Ok I've had it with you Guys slamming Clintons Presidency

[sunonmars]

I mean, HOW DARE YOU.

This man is the only Democrat to have captured the White House for us in the last 7 ELECTIONS.

Why are you taking the piss out of his Presidency.

You are not real Democrats if you can't give Bill Clinton some respect.

I've seen posts here today criticising his presidency, making rude remarks about his presidency.

Don't forget he was OUR DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT.

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[babylonsister]

1. Suck it up. nt

[BeyondGeography]

7. LOL

:thumbsup:

[niceypoo]

60. This from someone who comes unglued at the slightest criticism of St Obama

The hypocracy reeks.

[babylonsister]

63. Neener neener neener. I'm crushed - not! nt

[HeraldSquare212]

2. He was, but he made many compromises of Democratic principles for personal political gain

and it is his dishonest, new-found absolutism regarding Republicans that is so appalling.

[DJ13]

14. "........he made many compromises of Democratic principles for personal political gain"

:thumbsup: :thumbsup:

The best Republican President our country ever had.

[HeraldSquare212]

19. That's what really kills me - it wasn't for policy reasons, but to save his own political skin

I could at least have respected him if he really believed in those things, much as I would have been angry that he signed them.

[jasmine621]

86. Please site the compromise and the persoonal gain from it.

Otherwise, I'm ignoring this smear.

[cali]

3. He's entitled to respect based on his behavior

or not. And I have never had a lot of respect for Bill, though I liked him well enough, because of his behavior. And now I don't even particularly like him. His sleaze factor is way too high for either respect or liking.

[Little Star]

4. They have to many stars in their eyes to be ashamed.

[Bodhi BloodWave]

5. Respect is earned and not given, its can also be lost by foolish/bad actions n/t

[Barack_America]

NAFTA! NAFTA! Killed my state! Destroyed my town. Cost my mother her job.

Need I go on?

He's wronged me personally much more than Reagan ever did.

[madmom]

22. Reagan might not have wronged you personally, but a lot of people died ..

and others lost everything because of him.I frankly see no comparison.

[noamnety]

30. did half a million iraqi children die under reagan? nt

[madmom]

43. didn half a million children die under clinton?

[Barack_America]

48. Under Iraqi sanctions, yes. n/t

[madmom]

51. these were UN sanctions and they were started because HW didn't have the balls to finish ..

to finish the first gulf war.

[noamnety]

57. You think Bush the elder should have invaded Iraq?

Wow.

Just wow.

I don't see too many people here still supporting the invasion.

The US used the UN as a tool, but it was Clinton who refused to let the sanctions go. Research it. It's on his hands. And it's on ours, as well, for not speaking about against that - even if he was wearing the big D of infallibility after his name.

[madmom]

62. no I'm just saying if Saddam was such the tyrant they say he was why

didn't he take him out the first time, why did we put him in power in the first place.Clinton was not infallible put it was not all on his hands.

[noamnety]

64. What do you mean why did we put him in power?

That's what we do. We put right-wing tyrants in power around the world. Even Clinton was busy doing that.

[madmom]

103. maybe so but the question was about Iraqi sanctions and Saddam Hussein...

who put him in power? Richard Nixon with the help of the CIA and the us military, if not for that the political climate would be totally different.Who's picture do we see all over the place shaking hands with Saddam? Why it's none other than Rummy, one of Nixon's boys.So this mess all started way back then, seems Clinton kinda inherited this mess.

[noamnety]

114. So Saddam was in power, as were a lot of other tyrants

- some others of whom Clinton was working to put in power.

Why you support the invasion of a sovereign nation is still beyond me, tyrant or not. How you can defend causing the genocide of a half million Iraqi children is beyond me. I'm sorry, but "That was an okay genocide, because he didn't personally put Saddam in power" is not acceptable by any standard.

By that logic, the US should have millions and millions of children starve to death because we have a tyrant as a leader.

(Lemme guess, that's different cause we're 'merikuns.)

[madmom]

116. excuse me but where the fuck did you see me say it was ok to kill half

a million children? where the fuck did you see me say"that genocide was ok" you have it in quotes so you must have seen it somewhere .where the fuck did you see me say I supported the invasion of a sovereign nation? "that's different cause we're 'merkins" sounds something like a repuke would say along with putting words in peoples mouth to suit their argument, if the shoes fits asshole!!

I said HW didn't have the balls to finish the first gulf war then explained that according to THEM he was a tyrant so according to THEM they should have taken him out!!

I didn't say it was ok genocide because he didn't put him in power, I said he kinda inherited the mess didn't I?

Now I know why this place is so fucked up, people see what they want to see and if they don't understand something the jump the the worse conclusions possible.

[noamnety]

120. Yes, it did sound like something a republican would say

as did this: "HW didn't have the balls to finish .. to finish the first gulf war."

The reason it sounds like a republican is that there was a genocide, and instead of condemning it, you are excusing and defending it.

Why not just say "That was a horrible horrible thing, a disgrace to humanity." There was no "mess" he inherited that justified that. Having a tyrant in another country is not an "inherited mess" for OUR country that justifies genocide of THEIR citizens.

There's some seriously through-the-looking-glass logic going on here. He was a tyrant - doesn't that mean we should be worried about HIM committing genocide and starving the masses? I don't know when it became our job to preemptively out-tyrant the tyrants by torturing/starving the people who live under their rule - just in case they were planning to do it later themselves.

[madmom]

132. Just where exactly did I "excuse and defend" genocide?, I said

it wasn't ALL on Clinton's hands, you really like putting words in peoples mouths don't you?

As far as this:

"There's some seriously through-the-looking-glass logic going on here. He was a tyrant - doesn't that mean we should be worried about HIM committing genocide and starving the masses? I don't know when it became our job to preemptively out-tyrant the tyrants by torturing/starving the people who live under their rule - just in case they were planning to do it later themselves."

What the fuck did you just say??????????????

[noamnety]

133. Sure didn't sound like you were holding him accountable for his actions.

Sounded to me like you were excusing Clinton's genocide by saying it was bush sr's fault that Clinton killed a half million children - like clinton just had no choice in the matter. Sounded to me like you were defending him.

Are you defending the deaths of those children? Albright did. Are you?

[madmom]

135. I'm not defending any body's death, I'm just trying to understand how people are blaming this solely

on Clinton when republicans held the white house for 20 of the first 24 years after Johnson left office.Sounds to me like you're giving all the republicans that held any kind of power before Clinton a pass on this, are you?

[noamnety]

138. I'm saying that CLINTON instituted sanctions

- and specifically refused to drop those sanctions despite pressure from the UN to drop the sanctions, and despite knowing the devastating effects the sanctions were having on the civilian population of the country.

I'm not blaming him for Saddam being in power. I'm blaming him for HIS decisions, which were genocidal and deliberate.

[madmom]

139. and I'm saying if saddam were not put in power by the US

the political climate would have been much different, they ALL have a finger in this pie. Now I'm not going to argue anymore you're mind is made up and so is mine 'nuff said. good-bye!

[noamnety]

141. Given the existing political climate

Clinton did something that was horribly and ethically wrong.

No president can help the conditions they inherit. (Excluding of course ones who were senators and actively voted FOR those conditions, which will likely be the case for the next president.)

Once they have the job, they are responsible for the decisions they make in response to those pre-existing circumstances. His decisions were genocidal in nature, and caused more suffering in Iraq than the people would have gone through under their "tyrant."

That's in quotes not because I'm questioning Saddam's position as tyrant, but because if Clinton caused more suffering than Saddam did, I'm not sure why we are using the term for one of them but not the other.

[SOS]

123. Nixon put Hussein into power in 1979?

Might want to check facts on that claim.

[madmom]

134. you might want to do a little more fact checking yourself...

http://www.fantompowa.net/Flame/cia_iraq.htm

[bornskeptic]

140. JFK was President in 1963 during the first coup,

and LBJ was President in 1968 when the second coup was executed, so I'm afraid we can't blame Nixon for this one.

[LandOLincoln]

131. On edit: self-delete. I'm not getting into this. n/t

[jackson_dem]

66. Which Gore supported

[Barack_America]

47. Michigan is still suffering the effects of NAFTA...

So, no, it's not just personal.

[HughBeaumont]

113. As is Ohio.

We're ALL in the same world of shit thanks to NAFTA, "free trade" (as in "free" lunches for corporations while they "trade" American jobs) and job offshoring.

And I'll be DAMNED if that kind of rhetoric is going in the White House again.

[Deja Q]

73. For the latter, I agree.

But Reagan wouldn't have stopped the participants of the polar bear club just because the water was too cold and would stop their hearts from beating... they would continue to do so anyway. Fortunately, few died, but even a blood relative of mine* says "everybody has a choice".

* I'll wait to get the knee-jerk pissing comments before I divulge what her beliefs are. That alone will give the parrots a proverbial cardiac arrest... or maybe I shouldn't... oh well. It's my turn.

[oasis]

50. Clinton's administration created 22 million new jobs.(eom)

[Deja Q]

72. Government jobs? Or did corporations do that?

Since, in reality, it had to be the latter, how will a politician encourage corporations to hire Americans again?

Is that not the real question? Or at least a question?

[oasis]

77. What's real are the twenty two million Americans who got jobs under Clinton.(eom)

[SOS]

124. Old joke on Clinton's job creation...

Clinton: I created 22 million new jobs.

Man in audience: Yeah, and I've got three of 'em.

[SammyWinstonJack]

56. Reagan did a number on Pa. I lived in Pittsburgh in the early 80's.

[Roland99]

91. NAFTA was big. DMCA was another one.

[OzarkDem]

117. Blame Bush I for NAFTA

Clinton put curbs and conditions on NAFTA to protect the US economy. Its not his fault that Bush and the GOP Congress ignored violations and refused to enforce them.

The biggest problem with NAFTA was when countries like China and Mexico began dumping products into the US market by ignoring or rigging the system. Failure to deal with those problems wasn't Clinton's fault.

[sunonmars]

6. judging by your responses, I'm ashamed of you guys

I though I was on a democrats blog, or am I on Red State.

[cali]

12. fine. I could care less

whether you're ashamed. Bill Clinton is not a god. He was a middling to OK president who made a shitload of bad decisions along with the good ones. And he did it right up until his last days and pardoning Marc Rich.

[1corona4u]

54. Middling to OK? Hardly....

Clinton left office with a 65% approval rating, the highest end-of-presidency rating of any President that came into office after World War II.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Clinton

Trash it all you want, but personal issues aside, his approval rating says more than your myopic opinion.

[jackson_dem]

67. Middling to ok? He was the best president since the 60's

[Political Heretic]

101. What a load of horse crap.

[jackson_dem]

105. Who was better? Reagan?

[TankLV]

78. figures you'd chime in abou now - right on schedule...

God I wish Clinton were STILL President, instead of the WAR Criminal that STOLE the way into OUR White House...

[durrrty libby]

20. They are a small petty and one dimensional bunch and do not

represent the majority of dems.

Bill Clinton has a positive rating of 89% from democrats, and

the other 11% post here. pffffst

[FiveGoodMen]

36. Blind team loyalty is how the republicans got so bad. Stop trying to ruin the Dems the same way.

[noamnety]

58. You're on something far scarier than either of those.

You're on a site where people engage in actual critical thinking.

[Crunchy Frog]

97. I think you need to grow up and get a thicker skin

if you're going to participate on a political site during primary season. Hillary is running for president on her husbands record, and she has people running against her, and people on this board who support her opponents. If you only want to see warm and fuzzy things about the Clintons, then maybe you should just hang out at the blog at her site (if she has one, I don't know) or start your own Hillary supporters blog or something.

[cobalt1999]

118. This may be a democratic message board, but..

it, in no way, comes close to representing the average democrats opinions. It is far to the left and, as a message board, much more extremist in it's judgments of others.

Take it for entertainment and get out in the real world, you'll see most people would LOVE to return to a Bill Clinton presidency.

[Rock_Garden]

8. Exactly.

[Scriptor Ignotus]

9. then maybe he shouldn't pontificate about his wife's campaign

I'm posting responses in direct criticism about things he's said recently. I can only speak for myself on this issue of course.

[book_worm]

10. I think it's fair to criticize the Clinton presidency

if you find certain things in that record not so great. Yes, he did many good things but he also supported NAFTA and his welfare reform program was something I disagreed with because I thought it was very GOP lite. Yes he won in '92 and '96 but got a lot of help by Ross Perot. In both elections he got less than 50% of the vote. Gore and Kerry both got more votes for president than Clinton ever did and in Gore's case he did it with a liberal third party challenger on the ballot (Nader).

[aquart]

29. It's NAFTA I hate. And bank deregulation.

[Missy M]

11. The Obama supporters are out in full force....

tonight so don't pay too much attention. I guess they think this is the way to get him elected. Very sad.

[Crunchy Frog]

98. Yes, how dare they support someone besides Hillary?

[sunonmars]

13. I can handle you slamming his recent remarks

but dont DARE criticize his Presidency and drag it into the gutter.

[book_worm]

16. "but don't DARE criticize his presidency..." who made you hall monitor?

[babylonsister]

18. He dragged it into the gutter all by himself. How old are you? Don't

you remember? Were you proud of him? Don't you think he harmed our party? And exactly why do you think Dems are so gun shy about even attempting impeachment today? Hmmm? Think Clinton had anything to do with that?

[ursi]

24. it was an embarassing end to 8 years of scandals, investigations, rumor, innuendo

and other nightmares.

[LostinVA]

26. Manufactured RW scandals, runors, investifations, etc.

[ProSense]

15. Here

read this, this and this.

[BootinUp]

17. Give it up. They have "independent disease". nt

[jefferson_dem]

21. Deal.

If he wants to play the role of angry old ass, he's gonna get called on it.

[Bread and Circus]

23. I'm not a Democrat so back up a step...

This is www.democraticunderground.com

It's not

www.dnc.org
or
www.dlc.org

It's a forum board and attracts a wide range of liberals and progressives.

No where in the rules does it say you can't criticize an ex U.S. President if he was a Democrat (or a Democrat acting like a Republican in Clinton's case).

Please, we don't need any more thought police here.

[Bluebear]

55. "I'm not a Democrat" - - - ah, what is your party?

[Bread and Circus]

84. I don't have one, I abhor party politics. It's ruined the country enough as it is.

[LostinVA]

25. THANK YOU

Yes, lots of concerned posters using HRC as a chance to slam a Dem president.

RW memes, "jokes," Monica Lewisky, etc.

[aquart]

27. Yeah, yeah.

We're actually ALLOWED to say rude things about NAFTA and bank deregulation. I did at the time and I have no intention of pretending it wasn't a mistake at the time.

[William769]

28. When you have no way of defending your candidate

The next best course is to go after the last sitting Democratic President.

[sunonmars]

32. You'd swear you'd walked into a republican caucus

its abysmal

[goldcanyonaz]

31. I agree, but he's no Reagan.

:sarcasm:

[MagickMuffin]

33. DLC, thru & thru

If you know your history on his presidency then you would know that he didn't do US any favors.

He took this party farther to the "right" then any other president in our party.

He hurt the working families of the poor, and middle class. He did whatever the GOP wanted him to do.

I am not ashamed of myself for not liking BC. He brought that on himself. Respect is EARNED not rewarded. Just because he was a president doesn't mean he automatically deserves to have my respect. He betrayed MY trust and MY vote the first time around, which he didn't get the second time around, because of his RW philosophy. I wouldn't have voted for him the first time either, but I wanted Poppy out.

BC might not have won if Ross Perot hadn't taken votes from the rethuglicans.



HOW DARE YOU! Thinking you can control what other people can say about our presidents.

[jackson_dem]

68. Real wages for the poor/middle class rose for the first time since the 70's, povety fell under Bill

[MagickMuffin]

76. Only to cause hardships on those very people

under his "leadership" he allowed prisoners to be shipped out of states which made it harder for families to visit their loved ones. He "reformed" welfare, he encouraged tougher drug laws and sentencing guidelines (( which he claimed AFTER leaving office that Cannabis should be legalized, of course he couldn't have done anything about that right ))

Yep, he really did some good. I'd have to say BC is a mixed bag, some good-some bad.

[jackson_dem]

106. Most people aren't in the smaller. Clinton was great for the middle-class and working poor

Welfare is debatable. He hurt many of the people on it. Still, the final tally shows Clinton reduced poverty by seven million. That is almost certainly the best since LBJ.

[Auntie Bush]

93. Now that's a ridiculous statement

"He hurt the working families of the poor, and middle class. He did whatever the GOP wanted him to do."

He HELPED the poor and working families more than any president ever.
Where have you been? :shrug: Obviously not paying attention or studying history.

By the way...he had a Rethug congress and it was kind of difficult (almost impossible if he weren't such a good politician and it takes a good politician to get things accomplished in Washington...think Johnson) to get all his democratic issues passed as he'd like and was forced to compromise. It's called NEGOTIATION and politics. That's why he accomplished so much.
Yes, he wasn't as liberal as you may have wanted...but he HAD to drop some of his objectives in order to win the election...which he did...thank goodness! Thank you Bill Clinton. I :loveya: Bill and I'll sleep better at night knowing you will be right there advising Hillary if she wins. I said advising...not telling her what to do or controlling her and I do believe she is more progressive than he ever was.

[MagickMuffin]

96. You talk about me "knowing my history" Clinton came into DC with a FULL Democratic MAJORITY

His presidency was also quickly challenged. On the heels of a failed attempt at health care reform with a Democratic Congress, Republicans won control of the House of Representatives for the first time in 40 years.

The election also gave the Democrats full control of both branches of Congress, the House of Representatives and the Senate. Clinton was the first president to enjoy this privilege since Jimmy Carter in the late 1970s.


I'm guessing he couldn't accomplish much within his own party. He had TWO years and instead of increasing our seats in congress he lost BOTH HOUSES. Whew, that's HARD WORK.

He HELPED the poor and working families more than any president ever.
Where have you been? Obviously not paying attention or studying history.

I think FDR did more for the poor and middle class than BC, IMHO.

[Auntie Bush]

121. I KNOW he had control for the first two years and then lost it

but guess why he lost it? Trying to help gays in the military as his first attempt for reform. He lost a lot of bigoted voters for that attempt. Then he and Hillary TRIED to get us all health care but that failed (not his or her fault) because of swiftboat type advertising and dirty political maneuvers in congress. Plus the fact the disgusting evil right wing was already in full swing and poisoned their constituents. It's a miracle he was able to accomplish anything or win the next election.

[MagickMuffin]

137. I guess THEY didn't TRY hard enough to FIGHT for UNIVERSAL HEALTHCARE

One of the most prominent items on Clinton's legislative agenda was a health care reform plan, the result of a taskforce headed by Hillary Clinton, aimed at achieving universal coverage via a national healthcare plan.

Though initially well-received in political circles, it was ultimately doomed by well-organized opposition from conservatives, the American Medical Association, and the health insurance industry. However, John F. Harris, a biographer of Clinton's, states that the program failed because of a lack of co-ordination within the White House. Despite his party holding a majority in the House and Senate, the effort to create a national healthcare system ultimately died under heavy public pressure. It was the first major legislative defeat of Clinton's administration.

The Progressive Policy Institute (501c4 think tank, "Bill Clinton's idea mill", founded 1989) which is headed by PNACer Will Marshall.

