I APOLOGIZE for my hasty trust in "The Internets" regarding the You Tube video

[Armstead]

I may have done what I hate -- jumping to conclusions before the evidence is all in.
I have generally tried to avoid doing that, as a matter of principle.

So this is my contingency apology if the video turns out to be wrong.

My only defense if it is indeed a fake video,is that this primary has been so overall rotten -- and the Rev, Wright stuff makes me so angry --- that I let my anger and frustration cloud my better judgment and more decent instincts.

Whether the video is real or not, we all should not jump to conclusions so easily, on any side.

I want this whole primary to be over, so we can turn our attention to the GOP instead of engaging in this circular firing squad. :banghead:

[Joe the Revelator]

1. Its not doctored...see this thread

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5781290&mesg_id=5781290

[Texas Hill Country]

37. you do realize that by pushing this meme, you could be implicated in a libel suit i believe...

i mean, it could turn out to be true, but....

would suck if it werent?

not calling you out, just letting you know


a couple DUers have already been sued.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

47. Are you talking about the DUers who were sued by that Sinclair idiot?

You are as dumb as he is if you think a libel suit against random bloggers (about something that is TRUE no less) will have legs.

[Texas Hill Country]

51. 1. I dont think this is true, 2. you still have to go to court and pay for a lawyer

3. just sayin... he seems REALLY pissed, and guess where the meme started...

[mrreowwr_kittty]

54. I can get my lawyer fees back if it's a bullshit lawsuit. nt

[Mezzo]

68. and you could pay out the arse since it isn't. nt

[mrreowwr_kittty]

71. Jesus Christ on a pogo stick you people are loony.

Can we countersue you guys for pushing the Obama-is-an-unpatriotic-Muslim meme? I'm sure I can track you down on hillaryclintonforum.net and pull up some of your posts there. I'll just be calling my attorney now.

:eyes:

[Tesha]

58. You know, things have really reached a nadir when one side must resort to

threats of SLAPP actions to try to carry their political case.

It's really pathetic.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strategic_lawsuit_against_public_participation

Tesha

[kiranon]

70. Court would determine if it were a SLAPP suit. Probably not.

It is my understanding that SLAPP suits are brought to prevent someone from speaking the truth or advocating their legitimate position for or against something. If the video is doctored, a lawsuit brought over it will, IMHO, not fall in the category of a SLAPP suit should the injured party sue for libel. The libel may fall into the category of "libel per se" which means the person harmed does not have to prove the libel only the damages. Libel per se damages someone in his reputation related to his job/position. There are other categories of libel per se as well. This is an oversimplification but points to the problems that may occur if the video is doctored. Don't know if the "libel per se" part would transfer to those who disseminate the information after the original libel takes place. Law probably varies from state to state but plaintiffs may be able to pick the jurisdiction that gives them the most advantage if the libel were spread over the entire country/world.

[Hoof Hearted]

52. We know how badly you all want it to be legitimate, but it is not.

In an earlier version posted yesterday, the clip was circulating with a subtitle indicating -- Pennebaker says inaccurately -- that Kantor had insulted Indianans; the racial slur appears to have been added to the second version


Several sources have now confirmed it is a doctored fake.

[JackORoses]

49. you might want to change your underpants

I think this story has gotten the better of you.

[Joe the Revelator]

57. Is that threat? Is this how you shut down discussion?

Don't worry, I have very good lawyers.

[Armstead]

64. If that were the case, GW Bush could have sued us all a long time ago

[dionysus]

65. ooooh tough guy, tremble tremble....

what an asshat....

[Hoof Hearted]

48. We know how badly you want it to be legitimate, but it is not.

Several sources have now confirmed it is a doctored fake.

[Joe the Revelator]

56. Put up or shut up. Produce the undoctored version. Until then this is real.

Because all the spin in the world can't change what people are hearing.

[NashVegas]

2. Appreciated, Armstead

I am on team Hillary, and didn't question the authenticity, either, not even when I started to think his words may have been taken entirely out of context.

