The only thing that baffles me about Hillary supporters.

[lynch03]

Is the belief that her candidacy is viable. She will never in a million years win in the general election. How many people do you know that are on record professing that they will NEVER vote for her in a million years. You can say this is anecdotal b.s. but the polls have also indicated this. There are many people who have a strong, irrational hatred towards her. It's a feeling that cannot be explained, nor reasoned with. These aren't always Republicans either. I don't get it, but it's true. You know who these people are.

[2rth2pwr]

1. The polls? How did the polls do tonight? nt

[Anouka]

5. How many reps vote straight ticket versus dems?

I guess that's one type of poll.

How organized are Republicans to back their candidate, any candidate, even Huckabee, before they put Bill and Hillary back in the White House? I have no idea, but I don't think it's very many at this point in time.

[Egnever]

They did great except in one specific matchup

odd that no?

[David Dunham]

2. McCain is an old man who will lose.

[Eurobabe]

6. I agree with you there

McCain is just ossified.

[peace13]

8. I wouldn't be so sure of that.

There will be very little if any Repug cross over vote to Hillary if crazy Mac is running. Repugs will go for him. I don't know any R that would even consider Hillary. I myself would not consider voting for Hillary. I know that is forbidden to say here but let's be frank. Her position on the war is awful and she takes money from the King of FOX. How can one reconcile that? I may have to eat my words but my conscience would not be clear. Peace, Kim

[RummyTheDummy]

22. Every angry white male 40 and up

In a mustard stained wife beater will drop whatever they're doing to vote AGAINST her in the GE. They're less likely to do that with Edwards, or Obama for that matter. More likely to go bowling than vote. There's just something about her that inspires this visceral reaction from these people.

I don't get it all, but it's out there and it goes back 15 years. I think she's a great person, even though I will not vote for her.

[Barack_America]

26. I think you could lower that to "24 and up"

It doesn't take long for mustard stains to start accumulating on those wife beaters! lol

[RummyTheDummy]

30. You're probably right

You know it's a long haul when a white woman inspires more hatred than a black and a trial lawyer among the moron masses.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

42. How did you know about the mustard stains?

Clinton, Edwards, Obama, a yellow dog, a garden gnome.

Whichever wins the Democratic nod, gets my vote.

I can go bowling AND vote.

:hi:

[SharonAnn]

51. Ah, but there are more women voting than men. So, if your explanation

is correct, then perhaps the wives and daughteres and mothers of these men will vote for Sen. Clinton.

After all, we've had plenty of men whom "nobody" in the opposite party would vote for.

These men that you're describing wouldn't vote for any Democrat, no matter what.

[Barack_America]

68. The wives and daughters of these men hate Hillary just as much.

For even more perplexing reasons.

[girl gone mad]

23. Yeah, and..

Bush was a complete moron former cokehead frat-boy draft dodger who would lose, then an insane war criminal who would lose.

The problem is that we Democrats keep picking sure losers.

[pnwmom]

3. The polls put her ahead of all of the Rethug candidates.

All she has to do is take one more state than Kerry, and there are several possibilities in the midwest alone -- her original tromping grounds.

[flyarm]

24. since when? In iowa the national polls showed the only one to beat all repigs nationwide was Edwards

when did that change?

eom

[dmallind]

47. Which is irrelevant if she takes OH - where she is well ahead NT

[peace13]

52. Thanks for that.

I'm from Ohio and hadn't heard. In fact haven't heard from Hillary at all. Talked to Obama people several times. Peace, Kim

[dmallind]

55. Sure I understand - but anecdotes do not equal data

and teh issue is GE electability no? If (and it's if very much at this point) Clinton is the nominee she only nbeeds to hold Kerry states and take one decent or two small EV states. OH of course is a big one and is solidly Democratic in current (admittedly distant from November 08 but it's all we have) polls regardless of whetehr the nominee is Obama or Clinton.

