Democratic Underground Latest Greatest Lobby Journals Search Options Help Login
Google

Want Unity? Other Democratic Leaders must join Pelosi and Reid...

Printer-friendly format Printer-friendly format
Printer-friendly format Email this thread to a friend
Printer-friendly format Bookmark this thread
This topic is archived.
Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 12:30 PM
Original message
Want Unity? Other Democratic Leaders must join Pelosi and Reid...
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 12:31 PM by Q
...in making sure that the investigation into the Bush administration's response (or lack thereof) to the Katrina Disaster is not rigged like the 9-11 Commission.

The Bush Pirates are depending on the party's leadership to go in different directions on this investigation. Let's disappoint them for once by having the entire Democratic leadership in the House and Senate work in concert to see that justice is done.

Any Democratic leader participating in this Bush/Cheney sham of an investigation will lose all remaining credibility.


-------------

Reid, Pelosi Oppose Bicameral Katrina Committee

By Erin P. Billings and Mark Preston
Roll Call Staff
Thursday, Sep. 8; 11:35am

The top Congressional Democrats announced their opposition Thursday to the creation of a GOP-led bicameral committee to examine federal, state and local relief efforts in the wake of Hurricane Katrina.

Calling it a sham and a charade, House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) said she will not appoint anyone from her Caucus to the joint committee. And Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid (D-Nev.) will urge his Democratic colleagues not to serve on the panel, a senior aide said Thursday morning.

Democrats said they are frustrated that Republican leaders announced the formation of the committee Wednesday afternoon without first consulting them on the matter.

http://www.rollcall.com/issues/1_1/breakingnews/10402-1... ??

Note: this is a subscription service.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 12:48 PM
Response to Original message
1. And...sadly here's WaPo & Un-named Dem Strategists answer to you....
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 12:49 PM by KoKo01
Posted by DU'er right here on this page. :-(
--------------------------------------------------------------------


flpoljunkie (1000+ posts) Thu Sep-08-05 08:54 AM
Original message
Dem strategists join GOP in criticizing the "strident" response of Dems


Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 09:00 AM by flpoljunkie

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/20...

Other Democrats, lead by Senate Minority Leader Harry M. Reid (Nev.) and House Minority Leader Nancy Pelosi (Calif.) have been far more strident than the Clintons -- so much so that both Republican and Democratic strategists said yesterday the opposition party is in danger of overplaying its hand. The harsh rhetoric, the strategists said, could create a backlash among the public and engender sympathy for a president who has been on the defensive much of the past week.

<>Clinton allies say anger over FEMA's performance and a belief that the Bush administration has harmed the agency motivated the senator to jump into the debate. From a purely political point of view, they say, it might have been wiser to maintain a lower profile.

Having raised her visibility, she is now a clear target. "It's interesting that at a time when she could have differentiated herself from the ranks of Democratic National Committee Chairman Howard Dean and Nancy Pelosi and the far left ranks of the Democratic Party, she chose to join those on the front ranks of the blame game," said RNC spokesman Brian Jones. "It would have been interesting if she had shown some level of restraint."


_____________________

So, craven Democratic strategists are again trashing our own and falling into the trap set by Ken Mehlman and his lame counterpart at the White House, Press Secretary Scotty McClellan, who has extensively used the "blame game" meme to a hilarous extent. (John Stewart did a great spot on this last night--showing a parade of Rethugs, including Dubya using the phrase.)

I applaud Hillary Clinton for speaking out against the incompetence of this administration and their marginalization of FEMA. I hope she continues to do so.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 12:54 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Why would any Democrat...
..not want Bush to be held accountable?

BushCo has gutted...not only FEMA...but nearly every other government entity with a mandate to help or protect the people.

