Signs of trouble for Obama in Ohio and Texas - white voters with no college degree not liking Obama

[Herman Munster]

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021303249_2.html?hpid=topnews

Democrats outside the Clinton campaign said she must build her recovery -- particularly in Wisconsin and Ohio -- on white voters who do not have a college degree. These voters stayed largely loyal on Tuesday when other groups were defecting. They went 61 percent to 32 percent for Clinton in Maryland and 57 percent to 42 percent for Clinton in Virginia.

[babylonsister]

1. Race, again? Ugh. nt

[rodeodance]

24. Do you not think race is important in this primary?

[babylonsister]

32. It's fabulously important! Look at the turnout for Senator Barack Hussein Obama! He's

fabulous! I think the best part of his race, color, youth, and experience, is that people finally believe someone, and are jazzed about a man who is motivating, and that is finally what matters, not superfluous stuff.

[jackson_dem]

36. He is getting 85-88% black support. Race does matter in the primaries

Hillary logically has to focus on where she can get support and the data shows blue collar whites are a good demographic for her. She was leading among blacks too until Obama swiftboated the Clintons on race.

[oasis]

84. Obama most definitely swiftboated the Clintons on race.

:puke:

[Binka]

104. Holy Fucking Shit Black Folks Are Voting For Obama? You Have To Be Shitting Me.

This is now swiftboating? Stop the planet. These fucking HRC new to the board and out of control idiots are disgusting.

[oasis]

131. Bill Clinton's "fairy tale" comment was distorted, as was Hillary's remark about MLK.

The media and Obama folks rode that horse into the South Carolina primary.

That's called "swiftboating" my friend.

[Leopolds Ghost]

169. Turnabout is fair play -- Hillary did the same thing to Kerry

In an effort to destroy his '08 chances by defending Bush's war record

and accusing Kerry of insulting the troops (by attacking Bush's war record).

In politics, revenge is a dish best served cold. :evilgrin:

[rodeodance]

40. fine--your post with the ugh was curious

[babylonsister]

47. Come on, get over it, the race thing is "the message". nt

[rodeodance]

60. nothing to get over.

[FrenchieCat]

62. Bwawaaaaa! The real title of the article is called:

Clinton Scrambles to Try to Reverse Obama's Momentum

"She absolutely must win both Ohio and Texas to stay alive," one strategist noted. "Most of all, she has to find a way to change the fundamental dynamic of the race."
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/02/13/AR2008021303249_2.html?hpid=topnews

[BenDavid]

102. when Hillary said "I have more experience," the charge came

back, "Why does Hillary say blacks are too stupid to be president?"

Every word from them is turned into a terrible, personal racial attack against Obama. You can turn on any political talk show - even today - and within 15 minutes someone will mention Bill's "shameful" remarks about race in Carolina.

The thing is, nobody will quote him because when you repeat what he said, it doesn't sound racial so they simply refer to it as racial and the press turns on their echo machine and suddenly the Clintons are the Supreme Dragons.

The press and the blindest of the Obamaniax will have you believe that Bill Clinton, the slickest black president ever, can't even open his fool black mouth without uttering some horrible racial slur that everyone agrees is terribly offensive. Donna Brazile just might up and quit the party next time Clinton opens his racist mouth again.I say "leave! who's stopping ya?"

But the minute IF Obama gets the nod, everyone is going to be SHOCKED when the whore media turns on Obama to elect McCain and saying "I told you so" won't help.

Meanwhile, I've got the same problem. How many times have I been accused of "sliming" Obama? ANY mention of Obama that isn't followed by a genuflection is "shocking racism."

[rodeodance]

120. Obama himself said Clintons comments were not racis (too late as the damage was done by his surrogat

[Bongo Prophet]

116. Well it wouldn't work with a benign title would it?

We have moved into a new phase in this race.

[DemVet]

135. "Superfluous stuff"....yeah, like the issues, huh?

The president needs to be more than a motivational speaker.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

26. Its crazy, because OBAMA IS WHITE

and frankly, its not 1965 anymore.

This is such bullshit.

[jackson_dem]

39. Is he talking about being the 44th white president?

I've never heard him or any of his supporters ever say that, or that he would be the first biracial president.

[boricua79]

96. he's never really said anything about being any type of racial president

he's talked about change and being a different type of president, but not racially.

[Jamastiene]

91. Obama is half white which is not white at all.

Let's not stretch his mixed race status THAT much.

[Madam Mossfern]

94. If being half white is not being white at all

then it stands to reason that he is not black at all either. Right?
Truly a man of ALL the people.

[Jamastiene]

98. He's mixed race.

which is neither one nor the other, but a mixture of the two.

[janetblond]

109. Obama is NOT "black" ...

His mother is WHITE. He is bi-racial.
I don't think blacks realize this.
He is a man of the PEOPLE .. ALL PEOPLE.
The latinos should appreciate this, being multi-racial themselves.

[psychopomp]

147. Give me a break

Other than biracial people, nobody knows biracial men and women better than black people. Many We all have them in our families--all it takes is a look around a room of African Americans. We are black, brown, tan and pretty much white.

Not only are mixed African and Europeans represented, but many with Latin American, American Indian and Asian roots as well.

[NOLALady]

177. I do believe all black people are multiracial.

I don't know any blacks who are not mixed with other ethnicities.

[NOLALady]

176. .

:7

[janetblond]

111. Most bi-racial people do NOT consider themselves "black" ..

Suzanne Malveaux on CNN is a prime example.
Eventhough her father is "black", her mother is white.
THEREFORE, she is NOT "black".
Same w/ Soledad O'Brien, who has a "black" latino mother, and a "white" father.
Obama's mother is WHITE.
So go figure!
Obama is a man of ALL PEOPLE!!
Go Obama!

