Is obama pro choice? I just found out he was pro death penalty and there's nothing on the web site.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

I frankly have no idea :shrug:

[Dawgs]

1. Oh shit. Not this again.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

4. just asking for a yes, or a no, and a link

.

[pampango]

11. Just noticed today that there is a lot that Proud2BAmurkin doesn't know

about Obama. At least he seems to be asking questions and attempting to learn. ;)

[IndianaJones]

2. He is pro-choice at this moment, but, he feels there is a possibility he may be wrong.

His religious values and all.

[EffieBlack]

70. Let's look at what Obama actually said on the topic:

From "This Week," August 15, 2004:

Stephanopoulos: Ambassador Keyes's answer to the carpet bag argument seems to be that he's acting in the spirit of Illinois's favorite son, Abraham Lincoln, he is going to save unborn lives in the same way that Lincoln freed the slaves. Where does the analogy break down?


Obama: "What he is assuming is that the women of America who want to have some control over their bodies are equivalent to slaveholders. And obviously the women in America don't feel that way. They feel that these are extraordinarily intimate issues that they've got to make decisions on in consultation with their families and their ministers and their doctors. The second thing is that, you know, from an African-American perspective, I think that the notion that somehow African-Americans are equivalent to fetuses no matter how well developed because Mr. Keyes's position, I think, is that life begins at conception . . . I as a Christian might agree with that, but if I agree with that, it's based on a religious premise, and not one that I think is subject to scientific proof. And so Mr. Keyes's willingness I think to draw those easy equivalents is out of the mainstream I think of how even those who are disturbed by abortion would think about it.
. . .

"{Y}ou know, I'm a Christian. I attend church regularly with my family, and that faith informs what I do. But I think what we have to do is argue about the nature of our faith in a pluralistic society. You know, my faith is one that admits some doubt that says that I believe in Jesus Christ, and I believe in God, but I also recognize that part of my job as a Christian is to recognize that I may not always be right. That God doesn't speak to me alone, and that the only way that I can live effectively with people who have different beliefs and different faiths is if we have a civil society, that is, in fact, civil. And, you know, that really is a central difference between myself and Mr. Keyes on a lot of these issues, whether it's abortion or gay rights, you know, Mr. Keyes, I think, feels the certainty of a prophet, you know, somebody who's got a direct line into what God thinks, and I guess I think to myself, you know, I have to struggle a little bit more and admit a certain human fallibility and not assert my, my unyielding confidence that I always know the truth."{/b}

Anyone have a problem with that?

[jonnyblitz]

3. He is "present". nt

[bunnies]

5. Stop pretending you give a shit what Obamas policies are.

Just start every thread with "I hate Obama" and get it over with already.

[Proud2BAmurkin]

7. give me a link and shut me up then

?

[bunnies]

10. A link wont shut you up.

We both know that.

[pampango]

16. On the other hand, it would get him to move on to his next "I didn't know ... about Obama" topic

a little more quickly. ;)

[bunnies]

......

:rofl: :spray: :rofl: Thanks. I needed a good laugh today! :hi:

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

15. Here

http://www.latimes.com/news/politics/la-na-abortion6jan06,1,5832930.story?track=rss

Now shut the fuck up.

[madrchsod]

34. jesus christ on a stick

not this crap again....the illinois chapter gives him 100%..actually they worked with him to use that "vote" to block the rabid right wing in illinois.

before you tell people to shut the fuck it`s best to do a little research on the subject..

[cali]

24. If a link would shut

your charmless trap, I'd give you one, but you've become notorious for your endless hit jobs. Know what I love? I love that you're so fucking worried about Obama. I just love it.

[xultar]

12. They should be discusse though, agreed?

[bunnies]

46. Of course! But by those who are actually interested.

I know that you know the difference between a genuine concern and just trying to stir shit up. I'll have a real conversation with anyone. But thats not what this OP is.