If Bush/Cheney are allowed to get away with covering up yet another crime or misdeed...it will make it that much easier for them to complete the rest of their anti-democracy agenda.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 01:03 PM
Response to Reply #2
3. if bush is the ONLY target ...
i'm in total agreement with you that every Democrat damned well better hold bush accountable !!

but i think this is the time to "go large" and fight against a broader target ... bush is a lame duck anyway ... with midterms just over the horizon, his own party will increasingly move against his strident extremism ....

the hurricane disaster has taken all the pieces on the chessboard and thrown them up in the air ... the status quo is in flux ... "but where it lands, nobody knows" ...

again, i'm 100% for targeting bush and taking him down ... i agree it will weaken the republican party and their greedy corporatist agenda ... but it will weaken it them even more if we go after more than just bush ...

we need to spell this out for the American people is straight-forward, simple details ... the bad guys believe in "every man for himself"; Democrats believe that Americans are all one "family" ... we believe the Federal government is there to promote the best interests of its citizens and NOT to have them fend for themselves when disaster strikes our country ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 02:12 PM
Response to Reply #3
7. This is the best opportunity Democrats may have to rally the troops...
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 02:12 PM by Q
...against this administration.

Iraq is too distant and the Bushies have full control over the 'news' coming out of the region.

But the Katrina Disaster hits home...it's happening right now in the US. It's an emotional issue with REAL HUMAN BEINGS being shit on by the Bush pirates.

This whole thing exposes the underbelly of the Bush/Cheney/Neocon beast.

Here we have Pelosi and Reid showing some leadership...leading by example. What better opportunity for Kerry, Clinton and others to take advantage of the momentum and get a real investigation going?

You're correct in saying that Bush can't be the only 'target'. The emphasis can easily be on the investigations and WHY THIS ADMINISTRATION IS NOT PREPARED TO HANDLE AN EMERGENCY after so many years and billions of dollars.

We'll never have another opportunity like this. The story is alive and America is listening.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 02:29 PM
Response to Reply #7
8. even broader still ...
i look at this kind of like a domino theory ...

the first domino is bush fucked up with the hurricane response ... the next domino is that bush is insensitive and was off playing his guitar ... the next domino is that bush was off fundraising and playing partisan politics while Americans died ... the next domino is to broader the message and show, as you stated perfectly, that "THIS ADMINISTRATION IS NOT PREPARED TO HANDLE AN EMERGENCY" ...

but the message should be even broader still ...

the next domino is the reason "THIS ADMINISTRATION IS NOT PREPARED TO HANDLE AN EMERGENCY" is because the republican ideology does not believe government can solve problems ... it believes that the government should not reach into your pocket and "steal your hard-earned dollars" ... it believes that everyone is on their own ... it's a perfect survival of the fittest ... so the next domino is to show the utter bankruptcy of an ideology that fails to view ALL Americans as part of an American family ... it fails to see us as part of a society that watches out for all of our citizens; especially those most vulnerable to the effects of a catastrophic event like the recent hurricane ...

and then, the big enchilada, the last domino in the line, is the campaign to teach Americans the real reason behind the "small government" ideology ... small government is NOT what the hurricane victims need ... small government is being pushed by a corporatist-elite ruling class because they don't want government's interference in their greedy pursuit of profits ...

i've written the following in another thread today but will repeat it here because it is THE LAST DOMINO:

why would BIG BUSINESS want a smaller, less effective government?

because THEIR INTERESTS are NOT the best interests of the American people ... they don't want pollution controls ... they don't want product safety legislation ... they don't want worker safety laws and minimum wage laws ... they don't want class action lawsuits ... they don't want oversight and monitoring agencies ... they want "FREE" enterprise, i.e. they want to be FREE TO DO what is in the best interests of their largest stockholders and FREE NOT TO DO what is in the best interests of the American people ... they are nothing but greedy little piggies playing in the dirt ...

the "REAL ENEMY" has infested our government ... the BP is absolutely right to say that the "propaganda" they use is a laundry list of reasons that big government is ineffective and small government is better ... but this is merely the tool they use to weaken the only power, i.e. the US government, that would be able to restrain their "profits before people" actions ... the "tool" they are using is an enemy to be battled BUT the REAL ENEMY is the infestation of our government and the weakening of our democratic institutions by greedy corporatists ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ProudDad Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 09:57 PM
Response to Reply #8
24. I think the first domino
was Iraq.

