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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:31 PM
Original message
Obama Picks Reagan Over Bill Clinton
Obama is touting a new and unconventional brand of grass-roots politics, but his strategy borrows from precedents set by a previous generation of Democrats such as Jimmy Carter and Gary Hart. His advisers also invoke as inspiration a surprising Republican: Ronald Reagan.

"Now, it is blasphemy for Democrats," Obama pollster Cornell Belcher said of Reagan, "but that hope and optimism that was Ronald Reagan" allowed him to "transcend" ideological divisions within his own party and the general electorate.

http://www.taylormarsh.com/
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skipos Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:32 PM
Response to Original message
1. Nice spin, Karl. nt
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #1
7. Obams speaking what does Karl have to do with it?
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Cha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #1
65. I knew it would be a freakin' spin...
I've never seen anything else from the op. They're delirously desperate.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
2. Reagan was more successful than Clinton.
Truth sucks, but he achieved Republican goals a LOT more successfully than Clinton achieved Democratic goals.

Republican goals suck rocks, but Reagan achieved them.
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russian33 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. i think Bush achieved lots of republican goals too
gonna bring him up next?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #5
15. Bush, through his hyperpartisanship, nearly destroyed his party. No thanks.
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geek tragedy Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #5
19. Bush, like Clinton, cost his party control of Congress. n/t
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indepat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #2
113. And the Gipper's "voodoo" economics, trickle down, et al have produced a nine-fold
increase in the national debt in just over twenty-five years and a much further concentration in wealth among the top 5% or so. Moreover, the jobs market, general economy and dollar have al gone to pot. Republican goals surely do suck for almost all of the remaining 95%. Obama will not get my vote for this one insight alone.
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Radical Activist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:38 PM
Response to Reply #2
132. Reagan also won a clear majority of the vote, while Clinton never did.
Not even in '96. If Obama can mirror Reagan's ability to get elected and pass an agenda then everyone should be thrilled.
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Politicub Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 05:02 PM
Response to Reply #2
145. WHAT?!?!
Did Free Republic change its interface or something?

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beachmom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
3. Well, my parents were Reagan Democrats. It would be nice to
have Obama Republicans, now wouldn't it? Of course, that is not Clinton's plan. She just wants to eke out a razer thin win, and govern over division and partisan bickering. How dare we dream for something better.

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terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #3
37. Tell them they caused homelessness, housing loan disaster, burgeoning deficit income
gap widening, selling of arms to our enemies, torture throughout South America.

It is easy to pretend that injustice is ok. Tougher to fight it
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jasmine621 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:34 PM
Response to Original message
4. Sorry, but it was not hope ushered Reagan into office, it was the same
racism that will work against Obama that put Reagan into office. And those of us who are old enough to remember and honest enough to admit it will say so. Rossaline Carter said it perfectly: "Reagan allowed people to feel comfortable with their prejudices" a close paraphrase.
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SheWhoMustBeObeyed Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #4
104. Yes - it was fear, not hope, that elected Reagan
Reagan's 1st term was propelled by fear and resentment against affirmative action, attempts to pass the Equal Rights Amendment and other perceived infringements upon the white power structure with which working and middle class whites identified. They didn't see that, to the real power, they were as insignificant as those they feared.

Reagan's 2nd term was propelled by fear that the rising unemployment, homelessness and crime that Reagan's policies produced would drive blacks to revolt. They denied that trickle-down economics created a tide of misery that, having engulfed the most vulnerable, was now rising around their ankles.

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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:35 PM
Response to Original message
6. Tayor Marsh
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 03:35 PM by Bleachers7
:rofl:

The Democratic Michelle Malkin without the money or the influence.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:35 PM
Response to Reply #6
8. I know you just love her!
:rofl:
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #8
29. And, I watched the video. You're dissembling.
Obama doesn't pick anyone. He makes an analytical statement.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #6
14. !!!
:spray:
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #6
33. Watch the damned video
and listen to Obama himself.
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Renew Deal Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #33
40. I did.
Now what?
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
9. BAAAAHA.
:puke:
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MrsT Donating Member (427 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
10. I know what you are trying to accomplish by posting this,
but I agree with Obama.
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CyberPieHole Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
11. Obama and Bush W are cut from the same cloth...pandering to the lowest common denominator...
Obama praising Ray~gun is making me sick.:puke:

