Hillary's new attack mailer in Nevada with more lies about Obama..

[elizm]

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0108/A_tax_attack.html#comments

As in New Hampshire, Clinton has a mailer out in Nevada calling Obama's plan to raise the cap on social security payroll tax "a trillion dollar tax increase." The rhetoric is pretty straightforwardly conservative, taking an anti-tax line on something that would -- in the various forms it's been proposed -- largely affect a relatively high-income minority.

The Obama campaign released it to reporters, and the candidate himself pushed back.

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalradar/2008/01/obama-slams-cli.html

Obama Slams Clinton for Nevada Mailer
Email
Share January 16, 2008 4:18 PM

ABC News' Sunlen Miller Reports: Senator Barack Obama slammed Sen. Hillary Clinton Wednesday for sending out fliers to Navadans that he said misstates his health care plan and position on social security.

The Obama campaign supplied reporters with a copy of the Clinton campaign mailer, that reads: "We need a President that will help hard working families keep more of what they earn."....

"Some of you may have been getting these, a flier lately from Senator Clinton’s camp that says that they are gonna solve Social Security just by showing fiscal responsibility and 'Obama is going to initiate a trillion dollar tax cut on hard working families,'", Obama told the crowd, "I want to be clear about what the social security debate is ... we don't have an immediate crisis, but we do have a long term problem."

Obama said his plan would bolster social security coffers by removing the current cap on the very highest of earners -- not a general tax raise implied by the Clinton mailer.



By Ben Smith 04:59 PM

[babylonsister]

1. The more time goes by, the dirtier she gets. It's tiresome. And ugly. nt

[City Lights]

2. And desperate. eom

[AtomicKitten]

8. and so disgusting it's coming full circle to boring

[rodeodance]

11. yes, these phony attachs on Sen. Clinton are getting real ugly.

[AtomicKitten]

17. Keep playing the VICTIM CARD with orchestrated faux outrage to imagined slights.

[rodeodance]

20. " imagined slights."--you mean the IP playing along with the article saying it was an ATTACH?

[rodeodance]

22. I think many obama supports have a limited vocabulary-its victim card, race card or race-baiting

that is thrown out time and time again.

[AtomicKitten]

25. and when your candidate is done playing those cards she's out of ammunition nt

[rodeodance]

32. as I am sure you know--I was referring to the posts that attach Clinton and use those

words on her supporters

[City Lights]

18. "Phony attachs?" The attachments are real. It's called baggage. eom

[alteredstate]

14. Yuck.

[Hieronymus]

60. Hillary's running a Karl Rove campaign .. dirty.

[HeraldSquare212]

3. What an impoverished platform she's running on - lies and more lies.

It's an admission she can't sell herself, which suggests she's not a great candidate for the general election.

[Perry Logan]

4. By now, I automatically discount all accusations coming from the Obamites. It's dirty politics.

[babylonsister]

6. You betcha it's dirty; you need to take a close look at your gal. nt

[rodeodance]

9. She points out differences and Obama people play with the media-call it ATTACH! grow up

[cali]

21. do you believe it's reasonable to raise the caps on social security

taxes on higher paid earners- I believe it's capped at $97,000 dollars. Do you have a problem with someone paying tax on a higher amount?

[annie1]

44. can you explain this cap to me? do people who make under such an amount...

pay no ss tax? or would it be a higher tax or what? thanks.

[tammywammy]

49. Annie

All income under $97,000 pays SS tax. Once you reach $97,000 you don't have to pay it on any more income the rest of the year.

[annie1]

50. ohhhhh. i see. thanks.

[tammywammy]

51. So, I find it very

disingenuous to say that raising or permanently lifting the cap would be an extra tax on the middle class.

Oh and it's per person, not household.

[annie1]

52. if it's only 1 person who earns that amount but is head of the household...

and has, let's say, 2 kids and a wife who is a caretakers, does the tax change? so let's say the cap were raised to $125K. well, actually, i don't know what middle class is, but in big cities 125k is middle class, but i guess not if you have 2 earners.

although, it doesn't seem very fair b/c he didn't say that he WOULD, right? or is it the case that he might. thanks.

[tammywammy]

53. okay

Obama's for raising or lifting the tax cap on SS. Hillary's not, she says it's an extra tax on middle class workers.

Only 6% (I believe) of workers make more than $97,000 a year.