The real enemy IS the corporations and the evil system that spawned them.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 03:26 PM
Response to Reply #8
35. In order to accomplish these goals...
...you're going to literally have to work outside the Democratic party to do it. Either that..or remove the top leadership...or begin a grassroots movement within the party to change the leadership.

It just so happens that the DLC also believes in the same kind of trickle-down economics as the Neocons/RWingers. They just take a kinder approach and throw a few more bones to make the people believe they still live in something resembling a democracy.

And there is absolutely no sign that the corporate media is going to finally start reporting the truth.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 01:16 PM
Response to Reply #2
4. And here's what Mike McCurry said about Dems:
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 01:18 PM by KoKo01
Comments from the "Black Commentator"
http://www.blackcommentator.com/149/149_freedom_new_orleans_demise_of_democrats.html

Not only do they refuse to fight, but they aren’t shy about admitting their cowardice. Party leadership boldly states for the record that they will continue to support a president whose policies have now become a liability for his own administration. They repeat John Kerry’s losing talking points as if they were religious scripture. Hillary Clinton, the likely nominee in 2008, advocates sending more troops to Iraq. Only one Democratic Senator, Russell Feingold, has publicly called for a withdrawal of American troops.

The rest make baffling appeals to their fellow Democrats to stay on the sinking ship. “The smartest thing Democrats can do is be supportive,” opines former Clinton press secretary Mike McCurry. It has to be an historic first for a political party to make a conscious decision not to kick an opposition that is on the ropes.

In the face of the New Orleans disaster Bill Clinton, still the party leader, decided to cheapen himself yet again and fetch the stick when the Bushies threw it. On the same day that the Mayor of New Orleans begged for help and thousands of refugees told horror stories of being left to fend for themselves without food, water or adequate sanitation, Bill Clinton agreed to hang out with Bush 41 and raise corporate cash.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #4
5. Democrats only understand "Chicken in Every Pot" and "Health Care for
All." They've forgotten that the only way they are going to achieve that legislation now is to go after the Corporate Whores who are the ones keeping every American from Health Insurance and Food on the Table and what soon will be heat in their homes and gas in their car.

They didn't stand up against the very thing that put Bush into Power and Poppy and Reagan before them. It's Corporate Alliance with Government and the Military. It's the PNAC vision of Imperialism. It's the Crookery and Theivery of Wall Street Looters and Boards of Directors who allowed a huge Dot Com Bubble because it helped Clinton's Presidency and helped them line their own pockets. To be fair Clinton vetoed the rape of the SEC Rules that would have pricked that Dot Com Bubble, but two leading Democrats over-ruled him. Dodd and Lieberman. There were other things Clinton did stand with that held off what the Repugs wanted to ram through...but by the end of his administration everyone was too inbed with the Corporatists to try anymore...and there was Monica.

But, Dems have got to start hitting back where it hurts the Repugs even if it hurts themselves or we aren't going to have a Country left that's worth living in. These are dire times...and frightening times for those of us who've been around here awhile.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 01:42 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. thank you, KoKo01
"They've forgotten that the only way they are going to achieve that legislation now is to go after the Corporate Whores" ...

this is EXACTLY the problem ... the Democrats' agenda should NOT be criticized for what IT DOES CONTAIN ... "chicken in every pot" and "health care for all" deserve our absolute support ... i have no problem whatsoever with those themes ...

but, the Democrats' agenda should be criticized, and it will fail, because of what IT DOES NOT CONTAIN ... we have got to target the REAL ENEMY; not "just" a laundry list of bad policies the republicans are pushing ...

and the REAL ENEMY, as you have very articulately cited, is the "Corporate Alliance with Government and the Military. It's the PNAC vision of Imperialism. It's the Crookery and Theivery of Wall Street Looters and Boards of Directors ..."

thanks for your excellent post !!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 10:08 PM
Response to Reply #2
25. They're not "Democrats?"
:think:
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
paulk Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 10:23 AM
Response to Reply #1
33. who are these unnamed Dem strategists who fit so neatly
into the Republican spin? And why should we believe anything the WaPo says?

Following the usual MSM/Republican strategy, any Democrat who dares to speak out against the Bush Admin is made the focus of the story rather than the criticism made being the focus. They have been doing this for four years now, with the WaPo being one of the main water carriers.

