I call "bullshit!" on any poster who threatens to NOT VOTE for Obama or Hillary and go puke instead!

[RiverStone]

We are all progressives, liberals, or Democrats here right?

There are a few posters who threaten that they, or like minded others, will NOT VOTE for Barack or Hillary if they are the nominee.

Yea, we already know why you don't like Hillary or why you don't like Barack - we've heard it!

But what I can't fathom is how could anybody that truly believes in progressive values, that absolutely wants to see an end to this illegal and immoral war of aggression in Iraq, who wants to protect and ensure that our personal liberties won't be eroded further by another rightie wacko appointment (or two) on the SCOTUS --- how can you possibly threaten to NOT support the Democratic party?

Why the fuck post on DU at all then? HOW does that mentality help us win the GE?

I am strongly for Obama and unequivocally see him as our best chance to win in November, but I will support Hillary if she is the nominee. That's a no-brainier.

People in DU will not be moved by threats to vote puke; rather, it reminds us that said poster has no credibility.

If your thinking that McCain would be better than either Barack or Hillary - why not just keep it to yourself and go home? :think:

We aim to kick puke ass in the GE and don't need no naysayers threatening to go to the dark side.

[robbedvoter]

1. I think any talk of GE voting/not voting is premature - considering the high level

of hostility here.
I told myself I keep that consideration in abeyance - as I don't want my anger at my vote being taken for granted by a candidate to color my November decision.
It's probably wiser to not request loyalty oaths at a time when people are quite angry.
Once the smoke clears, we'll talk GE.

[Thrill]

2. If they do they are idiots

and they have no reason to complain when McCain has us fighting 3 wars at one time.

[maximusveritas]

3. People always say that in tough primary contests

They'll come around in the end. Don't worry about it.

[RiverStone]

11. Your probably right but...

In the spirit of not calling out posters by name (per DU rules) --- I'm so damn sick of a well known few who say repeatedly: "I just can't see ever voting for Hillary or Barack."

That type of whimpy negativity has no place here.

I love a healthy debate, and that's what the primaries are all about - but when the dust settles, we are all on the same side right?

Yea maximusveritas, we will close ranks after the convention - but I just wish those that threaten to vote puke would STFU.


peace~:)

[CAcyclist]

4. Right on!

I'm a Hillary supporter, but will proudly vote for Obama if he win the primary.

Instead of fighting each other, we Democrats should sit back and watch the implosion of the Republican party and the mass suicide of the fascist arm of the Republican party. This is better than any show on tv.

[AlinPA]

5. Thanks, Riverstone.

[Red Knight]

6. I agree

The fact is that it's almost laughable watching the back and forth between Obama and Hillary people. Folks--there just ain't that much difference between the two candidates for the amount of rancor that gets posted on this site.

I'm a Kucinich guy and if you want difference THERE's your difference.

And even I am going to vote for the winner in this thing.

Why?

Because McCain scares the hell out of me. Foreign policy alone is reason enough to say NO MORE to Republican rule in the White House.

I'm no fan of Obama or Hillary but I'll take them any day over John "Bomb Iran" McCain. What more reason would you need?

[Moh96]

7. I am a huge Obama supporter

but if Hillary wins (I highly doubt that thought) of course I will vote for her

[dipsydoodle]

10. Try sliimming - usually works

after a fashion anyway. But seriously , it would be absurd for anyone to do otherwise.

[goldcanyonaz]

8. I'd have to think about supporting Obamaa, his policies, his approach, his tone.

Just like Michelle Obama in regards to supporting Clinton.

[Iceburg]

9. A bit hypocritical since Obama threatened to lead his sheep out of the Dem pen

on nation wide TV if Hillary won. I known many black women who have been called "race-traitors" and ostracized for not following the shepherd.
Obama stands to the right of McCain.

[goldcanyonaz]

12. I've been called a sellout, for supporting Clinton instead of Obama.

[RiverStone]

18. When the dust settles after the convention...

We will all be in the same boat --- fighting the puke nominee war mongering bastard McCain (OK to them names!).

I dearly hope Obama is our nominee - but I would NEVER call a Hillary supporter a sell out.

Your a Democrat and we need your support in the fall. :hi:

[RiverStone]

14. So if Obama is our nominee, will you support him in the GE?

Just asking...:shrug:

And BTW, I have never heard Barack make said threats you refer to????

[sam sarrha]

15. Link>>

http://zmagsite.zmag.org/Feb2007/street0207.html

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/taylor-marsh/obamas-faustian-bargain-_b_82863.html

[Red Knight]

16. Prove it

Prove that Obama is to the right of McCain.

Give me a link, something. No slam. I'm just interested where you got that information.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

13. Puke? Yeah, I likely will ...

Then I'll vote Democratic.