[Leopolds Ghost]

172. She probably calls herself "Creole"

"High Yeller" as they call it in these parts where the black political
class is dominated by mostly-white individuals.

[NOLALady]

178. Not true.

[endarkenment]

122. You just fell face first into blatant racism.

Please do elaborate on how half white is black but half black is not white.

[Leopolds Ghost]

171. What percentage of white is not white at all? 1/2 black? 1/8 black? 1/4 black?

[Oskie]

181. It's not about black or white...Obama is REAGAN! pretty talk while

cutting deals with the corporatists. We don't get fooled again...yeah right. With Hillary we can hold her feet to the fire, with Obama he'll sweet talk us into amnesia, and we won't know what happened until Excelon and the nuke industry wants us to.

[BeyondGeography]

2. Is that why she speaks so slowly at her rallies?

[MADem]

14. Well, Bush has a bachelors and a masters. Condi has a PhD.

They aren't always an indicator of INTELLECT.

But hey, heck of a cheap shot there directed right at those who can't afford higher education! Well aimed! The insinuation that they're "stupid" was plain as day!

[rodeodance]

29. There must have been 15posts today from O. people yapping about how Hill is

dissing voters. and now this.

[dchill]

141. The stupid have prevailed...

in our last two presidential elections. It's, uh, somebody else's turn.
:)

[rodeodance]

25. That is an Insult to voters and you should be ashamed of yourself!

Is that why she speaks so slowly at her rallies?
Posted by BeyondGeography

[Bongo Prophet]

118. Hey, player 2. You never answered my previous questions the last two days.

As I said, I would be interested in hearing your views on open govt, or why you think Clinton would be good for that.
Or the previous one, for that matter.
They were both polite invitations to dialog, and maybe make this place a little more civil.

My guess is you are too busy.
Doing what you do.
I understand now.

[Straight Shooter]

35. Are you seriously implying that people without college degrees are stupid?

Educate yourself.

Famous and Successful People Who Were High School or College Dropouts

S. Daniel Abraham, billionaire founder of Slim-Fast. Joined the Army at the age of 18 and fought in Europe during World War II. Did not attend college.

Sheldon Adelson, billionaire casino owner. Dropped out of City College of New York to become a court reporter. He made his first fortune doing trade shows.

Ben Affleck, actor, screenwriter. Left the University of Vermont after one semester; then dropped out of Occidental College to pursue acting.

Dennis Albaugh, billionaire founder of pesticide company Albaugh Inc. Earned a 2-year agriculture business degree from Des Moines Community College. Did not continue on to a 4-year degree.

Paul Allen, billionaire co-founder of Microsoft, owner of Seattle Seahawks and Portland Trailblazers. Dropped out of Washington State.

Many more names at link http://www.collegedropoutshalloffame.com/

[rodeodance]

42. I was upset by that comment also.

[Sapphocrat]

69. Sorry to report, it's not the first such ugly remark I've seen tonight. n/t

[Leopolds Ghost]

173. Under Clinton/Bush economy, it is no longer possible to "work your way up" w/out a degree

That is why Clinton wants to "retrain people" to go from skilled, non-degree manufacturing jobs to semi-skilled, low-paying service sector jobs.

Are less-educated Ohioans aware of this fact?

I ask because most HIGHLY-EDUCATED Dems are not -- they don't understand
economics and they don't understand deep sociological trends. They absorb
platitudes and redefine terms ("universal health care", for instance) to
mean whatever the media tells them is important to mean.

[Lex Talionis]

179. Dude I've been reading your posts on some of these threads.

And your making waaaayy to much sense. Are we on the right site? Good to see that we have some common ground to stand on. Kudos to you and my respects. Like the name. You read any Clausewitz(sp?)?

[jackson_dem]

41. The classism and homophobia here almost completely comes from Obamites

Not Edwardians or Hillarites.

[MADem]

63. To say nothing of the gender bias!

I still can't get over the Get over that pimp nonsense now, little woman! slew of posts. If anyone had used that word within a thousand yards of any member of their candidate's family they would have birthed a full sized cow...

[Hoof Hearted]

64. birthed a full sized cow...

:spray:

[Bongo Prophet]

127. Damn, jackson_dem, did you even read my post to you about how marginalizing name calling is?

I think I am beating my head against a wall.
Were just FEIGNING innocence?
i thought we might have connected, and could make some progress.
But you never even responded - I hoped you at least read it and maybe thought about how it could hurt your candidate, the party, and beyond.

Yes, yes. It is all THEM.
Not individuals, some jerks on any side, not hidden motive players.
do you really believe that?
"I beg you sir, have you no shame?"

I am amazed that you can be so "outraged" by the same things, and make the same hypocritical charges.
It is like somone is in a loop.
groundhog's day.
Oy.

so far, though, I think edwardian is neutral.
as if you care.
If you wanna talk, you can pm me.

[Sapphocrat]

68. Do you practice being insulting all day?

And the Obama camp wonders why it has such a reputation for rudeness?

Ladies and gentlemen, Exhibit A.

[Bongo Prophet]

114. Some practice insulting, and some practice BEING insulted, Sapph. I have seen this trick.

I am a non-degreed person myself, and know that subtle bigotry first hand.

I also know the trick. Seen it.

1. post story about class or gender or...

2a. wait for mark to make the insult or snark, it usually does not take long.
2b. have partner make a statement that is obviously bigoted.