[msmcghee]

6. Read this one . .

"The Abortion Vote the GOP is Planning to Use to Bring Down Obama"

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/01/the-abortion-vo.html

I have no idea what this site is. It just popped up when I googled "Obama abortion"

[Captain Hilts]

8. The Republican Gov. of Illinois suspended the death penalty there. Obama's in favor? Verification?

This is interesting.

[IndianaJones]

31. Audacity of Hope. nt.

[NYCGirl]

39. Here's an article about Obama's work on reforming the DP Laws in Illinois:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/POLITICS/11/12/obama.death.penalty.ap/

Barack Obama can honestly claim to have made a difference on a matter of life and death.

While an Illinois state senator, Obama was key in getting the state's notorious death penalty laws changed, including a requirement that in most cases police interrogations involving capital crimes must be recorded.

The changes enacted in 2003 reformed a system that had sent 13 people to death row, only to have them released because they were later determine to be innocent or had been convicted using improper methods.

"Without Barack's energy, imagination and commitment I do not believe the very substantial and meaningful reforms that became law in Illinois would have taken place," said author Scott Turow, a member of the state commission that recommended many of the changes.

-snipped-

Obama saw the issue of police interrogations as key.

Among the men released from death row "a consistent pattern was the faulty confession," argued Obama. "It struck me that this was the hardest piece of the puzzle but the one that would ultimately make the most difference and have the most long-lasting effect."


And here's the full quote from his book:

While the evidence tells me that the death penalty does little to deter crime, I believe there are some crimes--mass murder, the rape and murder of a child--so heinous that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment. On the other hand, the way capital cases were tried in Illinois at the time was so rife with error, questionable police tactics, racial bias, and shoddy lawyering, that 13 death row inmates had been exonerated

Source: The Audacity of Hope, by Barack Obama, p. 58 Oct 1, 2006

[Captain Hilts]

41. Thanks! nt

[Proud2BAmurkin]

44. Obama supports the DP. He believes in executing caged people.

I think he's probably proud of his DP position.

[NYCGirl]

49. He also believes in saving lives. Glad to know you've developed the ability

to read people's minds, even though you've never met them. Quite Fristian!

[AndyA]

9. I read earlier that it is on his website, but it's buried and difficult to find.

But I do believe he is pro-choice.

[cmaff05]

13. Don't let facts get in the way of a good rant

http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Crime.htm

+While the evidence tells me that the death penalty does little to deter crime, I believe there are some crimes--mass murder, the rape and murder of a child--so heinous that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment. On the other hand, the way capital cases were tried in Illinois at the time was so rife with error, questionable police tactics, racial bias, and shoddy lawyering, that 13 death row inmates had been exonerated

+Obama's most significant contribution has been his legislative battles against the death penalty, and against in the criminal justice system. In Illinois, it's been a series of shocking exonerations of innocent people who are on death row. He was involved very intimately in drafting and passing legislation that requires the video taping of police interrogations and confessions in all capital cases. And he also was one of the co-sponsors of this very comprehensive reform or the death penalty system in Illinois, which many people say may trigger the retreat on the death penalty in many other states.

[Orangepeel]

14. Yes

Supports a Woman’s Right to Choose:
Barack Obama understands that abortion is a divisive issue, and respects those who disagree with him. However, he has been a consistent champion of reproductive choice and will make preserving women’s rights under Roe v. Wade a priority as President. He opposes any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court's decision in that case.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/womenissues

[Proud2BAmurkin]

33. Finally. Thanks eom

eom

[superduperfarleft]

17. Here's a tip:

Just because you think it doesn't mean you have to say it.

Or maybe we could have one thread where you could just do you best Rain Man impression all in one place as opposed to spamming the board?

[babylonsister]

26. 'Rain Man' impression - you've got that right!

Someone had to say it! :thumbsup: The OP is either very young and ignorant and is trying to start a flame war: the other option is lazy as hell and wants someone to do his research. Either way, he/she is boring. :boring:

[CyberPieHole]

18. He's "present" as per usual...Obama can't bother his "pretty head" and make a decision...

that way he can go back and pander to his hateful bible~thumpers and beg for their support.