So in other words it doesn't matter if you haven't heard from Hillary. It doesn't matter if nobody in OH has heard from Hillary yet. It doesn't even matter if OH votes for Obama in this round. It only matters who they would vote for in putative GE matchups - and both BO and HC would win OH if polls are even vaguely realistic.

[peace13]

62. Very scientific.

If you think Ohio Rthugs are going to vote for Hillary in a GE you are dreaming, won't happen, but time will tell. It doesn't really matter what the polls are telling you. Agree to disagree on this one.

[dmallind]

65. Sure but ...they don't have to

Ohio Democrats and independents will vote for her. Do you honestly see ANY Rep winning OH after it's suffered so much from Bush and there is no Blackwell to save the day?

[peace13]

67. I work at the polls in Ohio,

stood on the State House steps with 100 other people who tried to wake the country up after 2004 was stolen here and I listen to my Repug friends. That is what I base my opinion on. Anything is possible. I know that SOS Brunner is trying to make changes but the last change was an option to use a paper ballot that would be optically scanned. After seeing the NH video of the scanner dupe I am beginning to wonder about the security of that as well. Ohio shows promise but I would never take it as a given. Peace, Kim

[dmallind]

72. Sure - and I have OH statistical polls

http://time-blog.com/real_clear_politics/2008/01/oh_poll_only_mccain_can_defeat.html

McCain's resurgence is troubling I confess - but as you can see is not Clinton-specific. I also doubt he's the nominee.

Despite isolated polling snafus, they are more compelling than anecdotal self selected samples.

The question remains the GE. The possibility is OH will decide it. My contention is Clinton or Obama can both win OH in the GE.

[peace13]

73. Clarification...Election Polls! n/t

[dmallind]

76. Yes - the GE is the subject under discussion here. That's the poll to use for this purpose. NT

;kl;l

[peace13]

79. Wow.

[dmallind]

80. In what way wow?

The poll results are surprising to you? They actually surprised me a little - it was better a while ago. I suspect in the GE it will widen out some. I know not all voters are coldly rational but I just can't see OH going Rep - McCain or otherwise. Course we're talking ten months to go here - wo much can change.

[babylonsister]

4. How odd-I don't like her either, but I'm a heathen. nt

[Carolina]

7. Thank you

she is the candidate with high negatives.

And to those who say look at the polls v what happened in NH tonight, I say simply NH ain't the US

Repukes hate her and many Dem women over 50 like me can't stand her either! And it has nothing to do with her gender, or the media piling or the excuse du jour.

It's about IRAQ!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

11. Don't Vote For Her Then...I'll Bring A Homeless Person To The Poll To Replace Ya

~

[Carolina]

15. be my fucking guest

[CyberPieHole]

20. Ha!

What a great reply. :toast: to you, DSB.

[flyarm]

25. nothing new..her campaign brought drunks..fully drunk to the caucuses!!

they thought they could just fill out absentee ballots snd get their $$ and leave...one even said he was having a sugar attack so he could get his pay and leave!!

nothing new here..move along..seems someone is using roves playbook..we saw the repugs doing this in 2004 in FL....our party has now become the enemy of itself!

fly

[Egnever]

36. you saw this happen personaly?

or can link to it?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

45. I Was Being Facetious

Sadly, the post you responded to is the canard the Republicans say we play every election...

[bvar22]

81. Easy to find a homeless person....

...the Clinton "Welfare Reform" put more of them on the street.

[regnaD kciN]

12. Not to mention...

It's about IRAQ!

It's also about Kyl-Lieberman. And about "No Insurance Company Left Behind." And about "lobbyists are people, too."

And about the same sort of arrogant entitlement we already have enough of in the White House.

[regnaD kciN]

9. There are also...

There are many people who have a strong, irrational hatred towards her.

...many people with a strong, completely rational dislike of her.

[William769]

10. Whats really odd is that we just had a Primary where she won and your still trying to use that meme.

BTW, we know who you are.

ON EDIT: And if you look at it in that context, whats that saying about Obama and Edwards?

[donheld]

13. I think you're dead wrong

Look who she'll be up against. She can beat anyone of them.