3. outrage, either faux or real

Keep fanning.
If successful, a whole thread of outrage can be directed at the target. Whatis brilliant about it in this case, is that the target is only implied.
The REAL "mark" is the observers who get sucked into the drama, and those who just read or hear about it. The take home point is that the jerks who make the bigoted statements get identified with the real target, through simple transference. In this case it is "Obama people are jerks = therefore Obama is a jerk"

This is a variation of flamebait, and prior to internet, was used by flimflam artists, or grifters.
Picked up by college republicans, in a long tradition of Segretti, Atwater, Rove, Norquist.
They play on human nature's dark side. Class resentment is as subconscious and predictable as any other form of sublimated hate.
Race, sex, gender, greed, age, class, and so on.

Think dollar bill on the street.
think getting bumped into and distracted, then your wallet gets nabbed...
Think Volleyball. One hit, then setup, then slam.

As stated in an earlier post, there are two examples of just this particular thing in the last couple of hours.
there was another with the same story and reaction set a few days ago. I was one of the "outragees" - since I am very class sensitive, I fell for it myself! SUCKER!

We are being played people. By whom? I would have to have IP addresses to get more info, but we are being played.
Outrage fanning is a common trick.
"You and him fight" -and who is standing by watching, or encouraging?


Pull back from an advocacy position, and look at this board like a psyops expert, then a criminal investigator of fraud.
Just observe. I will stop here, as I have revealed enough.

[NMMNG]

75. Were you always an elitist snob,

Or did it take practice?

[theHandpuppet]

99. No bigotry there, huh.

My parents were too poor to have had the benefit of a college education. My mother still lives in Scioto County, the Appalachian portion of SE Ohio, where over 25% of the people live below the poverty line. You know, the same place that gave us such RW dimwits as Democratic Governor Ted Strickland. The same people who voted overwhemingly AGAINST Jean Schmidt in the last two elections in favor of her Democratic opponents.

But hey, my parents are white and not college educated, so they must simpletons as well as racists.

[Bongo Prophet]

126. I hear you, theHandpuppet. I understand.

My dad was born in 1917, and had to quit school in the 3rd grade to feed the family. He and my uncle worked in WPA, welded tankers and served in the Pacific during ww2. Worked all his life, and got ripped off of much of his savings, by a right wing oilman, while I was in high school. That drug running oilman had one guy close to my dad shot in the face at a stoplight. Knew too much, but less than my dad did. Life is complicated.

Through all of that, he was one of the wisest men I have ever known, regardless of education, and a talented designer of horse and dog trailers - his crew respected him greatly, loved him. Taught me to care for people regardless of race, creed or class, and to understand politics and character.

An Adlai Stevenson democrat, he was for Eugene McCarthy while I liked RFK - and he taught me through that primary that one could disagree without rancor. Comforted me when Bobby died, and explained what the hell was going on in Chicago. I was just 10 yrs old at the time.

I think he and I would have liked your folks, and been able to laugh and talk, and enjoy life together.
Simple things, lovely people.


Peace.

[Bongo Prophet]

101. Don't fall for it BG. It is an old setup. Not race, this one- but class/education.

PLayer 1: Non-degreed blue collar workers aren't voting for Obama

Player 2: Those idiots don't matter, they can't even read.


Audience: Obamameanies are such latte drinking elitists! I am so outraged!! If THAT BAD MAN wins I am sitting out the election!!!



Rinse repeat. There have been two of these in the last couple of hours.

Come on folks, we know when we are being played.
Teamwork, like a pickpocket team - one distracts or sets up the grab. The other swoops in.
Often, there are other faux outrage players to fan the flames.

Old tricks.
FLIM FLAM.
Do NOT WANT.

[BeyondGeography]

105. Oh, I know...it was just a lame joke

and look at all the principled outrage it inspired.

The Clintons have spent the last eight years running up the score for themselves financially and hanging out with rich people whom they're relied on to fund their now floundering campaign. Eventually, the working-class electorate will figure out who their real friend is in this race. If today's Rasmussen numbers mean anything, it seems to be happening already, actually.

[Bongo Prophet]

115. It's more than a lame joke, BG - check the rest of the thread, and the other one just like it.

These little outrage bursts are staged.
I recognize the trick, and this is the 3rd I have seen in the past few days - new posters with new games, to plant FUD, to divide, and to corrode support.

This one is class based, but there are some gender, race and homophobic fanning as well.
Yesterday's theme was outrage, the "we will never vote for X" the "Black man will never get elected" and so on.
Don't believe me, but watch the patterns - I learned a few things over the years via army intel in berlin and PIs in TX.
I know one of the guys connected to Rove himself, back in 1980s texas.
Sounds paranoid, I know. so does voter caging though. Just sayin'....

[terrya]

164. It certainly was lame.

I didn't detect any humor in that "joke" whatsoever. It's an insult to the millions of Americans who couldn't or didn't go to college.

[BeyondGeography]

170. Oh, the sanctimony!

:eyes:

[ecstatic]

175. Why not direct your anger towards HermanMunster

who was so delighted in the story that he had to make it an OP? :shrug:

[terrya]

134. I guess it's no room on the "Hope Express" for those slack jawed morons....

without a college degree.

God, are you deliberately making it impossible for people to want to support Obama? That's one of the rudest, most snotty posts I've ever read at DU.

[asthmaticeog]

149. Classist garbage.

It amazes me how many who profess to support what's been the party of the common people seem to disdain the actual common people.

[ChavezSpeakstheTruth]

152. don't disgrace your fellow Obama supporters by being a dick

please

[ronnykmarshall]

162. So what the fuck does that mean?

You know what? There's a LOT of people in here that had to work and did have the chance to go or finish college, myself included. My mom didn't go to college, she raised two kids and then had to go back to work when my dad's business wasn't doing good and also to support us when they divorced.


Real fucking nice comment. Gives me so much HOPE!!!

[zulchzulu]

3. Are "white voters with no college degree" Raygun Democrat?

Are 'white voters with no college degree" actually voters?