:kick: and recommend
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:36 PM
Response to Original message
12. If you want to adopt someone's tactics, I'd go Reagan over Clinton every time.
Reagan expanded his party, brought in millions of new voters, and made a previously-defunct ideology mainstream again. Clinton achieved victories by compromising principle, and left his party weaker ideologically than when he found it. I'd much rather we have our Reagan than have a second Clinton.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #12
16. Just like your candidate.
Go for it!
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:39 PM
Response to Reply #16
18. I've never before seen anyone argue *against* expanding your party's membership and strengthening
its ideology. I suppose if you'd prefer the party shrink and prefer it compromise its ideology for short-term gain, then you can go for that.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #18
21. In todays atmosphere , like I said gor for it!
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #21
28. I'm sorry, what does "in today's atmosphere" mean?
I can only read that as "in today's atmosphere, it's better to hurt your party than to grow it, and better to weaken its ideology than to strengthen its liberalism."
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terisan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:45 PM
Response to Reply #18
42. It is easy to grow support if you give up your core ideals, The challenge is in getting others to
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 03:49 PM by terisan
share your ideals.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #42
45. Actually, he's talking about refusing to give up core ideals, like Reagan did, and as
the Clintons did not. Clinton surrendered his ideals and hurt the party. Reagan stood firm and helped his.

Hope, optimism, postpartisanship--Reagan used those to push the right wing. Obama wants to use them to push the left wing. Hard to understand?
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:23 PM
Response to Reply #45
109. Reagan gave up many core ideals
His biggest ideal was smaller government. He gave that up and increased the government. He gave up trying to rollback the Great Society. He gave up on taxes and raised taxes several times. The only think he stayed firm on was his military build up.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:22 PM
Response to Reply #18
106. Obama called Bill Clinton's policies "recognizably progressive"
He clearly does not think Clinton weakened the party's ideology. He praised it.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #12
67. "made a previously-defunct ideology mainstream again"
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 03:55 PM by redqueen
No, not quite.

He mangled it beyond all recognition after fooling a bunch of idiots is what happened.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #67
69. He may have fooled idiots, but conservatism in 1988 was a hell of a lot
more viable than conservatism in 1976.
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redqueen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #69
72. Borrow and spend? Viable?
Oh, it is to laugh.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:57 PM
Response to Reply #72
73. Again, we're talking in terms of campaigning, not in terms of governance or policy.
Conservatism the political movement was more viable. Conservatism the form of governance remained unviable.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:37 PM
Response to Original message
13. I wonder what Obama thinks about Reagan's "hope and optimism" in ignoring the AIDS crisis
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 04:25 PM by Harvey Korman
and allowing thousands to die in silence.

If that's your idea of "hope"--ignoring inconvenient problems that affect "unimportant" people--then you can shove it, Barack.

:puke:
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:38 PM
Response to Reply #13
17. He will have to get back to you on that.
Has to speak to Donnie first.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #17
26. I can't believe how many people on this thread are singing the praises of RONALD REAGAN
Trickle-down economics RONALD REAGAN.

It shows me definitively that support for Obama is worship of the MAN, not support for his ideas. Because nothing he does or says can be wrong, and everything he says is right.

I will stay home before I vote for a Democrat who holds up Reagan as a model president.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:42 PM
Response to Reply #26
30. We're not. Reagan is a bastard. We're talking about using Reagan's tactics against the GOP.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #30
38. Reagan WAS the fucking GOP
and still is, practically. He is their ICON, for God's sake.

What are you talking about?

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:46 PM
Response to Reply #38
43. Yep. That's how successful Reagan was at those tactics.
Hope, optimism, postpartisanship--Reagan used those to push the right wing. Obama wants to use them to push the left wing. Hard to understand?
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #43
46. And Bill Clinton did what?
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 03:47 PM by William769
Keep trying to sell no one is buying.