Isn't it fascinating how in the article it's all tied right in to a statement from an RNC spokesman?

Don't believe these people. They lie. They lie with an agenda of dividing Democrats against each other.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Hidden Stillness Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 02:50 PM
Response to Original message
9. Fuck the Framing--Fight!
With Nancy Pelosi's statements over the past couple of days, this is the first time I have been actually thrilled and excited about her--she has been fabulous! Everybody must know that the situation is now way too serious, horrible and tragic, to fuck around with by playing the PR blame game, as Republicans do, or the sabotage-the-Democrats/"too liberal for America" routine of the "D"LC--God help us!

Something changed after this hurricane, maybe the worst ever to hit the U.S., and its grim, worsening aftermath; now, I believe, if you don't attack Republicans for what they have done and how they sabotaged, over a period of years, any Democratic attempts to fortify the levee system in (Democratic) Louisiana, that you are actually also culpable here. There are many ways of "fiddling while Rome burns," and one of them is to vacation and party with the rich people, the way Bush always does, and another is to finesse your consulting career or position your "D"LC corporate club for the media, when the time has come to fight for the destitute, desperate victims. Go Pelosi, Reid, Ted Kennedy, John Kerry, John Conyers, and all those who help us all!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #9
10. the cancer has spread ...
if we only attack it where it is most visible, we will win the battle but lose the war ...

your call to "Fight!" is perfect ... but the battle must be for the big picture of bankrupt republican anti-American policies ... their callousness in failing to respond to the hurricane can be the flagship, i.e. the symbol, of their bankrupt ideology ... but the target has to be broader than that ...

the hurricane response should be the kindling but a real fire will require all the other logs ... this is the time to make "the big case" ... the nation's attention has a long history of being very short-lived ... i'm afraid that in the very near future, the next "media madness" will distract us ... soon we'll be talking about someone taking a shot at bush or a kidnapped American being threatened with torture or the death of some Hollywood personality or, maybe even the Roberts hearings ...

the hurricane has highlighted the utter bankruptcy of the republicans' anti-government beliefs ... we DO need to make a powerful case against their miserable handling of the response ... but we need to tie that case to broader themes and fight like hell to use the advantage we've recently gained to take the whole thing down ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 04:21 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Pelosi is scaring the shit out of the Neocons and DLCers...
...with her no-mincing-words language. They're so frightened that they're sending out talking points from anonymous 'strategists' attacking her from the shadows. They're afraid that what Pelosi is saying will catch fire with the docile public and stir them to action. Even worse for them...her words could inspire other Democratic leaders to join her in finally opposing and exposing the most corrupt government in American history.

The worst disaster meets the worst president. It's time to take our party and country back from the small group that took control of both parties in 2000.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
ElsewheresDaughter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
12. absolutely
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 04:52 PM
Response to Reply #12
13. Where is that group on DU always calling for unity?
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 04:53 PM by Q
Here's our chance to unite behind a cause that benefits...not only the Democratic party...but the American people.

Homeland Security is a fraud. It's a front for corporations like Halliburton and pirates like Bush and Cheney to plunder our treasury and turn our country into a banana republic.

Making FEMA part of the fraud was the final insult to the American people.

It's up to the Democratic party to be the loyal opposition and put an end to this once and for all.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 05:29 PM
Response to Original message
14. So...I guess this call for unity...
...was really a call to fall behind the DLC and their strategy to protect Bush from meanies like Pelosi?

It's getting rather tiresome watching someone like Pelosi confront Bush directly on important issues...only for the rest of the leadership to run off like scared children.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 05:42 PM
Response to Reply #14
15. I guess Pelosi isn't considered seriously because she doesn't have
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 05:44 PM by KoKo01
power, she's a female and unlike Condi doesn't have a "back up."

It's a sad state we are in. But, I have to say I think Pelosi, fine as she is, isn't the kind of spokesperson we Dems need at this point to WIN.