[bellasgrams]

20. Yes we're middle class Americans that want a well qualified

President with well tested abilities and experience. We don't need 'change, hope, yes we can' slogans. We want facts, we want action, not someone prancing around like a cheerleader. We've had one of those for 8 yrs. This country is in bad shape a newby can't do it. He needs to step aside and take some notes, learn from a pro, he can always run when he's qualified. When he can keep up with others when speaking issues and doesn't have to keep cheering us on

[jackson_dem]

45. Good post and ignore the Obamite classism. Edwardians, Hillarites stand with regular folk

You know, the folk that have been the heart of our party since the days of Jefferson!

[Bongo Prophet]

130. Edwardians and "Hillarites" have been with us since Jefferson, but not "Obamites"??? WTF?

Race bait much?
Hmm, where would those mixed race "Obamites" be during Jefferson's time?
In the master's bed or out in the field?

And you are a democrat right?
riiiight.

Someone's dog whistle is showing here.
hide it quick, before someone notices.

[Sock Puppet]

153. No, that poster is saying that those who put down Hillary supporters

...as uneducated do not support the ideals of the Democratic party that go back to its Jeffersonian roots.

[Bongo Prophet]

163. Perhaps you are right, sock Puppet. I would agree with that, but expand that...

Expand it to say anyone who puts down anybody (regardless of politics at all) for any of a host of reasons, in order to belittle or marginalize. That would include the ways in which each camp paints the other as some monolithic group that is all evil.

Now, perhaps you missed the part where he excluded all "Obamites" from that Jeffersonian tradition?

Check my posts earlier, if you want to have some fun with ideas...

[gmudem]

Edwards and Clinton have nothing in common.

Please don't insult Edwards like that.

[babylonsister]

72. You are kidding, right? Who is the pro, Hill or Bill? Who's winning the

popular vote, your gal or Obama?

http://tpmelectioncentral.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/obama_leads_in_the_total_popul.php

Obama Leads In The Total Popular Vote — Even With Florida And Michigan
By Eric Kleefeld - February 13, 2008, 5:53PM

An interesting statistic coming out of the Potomac Primary: Not only is Barack Obama ahead of Hillary Clinton in the total popular vote for the primaries and caucuses so far, but he's ahead even if you factor in Florida, which wasn't contested, and Michigan, where his name wasn't even on the ballot.

Here are the numbers from NBC News:

States Awarding Delegates

Total Vote %
Obama 9,373,334 50%
Clinton 8,674,779 46%
Others 726,095 4%

With Florida
Total Vote %
Obama 9,942,375 49%
Clinton 9,531,987 46%
Others 984,236 4%

With Florida and Michigan
Total Vote %
Obama 9,942,375 47%
Clinton 9,860,138 47%
Others 1,249,922 6%

Notice that Obama's lead holds even without counting the "Uncommitted" votes in Michigan into his column — when in fact, the Uncommitted campaign was waged by supporters of his and to a lesser extent John Edwards.

Hillary Clinton could still retake the national popular lead with strong victories in Ohio and Texas, two very large states. But even then, there would be more contests on the calendar where Obama is favored to win, leaving Obama a good chance at the vote lead when all the contests are finally over.

With stats like these, one would almost think he's become the frontrunner...

[jmg257]

124. "Abilities and experience"? I LOVE how being 1st Lady qualifies someone to be Pres.

[Leopolds Ghost]

174. Reagan Democrats for Hillary, eh?

The working class has abandoned their fellow man to embrace a doctrine
(espoused by both Reagan and Clinton) of upward mobility for a lucky few
and debt fueled "prosperity" for everyone else.

[Sapphocrat]

70. Now I see whose study partner BeyondGeography in Rudeness 101 is. n/t

[Bongo Prophet]

123. Het, zulchzulu. You gave the insult the last time this subject came up.

For someone so educated you have a lot to learn.
I felt bad about getting pissed at you for being so rude, so I wrote you a poem the other night on the "quantitative evidence" thread. trying to lighten it up. but here you are again, with almost the exact same line.

Are you a player or a mark?
either way, please lighten up on us poor unedumacated fools who did not have the advantages you did.
My dad got his pension whacked after 40 yrs, by a tx oilman who was running drugs from Colombia in the 70s.
Think Enron.
Kinda messed up my chances for an easier path, but opened my eyes to many things, and set me on a possibly more enlightening path.
Life is funny that way.
Some don't go to college because of economics, or test anxiety, dyslexia and other health issues...we are not all stupid. I have known pretty good philosophers at construction sites, for example. And some pretty intuitive types, empathic types who might end up cleaning up your messes.
ALL. WORTHY. PEOPLE.

I guess empathy cannot be taught. Nor can manners.
But I think you are capable of growth, having seen your posts here for years.
you should know that you hurt some people that last time, (not me) and just did it again.
Think about that.

Oh, and you are hurting your candidate by the rude behavior.
Maybe even got duped.
That might be post-grad level work, though.

[BadgerLaw2010]

150. Most of them are too grounded in the real world to afford to listen to spin.

And Gen Y dreamer BS*

*Disclaimer: Poster is a member of Gen Y, in college, and affluent. And poster cannot stand Obamababies because poster actually has a clue as to how the political process works.

[MadBadger]

4. Hmmm, somebody Stereotyping OH and TX i see.

[Clinton Crusader]

10. Well, dayum, lookie what I found!

An Obamaite STEREOTYPING the race vote!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=4584247&mesg_id=4584247

Sword cuts both ways

[rodeodance]

33. great catch!

[Sapphocrat]

73. Shhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!

It's OK when they do it -- but when we so much as mention race, we're race-baiting / playing the race card... and then we get lectures on how any mention of race just hurts Hillary.

C'mon, you know the drill by now.