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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Compromised his ideology repeatedly in the name of "triangulation," weakening the Dems.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #50
59. Gave us the best years of my adult life.
Left with a approval rating that Only two other Presidents can rival when he left office (reagan was not one of them).

I hope He keeps Invoking Reagans name. I really do.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #59
61. And that was a result of his policies, which are not part of this discussion.
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 03:52 PM by Occam Bandage
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #61
79. If you think the two are separate, YOU'RE the one fooling yourself
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 04:16 PM by Harvey Korman
Doing the right thing inevitably means pissing off people who want you to do the wrong thing. So putting "hope and optimism" as the most important priority means either compromising to such an extent that the right thing never happens or simply ignoring the more unfortunate, less popular people who are hurt by your policies so you can keep on a happy face.

This is the LIE inherent to maintaining "unity" at all costs. If Obama can't recognize this, he's either too naive to be president or he takes people for fools. Either way, he can take a hike after that statement.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:03 PM
Response to Reply #79
84. In case you don't remember, Reagan pissed off a lot of people. Obama will too.
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 04:04 PM by Occam Bandage
Obama, however, plans on keeping the center in him camp by keeping people focused on what he can accomplish if they support him--the optimism bit--and using that weight to bludgeon the GOP while smiling. His plan is to be nice to conservative voters, and then turn around and beat the living hell out of Republicans in Congress--which is pretty much the mirror of what Reagan did.

Man, you've got some simplistic views.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #84
86. No, what I have is principles and loyalty.
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 04:05 PM by Harvey Korman
Unlike your flimsy sunshine salesman candidate.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #86
87. As does Obama. That is not incompatible with smart campaigning.
All of our greatest Presidents managed to get themselves elected.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:24 PM
Response to Reply #50
112. Obama disagrees. Read his book
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #43
55. Thousands and thousands of people DIED because of that motherfucker
It is an INSULT to even INVOKE HIS NAME to people in this party. Is that hard for you to understand?

You're trying to defend the indefensible to protect your messiah. Just stop.

There's already a party that idolizes Ronald Reagan. We don't need two of them.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #55
58. Ah, so you admit this is only a knee-jerk at the name, and that you don't care
that this has absolutely nothing to do with emulating any aspect of Ronald Reagan other than the fact that he strengthened his party.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #58
70. Obama praised him for the "hope and optimism that was Reagan"
ANYONE who thinks that Reagan actually represented hope and optimism is NO ONE I would ever vote for and no one I want representing my party.

Stop splitting hairs.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #70
74. Actually is the key word there.
He's talking about campaign perceptions and tactics, not about governance, policy, or anything actual. Those are worlds apart.
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LostinVA Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:08 PM
Response to Reply #26
91. I know
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leftynyc Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #26
124. Don't forget putting Scalia on the court
While I give him credit for putting the first woman on the court, I also know he was expecting her to a lot more conservative than she turned out to be. And Scalia is a freaking nightmare for progressives.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:40 PM
Response to Reply #13
20. Yes, whenever someone talks about hope, they really mean they want people to die of AIDS.
Brilliant logic.
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #20
34. The point was that Reagan projected "hope and optimism" while people who suffered were IGNORED
But since I can tell you deliberately missed the point to back up your savior, I'll stop there.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:47 PM
Response to Reply #34
48. And that point is moving into policy, not campaign methodology. You left the parameters of the OP.
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:41 PM
Response to Reply #13
27. As in "I hope they all die because I'm optimistic it's divine retribution"?
:puke:
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #27
32. Ridiculous nonsense.
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Proud2BAmurkin Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:43 PM
Response to Reply #32
35. Agree but it was Obama's hero Reagan's position.
eom
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:48 PM
Response to Reply #35
49. And is not Obama's, as Obama is counter to Reagan on every matter of policy.
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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #13
41. yup. nt
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #13
53. Yes!
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HereSince1628 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
22. No percieved difference between picking a person's political ideology and sharing an approach
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 03:41 PM by HereSince1628
to selling the notion of change?

When suasion is directed at change, it almost must be associated with affects of hope and optimism that the change will bring something better.

Hitler and Lenin could use the same notion and still be light-years apart on the values of fascio-corporate capitalism vs communism.


