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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:08 AM Original message |
Barack Obama will fine parents if their children don't have health care |
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PresidentObama (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:09 AM Response to Original message |
1. Great point. And one worth discussing n/t |
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Abacus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:28 AM Response to Reply #1 |
33. Exactly. |
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The Ghost (557 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:10 AM Response to Original message |
2. Children are CHILDREN |
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texas_indy (432 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:11 AM Response to Reply #2 |
4. Too bad others can''t see the difference, eh? (nt) |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:14 AM Response to Reply #2 |
6. Yes they are |
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Bluerthanblue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:19 AM Response to Reply #6 |
15. your last sentence is disingenuous- You may want to |
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The Ghost (557 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:19 AM Response to Reply #6 |
20. Yes |
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gerrilea (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 08:55 AM Response to Reply #20 |
114. There it is folks, don't give your children health care and you go to jail |
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ingac70 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:53 AM Response to Reply #6 |
66. Instead she'll penalize us all.. |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:13 AM Response to Reply #66 |
77. FACT CHECK - |
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ingac70 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:18 AM Response to Reply #77 |
82. .... |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:21 AM Response to Reply #82 |
84. In CA parents can opt out |
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gerrilea (610 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 08:58 AM Response to Reply #77 |
115. So we are now to not believe what we heard him say? |
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gateley (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:11 AM Response to Original message |
3. Both their plans need an overhaul. nt |
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dorktv (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:19 AM Response to Reply #3 |
19. oh yes, both plans suck...one sucks less than the other but that is about all. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:13 AM Response to Original message |
5. Children are cheap to insure |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:16 AM Response to Reply #5 |
11. That's not what he said... |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:21 AM Response to Reply #11 |
22. Must be through a job? |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:26 AM Response to Reply #22 |
31. I pay for it privately... |
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bjnumb9 (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:16 AM Response to Reply #11 |
101. Pandering to the YOUNG? |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:14 AM Response to Original message |
7. the whole thing is hypocrtical |
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heidler1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:21 AM Response to Reply #7 |
23. What I heard was in his reply was parents who are too poor to pay will get help |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:24 AM Response to Reply #23 |
27. And Hillary's plan has |
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heidler1 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:48 AM Response to Reply #27 |
58. What I heard was Hillary claiming her plan was better. Obama was defending his plan. |
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usregimechange (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:15 AM Response to Original message |
8. Children don't have a choice |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:17 AM Response to Reply #8 |
12. SO..... |
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slick8790 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:39 AM Original message |
They're necessary for children, FFS. |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:43 AM Response to Original message |
53. Why? He said he believes people |
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Bluerthanblue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:16 AM Response to Original message |
9. because children are not adults, and have no choice of their own |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:19 AM Response to Reply #9 |
16. He said mandates aren't necessary if people can afford the insurance.... |
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Bluerthanblue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:28 AM Response to Reply #16 |
34. well, to use your logic- |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:34 AM Response to Reply #34 |
40. the point is either you believe |
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Bluerthanblue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:40 AM Response to Reply #40 |
48. no, one scenero requires people to 'do the right thing' for another |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:41 AM Response to Reply #48 |
49. But mandates aren't necessary for people to do the right thing.... |
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Bluerthanblue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:50 AM Response to Reply #49 |
62. so you are saying that Hillary believes no one will do the right thing? |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 10:47 AM Response to Reply #62 |
119. Because she knows there are people who won't do the right thing.... |
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DemBones DemBones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:24 AM Response to Reply #9 |
28. But your son qualified for SCHIP, plenty of kids won't |
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Bluerthanblue (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:37 AM Response to Reply #28 |
44. I have always been frustratingly frugal- but if I earned more than |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:42 AM Response to Reply #28 |
50. They will receive an "income-releated federal subsidy" |
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alphafemale (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:43 PM Response to Reply #9 |
125. Parents will be fined if theydon't buy a carseat and put their kid in it. |
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LeftCoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:16 AM Response to Original message |
10. Why that sounds an awful lot like a mandate! |
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MadBadger (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:17 AM Response to Reply #10 |
14. He does have a mandate on Children, because they dont have a choice on health care. |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:20 AM Response to Reply #14 |
21. Not the point...... |
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Umbram (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:53 PM Response to Reply #21 |
127. Wow... |
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LeftCoast (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:30 AM Response to Reply #14 |