:kick: and recommend for this great post. I love it.

[cali]

27. I would never lie

about your candidate in the revolting way you lie about Obama. Disgusting.

[madrchsod]

36. i take it that you also feel the same way about hillary

[CyberPieHole]

42. What? Is Clinton pro~choice? Of course she is. Is that NEWS to YOU?

:crazy:

[jefferson_dem]

19. Did you *really* look on his website, Amurkin?

Really? :shrug:

[gateley]

20. Here's what I found:

Rated 0% by the NRLC, indicating a pro-choice stance. (Dec 2006)

Battles legislatively against the death penalty. (Jul 2004)



http://www.ontheissues.org/Barack_Obama.htm

[NYCGirl]

21. Abortion rights activists back Obama

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/07/abortion_rights_activists_back.html

Barack Obama was the favorite presidential candidate in an Internet poll of supporters of Planned Parenthood Action Fund, an abortion rights group that also places a heavy emphasis on other reproductive health issues such as sex education and access to contraceptives.

Obama received votes from 42 percent of those who voted, besting rivals Hillary Clinton and John Edwards. Members of Planned Parenthood were invited to vote after Obama, Clinton and Edwards' wife Elizabeth spoke at a forum last Tuesday in Washington. The speeches were posted on the group's web site and members were allowed to vote through Friday, a spokeswoman said.

[cali]

22. 100% rating by NARAL

why I'm answering one of your moronic transparent hit piece posts, I have no idea.

you're another poster who drastically lowers the collective IQ around here.

Oh, and unsurprisingly, you're too dim to find anything on his website- it's either that or you're being disingenuous.

[Nailzberg]

23. How many times can you post your feigned surprise at Obama's death penalty position.

You know he's for the death penalty.

You've been given links and evidence that he has fought for reform on the death penalty to ensure civil rights of the accused are not violated during interrogations.



Perhaps you haven't seen the 8000 posts citing Planned Parenthood and NARAL's support of Barack Obama as 100% pro-choice. And as far as nothing on his website, I found this in 30 seconds.

REPRODUCTIVE CHOICE
Supports a Woman’s Right to Choose:
Barack Obama understands that abortion is a divisive issue, and respects those who disagree with him. However, he has been a consistent champion of reproductive choice and will make preserving women’s rights under Roe v. Wade a priority as President. He opposes any constitutional amendment to overturn the Supreme Court's decision in that case.

Preventing Unwanted Pregnancy:
Barack Obama is an original co-sponsor of legislation to expand access to contraception, health information and preventive services to help reduce unintended pregnancies. Introduced in January 2007, the Prevention First Act will increase funding for family planning and comprehensive sex education that teaches both abstinence and safe sex methods. The Act will also end insurance discrimination against contraception, improve awareness about emergency contraception, and provide compassionate assistance to rape victims.

http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/womenissues

[Wickerman]

25. Google be your friend

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/shared/bsp/hi/elections/us/08/issues/html/democrats.stm
Speaking at a Democratic debate in April 2007, Mr Obama said he trusted women to make their own choices on abortion "in conjunction with their doctors and their families and their clergy".

I found many links that said the same. Wouldn't it be easier to simply search it rather than stir shit for the sake of stirrin... uh, nevermind... :think:

Anyway, if you actually do care about stances, here is a nice, at a glance table:

http://www.2decide.com/table.htm

[flpoljunkie]

28. Indeed, it would, but, as we all know, that is not the point of Proud2BAmurkin's posts.

[Renew Deal]

29. To put it nicely.

I'm having a hard time not saying go fuck yourself.

[babylonsister]

32. Ditto that. nt

[MadBadger]

38. I'm almost ready to add another to the small ignore list I keep

Almost.

[Occam Bandage]

66. And what makes you think he cares about stances? This has to be

his dozenth "concern" regarding Obama today.