Even though after Gore blew it off, and Kucinich and Edwards dropped, we are at the bottom of the barrel.

(No epiphany yet, waiting for rapture ...)

[GarbagemanLB]

17. I admit...

...if Hillary wins the nomination my vote for her is not guaranteed. Of course I won't vote for that douche-bag McCain or any other Republican candidate, but we'll have to wait and see how she acts and what she says between the nomination and November.

[maddiejoan]

19. Michelle?

Is that you?

[RiverStone]

20. A compromise vote...

For Hillary is still far better then helping the pukes win another reign of fear and corruption.

Not voting DEM = helping the pukes win.

I know, (((if))) it's Hillary - it would be a compromised vote for me - but I would do it without hesitation because the alternative is far worse.

I will work today (at the Dem caucus in WA) is to do all I can to ensure I'm voting with great enthusiasm for Barack this fall!!!

[CaptJasHook]

21. I call Bullshit on your Bullshit

I will vote for the candidate whomever they are.

But I feel people are perfectly justified in being pissed off. It states in the DU site description that this site is partially about pressing Progressive issues and candidates.

The most Progressive of the candidates have lost out in the primaries. I would argue that they helped force the DNC to shift back to the left. However, they didn't shift far. And as long as the National committee and its machine continue to shit on Progressives, they are going to have the dissent of this voter and DU member.

And if the DNC continues to defy the will of the Progressive movement, then I will find other ways to defy the DNC.

I am pragmatic, so I vote Democrat. But I will still press the Progressive movement over DNC/Corporate politics.

[RiverStone]

22. Damn good thing your a pragmatist!

I'm not suggesting people don't have a right to be pissed off. I was a Kucinich supporter before I was an Obama supporter.

It just goes back to either being part of the solution or part of the problem. As long as we are stuck within a two party system, the Dems are the only option to try and instill sanity and compassion to government.

The thing is Capt, you will fight the good fight, but when you enter that voting booth - at the very least - you know who is the greater threat.

My guess is, we agree far more than we disagree. But call bullshit if you wish - I'm just glad your still voting Dem. :hi:

[CaptJasHook]

23. By the way. Both candidates are 500% better than any Rethug.

My goal is to get as many Progressives out voting as possible. I will always be pragmatic about the Presidential race, because it has always been rigged anyway. So have the Senate and House races, to a slightly... slightly lesser degree.

My faith continues to be at the community, grass roots, activist level. We can take anything those DNC RNC bastards throw at us, anyway. Always have, always will.

As the one-hit wonder Triumph sang:

Fight the good fight every moment
Every minute, every day

Fight the good fight every moment
It's our only way.

[niyad]

24. my response is, "I am sorry that I am obliged to save your ignorant ass along

with my own."

[MS Liberal]

25. You might want to have this talk with Michelle Obama.

Check her out at abc.com saying she does not know if she can support Hillary.

[RiverStone]

27. And I'd say the same thing to Michelle...

If it comes down to it - Hillary would vote for Barack in the GE, as would Barack for Hillary.

Can't tell ya what their spouses would do?

But I know what I'm gonna do!

And you?

[emilyg]

36. Good point.

[LWolf]

26. I am a leftist libertarian,

at least according to the political compass. I am more socialist than capitalist. I am a pacifist. I am an environmentalist, a feminist, and a supporter of social and economic justice.

When I say I will not vote for either Clinton or Obama in the general election, I mean it. I also will not be voting for the republican. I've never voted for a republican for national office yet, and I have no intention of starting now. Not voting for Clinton or Obama is not synonymous with "voting puke," and to suggest that it is is simply dishonest.

To answer your questions:

I truly believe in progressive values, I absolutely want to see an end to this illegal and immoral war of aggression in Iraq, I want to protect and ensure that our personal liberties won't be eroded further by another rightie wacko appointment (or two) on the SCOTUS --- how can I possibly threaten to NOT support the Democratic party?

First of all, it's not a threat. It's a fact. Secondly, it's not lack of support for the Democratic Party. It's lack of support for those two Democrats. I will be working hard to elect Democrats locally. Lastly, I frankly don't believe that either of those two candidates is progressive, and will work for progressive values, or will end our presence in Iraq, or end the bogus "war on terror." Given that I don't trust either one of them to uphold progressive values, I also don't trust them to make good appointments. I don't trust them to protect and defend the constitution or our personal liberties.

Is that clear enough for you?

Why the fuck post on DU at all then? HOW does that mentality help us win the GE?

I post on DU because I am 1. A progressive, and 2. A Democrat. I'm not here to win the GE. I'm not at DU to campaign. I'm here for this:

<snip>

"Democratic Underground (DU) was founded on Inauguration Day, January 20, 2001, to protest the illegitimate presidency of George W. Bush and to provide a resource for the exchange and dissemination of liberal and progressive ideas. Since then, DU has become one of the premier left-wing websites on the Internet, publishing original content six days a week, and hosting one of the Web's most active left-wing discussion boards.