37. But all the arguments against HRC's mandates also apply here |
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noiretextatique (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:03 AM Response to Reply #10 |
96. it's just a mandate for children, which is not really a mandate |
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DemBones DemBones (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:17 AM Response to Original message |
13. I couldn't believe he said that, can't believe anybody supports |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:19 AM Response to Reply #13 |
17. You got me |
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barb162 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:52 AM Response to Reply #17 |
64. He was smug all evening n/t |
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K Gardner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:19 AM Response to Reply #13 |
18. Oh lordy.. Hillary's whole plan is one BIG MANDATE for everybody ! Wage garnishment, fines for ALL. |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:21 AM Response to Reply #18 |
24. Hypocrisy is saying mandates aren't necessary |
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FrenchieCat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:25 AM Response to Reply #24 |
30. Mandates for those who cannot be given a choice, like children |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:23 AM Response to Reply #18 |
26. But Obama said she won't garnish wages |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:34 AM Response to Reply #26 |
41. What are you talking about? |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:43 AM Response to Reply #41 |
52. What are you talking about |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:47 AM Response to Reply #52 |
56. The NYT is correct, and Hillary did say she plans to go after wages. n/t |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:11 AM Response to Reply #56 |
75. Ha ha ha - the NY Times is correct |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:31 AM Response to Reply #75 |
89. No because I watched the debate. The fact is, Hillary's mandates include garnishing wages. tn/t |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:14 AM Response to Reply #56 |
78. FACT CHECK |
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mculator (658 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:02 PM Response to Reply #18 |
132. Don't watch Sicko K |
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The_Casual_Observer (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:22 AM Response to Original message |
25. Obama's plan would never happen anyway, so the details aren't |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:25 AM Response to Original message |
29. Are you being desperate? The issue is not mandating children and the entire exchange is clear: |
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K Gardner (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:28 AM Response to Reply #29 |
35. Stop it. That requires reading.. and thinking.. and processing. Enough already :-) No mas factoids. |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:29 AM Response to Reply #29 |
36. duh..... |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:37 AM Response to Reply #36 |
43. People who want Hillary to garnish their wages can stick with her. n/t |
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BlackVelvet04 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:37 AM Response to Reply #43 |
45. yeah so irresponsible young people can continue to drain |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:51 AM Response to Reply #45 |
63. The only alternative is to garner people's wages? |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:57 AM Response to Reply #45 |
68. Speaking of young people -The California University system requires that all students have insurance |
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ProSense (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:30 AM Response to Reply #68 |
88. A Message to Sen. Clinton -- Forcing People to Buy Insurance is Not Universal Healthcare |
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Mr.Fitzgibbons (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:59 PM Response to Reply #68 |
131. This is true -- in fact,most universities require this. My undergrad & grad schools did. |
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bjnumb9 (157 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:26 AM Response to Reply #45 |
105. I notice a reoccuring theme in your posts... |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:35 AM Response to Reply #29 |
42. Ah well - you copied my response to you from the other thread |
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Control-Z (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 05:31 AM Response to Reply #29 |
110. Okay, so |
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casus belli (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 05:48 AM Response to Reply #29 |
111. self delete - response to wrong thread |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:28 AM Response to Original message |
32. As a poor person I have no faith in either of their plans. |
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Fox Mulder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:30 AM Response to Reply #32 |
38. I don't either. |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:38 AM Response to Reply #38 |
46. I know they did. |
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Fox Mulder (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:39 AM Response to Reply #46 |
47. I know. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:43 AM Response to Reply #32 |
51. At least his isn't mandated |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:47 AM Response to Reply #51 |
57. God knows you still haven't read her plan. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:50 AM Response to Reply #57 |
61. You're moving pretty close to stalking n/t |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:16 AM Response to Reply #61 |
79. Why because I am responding to you responding to my thread? |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:01 AM Response to Reply #51 |
69. I'm so poor I'm not stuck for anything. I have better insurance than my hard working buds. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:05 AM Response to Reply #69 |
71. Shoudn't they have something good too? |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:12 AM Response to Reply #71 |
76. I honestly feel bad for my friend. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:35 AM Response to Reply #76 |
90. It's been a problem for a long time |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:53 AM Response to Reply #90 |
93. it;s not to that point yet, but he pays $17 for a med that costs me $1. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:07 AM Response to Reply #93 |
98. You shouldn't feel guilty at all |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:10 AM Response to Reply #98 |
100. I have to worry, I see my friend struggling everyday. |
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sandnsea (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:24 AM Response to Reply #100 |
104. I agree, I hope we find it n/t |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:18 AM Response to Reply #69 |
81. Mass Health is mandated right? |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:24 AM Response to Reply #81 |
85. I honestly don't know. It wasn't mandated for me. |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:29 AM Response to Reply #85 |