I know DU Females would jump all over me on this, and defend her to the death but if one wants a female then we need a tough fighter. Barbara McCulsky (although she drifts rightwards) or someone who doesn't say like Pelosi said: (I'm out of it because my daughter got married and haven't been following what's been going on.") She said this when Dick Durbin was being hounded by the Right Wing this Summer.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 06:29 PM
Response to Reply #15
16. Why can't the Democratic party unite for the sake of the...
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 06:30 PM by Q
...American people? What could be more worthy than that?

It took four years...but I'm finally convinced that the DLC is intentionally trying to divide our party and cull the more progressive Democrats (and those who speak out against Bush) by encouraging other 'new' Democrats not to support them when they demand accountability.

Brave Dems like Pelosi are left to swing in the wind and made to look like they're lone, 'partisan' nutcases without support from the rest of the party.

How many times have we witnessed this now? Conyers or some other Dem brave enough to confront the Bush criminals...only to be ignored by other leaders in the party?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
KoKo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 08:40 PM
Response to Reply #16
19. True, if Pelosi or the others
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 08:43 PM by KoKo01
had "back up." I understand what you say.

I'm not sure that Pelosi would be helped greatly by back up but she should have had it. As should all Dems who speak up. But, the party is so fractured the RW can see it and so can the Media. The Black Caucus holds together with a small group of Progressives who try. I wish Pelosi would support "them" more than she has. She assumes her role is to bring people together rather than to lead. That's my problem with her, aside from her bringing her "personal life" into her job.

But, joining with the DLC for UNITY and holding our nose anymore...just won't work. I know you understand that.

It's a dilemna.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 08:54 PM
Response to Reply #19
21. The DLC is working against us...
...so there can be no unity with them.

But I'm wondering where the REST of the party stands on confronting the corrupt BushCO?
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
welshTerrier2 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 12:50 AM
Response to Reply #21
29. working the "back channels"
"But I'm wondering where the REST of the party stands on confronting the corrupt BushCO?"

the DLC IS INDEED working against us ... in the end, i think they are PNAC'ers although i doubt they would admit it ... they may share some common values with us but i see them as hawkish imperialists ...

for too long, they have been able to divide the Party's moderates and the "democratic wing" of the Party ... the truth is, most moderates do not support Hillary's view of prolonged war in Iraq ...

the new unity you seek, if we're able to achieve one, will be between left and center ... the DLC has to go ... their views will never reconcile with the rest of the Party ... if they stay, we all lose ...

the approach to building unity, for those who care to try, is to try to build support among the moderates for the two key policy objectives we hold ... first, end the war ... the good news? the longer the war drags on, the more differences between left and center disappear ... something like 75% of the American people, let alone Democrats, now oppose the war ... so the gap between left and center is almost gone on this issue ... that's no small thing ...

and the other key issue is the corrupting influence of big oil and other oligarchies on our government ... how many self-described moderates want to see more pro-business legislation while the oil companies set record profits and gas prices soar? how many moderates want more corporate welfare for the pharmaceutical industry when millions can't afford badly needed life-saving medications and have to leave the country to get the drugs they need? how many moderates believe an energy policy that ignores conservation, gives $14 billion to the oil industry, and relaxes clean air standards with all the warnings we've had about global warming and peak oil is good policy?

the point is, with a little work, i believe we can get the candidates supported by Party moderates to adopt many of the views progressives hold ... the problem i see is that we're running out of time for the midterms ... the goal i seek right now is enhanced communication between left and center ... i truly believe our differences have been more about tactics and less about policy differences ...

bush is going down and more moderate Democrats are becoming increasingly emboldened ... the confrontation with the corrupt BushCo may be just around the corner ...
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 09:23 AM
Response to Reply #29
32. The problem remains: the DLC is in control of 'our' party...
...and for right now they're calling the shots. Kerry, Lieberman and Clinton are DLC and by listening to their public appearances and 'policy statements'...it's clear that they're staying with the 'new democratic' agenda of appeasing Bush and maintaining the facade that he's simply a 'bad' president...not a corrupt banana republic dictator.

The ONLY way Bush is 'going down' is if the DLC stops protecting him. Agreeing to 'stay the course' in Iraq, increase troops and the defense budget while ignoring war profiteering gives Bush's war the kind of 'legitimacy' that he needs to cover his ass.

There is no way to know as of yet if the DLC-controlled Democratic party will finally expose and demand the prosecution of the corrupt Bush WH. I'm betting against it because in many ways they have as much to hide as the Bushies.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 06:47 PM
Response to Original message
17. Q
You are F&^%^ing awesome!! I would love to add you as the first member of my buddy list if you would let me.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 07:30 PM
Response to Reply #17
18. Welcome to the 'old' party of the people...
...where we strive to remember that politicians are also public servants and that they work for us.

Go ahead and add me to the list...but I'd rather that you go a bit further and add your opinion to this thread.

And welcome to DU.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 09:17 PM
Response to Reply #18
23. oops
No star, therefore can;t do it. Well, that at least proves I've never tried it before. Opinion included down-thread.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 08:53 PM
Response to Original message
20. Well, these folks all appeared at the news conference today
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 08:54 PM by TayTay
to denounce the Rethugs plan to hold a sham investigation and refuse to participate unless the commission becomes real and is allowed to do a real investigation.



(L to R) Sen. Debbie Stabenow (D-MI), Sen. Mary Landrieu (D-LA), Sen. John Kerry (D-MA) (obscured in background), Democratic Minority Leader Sen. Harry Reid (D-NV), Sen. Byron Dorgan (D-ND) and Sen. Richard Durbin (D-IL) walk outside the Senate Chamber to a news conference September 8, 2005 in Washington. Democrats in Congress are questioning the Bush administration planned probe of the failings in the response to Hurricane Katrina. REUTERS/Jason Reed
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 11:09 PM
Response to Reply #20
27. So...they're 'questioning' Bush's planned scam of an investigation?
What does this mean exactly? And what will they do if Bush proceeds? Will they 'boycott' with Pelosi?

Simply 'questioning' is not enough. They have to back up their words with action and follow through.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
TayTay Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 09:01 AM
Response to Reply #27
31. Ahm, what action backs up not showing up
for a hearing? You show up or you don't. If you don't, this non-action takes away credibility from the investigation exposing it as the partisan sham it is.

Sometimes action is non-action.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 10:34 AM
Response to Reply #31
34. And sometimes non-action is avoidance...
Edited on Fri Sep-09-05 10:36 AM by Q
Afterall...we've seen lots of 'non-action' by the Democratic leadership over the last four years. What has it wrought? It brought us an imperial presidency and an untouchable 'president'.

Bush has broken laws and trusts that would have made Nixon blush.

Democrats must go on the offense and become proactive. Not simply refuse to show up at sham hearings...but demand that offending parties are investigated and prosecuted. They need to show Bush that there are CONSEQUENCES for breaking the law.

This is about so much more than Bush's response to Katrina. It's about stolen elections and secret, shadow governments and Downing Street memos and war profiteering and illegal, aggressive wars and a 'war on terrorism' against Iraq instead of bin Laden.

The Democratic leadership has consistently failed to serve the people and protect and defend the Constitution since 2000 and before.

It's time they make amends.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 09:14 PM
Response to Original message
22. My opinion on this matter
Edited on Thu Sep-08-05 09:15 PM by Zodiak Ironfist
I agree. For once, the Democratic leadership within Congress is calling for a better investigation than the Bush scam that has been proposed. They are ready to fight, and so it is time for us progressives, liberals, and labor populists to join with the leadership on this issue.

If the blue dogs and the DLC decide to take a different tack (as has been alluded to in a WaPo article today) and back off, we will get a crappy commission where the Democrats are only present to rubber stamp the results. The WaPo will not name those "strategists", will they? I sure would like to know.

So it is put up or shut up. Either the call for unity when the Democrats ran behind a tree from the Bush juggernaut were for the sake of fighting for another day, or they were subversive and designed only to stifle the opposition. There is no arguing that now is the time to fight...any call for backing off, to me, is the words of a party mole.