[Bongo Prophet]

136. Please, my friend, rethink that a bit. Check this whole thread, and my responses.

i think you are halfway, there - but the anger is a barrier from seeing the bigger pattern.
And I kow you are a GOOD person.
I will not abandon that.
I wish we could talk about this over refreshments.
Sometimes face to face is better - but for those pesky thousands of miles.:)

[Danger Mouse]

5. It must pain you to be confined by that 3 post a day limit.

:cry:

[grantcart]

7. lol you beat me to it

[Danger Mouse]

9. now that P2BM is gone, ole Herman is our remaining spammer.

with only two posts to go, i'd say he chose this one...poorly.

[grantcart]

18. there is another one from the tribe that is equally irritating but

the recent tombstoning was very refreshing. I posted a straight news story about the campaign manager resigning without any comment and one of these nuts accused me of lying we exchanged 10 posts back and forth and a few hours later he was gone.

[milkyway]

21. I've been away for a few days. What happened to P2Burkin?

[grantcart]

23. sheriff came to town and tombstoned a half dozen of the worst

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

28. maybe the posting limit should be further reduced

but then the number of sock puppets would greatly increase.

[David Zephyr]

66. LOL! He's limited to Just three posts per day about race, his only subject.

LOL!

[Binka]

108. One Down Two More Pants Loads To Go n/t

[grantcart]

6. Certainly you could have found something more substantive than this to use for one of your 3 threads

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

8. CLINTON ATTACKS, OBAMA ATTRACTS

Hillary is destined to fight all of the time,
while
Obama is destined to build.

[bellasgrams]

34. Will Your-It really disgusts me to hear that crap about Hillary,

BO sets up the bait then the Clintons talk back and are accused of attacking him, and you call that bldg? He has done nothing but divide this party.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

43. we hear all about her fighting fighting fighting, never about her building

thats the feel I get for Hillary Clinton.

That she is so used to fighting the right wing machine, etc, its like her greatest quality
to hear some people tell it.

Well, I don't want to endure more of that constant fighting, I want to see some building up.

[Bongo Prophet]

133. Consider that it may not be Clinton OR Obama, but 3rd party. They play rough.

It's kinda like dormroom videogame session.
Teams A and B.
Playing games.

I know good people in BOTH camps.
Anyone who falls into the "THEY are BAD, WE are GOOD" paradigm is off base.

In WHO'S INTEREST would it be to split us up and grind us into hateful enemies?
Who split up movements in the 60s?
Who throws the rock?
The infiltrators.
Karl grew up in that.
Learned it in college.
(There's your higher education without empathy at work.)

and why oh why do we keep falling for the same tricks?

I am okay with whoever you vote for.
Just don't demonize, organize.


edited, 'cause bad spellin'makes the baby jeebus cry

[Sapphocrat]

77. Meaningless slogans again.

If, however, you actually believe "Clinton attacks, Obama attracts," then you should be taking a lesson from your leader.

[ronnykmarshall]

167. If he's anything like many of fans here ..

I'd hate to see what the hell he "builds".

[NJSecularist]

11. It won't hurt him in Texas

But it might hurt him in Ohio.

He's still got 4 weeks to fix it.

[yeswecan08]

12. Those people will vote for McCain anyway - why waste time with them

[BrightKnight]

54. That would be a brilliant campaign strategy in the general election too. -- n/t

[Bongo Prophet]

138. Welcome back to DU

fan it good, playah!

[Clinton Crusader]

13. But it's OK for Obamaites to say 'better than expected black turnouts in OH and TX'?

Please.

[Torgo Johnson]

15. Considering that Obama won Maryland and Virginia with ease..

White voters without a college degree must have been a very small percentage of voters. Speaking as an Ohioan, what makes you think that my state and Texas are full of undereducated white people?

[dicknbush]

30. Because they voted for bush TWICE!!!!?????

[NJSecularist]

31. I'd say about a 10% voting bloc

But then again I am just estimating.

He more than makes up the difference with college graduates.

Where he needs to improve on is low-income whites with a college degree.

[jackson_dem]

51. Obama lost the white vote in both states, including by double digits in Maryland

And he does worse with voters who are poorer so his deficit was worse with working class whites. The reason Obama won big is because in Maryland blacks were about two-fifths of voters and he won them 84-15. A similar story took place in Virginia, although blacks were a smaller percentage there he did better with VA whites than MD whites. Still he lost white Democrats by double digits in Virginia too, although he won white "independents" in Virginia. Overall he lost the white vote by 10 in MD and 1 in VA.

[NJSecularist]

121. That is a flat-out lie.

I expect better from you.

Obama lost the white vote by 4 points in Maryland but won the white vote in Virginia.

http://www.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/02/12/dem.polls/?iref=mpstoryview
And he split white votes about 50-50 with Clinton in both states -- edging her 50-49 in Virginia and trailing 51-46 in Maryland. That's a big change from previous contests in which Clinton held a big lead over Obama among white Democrats.

[NMMNG]

80. I used to live there. I know why he won them with ease.

[Yossariant]

93. MD is 4th among states for population 25+ with a degree. VA is 6th.

Ohio, 41st and Texas, 25th.

About a third of Marylanders over 25 have degrees while about a fifth of Ohians, of the same age, have college degrees.

[FrenchieCat]

16. Have Texas and Ohio folks without degrees voted already?

I didn't realize that. :shrug:

[Alhena]

17. I'd worry about this quote in that article if I were you ...

"No one can stand hearing or seeing her because she does not sound or look authentic." - and that's from a Clinton SUPPORTER.

[WillYourVoteBCounted]

46. thats what my daughter told me she heard at her schools mock election n/t

[yellowcanine]

19. Unless they are union households, white voters with no college degree aren't as likely to vote in a

primary as most other demographics either. And a lot of union members in Ohio and Pennsylvania aren't all that thrilled about Hillary Clinton because of Bill Clinton pushing through NAFTA.