[Tracyjo]

14. a co-worker of mine went to see Obama with me

She swares she'd vote for Huckabee before Hillary.
Go figure.

[Hardrada]

19. I know a LOT of people like that. And these are repugs or

moderates. Then there are the antiwar Dems and rads who remember how HRC more or less sneered at Cindy Sheehan. No votes for HRC from them either.

[Webster Green]

16. Any of the dems will win the presidential election..

We'll see if they are allowed take the office though. That's been the tough part of the last two presidential elections.

Where is Rove these days anyway?

[terisan]

17. I find that if I ask the simple question: "why" it helps people confront and deal with their

irrationality.

I expect that as we learn the full extent of our national impoverishment people may just be interested in a viable solution.

[Venceremos]

18. Truth be told....

I used to dislike Hillary, but now I'm a supporter and really want her to win the presidency. I think as more people start to listen to her, their irrational dislike for her will evaporate. At least that's what happened in my case.

As for her viability, just look at the pathetic Republican lineup -- wack-job McCain, flip flopping Romney, the preacher, and the guy from Law and Order. I don't see how any of them can beat her in the only poll that matters.

[flyarm]

27. no their dislike will not disapate.

i knocked on doors in Iowa for Edwards and i heard over and over at dem residences..anybody but Hillary!

and there was no doubting their dislike of her!

it was rabid.

fly

[Venceremos]

33. Where in Iowa

do you live? I'm asking because we live near the IL-IA border.

No matter if people dislike Hillary - I still can't see how any of those laughable Republicans will win in November. I've never seen such a freak show. I didn't think they could do any worse than Bush, boy was I wrong.

[flyarm]

63. i don't live in iowa..i was a volunteer ..going door to door for Edwards passing out materials

and door after door of Dem's were saying the same thing..and it was most prominent with men..they were over the top with Anybody but Hillary.

venomous is more like it..

fly

[Barack_America]

34. This is true for the ENTIRE midwest, not just Iowa

I've lived with this bizarre "Hillary is the antichrist" sentiment for the last 16 years of my life. It is powerful and it will keep her from being elected.

[RummyTheDummy]

38. Sorry, but that's naive

And that's you're right to be that way, but the American public has been exposed to Hillary for 15 years and she has extremely high negatives. I believe a lot of the venom is irrational, but clearly it's there nonetheless.

[Barack_America]

21. This is a BIG part of my decision to back Obama.

Hillary is simply unelectable. Look at the independent vote in NH if you need further proof. Who do you think these votes would go to in the general election? Not Hillary, that's for sure. Savor her primary win in the NE, but you all are going to be in for a shock when the primaries swing into areas of the country where these sentiments run high. It's going to be Iowa over and over again.

Sorry, but getting a Democrat in the WH is priority number one for me, and Hillary just isn't going to get it done.

[BootinUp]

28. The irrational Clinton haters will not decide the election.

And they are not the majority of her of negative rating. The majority of her negative rating are folks who can be swayed by a national campaign in a GE run by the best politicans in our party.

[ieoeja]

66. What about the rational haters?

- Don't Ask, Don't Tell
- Defense of Marriage Act
- NAFTA
- Occupied southern third of Iraq through first Clinton presidency
- Ignored Afghanistan
- Ended Welfare
- Merger Mania
- Media Consolidation
- Failed on Health Care
- Firearms Ban (based on looks, not function)
- Shutdown Democratic Party offices in the states
- Lost control of House for first time since Great Depression

Worst possible thing we could do for the Democratic Party is to nominate another Clinton.

That first one was a betrayal and showed unbelievable political cowardice. The first Clinton was elected while promising to let gays serve openly in the military. It was part of a winning campaign, yet they still lacked the fortitude to keep that promise.

[BootinUp]

78. welcome to politics!