[Bread and Circus]

30. 100% here read this if you are serious (which I doubt you are)

Fact Check: Obama's Strong Pro-Choice Record
January 08, 2008

ILLINOIS PRO-CHOICE LEADERS AGREE: OBAMA'S PRESENT VOTES ON CHOICE WERE "LEADERSHIP VOTES"

Lisa Madigan, Illinois Attorney General: "It's Just Plan Wrong To Imply That Voting Present Reflected A Lack Of Leadership...In Fact, It Was The Exact Opposite." "Lisa Madigan, the Illinois attorney general who was in the Illinois Senate with Mr. Obama from 1998 through 2002, said she and Mr. Obama voted present on the anti-abortion bills. 'It's just plain wrong to imply that voting present reflected a lack of leadership,' Ms. Madigan said. 'In fact, it was the exact opposite.'"

Steve Trombley, CEO And President Of Planned Parenthood/Chicago Action Said They Worked With Obama To Implement Legislative Strategies In Illinois Protecting A Woman's Right To Choose. Steve Trombley "said there's a reason his organization has endorsed Obama throughout his political career. 'Senator Obama has been a consistent supporter of reproductive rights while in the legislature and we worked closely with him in developing and implementing legislative strategies to protect the rights of women in Illinois.'"

Pam Sutherland Confirmed: Planned Parenthood Says Obama's Present Votes On Choice Are "Leadership Votes." "'We at Planned Parenthood view those as leadership votes,' Pam Sutherland, the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, told ABC News. 'We worked with him specifically on his strategy. The Republicans were in control of the Illinois Senate at the time. They loved to hold votes on 'partial birth' and 'born alive'. They put these bills out all the time . . . because they wanted to pigeonhole Democrats...Sutherland said Obama approached her in the late 1990s and worked with her and others in crafting the strategy of voting 'present.' She remembers meeting with Obama outside of the Illinois Senate chambers on the Democratic side of the aisle. She and Obama finished their conversation in his office. 'He came to me and said: 'My members are being attacked. We need to figure out a way to protect members and to protect women,' said Sutherland in recounting her conversation with Obama. 'A present vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted.'


IL POLITICAL OBSERVERS AGREE IT WAS A LEGISLATIVE STRATEGY FROM THE PRO-CHOICE COMMUNITY

Chicago Tribune's Eric Zorn: "Disparagement Of Obama Votes Doesn't Hold Up." Under the headline, "Disparagement of Obama votes doesn't hold up," Eric Zorn wrote, "Obama's 'present' vote on that bill is one Hull is attacking him for in a flier decorated with rubber duckies. Sutherland just laughs. 'We also had Emil Jones, Lisa Madigan, Miguel del Valle, Rickey Hendon and other very strong pro-choice legislators voting `present' on that one,' she said. 'It was all done to pull "present" votes off the fence.' Obama confirmed Sutherland's account of the legislative strategy and said, 'No one was more active to beat back those bills than I was.' 'Criticizing Obama on the basis of "present" votes indicates you don't have a great understanding of the process,' said Thom Mannard, director of the Illinois Council Against Handgun Violence."

Miller: "Maybe Only A Few Members Of The Tribune Contracted Remember This Ploy, But I Do;" Planned Parenthood "Was Encouraging 'Present' Votes By Some Of Their More Loyal Members In Order To Encourage The Moderates To Vote That Way As Well" To Combat Republican Tactic Of Breaking Moderates Away From The Pro-Choice Movement. Rich Miller wrote, "Maybe only a few members the Tribune contacted remember this ploy, but I do. It was specifically designed by Planned Parenthood to counter Republican Senate President Pate Philip's barrage of hot-button abortion bills that he was continually trying to ram through the Senate in 2001 and 2002. The Tribune missed the point. Besides passing bills he supported, Pate's idea was to cause a controversy by splitting 'moderate' Democrats away from the abortion rights groups, thereby causing a rift on that side, and, more imporantly, to put some political targets on the hot seat. So, as they also did in the House a few years back, Planned Parenthood was encouraging 'Present' votes by some of their more loyal members in order to encourage the moderates to vote that way as well."