[UALRBSofL]

22. Herman, You know this is Hillary's base

I don't think it comes as a surprise to anyone. The thing about it is to get these folks out to vote for Hillary. :)

[NJSecularist]

38. As I said in a previous post...

this is one of the foundations of Hillary's base. Whites without a college degree. Obama is not going to steal it from her as hard as he tries.

One of the foundation of Obama's base is high income whites. As hard as Hillary tries, she is not going to steal this demographic away from Obama

What is up for grabs is low-income whites with a college degree. A demographic that Hillary currently has control over. But with more focus on these voters, Obama can take away some of this voting bloc from Hillary. And this base, the one that is up for grabs, is what will ultimately determine who wins Ohio.

[UALRBSofL]

48. Other block of voters Hillary could win

Is the older women voters and the Latino voters. I did see a trend of the Latino voters below 30 y/o vote for Obama in the Potomac primaries. But, they might vote different then the southwestern Latino voters.

[NJSecularist]

56. Hillary will win white women period

I don't think there is any doubt about that. In any age demographic for white women, she is likely to win. Younger white female voters she'll win by small margins on a good day for Obama, but even on a good day for Obama she'll likely win the older white vote by a lot.

Latino voters are a wildcard. Obama had a good showing with them in New Mexico and Arizona, drawing around 40% of their vote in both states. Hillary will likely win Latinos in Texas, but if Obama can win about 40% of them in Texas, I would say he will win Texas.

In Ohio, expected Latino turnout is about 2%, so they are a statistically insignificant group there.

[Bongo Prophet]

151. I am a "white" without a degree. Obama might earn (not steal) my vote. Not only that...

I also have at least 5 voters who trust my council on details that could easily sway their minds as well. They know I am pretty involved and informed, as is Ms Prophet, another non-degreed whitey. That is 7 votes. In Texas.

Nuthin' to sneeze at, pardner. ;)

You know, folks say "so and so can NOT do this or that" as if they knew it for a fact.
Declarative and without doubt.
Maybe it would behoove some of us to have enough humility to admit areas where we really DON'T KNOW.
This might cut down on some of the fighting. Recognizing opinions and areas of uncertainty really is not that hard.

I do find your opinions thoughtfully nuanced, though I would change "steal" to "earn"...or at least a value neutral "get"
Please, do not take this as an attack.
If you read the whole thread, you will see that I am just surfing the zeitgeist, dude. (all we get to surf in DFW, anyway. A zeitgeist dude ranch.)


(behoove= an all hat no cattle double entendre --- just for kicks...:))

edit to add: all of those 7 votes are in that non-degreed category.
I must have a degree of patience to deal with this thread - give me that at least.

[rodeodance]

49. what an Elitist thing to say.

[calteacherguy]

27. You're pathetic. nt

[jackson_dem]

53. What the hell was that?

[totodeinhere]

37. The more informed and educated people are,

the more likey they are to support Obama. What does that tell us?

[Straight Shooter]

44. Answer: The more education you have, the less common sense you retain.

Well, you asked. That's one plausible answer.

[babylonsister]

50. Wow. Now educated people are bad? Crap. I love Obama because

he's brilliant because he's educated. Now I'll have to rethink that.

[Bongo Prophet]

140. C'mon, babylonsister. Not you too. Education is not bad, being rude to less educated is.

i do find it interesting that you say you "love Obama because he's brilliant because he's educated" - is that missing a comma, or do you think he's brilliant because he's educated?

I agree the he is a pretty brilliant guy, and that his education is a part of it.
I also know brilliant people who have much less formal education...

Some here are trying to stir shit up, and some are insulting those less "educated"
We can't even have a fair minded conversation because of all the rancor, and the shit stirrers - whoever they may be working for - are laughing their asses off...

Your response is level 2, outrage at the reaction to the response... okay maybe level3.

Well played, players!
Read the thread again, i actually think you might see the humor in this sad game of escalating outrage.
There have been 3 this week, so it is successful so far.
sigh.

[yellowcanine]

57. Nice. Less educated people are also more likely to believe that Noah carried baby dinosaurs on the

Ark. Yep, "edjucashun" just drives the common sense right out of you.

[Straight Shooter]

145. That explains Huckabee, Cornyn, et. al.

I said one plausible answer, and any answer cannot be applied to an entire demographic.

People who rely too much on book smarts sometimes forget that street smarts are just as valuable.

[Bongo Prophet]

146. Educated people fall for some of the same tricks as educated people do.

You've been played on this.

If education makes one too haughty to be polite and respectful to ALL PEOPLE, then it is a bad side effect, at least.
That does not mean education is bad, or all non-degreed folk believe in dinosaur noah.
i guess it can make one hyper-sensitive too.

reread the thread, it might be fun for a smart person who is presumably edjumakated like yourself.
Note the patterns of outrage, and the ebb and flow of it.
Like music.
Like someone's playing our prejudices and class assumptions like a fucking fiddle.

But don't listen to me,
for I am unedjumacated and believe in tyrannosaurus rex humbard. ;)

[rockymountaindem]

61. So now the anti-intellectualism is coming from the left, too?

Maybe I should drop out of school before I totally destroy my cred with the Democratic Party. I've only got some credits in an MA program, so I should still have some left.

:sarcasm:

[Voltaire99]

82. Clintonism is hardly "the left"

It's center-right, when not completely rightwing.

[Bongo Prophet]

148. He was jerking your chain to piss off those who may wander in. Enjoy your privileges.

Get your masters and excel. There is no left anti-intellectualism, though that would please some here is you came away with that.
If you are working on your MA, and still got snookered by this old class war distraction, then that says something, as well.

