Clinton Irks Immigrants' Advocates

[JI7]

<Immigrant-rights advocates and some Latino leaders are voicing concern at Senator Clinton's campaign-trail rhetoric about swiftly deporting immigrants with a criminal past.

A vow to give the boot to criminal aliens has become an almost daily part of the New York senator's presidential campaign spiel on overhauling the immigration system.

"Anybody who committed a crime in this country or in the country they came from has to be deported immediately, with no legal process. They are immediately gone," Mrs. Clinton told a town hall meeting in Anderson, S.C., Thursday. On Wednesday, she told a crowd in North Bergen, N.J., that such criminals "absolutely" need to be deported. A day earlier, she told a rally in Salinas, Calif., that aliens with criminal records "should be deported, no questions asked."

Mrs. Clinton does not raise the subject in every speech, but her tough talk on the issue dates back at least to the Iowa caucuses last month, where she told the mother of a woman killed by a foreigner in a car accident that illegal aliens who have committed crimes need to be sent home "immediately."

"No legal process," the New York senator said at a forum in Tipton, Iowa, according to a political news outlet, the Politico. "You put them on a plane to wherever they came from.">

http://www.nysun.com/article/70253

[The_Casual_Observer]

1. Somehow it's hard to pose a counter argument to that policy.

Any takers?

[Diane R]

2. Ummmmmm .....Innocent until proven Guilty?

[DURHAM D]

4. You don't think illegal aliens who commit a crime need to be deported?

[sandnsea]

8. How do you know if they're criminals?

If there isn't a trial, on what basis are they being deported?

[DURHAM D]

12. Hello - Because they are illegal.

This really can't be that hard.

[LordJFT]

21. Do you support deporting all illegal immigrants then?

Or just those accused of a crime? Because if you only deport illegals accused of a crime then I could just say an illegal robbed me if I didn't like him/her and wanter him/her to be deported. Would that be fair?

[DURHAM D]

24. Your question makes no sense. Try again. n/t

[Two Americas]

29. "no legal process"

With no legal process there is no way to determine anyone's status or guilt.

[DURHAM D]

33. Status?

What do you mean? Trials are not held to establish status.

[Two Americas]

38. yes they are, or were

Immigrants and refugees were always entitled to a hearing. The authorities can make mistakes. Human beings are presumed innocent by our tradition and our law - and our morals and sense of decency and compassion, I would hope.

We are asking for trouble in any case if we put the burden on people to prove their "status" to authorities. That is a hallmark of a police state. Already the line has been crossed, and citizens - by the thousands - have been illegally arrested and denied the protection of the Bill of Rights, the presumption of innocence, and due process. Citizens have also been deported.

[DURHAM D]

42. Hearings yes - they are administrative procedures.

They are not trials, much less criminal trials.

Legal status does not have a presumption of "innocence". Guilt or innocence is not the issue. You seem to have conflated several issues.

As for putting the burden of proof on people regarding status or identity - that is currently the law for everyone, not just someone who appears to be a foreign national. And yes, we do have a police state.

Citizens have been deported to where? Do you have a link?

Just so you know. I am against deporting undocumented workers (illegal aliens). I favor an amnesty program and a very liberal one at that.

[Two Americas]

43. ok

I am missing your point, then.

[sandnsea]

22. That's not the issue in the OP

But if you think it's more important to deport a serial killer than lock him up for life, well then you keep pushing for your superior policy on immigration.

[jenmito]

23. Hillary said there ARE no illegal people...but that was in response to a Hispanic voter...

However, being an "illegal immigrant" is not a crime. It's an infraction like getting a parking ticket.

[The_Casual_Observer]

5. These are criminals. It's up to us to try them again here?

I take it that if Hillary says it's green you say it's orange.

[DURHAM D]

7. Try the illegal aliens and then keep them here in jail if guilty?

And release them if innocent?

[The_Casual_Observer]

16. Now, how does that Jabberwock logic go?

If Hillary said it it's gotta be bad.

[Two Americas]

32. illogical

There is no such thing as "a criminal" without legal process, including a trial or hearing as needed.

