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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:49 PM
Original message
Clinton Signs Pledge - Clinton Breaks Pledge: The Definition of Dishonor is Clinton
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 03:01 PM by K Gardner
Let's start on September 2 of 2007

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/09/02/us/politics/02dems.html?ex=1346385600&en=e280c05ad36488d3&ei=5090&partner=rssuserland&emc=rss

September 2, 2007
Clinton, Obama and Edwards Join Pledge to Avoid Defiant States
By JEFF ZELENY

PORTSMOUTH, N.H., Sept. 1 — Three of the major Democratic presidential candidates on Saturday pledged not to campaign in Florida, Michigan and other states trying to leapfrog the 2008 primary calendar, a move that solidified the importance of the opening contests of Iowa and New Hampshire.

Hours after Senator Barack Obama of Illinois and former Senator John Edwards of North Carolina agreed to sign a loyalty pledge put forward by party officials in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton of New York followed suit. The decision seemed to dash any hopes of Mrs. Clinton relying on a strong showing in Florida as a springboard to the nomination.

“We believe Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina play a unique and special role in the nominating process,” Patti Solis Doyle, the Clinton campaign manager, said in a statement.

The pledge sought to preserve the status of traditional early-voting states and bring order to an unwieldy series of primaries that threatened to accelerate the selection process. It was devised to keep candidates from campaigning in Florida, where the primary is set for Jan. 29, and Michigan, which is trying to move its contest to Jan. 15.

The Democratic National Committee has vowed to take away Florida’s 210 delegates — and those of any other state that moved its nominating contest before Feb. 5 — if it does not come up with an alternative plan. In a statement on Saturday, Mr. Obama said he believed that the calendar put forth by the national committee was “in the best interests of our party and our nation.” At the same time, though, the pledge allows him to focus on a handful of states in an effort to gain ground on Mrs. Clinton, the presumed front-runner.

Mr. Edwards, who has said his candidacy cannot be successful without a strong performance in Iowa, said the four states chosen by the national committee “need to be first because in these states ideas count, not just money.” The pledge also could offer a lifeline to his campaign, which could not afford to compete in several states at once.

The three candidates were following the lead of Gov. Bill Richardson of New Mexico and Senators Christopher J. Dodd of Connecticut and Joseph R. Biden Jr. of Delaware, who signed the pledge Friday. Their candidacies also rely upon finishing strong in the early states.

The pledge does not apply to fund-raising events, which officials said could provide a loophole for candidates like Mr. Obama, who has held fund-raisers for as little as $25 a person that have doubled as political rallies. Campaign officials said they were awaiting a ruling from the national committee to see what type of appearances — if any — they could make.


Fast Forward to After Iowa
Clinton Camp Memo

To: Interested Parties
From: The Clinton Campaign
Regarding: Michigan and Florida Presidential Primaries

The Obama campaign today circulated a memo regarding today's Michigan primary and the January 29 Florida primary. This memo was concerning on several levels. Let us be very clear. Senator Clinton signed a pledge that she would not campaign in any state that violates the DNC approved calendar. Therefore, we did not campaign in Michigan, nor will we campaign in Florida in violation of the pledge. We have two small scheduled fundraisers in South Florida on January 27, as explicitly permitted by the pledge, but we will not hold any open public campaign events. The Obama campaign has also held numerous fundraisers in Florida since signing the pledge. Contrary to the Obama campaign's memo, there are no events at large venues, nor have we organized in the state. We intend to do so as our party's nominee in the general election, but will honor our pledge not to campaign there in violation of the pledge.

Let us be clear about something else, however. While Senator Clinton will honor her commitment not to campaign in Florida in violation of the pledge, she also intends to honor her pledge to hear the voices of all Americans. The people of Michigan and Florida have just as much of a right to have their voices heard as anyone else. It is disappointing to hear a major Democratic presidential candidate tell the voters of ANY state that their voices aren't important. Senator Clinton intends to be President for all fifty states. And while she will honor the pledge she signed and not campaign in either state, she intends to continue to give every American a voice during this election and when she gets to the White House.