Just don't ever lose your compassion for ALL people, or you will be less of a person for it.
That's assuming you have empathy in the first place.
Whether that can be taught, or is partly biochemical or some combination, would be a more interesting discussion than the mutual outrage and shouting at each other game, don't you think?

I had less of a chance than I could have, and others are in that same boat, for whatever reason.
And yet I have learned my entire life, write music and poetry, and ponder life.
The janitor might be working on a novel.
The cook might meditate and play guitar.
The nurse who cares for you or your grandmother, and cleans up after her...
embrace them, for they are our brothers and sisters.

That is all you should take from this, if anything.
In the opinion of this simple man.

[rockymountaindem]

154. That's good advice

I wish you all the best.

[bowens43]

86. Wow , Now that's ridiculous.

Is there any group of people Hillary supporters aren't willing to smear if they think that it will help her ascend to her throne? This is why you guys are losing. Americans are sick of this crap.

[mindfulNJ]

106. Wow. Just . Wow

So education is bad and elitist now?

Where am I? I thought this was DU?


I think I'm going to be sick...:puke:

[Bongo Prophet]

156. Have a tonic - I'll get you a cold wash cloth for your head. ;)

See, we can care for each other.
Reread the thread - it is not what you think, and more than meets the eye.
Education is not bad, neither is it elitist.
I am sorry you got that from this post, and the reason I am surfing through this 7th level of stupid is that it is turning people off, with a whole range of disgust and misplaced indignation.

A few got it ramped, and the natural process flows from that.
This is textbook group wedging. A Rovian specialty from way back.
And beyond that, of course.

I am glad you think education is good.
Your heart is in the right place, I think.

[bellasgrams]

52. More media hype

[krabigirl]

125. That's a generalization, btw.

[ronnykmarshall]

168. Arrogant posters on DU?

That about sums up your little gem.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

55. I'll say this as a Texan.

I'm a native Texan and I've lived here all my life.

Some parts of Texas are quite racist. East Texas is bad, and especially around the parts Northeast of Houston such as Liberty and Vidor and Jasper, site of the horrific James Byrd, Jr. dragging murder in 1998. East Texas up thru Dallas and towards Oklahoma is quite conservative and racist. The John Birch Society was thriving in Dallas in 1963. President Kennedy was warned not to go there because of the Birch Society opposition to the Civil Rights Act.

According to Wikipedia, despite the Beaumont-Port Arthur metro area being one-fourth African-American, in the 2000 census, Vidor had 11,440 residents and only eight African-Americans. In the 1990s, H.U.D. Secretary Henry Cisneros came to town and attempted to desegregate the projects. The white people refused to let African-Americans live in the projects, despite his orders.

I'm not surprised that non-college educated whites in Texas would have a problem with Obama. I have problems with him for other reasons. I have problems with Hillary as well, for reasons other than her gender.

[babylonsister]

59. So Clinton is looking to her uneducated base for support. To me,

Obama will do fine if more educated people back him, and that's been happening across the country.
He gets every faction, educated and uneducated, rich and poor - he is awesome, and believeable.

[jackson_dem]

67. Another Obamite who forgets what the Democratic Party has always been about

We aren't the party of Harvard millionaires but of the folks who work in mills, the maids who fold sheets in motels, the truck drivers who criss cross the country and make our economy go. We always have been. "Hopefully" that doesn't "change."

[bowens43]

87. and you think this is what Hillary is about?????

ROFLMAO!! Hillary is about Hillary and power and nothing else.

[Avalux]

113. As a Hillary supporter, you forget what she's all about.

She doesn't represent the common folk; she is beholden to the DCL and corporations. It's amusing to me that she has somehow managed to convince people she's a populist.

[Bongo Prophet]

155. Dems are all that, but "not the party of Harverd millionaires?" Like JFK?

I think we have both, and think we should expand that base, as well.
On this we agree - to a degree.;)

Dems have also included the segregationists, dixiecrats and timid bigots who will toss GLBT under the bus after an election.
"Hopefully" that will continue to "change" -- don't you agree?

Maybe there is even room for your hated "Obamites"

[jeffrey_X]

58. Oh please....

this never gets old.

[David Zephyr]

65. A post from Herman without race at its core would not be a Herman post.

Race and Herman. Herman and race.

Can you spell obsession?

[NMMNG]

71. This college-educated voter doesn't like him

:shrug:

[Sapphocrat]

76. Neither does my sister with the masters degree. n/t

[emilyg]

79. I'm with your sister.

[NMMatt]

74. I do know one thing...

With all this talk about how well Hillary is going to do in Texas and Ohio, she better deliver. If not, put a fork in it.

As an Obama supporter I welcome the challenge. We can wrap this thing up, and in this election, the longer Obama has campaigned anywhere, the more the polls have broken in his favor. Also, I'd much rather be the candidate that just won eight straight elections with the smallest margin of victory being 19% than the candidate cherry picking some demographic data trying to spin UP expectations of victory in upcoming states in order to keep the race going.

[babylonsister]

78. Great post, but NMMatt, what's goin' on in NM? Any word? nt

[Voltaire99]

81. Bubba likes him some Hillary.

She's white, and she looks tough enough for Roller Derby. What's not to like?

[JVS]

83. She should grow a Mullet!

[Obamaniac]

89. I have a feeling that her new theme song will be...

"Freebird" by Lynyrd Skynyrd.

[JVS]

92. Well, "Sweet Home Alabama" is out

[bowens43]

85. Pushing the race buttons again?

More evidence that Hillary and her supporters mean more of the same.

[Obamaniac]

88. lol this is funny...

So this is what the great invincible Hillary has come to...

Next you'll say, "oh, oh. Obama better watch out because Hillary leads among white lesbian bartenders with clubbed feet and bad breath."

lol. You guys crack me up.