Open your eyes and compare the candidates and their records in an honest fashion. You will find Hillary is no centrist. Furthermore Bill C served as President during probably the strongest time of the conservative movement that began in the 70's and did accomplish the vast majority of his goals as he promised in his campaigns. Far to many fail to factor that into their feeble anti-Clinton screeds. Really though, don't bother with a reply, I have little patience for holier than thou "progressives" who apparently can't see that all the major Dem candidates are proposing nearly identical programs and have voted very similarly in the past.

http://www.perkel.com/politics/clinton/accomp.htm
http://liberalslikechrist.org/about/Clinton.html

[harmonicon]

29. whatever

I don't like Clinton, but I think polls are shit, and people can't say who they would or wouldn't vote for this far out, unless they're hard-line repub or democrat. What I do like about Clinton supporters is that they aren't apologists like many Edwards and Obama supporters are (for the record, I would be much happier to see Obama win than Clinton or Edwards - just the reasons I see for backing him are sometimes silly).

[Tactical Progressive]

31. Strange night to be touting what the polls say, don't you think?

Hillary will clean up.

[Egnever]

39. not really go back and look at them

they were pretty close to spot on except when it came to Obama and Hillary.

[MrSlayer]

32. I'm afraid PA goes red if she's the nominee.

If she's facing Romney or maybe Huckabee she probably squeaks it out but McCain or Rudy beat her here. That's 21 huge electoral votes. I just don't feel that Philadelphia and particularly the suburbs will come out for Senator Clinton the way they came out for Kerry last time.

[Barack_America]

35. Michigan certainly will. Without a doubt. n/t

[goldcanyonaz]

37. Dream on. Michigan will vote for Hillary.

We have property in the suburbs and she is well liked there.

[Barack_America]

69. One of the white collar suburbs, right?

Because the blue collar, union suburbs hate her.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

43. Michigan? Depends on the weather ...

I think Democrats turn out to vote if the weather is nice. Republicans turn out to vote "irregardless" of weather (thanks for the word, Huck).

Michigan will need a good "get out the vote" strategy, especially in the deep-blue counties (Wayne, Washtenaw, Marquette, etc)

[Barack_America]

70. Hillary is the GOPs GOTV Strategy

And I don't think the Dems could come up with one to counter it.

[Triana]

40. I said it in another thread and I'll say it here - in the GE, she's toast..

...I believe - because the Repukes have been chomping at the bit for DECADES to take her on. THEIR hatred for her is the absolute worst. I doubt she can survive the GE.

John Edwards is the only one who it is shown - can beat every Republican that might win the nomination.

If Hillary is the nom (as much as I admire her) - it will be Republican prez for another 4-8 years. She's a powderkeg in that way.

People need to realize that may be what we're up against and think about that really hard.

[Pachamama]

41. I'd say 90% of the Dems I know don't want her, every Republican I know who would vote Democrat this

time around won't if its Hillary and meanwhile what really convinced me she has no chance:

I have spent the last 7 years hearing my Brother in Law, a staunch Democrat, disgusted by what Bush and the GOP have done to the country and how we need a Democrat for President, only to say over the Christmas holidays when we were all together, that there is no way, no way ever he will vote for Hillary Clinton. I said not even if it meant President Huckabee or Ghouliani? Not even he said. I said what about the economy, what about a woman's right to choose....Not even...He kept repeating himself over and over - that there is no way, no way ever he will vote for Hillary. End of story. He wouldn't elaborate but he was very clear on how he felt. All I know is that there are so many people like him out there.

[Perry Logan]

44. For some reason, anti-Hillarites think everyone shares their distemper. But it's obviously not true.

[Dawgs]

53. Everyone I know shares my distemper.

Oh, also 60% of the people on DU are anti-Hillary.
And, so is 50% of the general population.

[MethuenProgressive]

46. "the polls have also indicated this" Don't you guys ever learn?

:rofl:

[NashVegas]

48. Your Know What Baffles Me?

Lurkers who only come out of the woodwork to bash Democrats during primary season and piss off other DUers.

You're right though, I do have a pretty good idea who they are. :hi:

[ecstatic]

49. People with "irrational hatred" for Clinton are out of touch and don't matter

Thank goodness.