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Hydra Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
23. Our country is too polarized for this to ever work
And it just keeps getting worse...although maybe it was inevitable. Too many people think it's a good thing that we are an imperial nation, rather than a gov't by the people, for the people.

That sort of split can't go on forever.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
24. Ronald Reagan?
Unbelievable. Somebody want to clue Obama in about Ronald f'n Reagan's legacy?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:44 PM
Response to Reply #24
39. Well, since he's purely talking campaign methodology and not policy, sure.
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 03:44 PM by Occam Bandage
Reagan's legacy (contained to methodology and not policy) was two terms of President, an expansion of his party, a revitalization of his party's ideology, and the groundwork for the capture of Congress. I'd take it.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:12 PM
Response to Reply #39
96. Methodology? Like going in the south and talking "States rights"? Speaking in code
to the former dixiecrats was Raygun's most successful strategy.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #96
101. Yes, Obama is planning on exploiting Southern white racism to win.
:crazy:
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #24
116. I hope you don't read the "Audacity of Hope"
You will blow a gasket at some of what he says about Reagan. Anyone who wants to know what Obama thinks about Reagan can just go to their bookstore, find the book, find Reagan in the index and read the pages Obama talks about Reagan.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 06:19 PM
Response to Reply #116
150. I'm going to buy it today.
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:41 PM
Response to Original message
25. Taylor and Hillary sittin' in a tree...
n/t
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:51 PM
Response to Reply #25
57. Barrack and Ronnie Sittin' in a tree... do it for the gipper!
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jefferson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:00 PM
Response to Reply #57
78. But what will Bill be doing?
It's "her turn."
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wyldwolf Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #78
89. helping Hillary win while Obama makes goo goo eyes at Ronnie
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #25
93. taylor marsh is a twit
randy was rocking the house today...
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Buzz Clik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:42 PM
Response to Original message
31. Your title is just a tad misleading.
Nicely done! If you wrote historical newspaper headlines:

"Hilter's Army Getting a Chilly Reception in Moscow"

"Jews Preferred Living in Spandau"

"Reagan Loses Washington DC to Mondale"

"Weapons of Mass Destruction Found in Iraq"

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La Lioness Priyanka Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:43 PM
Response to Original message
36. reagan who is responsible for letting thousands of gay men die? that reagan?
real fucking nice.

:puke:
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:49 PM
Response to Reply #36
52. Thats the one.
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bullimiami Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:46 PM
Response to Original message
44. reagan talked a lot of hope and optimism but there was no beef on that burger.
pretty sad if obama thinks talking pretty amounts to anything. reagan was an actor.
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Imagevision Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:47 PM
Response to Original message
47. If it wasn't for the Internet expolsion occuring, Bill Clinton wouldn't be beans!!!
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NoBorders Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
51. Something to be said for that argument.
Title is misleading though.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:50 PM
Response to Reply #51
54. Of course the title is misleading. If it were, "Obama wants to use optimism to push liberalism,"
he wouldn't get nearly as much faux outrage.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:53 PM
Response to Reply #54
63. He chose to invoke the SOB's
name to "push" optimism. What the hell kind of Democrat does that? It's not enough that the RW's are running on Reagan's phony message, now Barack tosses him into our side too?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:54 PM
Response to Reply #63
66. No he didn't. His campaign is adopting some of Reagans successful tactics to
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 03:55 PM by Occam Bandage
build grassroots support for liberalism. That's it.
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NoBorders Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:55 PM
Response to Reply #63
68. He's invoking his ability to move the electorate
Not his ideology or policies. Sheesh. There's a difference.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:58 PM
Response to Reply #68
75. No sorry,
he's invoking Reagan's ability to move the electorate, unfortunately he moved in the wrong direction.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:59 PM
Response to Reply #75
76. Reagan did indeed move in the wrong direction. Obama's talking about harnessing
some of those tactics to move the electorate in the right direction. Do you have a problem with advancing liberalism all of a sudden?
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #76
81. You don't invoke the devil's name
to inspire anyone to do good.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:05 PM
Response to Reply #81
85. So, again, the problem boils down to "OMG HE SAID REAGAN," and not any substantive issues with
the statement.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:10 PM
Response to Reply #85
94. Exactly right
Reagan was a POS, and drawing his name into the Democratic race is disgusting. I hated the man. I saw what happened to mental health patients, with people suffering from AIDs, and that's just two of horrible things that Reagan's vision created.
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NoBorders Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:20 PM
Response to Reply #81
105. And fortunately, he's not doinig that. n/t
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suston96 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:50 PM
Response to Original message
56. Yeah, Reagan and BClinton? Reagan added trillions of dollars to the national debt....
....and Clinton balanced several budgets, made payments on that debt, and projected surpluses for more than 10 years.