[Jamastiene]

90. In other words, it's the dumb white people, stupid.

That's exactly what I've been saying. Never underestimate the quantity of uneducated white people with prejudices like you wouldn't believe. Most of them won't be voting Democrat at all in the general election either. So, what does that say to us regardless of which one in our party gets the nomination?

Gladly, not all uneducated, white people will be voting based on prejudices. :eyes:

[boricua79]

95. so ignorant whites are going to be her defenders

I'm trying to handle this as sensitively as possible, but I think that's instructive. Hillary's strong base includes whites who, frankly, don't know much. And this is going to be her last stand?

If it were Bush campaigning with his 30 percenters Jesuslanders, we'd be making fun of it and laughing about it...but because it's Hillary, I guess it's ok that her last loyal base is whites without college degrees.

[JVS]

97. Can someone photoshop this to say "Vote for Hillary, morans!"

[Bongo Prophet]

157. I COULD, but I WON'T. Why not win clean, or lose clean?

nyaaahh nyaah

blaaah blaaaah blaaah'

baaah baaahh baaaahhhh


OY!


OH! and MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO


Hook'em horns.
Where I would have gone had that bastard not stole my college fund.
Pity me, now I is ignernt.

[Name removed]

165. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[aquarius dawning]

112. So ignorant blacks are going to be his defenders

I'm trying to handle this as sensitively as possible, but I think that's instructive. Barracks's strong base includes blacks who, frankly, don't know much. And this is going to be his last stand?

If it were Bush campaigning with his 30 percenters Jesuslanders, we'd be making fun of it and laughing about it...but because it's Obama, I guess it's ok that her last loyal base is blacks without college degrees.

[Occam Bandage]

129. "Barracks's strong base includes blacks who, frankly, don't know much"

FOAD.

[aquarius dawning]

158. You liked that did you?.

I know I sure liked it when the shoe was on the other foot. No double standard my ass.

[Apollo11]

100. Can we PLEASE not look down on folks who don't have a college degree.

Maybe they could not afford to go to college?

Missing out on college doesn't mean someone is stupid.

[Vinca]

110. I love the Obama voter demographics.

I feel younger, richer and smarter than I actually am. (Well, maybe I'm smart. One out of three. :rofl:)

[AtomicKitten]

103. in case you missed this:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x4581891

[janetblond]

107. NOT surprising news ...

Hillary is "the blue collar candidate".
Obama attracts a more upscale, educated group.

[slor]

117. As an AA male that grew up in Cincinnati...

this is no surprise. Racial tensions were always deeply rooted there.

[Thrill]

119. Lets see where it is after he actually visits there

She has her name recognition. The people in these states are yet to even see the guy up person. Just the majority of other states, once he gets there those will change

[Occam Bandage]

128. Wow, what a great coalition she's forming:

1. Over-60 hispanics.
2. Uneducated whites.

Yes, that spells general-election victory!

[Forkboy]

132. LOL...oy vey.

:rofl:

[tammywammy]

137. "Clinton Scrambles to Try to Reverse Obama's Momentum"

"The pummeling she took in Maryland, Virginia and the District raised new questions about her campaign's message and strategy, which Democratic strategists said she must fix if she hopes to slow Obama's growing momentum in time to defeat him in what are now must-win contests in Ohio and Texas on March 4.

"I don't believe she can wait to March 4," Democratic strategist Bill Carrick said. "She has to make a stand . There is a national trend taking hold in state after state. The early polls show a big lead and then start to evaporate when the campaign gets engaged. Texas and Ohio are not demographic enclaves immune from the national political trend."

Added another Democratic strategist: "She is doing shockingly little right now to refresh and recharge her message, to make herself or her campaign interesting, or to offer a credible alternative Obama's narrative of what the race is about. . . . She has to find a way to do those things on the way to Texas and Ohio."

Maggie Williams, Clinton's new campaign manager, conveyed the sense of urgency felt inside the campaign when she said during a conference call she and Clinton held yesterday that a number of aides had spent the night at the Virginia headquarters. "

-snip-


Why not use the real title of the article?

[Binka]

139. Scrambly Scrambly Scrambly

She is done and her supporters are desperate. And disgusting.

[Bongo Prophet]

160. Your frolicking kitty makes even the harshest words go down smooth, Binka!

Tra la la

cut like a knife, slash slash

tra la la.


Love it...
Well, not the message so much, but the kitty.
I am a softie that way. ^_^

[AnarchoFreeThinker]

142. how much of the electorate does this include, and why not also mention all the groups he

demolished her with? (A-As, Latinos, under 30s, men, whites, indies)

[dave29]

143. I am a white voter, with no college degree in Texas

and I will vote Obama

[aquarius dawning]

159. Why?

[dave29]

161. because he is my choice to be the next President

you don't need to sell me on Hillary -- I will vote for her if she is the nominee.

[nomorewhopper]

144. lmao "GREAT NEWS"!

funny thread i know you're excited to have more votes, but you're clearly pointing out that they are racist, then claiming excitement when they vote for hillary.

[jenmito]

166. I'd like to recommend this for the most misleading thread title of the day!

Good try! Mark Penn, is that you? :rofl:

[Lex Talionis]

180. Wow, so Clinton is courting the "ignit" racist vote? Is that what you mean?

Just askin'. I only have a High School diploma and I'm a white man from TN who voted for Obama in our primary. Maybe, I AM "ignit". You think thats why Bill and poppy been hangin together. Gotta give him pointers on those poor "ignit Texan rubes"and how to swing the vote from that well meaning "negro". By God! This site has been an eye opener for this Southern boy. I much appreciate all on here who have educated me on the virtues of liberal Low expatiations. GO BO!