Fast Forward to The Day Before a Huge Defeat in SC

http://tpmelectioncentral.com/2008/01/hillary_dnc_should_seat_the_michigan_and_florida_delegates.php
Hillary: DNC Should Seat The Michigan And Florida Delegates
By Eric Kleefeld - January 25, 2008, 4:00PM

Hillary Clinton has now issued a statement about the DNC's action in stripping Michigan and Florida of their delegates due to their rogue primaries. Hillary has called for the delegates from both states to be fully seated.

On a campaign conference call with reporters, one Clinton adviser said that the candidate is really just listening to the voters of those states, and wants them to be heard. "I think that what the senator said is that she's hearing from a lot of people that they'd like to have their voices heard." He then added that he would like to hear from the other candidates where they stand on the issue.

A cynic would note that Hillary was the only major candidate whose name was on the ballot in Michigan, running against "uncommitted," and that she is also favored to win Florida after none of the candidates campaigned in the state.

So what would the actual effect of the Michigan/Florida delegates be? If the nomination is a settled question regardless, then it really doesn't matter, and either Hillary or Obama would ultimately have them seated. But if we were looking at a brokered convention, you'd see the Hillary camp fighting for a floor vote to seat those delegates, and use the issue as a public relations weapon — much like how the brokered conventions of old would have floor fights over the seating of disputed delegations.





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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
1. Sorry - but so far it is only Obama starting national TV ads early breaking the pledge - Hillary's
not broken a damn thing re pledge-

but nice spin
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:56 PM
Response to Reply #1
3. That's B/S and you well know it. Running a national TV ad was ok'd by the DNC and is NOT in
violation. Certainly does not rise to the blatant hypocrisy of what Hillary is doing. Or did you not bother to read the articles? Much easier to defend anything/win at any cost. This is why even the establishment dems are turning in droves away from the Clintons and why South Carolina voters turned away.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #3
10. OK'd by the DNC? Got a cite for that? nt
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:08 PM
Response to Reply #3
20. Show me. Seriously, show me.
Show me where and how the DNC approved the national TV ad purchase Obama made that sent ads into Florida. I have asked others to show me also because I sincerely can not find evidence of that having happened. But first show me how the DNC is even in a position to approve any changes to that pledge or how it is interpretted. I am serious about that too, not just being difficult. Everything that I have researched so far says that this was a apecific pledge made TO THE PARTY CHAIRS OF THE 4 EARLY CONTEST STATES.

The 4 state pledge was and is seperate from any DNC ruling about what delegates should or should not be seated at the Democratic Convention. The 4 State pledge was a self standing agreement voluntarily entered into by some Democratic Candidates and the Democratic Party in those 4 States. Again, all the evidence I have seen produced plus what I have been able to find myself shows that Obama discussed this ONLY with SC's Democratic Party Chair for approval, NOT with any other State Chair involved. Is it possible that's because Obama had reason to think that the SC Chair would be sympathetic to his campaign? Regardless, the deal was not negotiated with South Carolina only.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 05:08 PM
Response to Reply #20
36. No one ever answers this. Obama is the one who broke the pledge. n/t
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mckeown1128 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 05:14 PM
Response to Reply #36
37. Even if Obama broke the pledge which many would disagree...
Hillary is the one saying that FL should be counted and Obama says that it shouldn't because it broke the rules. Obama is clearly not trying to benefit from FL. Hillary is trying to benefit from FL. BIG DIFFERENCE!
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:12 PM
Response to Reply #37
42. LOL!
Obama is "not trying to benefit from FL" because he knows he can't. Hillary is ahead there 2 to 1.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:33 PM
Response to Reply #42
46. He is trying to benefit by running ads in FL to reduce that gap
He knows it would not look good if the news coming out of Florida was that Hillary trounced him there, a couple of days before Super Tuesday.
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Jai4WKC08 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:17 PM
Response to Reply #46
50. Yes Tom
But I think the person to whom I was replying meant that Obama was not trying to benefit by not trying to get the delegates seated. My point, which was probably not clear, is that the ONLY reason he doesn't want FL's delegates seated is that he knows he won't get as many of them as Hillary.

Of course, you are also right that there is more than one way to "benefit" from FL. The media will cover it, if only because they will be covering the Republican side. Most voters outside of FL won't know or understand anything about whether FL's delegates count or why. If she trounces Obama, as it looks like she will, that's all most people will hear and it will blunt his SC momentum going into Super Tuesday.