Yeah, we need another Reaganesque presidency....yeah, we do.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #56
60. The OP is clearly not talking about policy, but rather campaign methodology.
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Bodhi BloodWave Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:02 PM
Response to Reply #60
83. as an old saying goes:
None so blind as those who refuse to see.

I think that goes to most you are currently trying to argue with, sad but true
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:52 PM
Response to Reply #56
62. The talking heads here on DU as you can plainly see from this thread
Don't want to hear that.
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:53 PM
Response to Original message
64. I thought Obama was about change.
How I see he's going all the waaaaay back to Ray-gun.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 03:56 PM
Response to Reply #64
71. He's adopting some of Reagans tactics to push liberal ideology. How horrifying.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:00 PM
Response to Original message
77. Y'all are killin' me today. Loving the truce!
:popcorn:
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:01 PM
Response to Original message
80. Thanks for spreading this bullshit
I was afraid I wouldn't reach my quota for today.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:07 PM
Response to Reply #80
88. I reached mine last night
And then again this morning.

Glad I could help with your quota.
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killbotfactory Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #88
117. You gotta love the primary season
:argh:
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no name no slogan Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:02 PM
Response to Original message
82. ...and Reagan used to quote FDR and Truman
so we've come full circle.

Politicians always evoke other leaders to inspire people. I'm sure Tony Blair tried to invoke Churchill, too, even though they were in different parties.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:15 PM
Response to Reply #82
100. I don't care who Raygun quoted. Is this something coming from Obama or spin?
I don't want to write him off based on some strategists BS (I remember hearing Trippi on Air America after the 2004 theft saying that Kerry lacked Raygun's "optimism"
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:29 PM
Response to Reply #100
120. Read his book. He talks about Reagan in it
Just go to the closest bookstore, find the book, find Reagan in the index and read the pages Obama talks about Reagan.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 06:25 PM
Response to Reply #120
151. Dont want to. But your selection in the other thread did it for me. Linking your post
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4087189&mesg_id=4087491

snippet:

Nevertheless, by promising to side with those who worked hard, obeyed the law, cared for their families, loved their country, Reagan offered Americans a sense of common purpose that liberals seemed no longer able to muster."
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madrchsod Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:08 PM
Response to Original message
90. in battle would a commander
reject a tactic of the enemy for his advantage?
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:11 PM
Response to Reply #90
95. "Use aircraft carriers? After the Japanese used aircraft to attack Pearl Harbor?"
"We would be surrendering our principles! No, we'll stick with battleships and battleships only."

(DU headline: NIMITZ PICKS JAPS OVER BRITS)
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:10 PM
Response to Original message
92. Are these Obama's words? Someone please tell me.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #92
98. Watch the video at the link,
and listen for yourself.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:25 PM
Response to Reply #98
114. Puke! raygun's clarity? Like Iran Contra maybe? Those who don't learn history
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 04:26 PM by robbedvoter
are doomed to repeat it. It was that "clarity" that made 'liberal" a dirty word - and racism - fashionable again.(those think tanks pumping memes into the media)
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:26 PM
Response to Reply #114
115. We're talking purely electorally. Nothing about policies or governance.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:28 PM
Response to Reply #115
119. Electorally" states' rights speech - racist code used in south gave him the election
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 04:29 PM by robbedvoter
learn some history people! Everything Bush did was founded by Raygun. Sheesh!
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:37 PM
Response to Reply #119
131. Yes, Obama plans on appealing to Southern white racists.
Do you think before posting?
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:42 PM
Response to Reply #131
135. No, but he has done his best to appeal to SC homophobes
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 04:42 PM by Harvey Korman
So adaptable, that Obama.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #135
136. By supporting civil unions, opposing DOMA, and distancing himself from McClurkin's views?
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:44 PM
Response to Reply #136
138. Ahh, distancing himself.
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 04:45 PM by Harvey Korman
He strongly disagrees, right?