CLINTON'S PRO-CHOICE SUPPORTERS PREVIOUSLY PRAISED OBAMA FOR HIS LEADERSHIP ON CHOICE

EMILY'S List Called Obama's Remarks "A Rousing Call To Arms, And A Touching Reminder Of Why We Are Doing Everything We Can To Make A Difference By Electing Pro-Choice Democratic Women." EMILY'S List Insider News reported, "It's difficult to pinpoint the highlights from this year's 15th annual Majority Council Conference on May 11 and 12, because there were so many!..This year's conference was held in conjunction with "Change," our Washington, D.C., luncheon with more than 1,100 members from the across the country. Illinois Sen. Barack Obama headlined the event. His remarks were a rousing call to arms, and a touching reminder of why we are doing everything we can to make a difference by electing pro-choice Democratic women."

Malcolm Thanked Obama For Participating In The EMILY's List Lunch, Said He "Really Lit A Fire With Our Members! Thanks So Much!!" A letter from Ellen Malcolm to Barack Obama read, "Thank you so much for helping to make the 2006 EMILY's List Majority Council Conference such a great success. Our Majority Council members told me again and again how energized they were to hear directly from you and how much they appreciated your spending time with us. You truly inspired our members and reminded them why they support our work to elect dynamic pro-choice Democratic women - especially after hearing you speak about how you're fighting to make change happen. I appreciate your commitment to EMILY's List. Here's to victory in November! Warmest regards, Ellen R. Malcolm, President (Handwritten: You were terrific and really lit a fire with our members! Thanks so much!!)"


OBAMA RECEIVED 100 PERCENT RATINGS FROM CHOICE ORGANIZATIONS

Wendy Frosh, Chair of Planned Parenthood of Northern New England Praised Obama's Leadership on Choice Issues, Citing His 100 Percent Rating From Pro-Choice Groups. "Hi, this is Wendy Frosh, chair of the board of Planned Parenthood of Northern New England. As people have begun to rally around Barack Obama's call for change, the false attacks have begun. But as a leader and activist for reproductive rights for more than 20 years, I know the facts. Barack has a 100 percent pro-choice record and has always been a champion for women's rights. Hillary Clinton's last-minute smears won't protect the right to choose, but as president, Barack Obama will."

2006: Obama Received A 100 Percent Rating From Planned Parenthood In 2006.

2005 Obama Received A 100 Percent Rating From NARAL Pro-Choice America In 2005.

2003: Obama Received A 100 Percent Rating From Illinois Planned Parenthood Council In 2003.

2002: Obama Was Endorsed By The Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, There Were No Number Ratings Available.

2001: Obama Received A 100 Percent Rating From The Illinois Planned Parenthood Council In 2001.

97-98: Obama Received A 100 Percent Rating From The Illinois Planned Parenthood Council For 1997-1998.


ADDITIONAL PRAISE FOR OBAMA'S PRO-CHOICE RECORD FROM ILLINOIS PRO-CHOICE LEADERS

Former Illinois Senator and current Illinois Attorney General Lisa Madigan: "When Barack and I served in the Senate, it was not uncommon for groups to adopt a legislative strategy of having like-minded lawmakers vote 'present' rather than yes or no. When it came to protecting a woman's right to choose, for example, Barack and I voted present as part of a strategy devised by pro-choice advocates. It's just plain wrong to imply that voting present reflected a lack of leadership. In fact, it was the exact opposite."

Lorna Brett, former president of Chicago NOW: "I am a supporter of Hillary Clinton and an EMILY's List donor, but this line of attack is unacceptable. While I was the president of Chicago National Organization for Women, Senator Obama worked closely with us, could not have been more supportive of a woman's right to choose, and there was no bigger champion in Illinois on our issues. What's important is that the candidates do not cannibalize each other on issues we all agree about because we need to win in November."

Steve Trombley, CEO & President, Planned Parenthood/Chicago Action: "During his years in the state legislature, Barack Obama was a strong and consistent supporter of women's reproductive rights. He worked hand-in-hand with Planned Parenthood in developing and executing strategies to make sure that women had access to reproductive health care. I also want to thank him for standing up with us in the effort to open the Aurora clinic and for his introduction of legislation guaranteeing access to low-cost birth control. Planned Parenthood/Chicago Area has proudly endorsed Barack throughout his entire political career."