If no legal process is required, there is nothing stopping the authorities from declaring you to be a criminal, denying you a hearing and due process, and shipping you off somewhere.

[EFerrari]

27. It's not the policy. It's the choice to raise the issue as a rallying point.

[The_Casual_Observer]

31. What rallying point, that as long as they are criminals they ought to

get a pass since they are also Illegal Aliens, because they happen to fall under the "Illegal Alien third rail of politics" clause?

[EFerrari]

34. She has 100 topics and she choses this one.

What part of that is difficult to understand?

It's all right. Just Hillary, true to form.

[The_Casual_Observer]

35. oooh a bush Hillary punchline! Nice one!

[DJ13]

3. Any bets she wont repeat that message in California?

Sounds like a pandering speech to people she believes are kinda red of neck there in SC.

[bluestateguy]

6. This should not be controversial: Illegal immigrant commits crime, you are gonzo

Do not pass go. Do not come back.

Thank you, don't come again.

[DURHAM D]

9. I guess some of the up-threaders think that

committing a crime, getting caught and incarcerated is a good way for an illegal immigrant to establish residency.

[mckeown1128]

10. It is the "no legal process" part that bothers me....

It sound like she is saying that their will be trial for those accused of crimes.

[DURHAM D]

14. Do you think that illegal immigrants who get caught up in the

web of law enforcement for any reason have due process or an appeal process?

Focus - illegal is the operative word.

[Two Americas]

39. illegal

"Illegal" can only be determined through due process.

Forcing people to prove to the authorities that they are "legal" is very dangerous, and is in complete opposition to the Constitution.

[mckeown1128]

46. The due process described in the constitution applies to all..

standing within our borders regardless of how they get here.

[beachmom]

48. Well which "legal process" is she talking about? If the person

is actually convicted of a crime THROUGH A LEGAL PROCESS, then deportation is certainly a remedy, although there does need to be a process to start deportation. But which crimes? I think the devil is in the details. Well, except to O'Reilly and friends.

[littlebit]

17. I was at the rally is Anderson

She said if the person has a criminal history in another country or commits a crime here they will be tried and then deported.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

40. I think she's talking about the immigration court

Not the criminal court system at either the state or federal level. I don't think she could possibly be talking about the court and the legal process where the alien is tried and convicted of the crime. I think she's talking about after the conviction and serving of the sentence. There is automatic deportation without the right to appear before an immigration judge for certain aggravated felonies. Unless she's completely trippin', I think that is what she most likely meant.

[mckeown1128]

47. Well that sounds ok then. nt

[sandnsea]

13. How do you know they committed a crime??

And how smart is it to just deport someone who can turn up back here in a week. Convict and put them in prison where they belong.

[Andy823]

25. Secure the border comes to mind

Until we secure the border, we will have a problem.

Why should the taxpayers of this country pay to imprison illegals who commit crimes? How much does it cost us every year to imprison illegals who have come here? Then when their time is up they turn them out back on our streets. This is one thing I agree with Clinton on. Send them back, and if they get caught back here, then "outsource" their prison time back to their own country. Ever spend time in a Mexican jail?

[Andy823]

19. I agree

We don't need more criminals in this country, send them home!

[Two Americas]

36. correct

There should be no controversy. Without due process, there is no way to determine who is "illegal" or has committed a crime.

Dispense with due process with anyone the authorities don't like, and you could be next. Very simple. There should be no controversy about this.

[babylonsister]

11. The NYSun isn't a source I have ANY faith in. For anyone. nt

[sandnsea]

20. You might be right

I'm not finding any other sources of these remarks. In fact, Thompson is the one who made remarks about deporting illegals who had committed crimes. We'll see if somebody else turns up anything to back this up.

[jenmito]

26. I saw her saying something like that yesterday on C-Span. n/t

[MrSlayer]

15. Hey, something I agree with her on.

I don't get why anyone would want to keep criminals in this country who shouldn't be here in the first place. I agree with the Senator completely here.

[Tulkas]

18. Last week she said "there are no illegal women, or men"

At a mexican restaurant (in cal. I think).

Now she wants to deport WITH NO LEGAL PROCESS.