86. MassHealth is mandated. |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:50 AM Response to Reply #86 |
92. I'm not following you. |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:06 AM Response to Reply #92 |
97. You have MassHealth |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:08 AM Response to Reply #97 |
99. I should probably pay attention to these things huh? |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:17 AM Response to Reply #99 |
102. LOL! It's confusing... |
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Forkboy (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:22 AM Response to Reply #102 |
103. Warm? What's that? |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:34 AM Response to Reply #103 |
106. I hear there's snow back there! |
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better tomorrow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:33 AM Response to Original message |
39. I am a senior citizen on Medicare.... |
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LBJDemocrat (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:45 AM Response to Original message |
54. I'm against any mandate |
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busymom (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:46 AM Response to Original message |
55. This is why his criticisms of her healthcare plan are so absurd... |
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better tomorrow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:50 AM Response to Reply #55 |
60. The key is Penalty....not fines |
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NastyRiffraff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:54 AM Response to Reply #55 |
67. BINGO! |
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better tomorrow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:02 AM Response to Reply #67 |
70. The problem with saying the term Universal... |
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NastyRiffraff (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:16 AM Response to Reply #70 |
80. So, Obama's plan is basically more of the same |
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RoadRage (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:48 AM Response to Original message |
59. He fines parents.. She fines everyone - that's the difference |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:05 AM Response to Reply #59 |
72. As FactCheck points out - she doesn't say she will fine everyone |
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VenusRising (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:52 AM Response to Original message |
65. Obama's Healthcare plan from his website. |
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better tomorrow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:05 AM Response to Reply #65 |
73. the part that I like is.... |
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VenusRising (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:20 AM Response to Reply #73 |
83. I saw that story, too! |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:09 AM Response to Reply #65 |
74. Clinton's Plan |
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better tomorrow (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:41 AM Response to Reply #74 |
91. Paperless..... |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:37 AM Response to Reply #91 |
108. Paperless |
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Thrill (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:30 AM Response to Original message |
87. Of course. Thats the right position. Kids don't have a choice |
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Colobo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:55 AM Response to Original message |
94. Adults can make their own decisions. Children can't. |
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kerrygoddess (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:03 AM Response to Original message |
95. Mandates and the Dem Convention |
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Hippo_Tron (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:36 AM Response to Original message |
107. I could be wrong, but don't many people whose children qualify for medicaid not sign them up? |
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Laurab (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:50 AM Response to Reply #107 |
109. I believe he said something similar to that. |
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casus belli (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 05:49 AM Response to Original message |
112. Hillary and Obama's plans both have fines. |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 09:03 AM Response to Reply #112 |
116. Hillary has spoken against fines (penalties). |
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casus belli (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:09 PM Response to Reply #116 |
120. Come on now. |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:52 PM Response to Reply #120 |
121. automatic measures to enroll people |
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casus belli (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:58 PM Response to Reply #121 |
122. The term is "enforcement mechanism"... |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:37 PM Response to Reply #122 |
124. No, Hillary has not subscribed to any form of punishment. |
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casus belli (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:47 PM Response to Reply #124 |
126. You've just described the end goal of both plans. |
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BootinUp (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:14 PM Response to Reply #126 |
134. You suggest that Barack does not know the definition |
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Vinca (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 07:51 AM Response to Original message |
113. Hillary will fine everyone. Neither has a good plan. We need Kucinich's. nt |
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ileus (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 09:08 AM Response to Original message |
117. Sounds like a load of people are going to have to get jobs if he's elected. |
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boston bean (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 09:08 AM Response to Original message |
118. he basically called all those parents irresponsible. nt |
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gravity (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 12:59 PM Response to Original message |
123. Children don't have a choice. Adults do. nt |
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Mr.Fitzgibbons (77 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:54 PM Response to Original message |
128. We desperately need a national health system & Obama's plan seems more humane than Clinton's |
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jillan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:55 PM Response to Original message |
129. delete - |
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jillan (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 01:58 PM Response to Original message |
130. I loved it at the debate when he implied that he would fine a parent when s/he brings their |
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backscatter712 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Sun Feb-24-08 02:07 PM Response to Original message |
133. As usual, it's more complicated than the Hillary fans make it. |
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