Will Marshall is one of the founders of the New Democrat movement, which aims to steer the US Democratic Party toward a more centrist orientation. Since its founding in 1989, he has been president of the Progressive Policy Institute, a think tank affiliated with the Democratic Leadership Council.

He recently served on the board of the Committee for the Liberation of Iraq, an organization chaired by Joe Lieberman and John McCain designed to build bipartisan support for the invasion of Iraq. Marshall also signed, at the outset of the war, a letter issued by the Project for the New American Century (PNAC) expressing support for the invasion. Marshall signed a similar letter sent to President Bush put out by the Social Democrats USA on Feb. 25, 2003, just before the invasion. The SDUSA letter urged Bush to commit to "maintaining substantial U.S. military forces in Iraq for as long as may be required to ensure a stable, representative regime is in place and functioning."



He writes frequently on political and public policy matters, especially the "Politics of Ideas" column in Blueprint, the DLC's magazine. Notably, he is one of the co-authors of Progressive Internationalism: A Democratic National Security Strategy.

You will never convince me that BC was a great president. It will never happen. He was more concerned about "working" with the GOP and his insane New Democrat approach which was mainly responsible for the Third Way philosophy of governance that came to epitomize his two terms as president. His policies, on issues such as the North American Free Trade Agreement, have been described as "centrist."

When you owe your political career to the DLC, then you know you are not a free agent.

Corporate contributors to the DLC and New Democratic Network include Bank One, Citigroup, Dow Chemical, DuPont, General Electric, Health Insurance Corporation of America, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Philip Morris, RJR Nabisco, Chevron, Prudential Foundation, Amoco Foundation, AT&T, Morgan Stanley, Occidental Petroleum, Raytheon, and many other Fortune 500 companies.

You WORK for the "moneymen" within the DLC.

I don't hold out much hope for any reformed healthcare under any of our democratic leaders. We will see the same thing happening over and over again. The Healthcare Lobbyist will write the new laws, and the wealthy ONE Percenters will make out like bandits and "WE the People" will get squat.

[Tropics_Dude83]

34. Yep

Yep but he left us with a minority of the state governorships, a minority in the house and a 55-45 senate minority.

He got himslf elected sure but not down-ticket dems.

[mtnsnake]

35. This is the Anti-Clinton Underground, don't you know?

I agree it's pathetic. Don't worry too much about it though. This is like fucking Ga-Ga Land here. In real life, Bill Clinton is just as much a rock star today as he ever was.

We were fortunate to have him as our President for two great terms.

[Mojambo]

37. You just might have to get over yourself.

Clinto sold out to corporations on a whole host of issues during his "paradise" presidency.

Some people are fine with it (DLCers) and a lot of people aren't, myself included.

Democratic and Republican are just words. Actions matter. And many of President Clinton's actions flat out SUCKED.

[Perry Logan]

38. Take the Logan Challenge: refrain from attacking Democratic leaders for 1 day. You'll feel better.

You might even have the time and energy to, you know, strike a blow against Republicans.

[babylonsister]

40. When did this miraculous day start?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=389x2710260#2710320

[Mojambo]

44. douche chill. n/t

[Milo_Bloom]

39. Yeah, Michael Moore should be ashamed of himself.

Micahel Moore spent plenty of time in his books "slamming" the Clinton presidency... why?

Because it deserved to be slammed.

From NAFTA, media consolodation, welfare "reform", the DMCA and so many other things, sorry, but Clinton does not get a pass because he has a D next to his name.

In fact, you can actually THANK Clinton for what bush has been able to do, because much of it is just the right wing extension of Clinton's legacy.

[VarnettaTuckpocket]

71. I'm sure Moore has *some* appreciation for Clinton's presidency and thinks...

his presidency was vastly superior to any Republican's. And that's all the OP is asking for, showing *some* respect for Bill. He was vastly superior to Reagan for instance. It's totally illogical and hyperbolic to say Bill was just as bad as a Republican, just because he wasn't consistently liberal.

[Milo_Bloom]

88. Here is SOME respect.. he wasn't as bad as a republican.

However, he did lay the groundwork for one.

[L0oniX]

41. LOL n/t

[EFerrari]

Go look up what Clinton did for working people and then get back to me.

[jackson_dem]

69. More than anyone since LBJ

[EFerrari]

85. Does NAFTA ring any bells for you?

[jackson_dem]

107. Do rising real wages for the first time since the 70's, 22 million jobs, lower poverty ring any bell

[Political Heretic]

102. Hey nice blank post to back that up. :)

[travelingtypist]

42. Call Mike Malloy and tell him that.

As Mike says, Bill Clinton was the best Republican president
we've ever had.

[stravu9]

45. I Recall The Caucus The 1st Time He Ran..

The Clinton group was separate from Harkin, etc. the battle cry amoung the party at that time was "ANYONE BUT CLINTON!"
Did NOT support Kyoto.
Did Support NAFTA!
De-regulated the Cable Industry.
Did NOT revoke "Favored Nation Status" of China dispite Tianamin Square!

Just because he was a Democrat in Name doesn't mean he was FDR!
Nixon passed more liberal policies than Clinton!

[gdaerin]

46. You should be ashamed of yourself!

Sorry, I actually don't mean that, but I thought I'd give you a taste of your own rudeness.

Here's what I really think: I think for myself, and after all that I've read about Clinton(Bill), I Am ashamed of him, as an American, democrat, whatever.

[bunnies]

49. On Nafta, On Doma, On dont ask dont tell,

On Al-shifa, On lying to the American people! How dare anyone be opposed to any of those things? I mean really. How dare they!

[AlertLurker]

52. I met him twice. Utterly charming and great sense of humour, too.

Fun guy to have at a dinner party - entertaining and loves to be the centre of attention. Believe it or not, Hillary can be the same way, when she chooses to turn on the charm.

Not overly impressed with what NAFTA has done to my country's economy, however, but I'd be pretty foolish to blame NAFTA on Bill Clinton ALONE...

[tishaLA]

53. You musta missed the ones denegrating Feingold

who, unlike Clinton, is a real progressive.

[MH1]

59. Yeah, and he effed things up so that Gore couldn't follow him.

Not to mention NAFTA and welfare deform and Telecommunications Act and...

Anyway, let's be real. His legacy would be a lot better off if Hillary wasn't trying to re-install him as President.

[niceypoo]

61. Apparently supporting Obama means you have to hate everyone else

It's bizarre

[hayu_lol]

65. Some of you guys need to go read the bartcop archives...

Bart makes the point easily that when the Clintons, Bill, Hillary and Chelsea, their cats and dogs were under constant right wing attack...many dems put the knife in their backs. And, some of you are still doing it. Maybe with a little support, Clinton might have done more that you could have approved of.

Some of you must really admire the Bush family.

[robbedvoter]

81. Yup. A good way to restore perspective http://www.bartcop.com/

You don't have to agree with Bart of everything - but he's been at it since the 90s - fighting the good fight.
http://www.bartcop.com/

[Deja Q]

70. Waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah

n/t

[More Than A Feeling]

74. I'm so glad we put you in charge of deciding who "real" democrats are.

Oh, wait, we didn't, you're just under the mistaken impression that your outrage has more value than it does.

[mustang]

75. Thank You! Bill Clinton is the most accomplished Democrat in our lifetime. He deserves respect.

[TankLV]

79. God - I miss BILL CLINTON!

Peace
Hope
Prosperity

stretching far into the future.

the possibilities were endless...

and this is the time/man these idiots disparage...

shamefull...

[robbedvoter]

80. Actually, GOP didn't win nationally since 1988 - stole 2 so far - Gore, Kerry won

other than that, i do agree with the sentiment. While not perfect, his presidency delayed the fascist Reagan plan for 8 years. To hear some here, he was worst than Bush 9or Raygun). And that is wrong!
Considering that Clinton governed with a hostile congress,(some of the "dems" in that senate are now ploting with Bloomberg to sabotage Hillary) he achieved plenty.

[IndianaGreen]

82. Bill Clinton began Plan Colombia and kept School of Americas open, with a new name.

Have you no shame? Lyndon Johnson was also "OUR DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENT" as you wrote in caps, but he was also a war criminal, a man that launched a land war in Southeast Asia on the basis of lies. Millions died and suffered untold horrors on his account. It was Johnson who had the Army spy on Americans, and had death squads murder and torture Vietnamese civilians.

A similar close scrutiny of Bill Clinton's Administration will reveal a litany of human rights abuses and violations of international law.

The letter "D" after a politician's name does not bestow the person with divine virtues.

[Catherine Vincent]

83. They are former republicans and trolls.

What are you goanna do? :shrug:

[Nedsdag]

87. I'm not "slamming" the Clinton presidency.

I want to take another perspective on it.

Remember, this IS a free country and people--especially those who are on DU--have a right to their opinion whether you agree with it or disagree.

[zulchzulu]

89. This confused series of kneejerk reactions about how great Bill Clinton was is brought to you by...

NAFTA. Ahora tenemos sus trabajos!

[MrSlayer]

90. Hi. Unlike the idiot Republicans, we are able to criticize our own.

We don't worship someone just because they have a (D) after their name. Clinton was an "O.K." President. Was not great by any means and certainly was no liberal. He did as many fucked up things as he did good things. If, and it's a big if in my opinion, we happen to capture the Presidency this year you can bet we will be right on whoever wins' ass the second they take office. We hold our people to account.

Don't tell me I'm not a real Democrat because I rightly call out someone doing bad shit regardless of party. That's what we are about, that's what it is to be a Democrat.

[SecularNATION]

92. Had it? Too bad

Bill Clinton deserves much of the flack he's received. His DLC nonsense was NOT good for the United States, then or now. In many ways, his actions, set the stage for what the GOP has been able to accomplish, since. What I hold him most in contempt for is wasting his immense talent. The man was arguably the most talented politician in a generation. What did he do with that talent? Did he lead? Not really. He watched the polls. He played it safe. He took corporate money.

I am sick and tired of the Bushes AND the Clintons. I'd love to see them all leave the scene. If Hillary stays in the Senate, fine. I don't want her as POTUS, however. If she gets in, it'll be Corporate State continued.

[bpeale]

94. i didn't vote for him either time so i can say anything i want

[Crunchy Frog]

95. Face it, it's going to happen.

His wife is running for the presidency largely on his record, and guess what; SHE HAS OPPONENTS!!!11!!1

Surprise surprise!!! People actually run against their opponents and their records during elections, and their opponents supporters attack their records too!

You need to grow up and get a thicker skin if you want to participate on a political board during primary season.

[BenDavid]

99. obama, what about President Bill Clinton, you disparage and

discount? What did William Jefferson Clinton do for blacks and Latinos?
Really, Mr. Obama? The Republicans have been the party of ideas for the past ten to fifteen years? Including the last seven years of Bill Clinton’s administration? Really, Mr. Obama?

Since the economy is the hot topic these days, let’s just look at what President Clinton did for minorities in terms of economic gains — even though Obama dismisses those achievements. From a U.S. government Web site in April 1999:

Unemployment Rate for African Americans and Hispanics Remains Historically Low. Under President Clinton and Vice President Gore, the Hispanic unemployment rate has dropped from 11.3 percent in January 1993 to a record low of 5.8 percent in March 1999. The unemployment rate for African Americans has fallen from 14.1 percent in January 1993 to 8.1 percent in March 1999–one of the lowest levels on record for African Americans.

Here are additional economic accomplishments of the Clinton/Gore administration — as of 1999 (during the administration’s second term) — that also had a direct positive effect for minorities:

18.2 Million New Jobs. …
Unemployment at 4.2 Percent in March …
Highest Share of New Jobs in Private Sector in 50 Years. Since the President and Vice President took office, the private sector has added 16.7 million new jobs–with 2.4 million jobs added in the past year. Since 1993, 92 percent of the 18.2 million new jobs have been in the private sector–the highest percentage in 50 years.
Fastest and Longest Real Wage Growth in Two Decades. Last month, average hourly earnings increased 0.2 percent. Under the Clinton-Gore Administration, real wages have risen 6.1 percent–compared to declining 4.3 percent during the Reagan and Bush Administrations. After adjusting for inflation, wages have increased almost 2.7 percent in 1998–the fastest real wage growth in more than two decades and the third year in a row–the longest sustained growth since the early 1970s.
Construction Jobs Are Coming Back. …
Manufacturing Jobs Have Increased. After losing 2.1 million manufacturing jobs between 1981 and 1992, the economy has created 350,000 new manufacturing jobs since 1993. After losing 46,000 jobs in the auto industry during the Bush Administration, the United States has 147,000 new auto industry jobs under the Clinton-Gore Administration.
Inflation Rate Is the Lowest Since the 1950s. …
President Clinton signed the Omnibus Budget Reconciliation Act of 1993, “which passed Congress without a single Republican vote.”

It raised taxes on the wealthiest 1.2% of taxpayers,<35> while cutting taxes for 15 million low-income families and making tax cuts available to 90% of small businesses.<36> Additionally, it mandated that the budget be balanced over a number of years, through the implementation of spending restraints.

Listen, Mr. Obama. If you think that President Clinton and Vice President Gore accomplished those amazing turnarounds for the economy and for minorities by singing “Kumbayah” with Republicans, you’ve just shown how naive you are.

And you’ve exposed how uninformed you are about the brutal history of U.S. politics where every progressive step is spattered with the blood, sweat and tears of all who fought so hard for those gains.

Shalom
Ben David

[Seeker30]

109. Yep

And lets not forget he got minimum wage raised twice in the middle of all that, something in which republicans claimed would be bad for the economy actually helped it.

[Political Heretic]

100. He was a terrible President. Deal with it.

http://www.alternet.org/story/72336/?page=entire

The most glaring example is Bai's bizarre assertion that Clinton "almost single-handedly pulled the Democratic Party back from its slide into irrelevance." The historical fact is that when Clinton took office, the Democratic Party controlled both houses of Congress and a majority of state governorships. By the time he left office, the Republicans controlled both Houses of Congress and two-thirds of the governorships. By the numbers, it was Clintonism that relegated the Democratic Party to the shadows.

The Telecommunications Act of 1996

Financial Services Modernization Act overturned the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933.

Personal Responsibility and Work Opportunity Reconciliation Act, which, for the first time in 60 years, eliminated the federal safety net for the poor

NAFTA

DOMA

If you are not familiar with how bad these things are, you should probably stop talking.

[Political Heretic]

104. Ok you know what? Terrible is too strong:

I try to be fair, and someone else said it better. His presidency was "mixed" to put it kindly. The problem is that the bad was so bad for so many people that it kind of overshadows the good for me. I was severely hurt and disappointed by the Clinton presidency.

[OneBlueSky]

108. well, he was no FDR . . . but he was also no George W. Bush . . . n/t

.

[Seeker30]

110. If it werent for The Telecommunications Act

you wouldnt have a means to post your dribble.

[Political Heretic]

125. That is an outright lie.

[Perry Logan]

111. He was an excellent President. Deal with it.

The awesome Clinton record:

longest economic expansion in American history--a record 115 months of economic expansion
More than 22 million new jobs: more than 22 million jobs were created in less than eight years -- the most ever under a single administration
Highest home ownership in American history
Made the Federal government smaller (a feat matched only by Harry Truman; if you like small government, vote Democratic)
Lowest unemployment in 30 years: unemployment dropped from more than 7 percent in 1993 to just 4.0 percent in November 2000; unemployment for African Americans and Hispanics fell to the lowest rates on record, and the rate for women was the lowest in more than 40 years
Largest expansion of college opportunity since the GI Bill
Connected 95 percent of schools to the Internet
Lowest crime rate in 26 years.
Family and Medical Leave Act for 20 million Americans
Smallest welfare rolls in 32 years
Higher incomes at all levels: after falling by nearly $2,000 between 1988 and 1992, the median family's income rose by $6,338, after adjusting for inflation; all income brackets experienced double-digit growth; the bottom 20 percent saw the largest income growth at 16.3 percent
Lowest poverty rate in 20 years: the poverty rate declined from 15.1 percent to 11.8 percent in 1999--the largest six-year drop in poverty in nearly 30 years
Lowest teen birth rate in 60 years
Lowest infant mortality rate in American history
Deactivated more than 1,700 nuclear warheads from the former Soviet Union: efforts of the Clinton-Gore Administration led to the dismantling of more than 1,700 nuclear warheads, 300 launchers and 425 land and submarine based missiles from the former Soviet Union
Paid off $360 billion of the national debt: under Clinton, we were on track to pay off the entire debt by 2009; what a difference a stolen election makes...
Converted the largest budget deficit in American history to the largest surplus
Lowest government spending in three decades
Lowest federal income tax burden in 35 years
More families owned stock than ever before
Most New Jobs Ever Created Under a Single Administration: Republicans really chew the rug when you mention this one, so it's worth repeating constantly
Median Family Income Up $6,000 since 1993
Unemployment at Its Lowest Level in More than 30 Years
Highest Home ownership Rate on Record
7 Million Fewer Americans Living in Poverty
Largest Surplus Ever
Lower Federal Government Spending: after increasing under the previous two administrations, federal government spending as a share of the economy was cut from 22.2 percent in 1992 to 18 percent in 2000--the lowest level since 1966
The Most U.S. Exports Ever: between 1992 and 2000, U.S. exports of goods and services grew by 74 percent, or nearly $500 billion, to top $1 trillion for the first time
Lowest Inflation since the 1960s: inflation was at the lowest rate since the Kennedy Administration, averaging 2.5 percent, down from 4.6 percent during the previous administration
The child poverty rate declined more than 25 percent
The poverty rate for single mothers was the lowest ever
The African American and elderly poverty rates dropped to their lowest level on record
The Hispanic poverty rate dropped to its lowest level since 1979
Lowest Poverty Rate for Single Mothers on Record: under President Clinton, the poverty rate for families with single mothers fell from 46.1 percent in 1993 to 35.7 percent in 1999, the lowest level on record
Smallest Welfare Rolls Since 1969: between January 1993 and September of 1999, the number of welfare recipients dropped by 7.5 billion (a 53 percent decline) to 6.6 million. In comparison, between 1981-1992, the number of welfare recipients increased by 2.5 million (a 22 percent increase) to 13.6 million people
Lowest Federal Income Tax Burden in 35 Years: Federal income taxes as a percentage of income for the typical American family dropped to their lowest level in 35 years
Higher Incomes even after Taxes and Inflation: real after-tax incomes grew by an average of 2.6 percent per year for the lower-income half of taxpayers between 1993 and 1997, while growing by an average of 1.0 percent between 1981 and 1993
AGAINST TERRORISM

