NV: Dispute over worker who says union reps told her she can't caucus if she isn't supporting Obama

[ruggerson]

Two sides to this story, but troublesome if there is indeed a grain of truth in it.

<snip>

On top of that, Angers and DeFalco said, the reps handed Antuna an Obama pledge card, telling her she had to sign it to participate in the caucus and that today was the deadline.

“The lady told all of us: Nobody can go to the caucus unless you’re voting for Obama,” Angers said. “They have no right to do what they did. This is America. You should be able to vote for who you feel like. It doesn’t matter who the union is endorsing. They can try to persuade us but it doesn’t mean people have to vote for them.”

But Antuna tells a different story. She said she was filling out a voter registration form when the union reps approached her about Obama. When she told them she wasn’t sure about caucusing for him, one rep took her registration form, indeed telling her that she couldn’t participate Saturday if she wasn’t supporting Obama.

At that point, Antuna said, Angers and DeFalco, who were sitting at a neighboring table, engaged the union rep in a heated discussion. Antuna said she sat silent while both sides swapped words. She doesn’t recall the bit about the pledge cards.

One key fact: The union reps spoke broken English.

“It’s possible it was a miscommunication,” Antuna said.

<snip>

http://www.lasvegassun.com/blogs/early-line/2008/jan/16/incident-paris-las-vegas/

[Proud2BAmurkin]

1. wow.

nasty.

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. Well...someone better be investigation THAT! Where is Kucinich?

Where is the outrage? How many people were forced to caucus for obama? Did this happen in Iowa too?

Where is the outrage?

[Renew Deal]

5. Have you ever been in or around a union?

This story is believable.

[kikiek]

25. Not the 1st sign of trouble out there. The way they caucus is that anyone not endorsing

Obama will be obvious. Very intimidating. Good argument for not allowing them to do it at work. Outside of the whole election this union makes me nervous. People use the "they're all corrupt" to dissuade people from organizing. Hopefully this large one won't be used in the future as an example. That's what I love about Edwards. He is right that unions need to come back in a big way.

[mckeown1128]

61. Why would the culinary union push voters in Iowa??? nt

[Renew Deal]

3. I hope that's not true, but lets assume it is...

How would they enforce it?

[papau]

7. peer pressure

[Renew Deal]

9. If they caucus in the same place.

I don't know how likely that is. Vegas it tiny, but still.

[ArkySue]

17. The caucus

will be held at their work-place. Of course the union reps and the employers will be able to see who people are caucusing for.

[Renew Deal]

18. They are caucusing across the entire state

So it's not necessarily in the work place. Some people will be off from work at that time. They might caucus at home.

[ArkySue]

38. The article was about

the at-large districts on the strip, the special ones for the Culinary Union. I know their caucusing all over the state. Sheesh.

[Barack_America]

4. “It’s possible it was a miscommunication,”

That sounds likely, especially when you have people recounting the story differently, like you do here.

It is possibly concerning that the union reps spoke "broken English" as reported. But that's for the union to fix.

[Renew Deal]

6. I think it's likely too.

I don't see how they could possibly enforce it.

[ruggerson]

8. Looking at it as objectively as I can

(and I am of course biased), at the very least, if this is something that is happening on a larger scale, it needs to be investigated. And I would feel exactly the same way if this was a Union supporting Clinton and there were reports of this kind of thing.

[Barack_America]

19. Well it's been reported that the Culinary Workers are questioning their...

...members hard about who they're voting for and that's pretty close to a big ol' no-no too. I mean, going to their houses and pressing them. But that's what unions do and have done since the beginning of unions. It's certainly the downside though. It's the ugly part of giving workers a voice in Washington that can stand up to their bosses. The bosses have money and the unions have votes. Representation in our government isn't free and "boo!" to that.

I wonder if the union would be this riled up if they weren't so pissed about that lawsuit? Methinks, no.

[rodeodance]

10. pledge cards?---not a union I would want to be in

[Renew Deal]

11. Then it's a union you wouldn't be in.

This is a common practice in general (non-electoral).

[ruggerson]

13. Frankly, I think the entire caucus system is a big joke

there's way too much influence exerted by people with strong personalities and/or precinct captains. And the public voting aspect of it intimidates newer voters, shy people and people who value the privacy of their ballot.

There's far too much room to try to game the whole process.

[kikiek]

58. I have always been in a union. Previous and current one very large. We have never signed

pledge cards. Neither one has ever endorsed for primaries though. For elections they send out information on who they feel will best serve the interest of the issues the members face. Right now for nurses it is safe patient care standards and universal health care coverage.