Great concert and 30 minute antigay tirade, though. They "got what they needed out of it," right? :eyes:
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 06:14 PM
Response to Reply #131
149. It's Raygun electoral achievement according to his fans. Does HE think before he praises?
My point was precisely that it's absurd for Obama to admire/borrow anything from Raygun. But history needs to be studied.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #114
123. I know,
it's f'n unbelievable to hear those words, but it fits in with what his spokesperson said about the "Democrats' disease." You know those pesky issues that keep us from winning elections? He said it on CNN, and my jaw dropped then.
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ecstatic Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:12 PM
Response to Original message
97. Wow. "reagan" is a dirty word in my circles
If true, he should lose this talking point ASAP!
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:13 PM
Response to Reply #97
99. It isn't a "talking point." He brought up Reagan's successes as an example when talking strategy.
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:30 PM
Response to Reply #99
121. Strategy based by exacerbating RACISM in the South.
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Occam Bandage Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 05:13 PM
Response to Reply #121
146. That's a different strategy than the one Obama was talking about. Do you seriously believe
that Obama is planning on exacerbating RACISM in the South?
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avaistheone1 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:15 PM
Response to Original message
102. The hope that was Reagan? Oh yuck.
Reagan started the trend which has taken this country back 50 years.


No thanks,
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NoBorders Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:19 PM
Response to Reply #102
103. Yeah, he said he wants to be just like Reagan.
:sarcasm:
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polichick Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:22 PM
Response to Original message
107. As I just posted in the video section, that made me sick...
Just when I was feeling good about Obama, my old doubts are resurfacing. This is way more than "conciliatory" toward Republicans ~ it's worshipping at the same altar.
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cadmium Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:23 PM
Response to Original message
108. Smart on Obama's part. Typically small on Taylor Marsh's part n/t
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
110. Electorally he is right.
Reagan forged a coalition in a perfect storm.

National Malaise, A weakened president dealing with Iran and internal divisions within the party. and a nation reeling for economic challenges and an angry electorate ready for change


Obama has a similar opportunity" An angry electorate. a broken and increasingly dysfunctional opposition party. Economic stagnation an immensely unpopular war.
The real difference is the sitting president is not running.


In this type of election.. f you capture the hears and minds of the middle with a message and means of driving millions of new voters to the polls in one blinding moment of national catharsis and clarity over ancient history and recent events it could happen.

Remember Bill Clinton never won the hearts and minds of the majority of american voters just a plurality.


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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:24 PM
Response to Original message
111. Electorally he is right.
Reagan forged a coalition in a perfect storm.

National Malaise, A weakened president dealing with Iran and internal divisions within the party. and a nation reeling for economic challenges and an angry electorate ready for change


Obama has a similar opportunity" An angry electorate. a broken and increasingly dysfunctional opposition party. Economic stagnation an immensely unpopular war.
The real difference is the sitting president is not running.


In this type of election.. f you capture the hears and minds of the middle with a message and means of driving millions of new voters to the polls in one blinding moment of national catharsis and clarity over ancient history and recent events it could happen.

Remember Bill Clinton never won the hearts and minds of the majority of american voters just a plurality.


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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:32 PM
Response to Reply #111
125. Coalition of racists, fundies and corporations - he started Bush's evil empire
They bought all media and made it their propaganda arm - hence the "teflon" - which was man made.
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #125
127. And it sounds like Obama is fine with that.
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Perky Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:36 PM
Response to Reply #125
129. No doubt...but that is nt the new coalition that can be formed
in this instance.