My contention has been that regardless of whether the delegates ever get seated, it is a smart move for Hillary to try to get them. Not because of the delegate count per se, but because if/when she wins the nomination, she can tell Florida that she at least tried to make their votes count. Florida voters really WANT to vote for a Democrat this time, but they feel they are being abused by the Democratic party. It will help if the nominee at least went to bat for them.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:32 PM
Response to Reply #37
45. TWISTED logic. ha ha
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:28 PM
Response to Reply #36
44. Topic subject Obama's ad violated the pledge - no valid permission



x-posted


Forum Name General Discussion: Primaries
Topic subject Obama's ad violated the pledge - no valid permission
Topic URL http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4236461#4236461
4236461, Obama's ad violated the pledge - no valid permission
Posted by robbedvoter on Sun Jan-27-08 05:09 PM

Omce again needed to correct misleading title from here
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4235652&mesg_id=4235652
The arricle makes it clear - running the ad violated the pledge


"The Democratic National Committee stripped the state of its delegates. Then Democrats in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina followed by pushing the pledge that bans the candidates from campaigning in the state, including running television commercials or hosting rallies."
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papau Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:16 PM
Response to Reply #3
26. Bull - I posted the links yesterday - no DNC approval or NH/Iowa/NV approval - only SC chair
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ruggerson Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 05:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
41. That's a lie
the "approval" came from the SC pary chair alone.

Even Obama admits this.
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:43 PM
Response to Reply #41
48. see post 44
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jonnywishbone97 Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:52 PM
Response to Original message
2. Sounds like Obama wants to treat Floridians and Michigans
like blacks were in the early 60s. disenfranchise them. Thats a nice way to insure a republican victory in November
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
5. I'm sorry.. are you a Democrat? Did you read the PLEDGE that all the candidates
signed? Or are you just spouting bullshit like the rest of the HRC supporters? Talk to Howard Dean and the DNC before you start your Clinton/Rovian racist crap. How very typical. Billary would be proud.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:03 PM
Response to Reply #5
13. You didn't read it--it said NO CAMPAIGNING.
A visit after the primary is over isn't campaigning. The die is cast at that stage.

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Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 05:05 PM
Response to Reply #13
34. What is she doing in Florida today?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 05:43 PM
Response to Reply #34
38. Uh, the ban DOES NOT APPLY TO FUNDRAISING. Know your subject BEFORE you snark, thanks much.
Here, READ:

http://www.heraldtribune.com/article/20080123/NEWS/801230668/1001

In August, major Democratic candidates signed a pledge to not campaign in Florida as part of the state's punishment for moving up its primary election to Jan. 29 -- a week before national rules allowed.

The Democratic National Committee stripped the state of its delegates. Then Democrats in Iowa, New Hampshire, Nevada and South Carolina followed by pushing the pledge that bans the candidates from campaigning in the state, including running television commercials or hosting rallies.

The only exception in the ban is for fundraising.

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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 01:23 AM
Response to Reply #34
52. ....
Edited on Mon Jan-28-08 01:24 AM by MADem
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TheDeathadder Donating Member (731 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #5
24. "spouting bullshit like the rest of the HRC supporters"
talking about HRC supporters like that isn't cool. we're all members of the democratic party. keep it together, don't you know the repubs (And Rove) love watching us talk to each other this way?
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John Q. Citizen Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:58 PM
Response to Reply #2
6. You are very funny, Welcome to DU!
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:02 PM
Response to Reply #6
11. There seems to be a fresh crop of racebait posters at DU today. Wonder where they
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 03:11 PM by K Gardner
came from?
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #11
17. That person doesn't know the issues. But your "pro-Hillary racist" comment is out of line, too. NT
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:11 PM
Response to Reply #17
23. Agreed .. thanks for the nudge, will edit !
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. I would be careful tossing out that meme. Billary played the race card and lost.
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MADem Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:04 PM
Response to Reply #2
15. You're out of line, there. And unschooled in the issues. NT
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Big Blue Marble Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 05:07 PM
Response to Reply #2
35. Where in the world, do you come up with that "logic?" n/t
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BeyondGeography Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
4. But that was so then
and this is so now.