[Kurt_and_Hunter]

12. It wouldn't be politics without a little union hardball

I take this stuff for granted in a caucus, on any side.

There's a reason we have a secret ballot for real elections.

[Name removed]

14. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Renew Deal]

16. Your comment stands out.

Borderline racist and that's a thin line.

[HeraldSquare212]

21. At least they have the right to argue and complain about it,

which is more than Clinton would allow them.

[CyberPieHole]

23. Where and when did Senator Clinton not allow someone to "argue and complain"...

link please?

[HeraldSquare212]

30. If they can't vote, there's no point in arguing and complaining, right? nt

[CyberPieHole]

37. That's your link? That doesn't prove she said anything of the sort...

sorry no sale.:hi:

[leftynyc]

65. I'd like to see some proof of that claim

cuz I thinking you're speaking out of your ass.

[Barack_America]

24. And rude to Kucinich!

You're kicking a man while he's down and in the same breath calling Obama supporters "thugs"?

Wow. You chose your candidate wisely. Perfect match.

[CyberPieHole]

28. Kucinich isn't down...it only appears that way to you...

...because he's short.:hi:

[Barack_America]

33. Why do you hate Kucinich so much?

Dear Lord.

You could be Hillary's trainer in that nail-studded ballbat battle we were talking about yesterday.

[CyberPieHole]

39. I don't hate Kucinich...I actually like him somewhat...

You should read some of my posts on Reagan...now, there is someone I hate. Sorry for the snark about Kucinich...I didn't mean (too much) harm.

[Yael]

29. Ouch!

Talk about winning hearts and minds.

:rofl:

[madrchsod]

53. you click and drag don`t you.....

:thumbsup:

[Yael]

54. If only

:P

[HeraldSquare212]

32. How are Obama supporters thugs?

Link, please.

[Barack_America]

35. Because we all listen to rap music and live that "thug life"...

Tu-Pac was all about.

Seriously though, I have no idea what the hell he/she's talking about. Typical Clinton-echoer.

[juajen]

56. I resent that broad brush you're using.

N/T

[leftynyc]

66. So do I

I really like Obama and will vote for him if he's the nominee but some of his supporters make me want to barf. And they get worse every single day. Some of Hillary's supporters are asses also but it' getting very out of hand.

[jackson_dem]

45. Look at how several of them were threatening Proud2bamurkin a couple days ago

[LostinVA]

62. I missed that one

Although the poster was spamming the board more than I like a legit DUer to do.

[CyberPieHole]

48. Because Obamabots are pushier and bossier than the rest...that's how...

For proof, read the article at this link Here

[indimuse]

70. Workers Local 226, and you don't caucus for Senator Obama???

Not On My Shift
by izarradar, Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 10:00:25 PM EST

I'm a card carrying union gal, a proud member of the striking WGA ("We write. You wrong"). I learned about
respecting the power of the rank and file from my father who taught me never to cross a picket line, and from my own days of walking a line I learned to love the rank and file as brothers and sisters. So every time a union endorses a candidate I pay special attention because I value the voices of union members.

Senator Obama received an important endorsement the day after he lost the New Hamphire primary. The Culinary Workers Local 226 in Nevada announced that he was their candidate of choice. I was impressed by the endorsement, and respectful of the 60,000 hard-working men and women who voted for it. The rank and file had spoken, and Obama was their man, I thought.

Turns out I was wrong.



Unions use various ways to decide upon an endorsement. Sometimes it's a questionnaire, or maybe a ballot. Other times it evolves out of meetings. In most unions, the leadership will have the final say, but not before consulting with the rank and file. This isn't the process the Culinary Workers Local 226 used to make its endorsement of Senator Obama. The rank and file wasn't involved in the decision at all.

And now members are pissed.

Channel 8, Eyewitness Now reported from Las Vegas, NV (1/11/08):

http://www.lasvegasnow.com:80/...

Eve Berkstresser is one of more than 60,000 culinary union members statewide. She and a handful of others picketing said they disagree with how the union leaders chose to endorse Senator Barack Obama for president.

"They shouldn't be endorsing anyone unless the members have a chance to speak. But they haven't done that. They did it on their own," said Berkstresser.

The statement from Culinary Staff Director Ted Pappageorge was this:

"Our members have always had their favorites -- we all do. But in the end our members understand about division and weakness and unity and strength," said Pappageorge.

I'm not sure exactly what that means, are you? More importantly, I'm not sure the rank and file understands what that means. But did Pappageorge include the membership in this decision by taking a vote?