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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:27 PM
Response to Original message
118. Why not Jefferson, Jackson, FDR, JFK, or LBJ?
Anyone who wants to know what Obama thinks about Reagan can just go to their bookstore, find the book, find Reagan in the index and read the pages Obama talks about Reagan. It doesn't jibe with the "hope" of Obama being a progressive ideologue. :scared:
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:31 PM
Response to Reply #118
122. Got that right!
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:35 PM
Response to Reply #118
126. Seems to be his GE strategy. rather than attack Bush, like Hillary, praise Raygun
Hoping that it will attract the anti-Clinton vote. Someone should remind him that for all the noise the haters made, Clinton left office with 70% approval rate.
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AGirl Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:35 PM
Response to Original message
128. Well this comment is not going to win him some new gay voters
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:40 PM
Response to Reply #128
133. Thas a given!
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robbedvoter Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #128
147. It's taylored for GE, but it will lose him the primaries...(unless retracted - he's been
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 05:59 PM by robbedvoter
clever enough to correct his mistakes so far)
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Tejanocrat Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:36 PM
Response to Original message
130. No one who's read the Audacity of Hope would be suprised by this.
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jackson_dem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:41 PM
Response to Reply #130
134. You're right but how many of his supporters have read it?
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Maven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:43 PM
Response to Reply #134
137. At this point, I doubt they would read it.
They'd just draw little hearts in the margins.
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zulchzulu Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
139. Oooo lookeee! It's another bullshit post from Taylor "Hillshill" Marsh!
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 04:44 PM by zulchzulu
:boring: :crazy: :boring: :crazy: :boring: :crazy: :boring: :crazy: :boring: :crazy:

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elehhhhna Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:44 PM
Response to Original message
140. OH FOR EFF'S SAKE I suppose he also LOVES Gingrich.
Obama is a TOOL.

There. I said it.
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Bonobo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:45 PM
Response to Original message
141. *Boo hiss Boo hiss*
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JDPriestly Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:47 PM
Response to Original message
142. Reagan ran on greed, hate (ironically racial hatred) and dirty tricks.
Obama does not know his history. Reagan's message of hope was code for racism and greed. That's all Reagan was about. Obama had better go home and start studying. His statements about the past are embarrassingly ignorant.

Obama was born in 1961. That means he was 18 in 1979. He graduated from high school in 1979, so he still would have been living at his grandmother's home in Honolulu or just starting at Occidental College? I am seriously wondering if the reason Obama has not talked much about his mid-western/Hawaiian grandmother is that she was a Reagan supporter. I have no evidence for this other than Obama's statements on Reagan.

Reagan was a fad. He did nothing for America. Does Obama know what he is talking about at all on when he talks about the past? Have we heard from any of his friends in high school and college with regard to his political views? I am asking real questions on this.

We know that Hillary was a Goldwater Girl. At least she is forthright and honest about it. What were Obama's views about Reagan back in 1979? I won't hold it against him if he supported him, but I think this should be talked about now.

I just have this strange feeling that a lot of people are supporting Obama without knowing much about him.
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Cameron27 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:50 PM
Response to Reply #142
143. I think you're right
"I just have this strange feeling that a lot of people are supporting Obama without knowing much about him."
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William769 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 04:53 PM
Response to Reply #143
144. You hit the nail right on the head.
Edited on Wed Jan-16-08 04:53 PM by William769
And thanks for getting me in trouble! ;-)
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BenDavid Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Wed Jan-16-08 06:03 PM
Response to Original message
148. HELL, REAGAN WAS A DAMN RACIST...and obama trying
to emulate reagan because he thought reagan invoked inspiration.....come on obama, DAMN MAN!

Reagan, a racist is as racist does. I cared, how Reagan treated African Americans in his personal life. I do care that prominent people i e Obama seem to think that he wasn’t really a racist. What I care about is that Ronald Reagan, the patron saint of the Conservative Movement, made a career out of deliberately appealing to the racist vote. it brought him to power and it was a constant tool throughout his career. Ronald Reagan acted in public as a racist acts. He deliberately set out to appeal to racists and continue the odious Southern Strategy. In doing so, he helped to mainstream racism in the GOP and thus the country.

SHAME SHAME SHAME......if it talks like a republican, walks like a republican then most likely you got a republican....and I am fearful obama is just that.....and to me this is not a far stretch for obama to play the race card, in which he has during this campaign.......
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