"Barack has always supported a women's right to choose and has a 100% pro-choice rating from Planned Parenthood. Barack has always voted to support our strategy as we worked to defeat anti-choice legislation. That is why we have supported him in every previous election."

Pam Sutherland, President & CEO of Planned Parenthood Council: "The present votes Obama took at that time, along with many other pro-choice legislators, were 'no' votes to bad bills being used for political gain. We asked Senator Obama and other strong supporters of choice to vote present to encourage Senators facing tough re-elections to make the right choice by voting present, instead of caving to political pressure and voting for these bad bills. In the Illinois State Senate, Obama showed leadership, compassion and a true commitment to reproductive health care. The Republican Senate President at the time constantly used anti-abortion bills to pigeon-hole Democrats so that he could target them with misleading mailers during campaign season. It was a tactic that was about politics, not policy - and Obama didn't let them get away with it."

"Barack has a 100 percent pro-choice record. The present votes he cast were part of a legislative strategy that we designed specifically to protect abortion rights. Barack's leadership on this issue went above and beyond the call of duty, and for anyone to intentionally mislead voters about that fact in the days before an election is simply sad."

Libby Slappey, a former 13-year board member of Planned Parenthood of East Central Iowa: "Senator Obama is one of America's strongest and most loyal defenders of women's rights on issues of reproductive health care. I've contributed to EMILY's List in the past - but I never will again, because I'm so disappointed in their decision to launch these unfair, false attacks on behalf of Senator Clinton's campaign."

[madrchsod]

35. it is amazing how little people understand how things are done

to get things passed or blocked in local,state,and federal government. i just finished reading how johnson got the civil rights bills from 1957 on through the congress...dam he was good.

[suston96]

37. JFK's Civil Rights bill went nowhere in 1963.

Until Johnson took over and got Congress to pass it in 1964, followed by the Voting Rights Act of 1965.

That's what Hillary was talking about regarding MLK and the civil rights battles of the 1960s.

[madmom]

40. What a nice way for Obama supporters to get people to really consider their guy

:sarcasm: :shrug:

[jackson_dem]

43. Obama is pro-choice as long as political heat is not on him

[tammywammy]

45. When has he not been pro-choice?

[Nailzberg]

47. Better back that one up.

Cause Obama is 100% pro-choice. I'll believe NARAL and Planned Parenthood on that.

[jackson_dem]

48. "Present"

[tammywammy]

50. ?

The vote in Illinois was planned and completely approved by Planned Parenthood. So do you have an actual example of him being anti-choice or not?

[jackson_dem]

53. That is bull

The plan was not intended for legislators like Obama. Obama voted present 130 times. 36 times he was either alone or one of just six to run out of balls. Choice is just one issue where Obama did this. Obama put his ambition above leading repeatedly.

[tammywammy]

55. What's bull? Planned Parenthood said it was planned like that

Are you saying they're

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/obama-abortion-.html


Obama Abortion Dodges Blessed by Planned Parenthood

July 17, 2007 12:33 PM
ABC News' Teddy Davis Reports: When Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., voted "present," rather than "yes" or "no" on a handful of controversial abortion votes in the Illinois state senate, he did so with the explicit support of the president and CEO of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.

"We at Planned Parenthood view those as leadership votes," Pam Sutherland, the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, told ABC News. "We worked with him specifically on his strategy. The Republicans were in control of the Illinois Senate at the time. They loved to hold votes on 'partial birth' and 'born alive'. They put these bills out all the time . . . because they wanted to pigeonhole Democrats."

Speaking to ABC News as Obama was preparing to join Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and the wife of Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., in addressing Planned Parenthood’s national conference in Washington, D.C., Sutherland said Obama approached her in the late 1990s and worked with her and others in crafting the strategy of voting "present." She remembers meeting with Obama outside of the Illinois Senate chambers on the Democratic side of the aisle. She and Obama finished their conversation in his office.