Does that help answer your questions?

edited to add:

Here's a story on this that might help too. http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/Story?id=3638710&page=1

[annie1]

55. thank you so much!

that is very helpful. i was very upset about the flier, but now, i dunno, doesn't seem so bad. one more thing. do you think that the flier is still unfair? now that i look at that it might, seem..reasonable? maybe not, just asking your opinion. I live in nyc, so i may see things different. i always thought up "uppermiddle class" as $150k and up, so i see middle as under 150k. and it does specify "familes".

[tammywammy]

56. I think the flier is unfair

Where I live $97,000 is a lot. The only place it isn't, is on the coasts really. :shrug: I personally have no problem with lifting completely or at least raising it.

[annie1]

57. gotcha, thanks.

i appreciate it. :). 1 more minor thing, people who get the flier, would they know if the tax would affect them? for example, if i had gotten the flier, i would have no idea what that would mean. but if normal people got the flier, would they know whether it would or would not apply to them?

i guess i probably wouldn't have a problem with lifting it. even if i made 120k, it would only be 6.5%, that's not much when you make that much even if you do have 2 children.

[tammywammy]

58. I doubt most people know what it means

I mean, I didn't know the cap was $97,000 until probably 6 months ago. That's why I think it's a misleading flier.

I think the regular lay person would see that flier and think that Obama wants to raise taxes on the middle class, but it's not really. It would only be more taxes on those that make more than $97,000/year.


edited to add: Here's the flier:

[annie1]

59. gotcha.

at least they put a nice picture of him. :D.

i feel less freaked out then i did before, but i see what you are saying.

[tammywammy]

61. Annie, I've always liked you

I don't always agree with you, but you seem willing to at least to listen. :)

[annie1]

62. and..

i very much appreciate your willingness to explain things to me in an open and fair way. :)

[Cha]

12. You had your eyes and ears closed

from the very beginning and nothing's changed.

[elizm]

15. Sorry...but it came from Politico...not 'Obamites'. Truth sometimes hurts, I know. nt

[DJ13]

5. "We need a President that will help hard working families keep more of what they earn."

Thats almost word for word a Republican campaign slogan.

Are we sure Hillary isnt a Republican?

[Yael]

23. I'm not convinced yet

[Renew Deal]

7. Hillary's honesty is like her supporters. Here it is:

[BenDavid]

16. but seems like obama has some affection for reagan. What's up

with that? This is serious and tells me something about the character of obama to associate reagan and himself into the same message. Hell Reagon was a damn racist!

Concerning Reagan, a racist is as racist does. I care, how Reagan treated African Americans in his personal life. I do care that prominent people i e Obama seem to think that he wasn’t really a racist. What I care about is that Ronald Reagan, the patron saint of the Conservative Movement, made a career out of deliberately appealing to the racist vote. it brought him to power and it was a constant tool throughout his career. Ronald Reagan acted in public as a racist acts. He deliberately set out to appeal to racists and continue the odious Southern Strategy. In doing so, he helped to mainstream racism in the GOP and thus the country.

SHAME SHAME SHAME......if it talks like a republican, walks like a republican then most likely you got a republican....and I am fearful obama is just that.....and to me this is not a far stretch for obama to play the race card, in which he has during this campaign.......

[rodeodance]

19. don't know, but seems Obama likes to fly on the shirtails of the Repug Savior.

[cali]

29. do you really enjoy spreading

false information? How sad.

[elizm]

24. Perhaps you have a listening or reading comprehension deficit....

Obama said nothing about any affection for Reagan. It must be over your head if you don't get the point. Here maybe this link will help...

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/obama_reagan_changed_direction_of_country_in_way_bill_clinton_didnt.php

But Obama is also making an argument about the readiness of the electorate for change, comparing today's desire for a new direction with the electorate's mood in 1980. In this context, Obama is presenting himself as a potentially transformational figure in opposition to Hillary, who, Obama has been arguing, is unequipped to tap into the public's mood due to her coming of age in the sixties and her involvement in the political battles of the 1990s.

[zulchzulu]

48. What was that about Reagan?

Nice handshake, Bill...

[rinsd]

10. Looks like Krugman's critique on Obama dealing with SS have finally sunk in.

Obama told the crowd, "I want to be clear about what the social security debate is ... we don't have an immediate crisis, but we do have a long term problem."

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/11/16/opinion/16krugman.html?ex=1352955600&en=a87e0ffad19b7b62&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

Lately, Barack Obama has been saying that major action is needed to avert what he keeps calling a “crisis” in Social Security — most recently in an interview with The National Journal. Progressives who fought hard and successfully against the Bush administration’s attempt to panic America into privatizing the New Deal’s crown jewel are outraged, and rightly so.

But Mr. Obama’s Social Security mistake was, in fact, exactly what you’d expect from a candidate who promises to transcend partisanship in an age when that’s neither possible nor desirable.