Honestly, I am all for getting the illegal immigration problem under control with increased enforcement (among other things). I know that makes me a right wing nut job in the eyes of most DU peeps, but at least I am honest about it.


I am NOT for the denial of legal process to anyone for any reason. That is a Bush tactic.

[RaleighNCDUer]

28. The part that bothers me is the "or in the country they come from".

So if some corrupt fuckwad south of the border wants a guy's land and illegally arranges the title to be transfered to himself, then the real owner objects and in subsequently charged and convicted of 'interfering with a government official'. Knowing his life is over in his home country, he flees to the shining beacon of freedom, the US. He's an illegal immigrant, a criminal in his own country, and if deported his life isn't worth a tin peso.

Is that a stretch? Not as much as you might think. How many thousands of "illegals" have come here seeking assylum because of their politics in their home countries. Assylum is denied, so they go underground rather than return to the gentle mercies of those "School of the Americas" grads that run their countries. Their crime is breathing, yet if we contact their goverment we will be told they are criminals.

Without due process, how will we know the truth? And without due process, how do we determine who really are or are not criminals?

I can't believe that ANY democrat, here or in the real world, believes in denying anyone due process.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

30. That was smart of her. That's a firerod you don't want to be holding if you can help it.

Coming from a border state I can tell you that people are really irrational where this is concerned. No one wants to be the candidate known as the one who wants to let criminal illegal aliens stay here.

However, from a realistic standpoint, I'm not sure if it's necessarily a good idea to deport all undocumented people suspected of crimes. If the crime is particularly heinous, I'd want them prosecuted here so we could assure that justice was served.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

37. "a woman killed by a foreigner in a car accident" - not necessarily a crime

If it's purely an accident, there's no criminal intent unless other factors such as alcohol or other gross negligence played a role or if the alien flees the scene and commits a hit-and-run.

I think Hillary Clinton is referring to the immigration administrative court when she says "no legal process". There is automatic deportation without the recourse to the immigration court for certain aggravated felonies. Also, deportation can result from so-called crimes of moral turpitude when the crminal sentence was 1 year or more. I don't think Hillary Clinton was referring to alleged crimes where no conviction had occurred, as that is not a crime. You can't know if someone is guilty or innocent of a crime until there's a conviction.

[Beacool]

41. I was at that rally in North Bergen and people cheered loudly

at her remarks. Do the activist really think that most of the latino citizens and legal residents would support giving amnesty to proven criminals????? Who do they think are the majority of the victims of these criminals? That's right, other latinos.

[beachmom]

49. Well, perhaps you can provide context. Is she saying that

they were actually convicted of a crime first, or is just being accused of a crime all that is needed to get the immigrant deported? The "no legal process" is the part I don't get. My hubby is an immigrant (now a U.S. citizen), and of course, I agree that any non-U.S. citizen who commits a major crime (but not unpaid parking tickets or speeding tickets, which needs to be made clear) like murder should be deported. The issue is the lack of "process". There should always be a process to deport someone, not just some low level immigrant official making the decision all on his own.

[Beacool]

50. She wasn't specific, but most of us took her to mean convicted of a crime.

I speak Spanish and a couple of other languages fluently and listen to the news in Spanish on Univision, Telemundo & Azteca America regularly. There are plenty of cases of illegals who have committed crimes in the US who already had a criminal record in their country of origin. I think that what she was trying to say was that if you're a criminal you shouldn't qualify to receive amnesty. I agree with her on this issue, citizenship is a privilege that should be earned and criminal behavior should not be rewarded by granting the individual legal status here or anywhere else.

[adabfree]

44. Didn't

Hillary just recently say, "No Woman is Illegal?"

lol

Her stance doesn't make sense.

[Beacool]

51. She meant that no human being is to be dismissed as being "illegal".

She was responding to a man who said that his wife was illegal. People themselves are not illegal, their status in the country may be so, but not the people themselves. She was trying to make a point that no person is less than another. As usual, when it comes to the Clintons, the media puts the worst possible spin on their words.

[ShortnFiery]

45. Kick for transparency!

:dem: