lawyers, help a clueless layperson: unindicted co-conspirators...

[Lerkfish]

what does that mean?
If Bush and cheney are labeled unindicted co-conspirators by Fitzgerald, does that mean they cannot be charged or punished for the crime? Are they immune to prosecution then, or can they still be prosecuted, but can be targets without warning?

sorry to ask a dumb question.

[mikelewis]

1. Not a dumb question at all - Kicked

I'd like to know too.

[shraby]

3. I believe it means that they have an office

in government that precludes their being indicted for a crime. I'm not sure about v. president, but the president ostensibly can't be indicted, but must be impeached. Co-conspirator would mean that they were involved in the conspiracy/crime. Therefore unindicted co-conspirator.

[Sanity Claws]

2. I don't do criminal work but my understanding is that

Fitzgerald cannot indict Bush and Cheney because they are not subject to criminal prosecution for acts committed in office. Instead, the remedy would be impeachment through Congress. (The Supremes allowed Clinton to be sued in a civil matter regarding actions that took place before he became office; thus, that is not precedent for criminally prosecuting Bush and Cheney here.)
However, even if unindicted, they would be part of the conspiracy and could be used to tie events and persons together to show the existence of the conspiracy.

[SeattleGirl]

4. If that happens,

I wonder if Bush would be "happy to sit down and have a chat" with the judge and jury. Remember when he told Tim Russert that he would be happy to chat with the 9/11 commission? Sheesh!

[mikelewis]

8. If he was involved... Sorry, since he was involved...

Wouldn't Congress have to Impeach him? How could they not? Well, I know it's Congress but even they have to worry about open rebellion.

[Sanity Claws]

9. The evidence of Bush and Cheney's involvement coming out

in a criminal trial would make it very hard for even the Repub Congress to ignore it. The entire house is up for election in 2006. Do the Repubs want to look like they're harboring a criminal?

[SeattleGirl]

11. I know some of them are getting nervous,

and I read a news item yesterday about a Repubican candidate -- sorry, I don't remember her name -- who said she was loyal to her president, Ronald Reagan. The item also said some other Republican candidates are backing away from Bush. Not that I could ever imagine myself a Republican, but if I were (and not a neo-con), I would want to stay away from BushCo.

[texpatriot2004]

17. Yeah, I heard about her too. Can't remember her name though.nt

[texpatriot2004]

16. Correct, I have said before that if the Congress can begin

impeachment on Clinton for lying under Oath then this lying lunatic * must be impeached for doing so much worse. If not, if they didn't impeach * then our government has ceased to function. IMHO.

[DoYouEverWonder]

5. Apparently it is still questionable

Whether or not a sitting President and/or VP can be indicted while in office.

Nixon resigned after he was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the the Watergate break in.

Agnew was indicted but I think it was after he resigned has VP.

Of course, the freepers wanted to indict Clinton but Clinton managed to avoid getting indicted when he made a deal with the prosecutor on the last day he was in office (at least that's what I remember).

I do believe that they can indict the VP but it would be up to the prosecutor if he would try to test the system and indict Bush or just name him an unindicted co-conspirator and leave it to Congress to impeach Bush instead.

[Sanity Claws]

7. Agnew was indicted for actions taken when he was

governor of Maryland. It did not concern his actions as VP.

[DoYouEverWonder]

12. That's not the issue

The issue is whether or not he was indicted while he was VP or after he resigned. I believe he resigned before the actual indictment came down, though he already knew that he was in trouble.

[Sanity Claws]

13. Here's a link

http://www.senate.gov/artandhistory/history/resources/pdf/spiro_agnew.pdf

It states that Agnew defiantly said he was not going to resign even if indicted. Thus, both Agnew and the prosecutor apparently thought he could be indicted.

He later changed his tune. He entered into a plea bargain with the prosecutor and then resigned.
It appears that the indictment step was skipped.

[DoYouEverWonder]

14. Thanks for the info

I didn't think he had been indicted while he was VP, so once again the question remains open about whether or not you can indict a sitting Pres or VP.

However, I remember seeing something about John Adams being indicted while President, but I'm not sure?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

6. Nixon was named an unindicted co-conspirator in the Watergate scandal.

And we all know how that turned out. Let's hope history repeats itself.

[Inland]

10. Most broadly....

it takes more than one person to commit a conspiracy, and sometimes they do not charge all the conspirators, such as, the one that has made a deal and turned states evidence. Those are uncharged co-conspirators.

I can see how Bush or cheney could be conspirators who can't be charged. Yet. I think Kenny Starr's opinion was that an indictment against a sitting president can't be handed down, or if handed down must remain sealed, or something.

[1932]

15. That's my understanding too.

If you charge only one person with a conspiracy crime, there's sort of a logical vacuum -- how can only one person commit a conspiracy crime? The legal term for the consipirators is "unindicted co-conspirator."

I think another issue, as far as the law is concerned, is that whether someon is actually a consipirator requires a legal determination. Once you're convicted, you're a consipirator. Before you're convicted, you're charged with consipiracy. So what do you call people you never intend to indict (or haven't yet indicted) whose existence needs to be established for a consipiracy conviction of your target? Well, you can't call them consipirators if they haven't been charged and convicted of conspiracy. You can't call them "alleged consipirator" because you're not trying them, so you're making no allegations about them. I guess you call them "unindicted co-consipirators" because it sounds like it supports the prosecutors case against the person who is indicted.