# PRESIDENT BILL CLINTON developed the nation's first anti-terrorism policy, and appointed first national coordinator of anti-terrorist efforts.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold the Al Qaeda millennium hijacking and bombing plots.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to kill the Pope.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up 12 U.S. jetliners simultaneously.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up UN Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up FBI Headquarters.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the Israeli Embassy in Washington.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Boston airport.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up Lincoln and Holland Tunnels in NY.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the George Washington Bridge.
# Bill Clinton stopped cold a planned attack to blow up the US Embassy in Albania.
# Bill Clinton tried to kill Osama bin Laden and disrupt Al Qaeda through preemptive strikes (efforts denounced by the G.O.P.).
# Bill Clinton brought perpetrators of first World Trade Center bombing and CIA killings to justice.
# Bill Clinton did not blame the Bush I administration for first World Trade Center bombing even though it occurred 38 days after Bush left office. Instead, worked hard, even obsessively -- and successfully -- to stop future terrorist attacks.
# Bill Clinton named the Hart-Rudman commission to report on nature of terrorist threats and major steps to be taken to combat terrorism.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to tighten airport security. (Remember, this is before 911) The legislation was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the airlines.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to allow for better tracking of terrorist funding. It was defeated by Republicans in the Senate because of opposition from banking interests.
# Bill Clinton sent legislation to Congress to add tagents to explosives, to allow for better tracking of explosives used by terrorists. It was defeated by the Republicans because of opposition from the NRA.
# Bill Clinton increased the military budget by an average of 14 per cent, reversing the trend under Bush I.
# Bill Clinton tripled the budget of the FBI for counterterrorism and doubled overall funding for counterterrorism.
# Bill Clinton detected and destroyed cells of Al Qaeda in over 20 countries.
# Bill Clinton created national stockpile of drugs and vaccines including 40 million doses of smallpox vaccine.
# Of Clinton's efforts says Robert Oakley, Reagan Ambassador for Counterterrorism: "Overall, I give them very high marks" and "The only major criticism I have is the obsession with Osama".
# Paul Bremer, current Civilian Administrator of Iraq disagrees slightly with Robert Oakley as he believed the Bill Clinton Administration had "correctly focused on bin Laden.
# Barton Gellman in the Washington Post put it best, "By any measure available, Bill Clinton left office having given greater priority to terrorism than any president before him" and was the "first administration to undertake a systematic anti-terrorist effort".
http://liberalslikechrist.org/about/clinton.html
ON THE ENVIRONMENT
Bill Clinton issued an Executive Order on Environmental Justice to ensure that low-income citizens and minorities do not suffer a disproportionate burden of industrial pollution. Launched pilot projects in low-income communities across the country to redevelop contaminated sites into useable space, create jobs and enhance community development.

President Bill Clinton sought permanent funding of $1.4 billion a year through the Lands Legacy initiative to expand federal efforts to save America's natural treasures and provide significant new resources to states and communities to protect local green spaces and protect ocean and coastal resources. Won $652 million for Lands Legacy in the FY 2000 budget, a 42 percent increase.

Launched effort to protect over 40 million acres of "roadless areas," which include some of America's last wild places. Dramatically improved management of our national forests with an ambitious new science-based agenda that places greater emphasis on recreation, wildlife and water quality, while reforming logging practices to ensure steady, sustainable supplies of timber and jobs. Balanced the preservation of old-growth stands with the economic needs of timber-dependent communities through the Pacific Northwest Forest Plan.

Adopted a uniform tailpipe standard to passenger cars, SUVs and other light-duty trucks, producing cars that are 77 percent cleaner -- and light-duty trucks up to 95 percent cleaner -- than those on the road today. Set new standard to reduce average sulfur levels in gasoline by up to 90 percent. Once fully implemented in 2030, these measures will prevent 43,000 premature deaths and 173,000 cases of childhood respiratory illness each year, and reduce emissions by the equivalent to removing 164 million cars from the road.

# Approved strong new clean air standards for soot and smog that could prevent up to 15,000 premature deaths a year and improve the lives of millions of Americans who suffer from respiratory illnesses. Defending the standards against legal assaults by polluters.

# Accelerating Toxic Waste Cleanups. Completed cleanup at 515 Superfund sites, more than three times as many as the previous two administrations, with cleanup of more than 90 percent of all sites either completed or in progress. Secured $1.4 billion in FY 2000 to continue progress toward cleaning up 900 Superfund sites by 2002.

# Providing Safe Drinking Water: Proposed and signed legislation to strengthen the Safe Drinking Water Act and ensure that our families have healthy clean tap water. Required America's 55,000 water utility companies to provide regular reports to their customers on the quality of their drinking water.

# Established EPA's Drinking Water State Revolving Fund (DWSRF) that provides grants to States to finance priority drinking water projects that meet Clean Water Act mandates. To date, the DWSRFs have provided $1.9 billion in loans to communities.

# Awarded nearly $200 million in Department of Agriculture (USDA) loans and grants for over 100 safe drinking water projects in rural areas of 40 states. USDA grants and loans target rural communities plagued by some of the nation's worst water quality and dependability problems.

# Expanded Safe Drinking Water Act protections to protect 40 million additional Americans in small communities from potentially dangerous microbes, including Cryptosporidium, in their drinking water.

# Ensuring Clean Water. Launched the Clean Water Action Plan to help clean up the 40 percent of America's surveyed waterways still too polluted for fishing and swimming. Secured $3.9 billion since 1998, a 16 percent increase, to help states, communities and landowners in reducing polluted runoff, enhancing natural resource stewardship, improving citizens' right to know, and protecting public health.

# Strengthening Communities' Right to Know. Strengthened the public's right to know about chemicals released into their air and water by partnering with the chemical industry and the environmental community in an effort to provide complete data on the potential health risks of the 2,800 most widely used chemicals. Nearly doubled the number of chemicals that industry must report to communities, while expanding the number of facilities that must report by 30 percent.

# Expanded the community right to know about releases of 27 persistent bio-accumulative toxins (including mercury, dioxin, and PCBs). These highly toxic chemicals are especially risky because they do not break down easily and are known to accumulate in the human body.

# Secured $83 million in FY 2000 for two major new efforts to restore salmon in the Pacific Northwest: $58 million for the Pacific Coastal Salmon Recovery Fund, which provides resources for states and tribes to protect and rebuild salmon stocks; and $25 million to implement the historic Pacific Salmon Treaty with Canada, which established two regional funds to improve fisheries management and enhance bilateral scientific cooperation between the two countries and provides funding to buy back fishing permits in Washington.
# Expanding Wildlife Refuges. Added 57,000 acres, including lands along the last free-flowing section of the Columbia River, to the Saddle Mountain National Wildlife Refuge to protect salmon habitat in Washington.

# Forging Partnerships to Protect Habitat. Completed 255 major Habitat Conservation Plans (HCPs), compared to 14 before the Administration took office, to protect more than 20 million acres of private land and over 170 threatened and endangered species. These voluntary agreements protect habitat while providing landowners the certainty they need to effectively manage their lands.

# Strengthening Protections for Wildlife. Signed legislation that strengthens protections for wildlife by mandating that the most important use of our nation's wildlife refuges is giving refuge to migratory birds and other animals reliant on this rich system of natural habitat.

Protecting our Oceans and Coasts

# Creating Comprehensive Oceans Policy. Directed the development of key recommendations for strengthening federal oceans policy for the 21st century and appointed a high-level task force to oversee the implementation of those recommendations. Convened a National Ocean Conference in June 1998 that brought together government experts, business executives, scientists, environmentalists, elected officials and the public to examine opportunities and challenges in restoring and protecting our ocean resources.

# Strengthening Our National Marine Sanctuaries. Secured a funding increase of over 100% to better support national marine sanctuaries -- homes to coral reefs, kelp forests, humpback whales, and loggerhead turtles. Supporting the five-year Sustainable Seas Expeditions to explore, study and document ways to better protect underwater resources.

# Preserving Coral Reefs. Issued an Executive Order to expand protection of coral reefs and their ecosystems to address issues of coral reef management, expansion of marine protected areas and increased protections for coral reef species.

# Protecting Marine Mammals. Led negotiations resulting in a multilateral agreement to protect dolphins in the eastern tropical Pacific Ocean. Issued new standards to protect the endangered northern right whale from injuries from ships by instituting a first-ever ship reporting requirement in two areas of right whale critical habitat. Fought for creation of the Southern Ocean Whale Sanctuary, an area of more than 12 million square miles off the coast of Antarctica.

# Banning Ocean Dumping of Toxic Waste. Led the world in calling for a global ban on ocean dumping of low-level radioactive waste. The U.S. was the first nuclear power to advocate the ban.

Introduced "Better America Bonds" to generate $10.75 billion in bond authority over five years to preserve open space, improve water quality and clean up abandoned and contaminated properties known as brownfields. Local communities can work together in partnerships with land trust groups, environmentalists, business leaders and others to develop innovative solutions to their community's development challenges.

# Provided leadership critical to successful negotiation of the Kyoto Protocol, which sets strong, realistic targets for reducing greenhouse gas emissions and establishes flexible, market-based mechanisms to achieve them as cost-effectively as possible.

# Investing in Clean Energy Research. Won more than $1 billion in FY 1999 and in FY 2000 for the Climate Change Technology Initiative, a program of clean energy research and development that will save energy and consumers money. Extended the tax credits for wind and biomass energy production through 2001, reducing emissions and reliance on imported oil.

# Growing Clean Energy Technologies. Issued an Executive Order to coordinate federal efforts to spur the development and use of bio-based technologies, which can convert crops, trees and other "biomass" into a vast array of fuels and materials. Set a goal of tripling our use of bioenergy and bioproducts by 2010 to reduce annual greenhouse gas emissions by up to 100 million tons a year -- the equivalent of taking 70 million cars off the road.

# Improving Scientific Understanding. Increased funding for the United States Global Change Research Program to more than $1.7 billion in FY 2000 to provide a sound scientific understanding of both the human and natural forces that influence the Earth's climate system. This record research budget continues strong support for the "Carbon Cycle Initiative" begun last year to improve our understanding of the role of farms, forests, and other natural or managed lands in capturing carbon.

# Energy Efficiency Standards for Appliances. Issued new energy efficiency standards for refrigerators, refrigerator-freezers, freezers and room air conditioners that will save consumers money and reduce emissions of greenhouse gases and dependence on foreign oil. The new standards will cut the average appliance's energy usage by 30 percent and save more than seven quadrillion BTUs of energy over the next 30 years, more than seven times the annual energy consumption of the entire state of Arkansas.

# Promoting federal Energy Efficiency. Issued an Executive Order directing federal agencies to reduce energy use in buildings 35 percent by 2010, reducing annual greenhouse gas emissions by the equivalent of taking 1.7 million cars off the road and saving taxpayers over $750 million a year. Forged new partnerships with industry to develop and promote energy-saving cars, homes and consumer products with the potential to save Americans hundreds of millions of dollars in energy bills and significantly curb greenhouse gas pollution.
http://www.environmentalcaucus.org/gore.html

PS: What about corruption?

Forget about it. As measured by the total number of convictions and forced resignations, Clinton's was the cleanest administration since Teddy Roosevelt.

[Political Heretic]

126. That is the same cut and past list that can be generated about any president

All you do is go around with the same cut and paste list, and you garuntee you have ever really investigated yourself. You just found a list the seems to support what you WANT TO BELIEVE already and spam it around the internet.

There's already one out there for cut-and-paste for Bush. One for Reagan and even Bush Sr.

They don't mean a lot. The difference between you and me is that I HAVE looked at the facts myself, and I have investigated the political campaign "spin" that comes in these kinds of lists. And they don't change what I've already pointed out:

NAFTA and its disastrous effects, the end of welfare as it stood for 60+ years, telecoms deregulation and its disastrous effects, banking deregulation and its disastrous effects and DOMA alone are enough to severely target this so-called "awesome" record. They are a black mark that ruin any ability to truly talk about how "awesome" this president was.

Clinton didn't lie - he said point blank that he wasn't a traditional democrat, and that he as a pro-business, pro-deregulation, pro-supply side free market pragmatist, and he ran his president exactly like that: catering to the interests of the privileged and business elite. The 1990's were a decade of amazing prosperity for wall street and the top 20% - meanwhile, the bottom 80% saw their wages decline or stagnate. The "boom" was very much a white collar boom, which is why business love it so much, and is so eager to have another Clinton in the white house.

[Perry Logan]

112. At this point, Obama supporters spend all their time attacking Democrats and praising Republicans.

Think about it.

[babylonsister]

115. So much for the Logan challenge, eh? :

:rofl:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4109141&mesg_id=4109554

[depakid]

119. How'd that media consolidation work out for "our Democratic party?

Just askin'

[bvar22]

122. I liked him a lot better....

before he started running for a 3rd Term.
I heard that his wife is helping him.



The Democratic Party is a BIG TENT, but there is NO ROOM for those
who advance the agenda of THE RICH (Corporate Owners) at the EXPENSE of LABOR and the POOR.

[mod mom]

127. Yeah, let's act like what the rethugs did for Reagan & make a fairy tale out of it.

Forget about NAFTA, the telecommunications act of '96, mergers of the banking industry and other facts that have all hurt the middle class to the benefit of the investor class. If Bill was a Dem, it doesn't matter if he lied under oath, or even went back on his word about allowing one of his financiers (Jackson Stephens) to build a toxic waste incinerator close to an elelmentary school on a flood plain.(East Liverpool OH). What matters is he was a Dem, so let's put him on the pedestal he deserves!

:sarcasm:

[coco77]

128. Remember some of these posters aren't Dems...

[asthmaticeog]

129. Add my voice to the anti-NAFTA chorus.

Bill Clinton murdered the working class. Fuck him in the ear with a shovel.

[allinktup]

130. I'm not angry about his presidency

I'm angry with him for what he's doing now.

[stravu9]

136. KYOTO, ANYONE?

Clinton wouldn't back it and neither would Bush. Brothers under the skin?