[Dawgs]

54. "People" = 15-20% of Democrats, ALL Republicans, and most Indys

[LostinVA]

50. My Republican father used to loathe Hillary

He was one who thought she murdered Foster. :eyes:

Guess who my Dad said he liked, and who he would vote for if she has the nom? HRC.

I've said that on here quite a few times the last year, so this isn't some story to prove a point.

Hillary can win the GE. I also think Edwards and Obama might be able to.

[goldcanyonaz]

64. That's a great vote for Clinton to have too.

[Evergreen Emerald]

56. This argument was debunked in NY when she ran TWO TERMS and won

against Republicans.

The poll numbers regarding "negatives" are notorious for their roller-coaster changes. Bush had higher negatives than McCain, and beat him. Bush had higher negatives than Gore and won.

The history of these polls show one thing: you cannot trust them.

Kerry was reamed by the repugs. And democratic candidate will be. Clinton has been reamed for decades--billions spent on investigating with a repug investigator and nothing was discovered, except a bj.

[jasmine621]

57. The only people saying this are the people who know and fear that she

really could win it all. Most people are sick and tired of Republicans. The rash of new voters that Obama and Edwards are bringing into the polls will not turn against any Dem candidate who is nominated. It's only when we begin to repeat the talking points the MSM has set out there that we make our candidates less viable.

[Evergreen Emerald]

58. The democrats have been coming to the polls in huge numbers

This is akin to the March on Washington. They will hear us now!!

[Barack_America]

77. So have the independents and they're not voting for Hillary...

In the primaries they're voting for Obama. In the general election, however, most will vote for the Republican candidate.

[BootinUp]

84. Making a choice between 2 Democrats Is Not equal to

choosing between a Dem and a Repuke.

[Barack_America]

86. Sure it is. When giving one the Dem nom, guarantees a GOP Victory. n/t

[ButterflyBlood]

61. New York ain't a swing state

Hardly the best measure.

[Barack_America]

71. We're not talking about New York...

We're not even talking about the Northeast. We're talking more about the middle of this country. And the feelings towards Hillary haven't changed there much. Like it or not, but the Northeast doesn't run this country and it certainly doesn't dictate who the "rest of us" should vote for.

[Taverner]

59. Why is it then that in both the caucus and primary that Hillary got more votes

Than all of the GOP candidates combined?

Not viable? Bah.

Both Obama and Hillary are viable. It is the GOP that is not this election.

[RoadRage]

60. Yup.. i hate to say it - but I think this is very true..

Most of my independent friends/co-workers and even a couple of Republicans are considering hopping the fence to vote for Obama.

But, I know of 3 Democrat co-workers who will either sit home, or vote for the Republican (depending on who gets the nomination) before touching HRC.

I'll vote for her if she wins the GE, but it looks like I may be going to the polls all by myself. Ehh.. not totally true.. i'll drag my husband along and he'll vote for her too if he knows what's good for him. ;)

[Renew Deal]

74. Just look at the situation with indies.

She's a guaranteed loser.

[BenDavid]

75. remember now you have left leaning and right leaning indies.

Those left leaning must have given hrc some support yesterday.....

[THUNDER HANDS]

82. the silent majority will vote for her

I had another person at work today tell me they're rooting for her.

These are people who are never polled because they don't donate to candidates and generally stay under the radar.

I think she could absolutely win if she's the nominee.

There's a silent majority out there ready to vote for a woman president. I honestly believe that.

[BeyondGeography]

85. And then what?

Trouble for her is how does the actual governing part work when half the country won't even listen to you.

[bvar22]

83. NONE of the National Polls are valid.

All of them calculate only a Head to Head matchup.
None of them factor in a the effect of a 3rd Party challenge.

Nominating a conservative "Business Friendly" candidate (Hillary or Obama) will catalyse a challenge from a 3rd Party AntiWAR/ProLABOR Populist candidate that WILL peel off a good percentage
of AntiWAR Democrats and MOST of the Independents.

HillBama is counting MILLIONS of votes that they won't be getting in the GE.