While the union leadership says they believe their members are unified in the decision, they told us they did not poll their membership.

So excuse me, I don't want to jump to conclusions (unlike Pappageorge jumping to conclusions about his rank and file), but are they basing this endorsement on what? Some crystal ball? Tea leaves perhaps? Tossing a coin? Call me old-fashioned, but when you want to know what your membership is thinking on something as important as who should be President, shouldn't you simply print up ballots and let EVERYONE have a voice?

What's the big deal, you might ask? The union leadership can't force a member to honor the endorsement of Senator Obama. If a member wants to vote for John Edwards, or Senator Clinton, they're free to do so. This is a democracy, right? The secret ballot protects our identity and our choice.

Well, that's a problem.

This is an open caucus. Union members will be standing in the same room with other union members. Or maybe even their shop steward. Or their foreman. Or possibly even a union official. Everyone will know which candidate you're backing. And if you're a member of Culinary Workers Local 226, and you don't caucus for Senator Obama???

That could make for a long shift on Monday.

If it were my union, I'd be pissed. And I'd use my voice to let the union officials know it. You don't pay union dues for this kind of forced intimidation. I'd let my brothers and sisters of the rank and file know this: I won't tolerate political bullying.

Not on my shift.

[Bluebear]

15. All caucus-goers MUST have the BAM before being allowed in.

It's a movement, I understand.

[Barack_America]

27. It is...wanna join? lol. n/t

[Thrill]

20. LOL More BS from Clinton Supporters

These people will do anything

[JackORoses]

22. The Hillarites are getting restless

Nevada must be near.

[Colobo]

34. Yeah... they are feeling the heat...

Gobama!

[Yael]

26. ...

:popcorn:

Keep it up, folks. While you all are ripping yourselves to ribbons, John Edwards is coming up right under the fray.

[Skip Intro]

31. wow. nt

[annie1]

36. it might suck for union workers that the caucuses are in person and not a private vote.

[Barack_America]

43. And there you have uncovered the purpose of the lawsuit.

If these people are going to be "peer pressured" into voting for Obama, their ability to vote becomes a threat.

[annie1]

55. ohhhhh. i thought it was just that it would be so easy for them to vote...

well in that case, FAIR ENOUGH, i'd sue too! except i know that they knew about it before and thought their favored candidate would get the culinary endorsement. but it would suck if the contest were to lean toward a candidate for peer pressure.

[indimuse]

73. What union workers are saying>>>

<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<snip>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>




Now thats funny!

wonderful and true diary.

afscme, which all the obamtes whined about being run by the top down, polled their membership 3 times before endorsing.

This is a disgrace. Its really about the changes at Unites national office and Change to Win. I dont know if many know her name, but if the legendary Unite organizer and union leader Evy Dubois was still around, she passed way at 96 I believe, this would never have happened. She was a friend of both Mrs. Rooselvelt and Mrs. Clinton. Nobody could beat that woman {all 5 foot of her)and nobody would have kept her from backing Hillary. Nobody.


Offend the Media - ABO - Anybody But Obama!
by Seymour Glass on Sun Jan 13, 2008 at 11:09:22 PM EST


Re: Not On My Shift (2.00 / 1)


Mixing unions and caucuses is not going to result in true democracy as we see it, is it?



by crackityjones on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 01:57:16 AM EST


excellent diary (2.00 / 2)

the act of making these union members caucus at their work place is an intentional attempt to force them to knuckle under and caucus for the Union leadership's choice. The whole thing is sleazy.
I hope they stand up and vote for the other candidates if that is what they want to do. It is going to take a lot of guts to do that.


ABO... Anybody but Obama. I LIKE the democratic party.



by MollieBradford on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 02:20:38 AM EST



Re: excellent diary (none / 0)

I agree that the most problematic aspect of this is having workers caucusing at their work place. There may be undue pressure (even if it is only perceived pressure) to vote in unison with the union position.
I think it would be better in the future to perhaps split the causus into 2 shifts - morning and evening? That way, people can caucus in their communities either shift, and after the second shift, the numbers will be combined? I have a job in my town hall, and I am very glad we do not caucus in my state. I think I would be very intimited to go against what is suggested by my boss or union.


by AnnC on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 09:30:42 AM EST
< Parent >


Re: excellent diary (none / 0)


The good part of this is that people that would ordinarily not be able to caucus will now be able to do so. The bad part is that it is happening at their place of employment where their union leaders will be able to see who toed the line and who didn't. Since the decision to support Obama came from above rather than a ballot from the membership this whole process is suspect.