As I have said on another thread, this is the time to take names and hold our own accountable. Get rid of this monster now or become extinct along with him.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Thu Sep-08-05 10:45 PM
Response to Reply #22
26. There is a reason why the 'strategists' aren't named...
It's because their message is meant as a warning for Democrats that might cross the line and go too far...actually putting up more than a token effort to hold Bush accountable.

Sometimes politicians put on a show for the masses to make it appear as if they're really interested in righting a wrong or making government accountable to the people. But they never really intend to accomplish anything beyond showing up to fill a seat.

This is exactly what's been going on for the last four years. The 9-11 commission being the most recent example of a predetermined outcome of not holding the Bush administration responsible for sleeping on the job as America was attacked with......box cutters. The Democrats on the commission were there only for show...to give the appearance of bipartisanship. But it was a sham from the beginning...considering that the Dem side agreed not to investigate the Bush White House.

Here's hoping it will be different this time.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Zodiak Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 12:23 AM
Response to Reply #26
28. Correct me if Im wrong
But it is my understanding that Bush was the one who got to pick both sides of the commission. I remember that, during the hearings, the Democratic questions were oftentimes softballs. There were precious few "shining moments" during the commissions public hearings, and they actually allowed Bush testify not under oath behind closed doors with uncle Dick.

After the whole matter was done, Bush tried to deny time to the preparation of the report, redacted some of the report when it came out, and the report nevertheless left more questions unanswered than it answered.

Now, when the Democrats allowed such a sham to occur, they ended up giving it legitimacy. Even some on our side of the fence adhere to the 9/11 Commission report as if it were some sort of gospel (and the recommendations were questionable, imho).

I am glad that our leaders in Congress see the pitfalls ahead for investigating Katrina. Finally, they have awakened to the fact that glad-handing Bush is a recipe for disaster. Bipartisanship is date-rape, to quote some RWer I can't remember.

Still, I want to know who these stratgists are. Either they do not want to be named (for being pigs fearing a populist element gaining ground in the party) or they do not exist. After all, it isn't the first time the "some people say" argument has been used as a propaganda tool.
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
Q Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri Sep-09-05 08:31 AM
Response to Reply #28
30. The Dems on the 911 commission gave everything away...
...because they agreed to unfair and probably illegal terms before the hearings and 'investigations' began. Democrats gave the Bush WH everything they demanded.. excluding Bush and Cheney from any kind of scrutiny and allowing them to 'testify' behind closed doors and without being under oath. In the end...Bush and Cheney were able to 'classify' any of the evidence and report that tended to incriminate them...including references to Saudi Friends of Bush financing of terrorism.

After this...the Bush Pirates knew they had the Democratic party cowed and that they could get away with practically anything.

Although it's a good sign...I'm not yet convinced that the Democratic leadership will go any further this time than last. They like to huff and puff but never seem to get down to the meat of the matter: making someone accoutable for mistakes and misdeeds and prosecuting them if laws were broken.

I believe these strategists exist. They always seem to pop up when Democrats get too uppity and start to demand that someone be held responsibile. They are the same political hacks that have protected Bush since 2000.

Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
NVMojo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat Sep-10-05 12:35 AM
Response to Reply #30
36. KICK!
Printer Friendly | Permalink |  | Top
 
DU AdBot (1000+ posts) Click to send private message to this author Click to view 
this author's profile Click to add 
this author to your buddy list Click to add 
this author to your Ignore list Mon May 13th 2024, 05:06 PM
Response to Original message
Advertisements [?]
 Top

Home » Discuss » Archives » General Discussion: Presidential (Through Nov 2009) Donate to DU

Powered by DCForum+ Version 1.1 Copyright 1997-2002 DCScripts.com
Software has been extensively modified by the DU administrators


Important Notices: By participating on this discussion board, visitors agree to abide by the rules outlined on our Rules page. Messages posted on the Democratic Underground Discussion Forums are the opinions of the individuals who post them, and do not necessarily represent the opinions of Democratic Underground, LLC.

Home  |  Discussion Forums  |  Journals |  Store  |  Donate

About DU  |  Contact Us  |  Privacy Policy

Got a message for Democratic Underground? Click here to send us a message.

© 2001 - 2011 Democratic Underground, LLC