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calmblueocean Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 02:58 PM
Response to Original message
7. Can someone explain to me why Hillary's name was the only one on the ballot?
Just wondering what the story is there.
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Yael Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:05 PM
Original message
In Michigan? She didn't remove it.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:05 PM
Response to Reply #7
16. Hillary didn't think it was "necessary" to remove her name. See article below. I'm guessing
that she had this plan in mind all along.. just in case.

http://www.swamppolitics.com/news/politics/blog/2007/10/leaving_michigan_behind.html

Clinton still on Michigan ballot as others drop out
by John McCormick

Two of the three leading Democratic presidential candidates have asked to have their names removed from the Jan. 15 primary ballot in Michigan because the state has not stuck to Democratic National Committee scheduling rules, likely rendering the contest insignificant.

Sen. Barack Obama of Illinois and former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards on Tuesday both filed paperwork with the Michigan secretary of state to have their names withdrawn, as did Delaware Sen. Joe Biden.

"This is an extension of the pledge we made, based on the rules that the DNC laid out," Obama spokesman Ben LaBolt said in a statement. "We still hope that Michigan Democrats can adopt a process that meets DNC rules and, if so, look forward to fighting for the votes of men and women across the state."

New Mexico Gov. Bill Richardson had already sent a letter Monday, ahead of today's deadline, asking for his name to be removed.

Sen. Hillary Clinton of New York and Sen. Christopher Dodd of Connecticut have agreed not to campaign in either Michigan or Florida, which ignored party rules by scheduling nominating contests before Feb. 5.

Clinton, however, is not expected to ask to have her name removed from the ballot. "We're honoring the pledge and we won't campaign or spend money in states that aren't in compliance with the DNC calendar,'' Clinton spokesman Jay Carson told The Associated Press. "We don't think it's necessary to remove ourselves from the ballot.''

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jonnywishbone97 Donating Member (207 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #7
18. WRONG!!
Im looking at a Florida ballot right now and it has ALL the DEMOCRATS names on it. Guess which one Im voting for and it definitely wont be a two faced OBAMA
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:12 PM
Response to Reply #18
25. Settle down.. they were asking about Michigan. Read the subthread answers.
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Clarkansas Donating Member (701 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:01 PM
Response to Original message
8. Billary cares about FL and MI now that
it is to her political advantage, and ONLY because it is to her political advatantage.
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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:01 PM
Response to Reply #8
9. Exactly.. thank you :-)
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:03 PM
Response to Original message
12. Sorry, your post only shows
that Hillary has not broken the pledge. So far the only candidate to do so is Obama.



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K Gardner Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:06 PM
Response to Reply #12
19. Love your avatar.
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UALRBSofL Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:10 PM
Response to Reply #19
22. I was just called a racist, OMG
I can't believe I was called a racist because I am a Hillary supporter. I am the most discriminated group in the country and I'm called a racist. This is such a sad, very sad thread. :(
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:37 PM
Response to Reply #22
32. That's getting to be par for the course.
The fact is, Obama threw us under the bus when he had Donnie McClurkin emcee his fundraiser in SC. Accepting the endorsement of Kirbyjohn Caldwell was just further proof that LGBT's can expect no more from Obama than from a Republican administration.

Obama lost me with the McClurkin incident. It wasn't until a couple weeks ago that I came off the Clinton/Edwards fence in favor of Hillary. And I have to thank the rabid Obama supporters on DU for that--in this case it's true that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Hillary's borne that out in the last couple days with her statements on behalf of LGBT youth, who are most in danger from Obama's good buddies in the "ex-gay" movment.

I expect Super Tuesday to go very well indeed for Hillary. After that the screeching will only get worse. Count on it.
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okasha Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:23 PM
Response to Reply #19
30. Me, too.
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 03:25 PM by okasha
Fortunately, neither it nor my preference for Senators Clinton and Edwards over Obama impairs my reading comprehension.
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AtomicKitten Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:09 PM
Response to Original message
21. The DNC has made all decisions regarding the primaries.
The Clintons have demonstrated their poor sportsmanship in every state so far by trying to suppress the vote through litigation of students in Iowa and NH and the Culinary union in Nevada.