I fully support having as many Americans vote for our Presidential nominee as possible. But people should be able to do this within their communities like everyone else. The potential repercussions for not following the union leadership's decision is very real. Ideally people should be given time off to participate in the caucus process in their communities. That is the way our founders envisioned citizen participation in the electoral process and they have proven time and again how wise they really were.


Obama is openly requesting that Republicans determine the Democratic nominee for President.
by Undies Sided on Mon Jan 14, 2008 at 10:58:28 AM EST

[Renew Deal]

40. The article says that Hillary's people are making something out of nothing.

"To hear Clinton’s campaign and her supporters tell it, the union intimidated a member into caucusing for Obama, demanding that she sign a pledge card — or face exile from the caucus.

To hear the alleged victim tell it, it was much more of a misunderstanding."

[Barack_America]

41. Annnd Hillary's associates in the teachers' union are fighting to take away her vote

sooo, in the end it probably doesn't matter anyway!

[ruggerson]

46. That's the reporter's spin

read the words the woman uttered. She never says it was much more of a misunderstanding. She says she was approached and then told she could not caucus if she wasn't supporting Obama. It's clear the reporter asked her then if it could have been a miscommunication when he found out they spoke broken English. She replied "It's possible."

How does "It's possible" then get translated, by the reporter, into "it was much more of a misunderstanding?" (reporter's words)

It's clear that something happened, which is why it needs to be investigated. What really happened and to what extent is this occurring? We don't know, which is why I wrote that there were two sides to this particular tale.

[Renew Deal]

50. The "victim" said “It’s possible it was a miscommunication,” Antuna said.

It's right in the article.

[ruggerson]

52. Which is quite different from "It was much more of a misunderstanding"

which is how the reporter then tries to characterize it.

[Freddie Stubbs]

42. This is why we have secrect ballots

[Cameron27]

44. They'd better investigate

to see if this is an isolated incident or not. The Sun would be the place to look for any developments I think.

The Culinary Union:

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/jan/15/pilar/

[kikiek]

47. That article actually clarifies who this battle is between. It is about union power in NV more than

it is about any presidential candidate. They're not looking at just one election.

[Cameron27]

49. Yep

I agree, I wasn't implying that that article was about the candidates & the primary. There's more tension than I realized between the unions in NV.

[kikiek]

51. Yeah that's not good. Unions need to be supportive of each other when the need arises.

[annie1]

57. this is what i think too.

[William769]

59. Obama plant. NT

[babylonsister]

60. 8:30 pm UPDATE:

Updated 8:30 p.m.:

The Culinary Union has investigated and says the source of the drama seemed to be about how one changes one’s party registration three days before the caucus.

Antuna was a registered independent, and the union reps were talking to her about how she had to be a Democrat to participate on Saturday, Weiss said.

Hardly scandalous and certainly not intimidation, she added.

Weiss said she suspects the whole incident was drummed up by the enthusiastic Clinton supporters, who got heated when the union reps started pitching Obama.

[Adelante]

63. Where is that from, babylonsister?

Thank you.

[babylonsister]

64. Here: it's an update from the original article:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4092914

[Cameron27]

71. I think we need an independent

source to back up Weiss's comments. As head of the culinary union, he's not an unbiased source.

[Barack_America]

74. Thanks for the update...Welcome to an early caucus...

You asked for it, hope you're enjoying it....

[jasmine621]

67. This will not make the MSM headlines but if it were the Clinton campaign

supporters doing this, it would already be on the news. Obama had better address this quickly. He is in Nevada and he MUST squash this allegatin immediately.

[babylonsister]

68. Do you have tunnel vision? See posts 60 and 63. nt

[Cameron27]

72. I'm waiting for someone other than Weiss

to verify that things are above board with his union.

[Barack_America]

75. Well why don't you take off the tinfoil hat...

And go interview the women yourself? That's the only way you can be sure *they* are not lying to you.

C'mon, read the original story:
-You've got two women recounting the same story differently
-You've got a reported language barrier

And you're surprised to hear that this turned out to be a misunderstanding?

[CK_John]

69. I'm hoping the court declares the caucus violates the Voting Rights Act and is unconstitutional. n/t

[Beacool]

76. This definitely needs to be investigated.

But NOT just by the union. It needs to be investigated by some reputable outside entity. No union should be able to intimidate its members to vote for the candidate that they endorsed. It goes against democracy, whether that candidate be Obama, Clinton or anybody else!!!