"He came to me and said: 'My members are being attacked. We need to figure out a way to protect members and to protect women,'" said Sutherland in recounting her conversation with Obama. "A 'present' vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted."

snip


How many of those 130 votes were on abortion, since we're discussing abortion. And you've yet to show me where he was anti-choice.

[jackson_dem]

56. Who did Obama need protection from in his safe district?

"He came to me and said: 'My members are being attacked. We need to figure out a way to protect members and to protect women,'" said Sutherland in recounting her conversation with Obama. "A 'present' vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted."

[tammywammy]

57. Did you not to go the link provided?

I can only post 4 paragraphs, here's the next one

""What it did," she continued, "was give cover to moderate Democrats who wanted to vote with us but were afraid to do so" because of how their votes would be used against them electorally. "A 'present' vote would protect them. Your senator voted 'present.' Most of the electorate is not going to know what that means.""


That's who he was helping to protect, the moderate Dems.

[jackson_dem]

60. I know. That is why it had nothing to do with Obama

[Nailzberg]

61. Wrong. Safe seats voted present so moderates would feel safe voting present.

[jackson_dem]

64. All of them?

[Nailzberg]

71. If everyone voted the same way, it wouldn't be an effective smokescreen

Perhaps you just don't understand it, but it doesn't make you any less wrong.

Planned Parenthood and Barack Obama developed the strategy to protect moderate members in conservative districts, allowing them to vote down anti-choice bills.

[tammywammy]

65. You're being obtuse

Steve Trombley, CEO and president of Planned Parenthood/Chicago Action, said there's a reason his organization has endorsed Obama throughout his political career.

"Senator Obama has been a consistent supporter of reproductive rights while in the legislature and we worked closely with him in developing and implementing legislative strategies to protect the rights of women in Illinois."

http://weblogs.chicagotribune.com/news/politics/blog/2007/12/illinois_now_for_clinton_with.html#more



And again, can you provide me with something saying he's anti-choice?

[tammywammy]

58. From Project Vote Smart

Abortion Issues
(Back to top)

2006 Senator Obama supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2006.

2006 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Planned Parenthood 100 percent in 2006.

2005-2006 Senator Obama supported the interests of the National Family Planning & Reproductive Health Association 100 percent in 2005-2006.

2005-2006 Senator Obama supported the interests of the National Right to Life Committee 0 percent in 2005-2006.

2005 Senator Obama supported the interests of the NARAL Pro-Choice America 100 percent in 2005.

2003 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council 100 percent in 2003.

2002 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Illinois Federation for Right to Life 50 percent in 2002.

2001 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council 100 percent in 2001.

1997-2000 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Illinois Federation for Right to Life 0 percent in 1997-2000.

1997-1998 Senator Obama supported the interests of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council 100 percent in 1997-1998.




You're right, he's definitely anti-choice. :sarcasm:

[NYCGirl]

51. Yes, directed by Planned Parenthood. Perhaps you should read this.

ABC News' Teddy Davis Reports: When Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., voted "present," rather than "yes" or "no" on a handful of controversial abortion votes in the Illinois state senate, he did so with the explicit support of the president and CEO of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.

"We at Planned Parenthood view those as leadership votes," Pam Sutherland, the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, told ABC News. "We worked with him specifically on his strategy. The Republicans were in control of the Illinois Senate at the time. They loved to hold votes on 'partial birth' and 'born alive'. They put these bills out all the time . . . because they wanted to pigeonhole Democrats."

Speaking to ABC News as Obama was preparing to join Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and the wife of Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., in addressing Planned Parenthood’s national conference in Washington, D.C., Sutherland said Obama approached her in the late 1990s and worked with her and others in crafting the strategy of voting "present." She remembers meeting with Obama outside of the Illinois Senate chambers on the Democratic side of the aisle. She and Obama finished their conversation in his office.

