Does voting for Kerry when I'm anti-war, anti-DLC, anti-Kerry make me a hypocrite? I uppose, on some levels it does, but the difference is this: you dont see me going around starting anti-Kerry threads, or spamming the pro-Kerry threads that abound here with my own personal mishugas about the man. I rarely, and mostly only if asked, say a negative word about him or any other candidate at all. Why? Because they are all Democrats. And this is DEMOCRATIC Underground.

For the record, Jean Shaheen, Kerry's National Chair, had to finally admit she voted for Reagan (or Nixon... I can't remember, and who cares, they are both Republican, and she voted for one of them) after she called Wes Clark a "Republican" during the Primaries. And she was in Kerry's Campaign! Ted Kennedy's niece is married to the Republican Governor of California. (Ask her who she voted for... and he's a Republican.) James Carville, "Mr. DNC", himself, goes home and gets into bed every night with a woman who has served in the Bush Cabinet, and whose rhetoric is some of the most anti-Democratic bullshit this side of Ann Coulter. (Ask him how they conceived two beautiful children together. It may not involve voting for a Republican, but we sure do know he's done his bit to procreate with one.) Are any of these people less Democratic because of their dalliances with the RNC? If you can say "no" to even one, it's time to stop the anti-Clark bullshit here and now.

So, for me, it's put-up-or-shut-up time here at DEMOCRATIC Underground. Is it DEMOCRATIC Underground or not? Wes is a Democrat. If you read up on his positions ( www.securingamerica.com ), you will see he's probably as much or more of a Democrat than most of the people you lionize as leaders of this very Party. The likes of Mario Cuomo and George McGovern have both praised him highly as a liberal of the first order. If he doesn't get your support, he should still get your respect. And, threads like this are disrespectful, mean-sprited, and anti-DEMOCRATIC.

Just remember, they could have called this place PROGRESSIVE Underground, or GREEN Underground, or MILITARY-HATERS Underground, or ANTI-WAR Underground, but they DIDN'T! So, as long as it's called DEMOCRATIC Underground, Wes and his supporters have the right to be here, post here, vote in polls here, and demand the respect we all show the rest of you and your candidates. Wes Clark is a proud Democrat. And we are proud of him. END OF STORY.

TC

[Field Of Dreams]

95. Cheers!

:toast:

Thanks for taking the time to write that.

[BootinUp]

90. Can you think of a good reason to post flame bait directed

at a Democrat that is not even running for office?

:eyes:

[markus]

94. Dead and buried in Illinois or Louisiana

or any number of other places.

So, Alphonse and Gaston were sent out to take down all the names of folks down in the cemetary so they could be voted. They needed to get 50 names.

So, about the end of the third row, they get their 50 names, Gason says, "hey, we got our 50 names, let's get back.?"

Alphonse turns to Gaston and says, "but Alphonse, the rest of these people got just as much right to vote as these 50 do."

[Moderator]

97. I'm locking this thread

reason :

Flamebait