Some of the worst examples of rabid partisanship here at DU are those trying to blame Obama for the tactical decisions made by the DNC. The Clintons' poison is permeating the minds of those willing to turn into a pretzel to lay blame everywhere EXCEPT where it belongs, clearly at the feet of the Clintons in this case, again.
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Tom Rinaldo Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:19 PM
Response to Reply #21
29. My request is a reasonable one divorced from strong feelings either way about the candidates
In post #20 above I laid it out. No one yet has produced anything that says that the 4 State Pledge was made between anyone other than the candidates and the 4 State Party Chairs directly. No one has shown me how and when the DNC "approved" Obama's ad purchase which included sending TV commercials into over 6.5 million Florida households while the other candidates refrained from doing so. No one has explained why Obama could claim that getting prior approval from just one of the four State Chairs who he signed his pledge to made his decision kosher. No one has explained why Obama saw no need to consult with the other 3 State Chairs who he signed the pledge to.
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hayu_lol Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:27 PM
Response to Reply #21
31. The name on the ballot in Michigan was not required to be removed...
Hillary did not campaign in Michigan. She fully complied with the DNC boycott. Two of the 'glory boys' took it, because of their inexperience a step further and removed their names from the ballot--an action that they both now regret...and that there supporters are attempting to turn against Hillary.

If you are running for president, your name has to be on the ballot. Dodd left his name on and so did Dennis--and Dennis actively campaigned in Michigan against the boycott.

I notice one poster in this thread using Billary. If you continue, then Hillary supporters should be able and willing to respond by using OSama. Do you really want this used? We can use the names these candidates came with...or we can use all the names dredged up by the Repugnants...the choice is yours.

Obama can buy national ads that do not appear in any given state. Ask your local newspaper or tv station about regional advertising which can be local or national. Obama wanted his ads seen in Florida...and by so doing, has violated the rule of no campaigning.

Obama has held several fundraisers that doubled as rallys in Florida. Fundraisers are one thing, making them rallys something entirely different. Politics are politics...but it is Obama who is complaining. He must have taken Dennis's short course in whining and crying.

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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:44 PM
Response to Reply #21
49. uck--too much hate in that post
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Auntie Bush Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:16 PM
Response to Original message
27. Ridiculous post title.!
Edited on Sun Jan-27-08 03:52 PM by Auntie Bush
"Clinton Signs Pledge - Clinton Breaks Pledge: The Definition of Dishonor is Clinton"

Isn't Obama the one who first started runnings anti Hillary ads in Florida...against their pledge? :shrug:

Edited to correct a gazillion typing errors. Sorry no glasses and la little light makes a difference. If only I could type! Sigh! My two fingers are warn out!
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Bitwit1234 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 03:19 PM
Response to Original message
28. I will find a link to all the radio ads that the CANDIDATE HAS RUN
already in Florida...but I guess what he does is OK, Hillary now she is trashed for nothing....see this is the type of supporters. Trashing Hillary for what the other candidate does.
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populistdriven Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 05:02 PM
Response to Original message
33. K&R! nt
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CorpGovActivist Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 05:44 PM
Response to Original message
39. K&R n/t
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oasis Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 05:57 PM
Response to Original message
40. Hillary made a pledge to her supporters many months ago: "I'm in it to win it". (eom)
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rodeodance Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:42 PM
Response to Reply #40
47. yes.
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fadedrose Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 06:19 PM
Response to Original message
43. MI played, now we "pay"
Please don't let my state's delegates be seated. Crooked shady politics at its very worst.

We knew the rules, and our leaders chose to ignore them. This is called "taking responsibility for your actions" elected officials.
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Evergreen Emerald Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sun Jan-27-08 07:19 PM
Response to Original message
51. more double standard from Obama and has minions.
He can advertise and that is ok? You guys are so unreasonable in your faux anger. What a bunch of hooeeeyyyee
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ErnestoG Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Jan-28-08 01:26 AM
Response to Reply #51
53. Ooooo now we're "Minions"!
Ever notice that if you support Hillary, you are a rational and pleasant individual supporting a pleasant, thoughtful and rational candidate...but if you support Obama, you're a wild eyed cultist?

Hilarious.
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