To understand the nature of Mr. Obama’s mistake, you need to know something about the special role of Social Security in American political discourse.

Inside the Beltway, doomsaying about Social Security — declaring that the program as we know it can’t survive the onslaught of retiring baby boomers — is regarded as a sort of badge of seriousness, a way of showing how statesmanlike and tough-minded you are.

[rodeodance]

13. Over the years I have learned to trust Krugman. Bush called SS a crisis also and wanted

to privatize it.
The word crisis is overused

[sandnsea]

30. He used it in reference to Medicare

He said something to the affect that people talk about the social security crisis, when the real crisis is going to be Medicare. As usual, Krugman twisted Obama's words because he's been enamored with Edwards' stunning reformation from DLC centrist to Kucinich populist.

[loveangelc]

26. she can only talk about other people because her own ideas suck.

[earthlover]

27. Hillary is WRONG to say lifting the cap will affect WORKING CLASS taxpayers

And she knows it! It only will affect the top 1-2% of our income earners! Most of these folks would hardly qualify as working class.

This is just plain wrong. This is not the first time she has pointed to this tax on the wealthiest. Earlier she called it an attack on the "middle class".

Either Hillary is so patrician through and through that she considers someone in the top 2% to be middle class or she is deceptively making false accusations about Obama's lifting of the cap. In either case, I am afraid, this alone should disqualify her for thousands of jobs. Especially the job of president.

[kenfrequed]

31. Oh yeah....right

All those garbage collectors, and factory workers, and office assitants that make over a hundred thousand dollars a year. Sure, real working class people. This is so damned revealing of what class Hillary is concerned with, and what class she thinks Obama has attracted.

This is why I would vote for Kucinich or Edwards. I would expect them to say something like.

"Well hell yes I'm raising their taxes a bit! Do you want your neighbor to get another luxury SUV or do you want to feel secure about where your parents and grandparents are going to be living or if they have enough for food?"

[kenfrequed]

28. Nevermind the facts...

Nevermind that raising the income cap on Social security would actually be a good thing! Or that it would only increase the taxes of people making over 100k a year, or that it would do quite a bit to garaunteeing social security's solvency for a long time to come.

I mean christ, how do you attack someone with a mailer that sounds like it was written by a bunch of stupid anti-tax re-fuck-licans?

Honestly this is what is wrong with politicking these days, everyone is still running campaigns like its 1994.

[jackson_dem]

33. Is Hillary channeling Romney?

This is an outright lie. Hillary is better than this and should not resort to tactics like this.

[Califooyah Operative]

34. And Her Desperation Continues... nt

[Essene]

35. AT LEAST SHE HELD UP TO THE RACE/GENDER TRUCE. Oh wait, no she didnt...

=(

[bunnies]

36. This shit makes it SO much harder to even consider voting for her in the GE.

Id already have to hold my nose to do it... but if this bullshit doesnt stop, Its on her NOT me.

[Thrill]

37. You knew she wasn't going to play fair

And when the Repukes do it to her, I don't want to hear them whining and crying about it

[Skip Intro]

40. I think the Obama camp has the market cornered on whining. n/t

[Thrill]

42. Really? Because the whining I was hearing was from Clinton

on how the media was treating her unfairly. I heard that from her and hubby. "wah wah Their giving him a free ride wah wah"

[Skip Intro]

43. Really? I must have missed that. Got a link?

[Thrill]

45. Sure here ya go

http://abcnews.go.com/GMA/Vote2008/story?id=4099840

[Skip Intro]

47. I see no whining there, just a fairly accurate description of media scrutiny to date.

[Thrill]

54. LOL Typical

[gulfcoastliberal]

38. Shows just how "progressive" Clinton is.

About the same as Bush.

[annie1]

39. Ugh. that seems really wrong. :(

i'm still a little confused, but i hate to see stuff like this.

[Barack_America]

41. I'm shocked...SHOCKED!

Just kidding. How could I be? This is par for the course for Hillary. Did I convince you though? How are my acting skills, lol.

Tell me, what's worse:

-A mailer containing lies about your opponent's positions

-or-

-A flier that asks Republicans to vote for you (and oh how the Clinton supporters RAGED against Obama for that!)

[zulchzulu]

46. She surrounds herself with liars, cheaters and turncoats, so this is to be expected

Nothing surprises me with what lies and mud-slinging that the Hillaryworld spews in this election.

The same flier will be out in South Carolina and the February 5th states. It was in Iowa and New Hampshire...was debunked and still, she chooses the low road.