We welcome Democrats of all stripes, along with other progressives who will work with us to achieve our shared goals. While the vast majority of our visitors are Democrats, this web site is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, nor do we claim to speak for the party as a whole."

Frankly, I would think that DUers who were here to protest the illegitimate presidency of GWB would support impeachment, and those who are working for that, and oppose those who are not. I would think that they would support those who champion hand-counted paper ballots.

I would think that DUers who were here to exchange and disseminate progressive ideas would realize that this site is more than a campaign rally.

Lastly, I would think that DUers would realize that, since this sight is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and does not claim to speak for the party, that choices, votes, and points of view expressed on DU are NOT ALWAYS ABOUT THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY.

There is an inherent conflict in the "about DU" message. Not all progressives are democrats, and not all democrats are progressives.

[RiverStone]

31. rule 2.

Who We Are: Democratic Underground is an online community for Democrats and other progressives. Members are expected to be generally supportive of progressive ideals, and to support Democratic candidates for political office. Democratic Underground is not affiliated with the Democratic Party, and comments posted here are not representative of the Democratic Party or its candidates.

Then I assume LWolf, since you are so damn sure you will not be voting for Obama or Clinton - you will refrain from dissing them once we enter the battle for the GE?


Beyond that, happy to hear your still working at the local level - just as important!

[LWolf]

34. Once the nomination is official, at the close of the convention,

I will not discuss the GE on DU at all. There would be no reason to.

I am still more than generally supportive of progressive ideals. More supportive, to be frank, than the majority of Democrats. I will still be supporting Democrats, and voting for them, in November. My focus will probably be on the effort to unseat Gordon Smith. He's vulnerable this time around, and all of the Democrats in the primary who would like to challenge him are good.

I will also be working for whoever challenges my rep in Congress, but that's an uphill battle. This is a red area, and a strong challenger has not emerged.

As far as the GE goes, I won't sit home. I'll vote 3rd party or write in a better Democrat. I don't know which. I wouldn't vote 3rd party unless there is someone on the ballot I could actually vote FOR; it won't be a protest vote. Writing in a better Democrat would, of course, be a protest vote, which is the vote of last resort. :shrug:

For all those democrats who decided for me who would be the best nominee, if your candidate wants to earn my vote, urge him or her to do the following:

1. Clear, strong, unambiguous support for HR 676.
2. Clear, strong, unambiguous plan for emptying Iraq of all US troops by June 1, 2009.
3. Clear, strong,, unambiguous statement of Non-support for NCLB, NAFTA, CAFTA, and the Patriot Act.
4. Clear, strong,, unambiguous statement of support for impeachment of both Cheney and Bush.
5. Strong, unambiguous statement of support for a clear, wide, and deep separation between church and state.
6. Clear, strong, unambiguous opposition to corporate personhood and corporate influence in government.

Let them give me something to hold them accountable for; then I'll reconsider. Until then....no.

[Auntie Bush]

28. Hopefully there are a small number of traitors to our party on the board and

they may even be trolls. You ate so correct...we have to work together as a party after our candidate is chosen...no matter who. The future of our country depends on that fact. Go Hillary or Go Obama...we'll back you up 100%.

[Medusa]

29. You mean like the DLC?

Yeah, they are traitors. People here are just expressing an opinion, which under the U.S. constitution they are currently still allowed to do. But if we want to talk about real traitors to their party let's talk about the people who voted to go into an illegitimate war. Let's talk about the people who think it's okay to vote for the Patriot Act. Oh, right, we can't talk about that because then someone will claim I'm either a GOP troll or an Obama cult member for speaking the truth.

[RiverStone]

32. Corporate/DLC bedfellows aside...

When the dust settles, will you be supporting the Dem nominee for president?

[Auntie Bush]

35. Stop muttering about a bunch of other irrelevant things and lumping everything together and

totally and deliberately misrepresent what I said. I SAID, NOT VOTING
IN THE GE FOR A DEM IS TRAITOROUS TO THE DEM PARTY. Does that make it easier to understand what I was saying?

[Jed Dilligan]

30. DU is like a factory for posts like that

Take negative hyperbole against the candidates, add trollish harassment of each candidate's supporters, let thin-skinned people log in, and watch the "I'm letting McCain win damn you" posts fly.

[onenote]

33. exactly: the presidential election is a zero sum game

If you are not working to defeat the repub candidate, you are directly or indirectly supporting the election of that candidate.

Ask yourself: do I want to help defeat the candidate that will be endorsed by chimpy and cheney or not? Its that simple.

Then suck it up and go out and work for the election of the Democratic party candidate whether or not that candidate was your first choice for the nomination.