Clinton Obama health care plans - you really want to know the difference? I really doubt it......

[suston96]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/04/opinion/04krugman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Clinton, Obama, Insurance

By PAUL KRUGMAN
Published: February 4, 2008

The principal policy division between Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama involves health care. It’s a division that can seem technical and obscure — and I’ve read many assertions that only the most wonkish care about the fine print of their proposals.

But as I’ve tried to explain in previous columns, there really is a big difference between the candidates’ approaches. And new research, just released, confirms what I’ve been saying: the difference between the plans could well be the difference between achieving universal health coverage — a key progressive goal — and falling far short.

Specifically, new estimates say that a plan resembling Mrs. Clinton’s would cover almost twice as many of those now uninsured as a plan resembling Mr. Obama’s — at only slightly higher cost.

Let’s talk about how the plans compare.

Both plans require that private insurers offer policies to everyone, regardless of medical history. Both also allow people to buy into government-offered insurance instead.

And both plans seek to make insurance affordable to lower-income Americans. The Clinton plan is, however, more explicit about affordability, promising to limit insurance costs as a percentage of family income. And it also seems to include more funds for subsidies.

But the big difference is mandates: the Clinton plan requires that everyone have insurance; the Obama plan doesn’t.

Mr. Obama claims that people will buy insurance if it becomes affordable. Unfortunately, the evidence says otherwise.

*****

Note: Neither Obama nor Clinton as President can force either plan on Americans. Only Congress can do it. So spare us the ignorant bullshit about either one raiding your wallet.

[papau]

1. Facts do not count on DU - or with O - if they do not agree with Obama

[Schema Thing]

2. I just think he's wrong.

"Mr. Obama claims that people will buy insurance if it becomes affordable. Unfortunately, the evidence says otherwise."


What evidence?


Has anyone offered low cost, subsidized even, insurance to poor people to see if they will choose to do w/out?


I know in Texas, SCHIP rises and falls when they tighten the income limits unreasonably.

[NC_Nurse]

3. Young, healthy people often opt out. That's why

health insurance has too much adverse risk, only people that will likely use it buy it.
I understand his fears about this, but I think Obama is right that this is how we have to get
the ball rolling. People don't like to be told what to do in this country and the Repubs will
call anything mandatory "socialism". Any attempt to get people who want it affordable health
coverage will have to START with this kind of compromise. Only when problems arise will
congress be willing to take a chance on puching through broader changes.

[BlackVelvet04]

7. He KNOWS he's wrong.....

He MANDATES insurance for parents. Why would he do that if he TRULY BELIEVES? And why wasn't he asked that question in the debates?

[suston96]

4. You don't get it. You cannot "opt out" of Social Security and Medicare payments.....

This is a third entitlement and will work on the principle that everybody pays but is used only when actually sick.

[texanshatingbush]

5. I have some 'hearsay' evidence........

I have a friend who manages a large department store which is part of a large national chain. He knows how much he pays his associates. And he knows that many of his associates, whose wages indicate they COULD afford the medical insurance offered by the store, nonetheless refuse to sign up for the coverage.

Now, I realize there could be many reasons for this refusal. But this information was, for me at least, a different point of view. Left unanswered are myriad background questions: are his associates covered by their spouses' medical insurance? do they have financial obligations of which he is unaware? do they choose not to live within a budget which would allow them to afford the offered health insurance? Who knows?

But it reminded me that the world is not what I always assume.


I do agree with another poster, however, that all this hoopla about which medical plan the candidate proposes is wasted effort. The Congress and Senate will decide, ultimately--so support the right candidate THERE. The next POTUS is going to have his hands full for quite a while, just getting this country back on the right track after eight years of Bush-Cheney-neocon corruptions and lies; I hope there is a special place reserved in H*ll for all of them.

[BlackVelvet04]

6. Mr. Obama claims that people will buy insurance if it becomes affordable.

If he really believes that why does he MANDATE parents to buy insurance for children? Does he think parents are less responsible than everyone else? Or is his belief not really belief at all but political pandering?

[suston96]

8. That's exactly the point......

If it's mandatory it has to be mandatory for everyone. It cannot be universal health care if it is not mandatory.

Obama will not detail how he will assure that health care is universal, and he will not detail how he will fine those who refuse to sign-on.

Hillary simply suggested a vague option of fines and has been pilloried for two days. The funny part is that all the screeching about Hillary led to a closer look at Obama's plan, and gee, guess what - he will fine non-compliers also, but won't say how.