"He came to me and said: 'My members are being attacked. We need to figure out a way to protect members and to protect women,'" said Sutherland in recounting her conversation with Obama. "A 'present' vote was hard to pigeonhole which is exactly what Obama wanted."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/obama-abortion-.html

[Nailzberg]

52. Aha. So you don't trust Planned Parenthood on the issue of reproductive health. Just checking.

I don't know how many times you are going to need this explained to you, but Planned Parenthood organized these present votes as an overall strategy.

ABC News' Teddy Davis Reports: When Sen. Barack Obama, D-Ill., voted "present," rather than "yes" or "no" on a handful of controversial abortion votes in the Illinois state senate, he did so with the explicit support of the president and CEO of Illinois Planned Parenthood Council.

"We at Planned Parenthood view those as leadership votes," Pam Sutherland, the president and CEO of the Illinois Planned Parenthood Council, told ABC News. "We worked with him specifically on his strategy. The Republicans were in control of the Illinois Senate at the time. They loved to hold votes on 'partial birth' and 'born alive'. They put these bills out all the time . . . because they wanted to pigeonhole Democrats."

Speaking to ABC News as Obama was preparing to join Sen. Hillary Clinton, D-N.Y., and the wife of Sen. John Edwards, D-N.C., in addressing Planned Parenthood’s national conference in Washington, D.C., Sutherland said Obama approached her in the late 1990s and worked with her and others in crafting the strategy of voting "present." She remembers meeting with Obama outside of the Illinois Senate chambers on the Democratic side of the aisle. She and Obama finished their conversation in his office.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2007/07/obama-abortion-.html (One of about 7000 other news hits on google news)

[Occam Bandage]

63. Of course, you can't back that lie up.

[tammywammy]

67. Of course not

He's hammering away about the present vote, that was done in conjunction with Planned Parenthood!

[Occam Bandage]

68. Is Planned Parenthood really pro-choice? I searched their site, and I can't find

the string of text "We, Planned Parenthood, are entirely pro-choice" anywhere!

[tammywammy]

69. hum, you're right

I think they're really a fundie pro-life group now that I think about it. Darn that Planned Parenthood, they have everyone bewitched!

[zulchzulu]

54. Actually there is stuff on the web site, but here's info if you want it

In case or whoever want to know:

On the Death Penalty:

Obama wrote in his recent memoir that he thinks the death penalty "does little to deter crime." But he supports capital punishment in cases "so heinous, so beyond the pale, that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage by meting out the ultimate punishment."

In proposing changes, Obama met repeatedly with officials and advocates on all sides. He nudged and cajoled colleagues fearful of being branded soft on crime, as well as death-penalty opponents worried that any reform would weaken efforts to abolish capital punishment.

Obama's signature effort was a push for mandatory taping of interrogations and confessions. It was opposed by prosecutors, police organizations and Ryan's successor, Democrat Rod Blagojevich, who said it would impede investigators.

Working under the belief that no innocent defendant should end up on death row and no guilty one should go free, Obama helped get the bill approved by the Senate on a 58 to 0 vote. When Blagojevich reversed his position and signed it, Illinois became the first state to require taping by statute.

"Obviously, we didn't agree all the time, but he would always take suggestions when they were logical, and he was willing to listen to our point of view. And he offered his opinions in a lawyerly way," said Carl Hawkinson, the retired Republican chairman of the Judiciary Committee. "When he spoke on the floor of the Senate, he spoke out of conviction. You knew that, whether you agreed with him or disagreed with him."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/02/08/AR2007020802262_2.html

On Abortion:

Obama supports abortion rights. In the Illinois State Senate, he voted against a bill to ban late-term abortions. Obama said that he did not support the ban because it did not contain a clause to protect the life of the mother. During the April 2007 Democratic debate, Obama said that he trusts women to make their own decisions about whether or not to have an abortion "in conjunction with their doctors and their families and their clergy."

http://pewforum.org/religion08/compare.php?Issue=Abortion

[Darth_Kitten]

59. He's waiting for Edward's opinion before making his own.

Just some humour. :) Geez. :(

[Occam Bandage]

62. Yes.