[Coexist]

3. I listened to the entire thing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_wKOgMNs0U

I did hear "shittin" but I am still of the mind that he uses that slur after that. And I listened about 5 times.

[WinkyDink]

4. So now Obama supporters are just to be given their Emily Latella gimme?

"Never mind."

[Armstead]

9. I'll chop off my pinkie finger to atone if you prefer

:eyes:

[zanne]

17. I understand why you want the video to be doctored, but it isn't.

Nice try, though.

[zanne]

5. You weren't hasty; the video is real, all right.

He said what he said. All you have to do is read his lips.

[ORDagnabbit]

11. dont even have to read his lips plug in ear phones and turn the volume way up. unmistakable

[americanstranger]

22. Yes, that is what he said. Kantor's lying.

And I'm going by 'War Room #9' - not the shorter clip.

Unless the whole movie is doctored, Kantor said it.

- as

[lapfog_1]

6. It's not a fake... however he may not have said the n-word.

but he did say that voters in Indiana were "shit".

That's very clear and the clip was taken from the film "War Room". There are plenty of copies of that so it should be very easy to check.

And why, if it was totally faked, does Kantor himself say that it's taken out of context?

[Quixote1818]

12. Watch the origional. Yes, he did say the N-word.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_wKOgMNs0U

[lapfog_1]

31. Just watched the whole segment of the film

and I agree. The reason he whispers is that he knows he said something very bad.

And he looks guilty.

[spooky3]

62. and why would ANYONE do that when being filmed?

Read what the director of the film says - the YouTube clip is doctored, as has been posted at politico.com and at DU.

[zanne]

72. Why would Rev. Wright say what HE said while being filmed? nt

[durrrty libby]

7. Here.. buy the original. Millions have watched it already with no hysteria

Read the reviews


http://www.amazon.com/War-Room-James-Carville/dp/B0002JUXDS/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=dvd&qid=1209745108&sr=8-1

[ORDagnabbit]

8. It is not a fake I can hear the same thing in the original as well!

[Quixote1818]

10. It's not doctored. Watch the origional here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_wKOgMNs0U

[leftofcool]

16. It was just confirmed to be a fake by the director of the original and an independent expert

[zanne]

19. BS

[cliffordu]

21. Which independent expert would that be??

Stephanopolis??

[Occam Bandage]

26. Unsurprising that Team Clinton is rallying around Mickey. Who's the "independent expert?"

[TahitiNut]

46. I just love how the "independent expert" has suddenly and miraculously appeared ...

... in the fun-house mirror of a Hillbot's delusions. Unhinged, for sure. :eyes:

[Quixote1818]

27. He means the sub-text

But the guy still says the N word. They are trying to muddy the waters.

[Blue_Roses]

32. who?

you?

[wowimthere]

45. No there are two vids circulating. But in both he clearly says, "those people are shit". That is..

definitive and he was talking about Indianians.

[Texas_Kat]

59. Since they were winning in Indiana, that doesn't even make sense.

Undoctored video posted Feb 16 2008

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_wKOgMNs0U

[2rth2pwr]

13. The depths that the Obama supporters will sink to gives the politics of hope

it's real meaning.

[bowens43]

39. Oh the irony of a hillbot posting this!!

[NashVegas]

42. Please

Armstead is being sincere. Please save this for another thread made by someone with less class.

Thanks.

[wowimthere]

50. Look at the original tape... forget the translated one. In the original movie... He says...

"who cares... those people are shit." And then he speaks I guess in his native tongue and it is translated.

[sfam]

14. Well at least you had your joy...you still can though!

Chances are the MSM runs with it anyways. Why should truth or logic matter? It certainly didn't with the Wright thing, so why would you expect it to now?

So I say keep dancing on the grave that has become the democratic party's reputation as a serious institution!

[Aloha Spirit]

15. Haha, very classy. This must be the one corner of the internet where people issue corrections.

[ShortnFiery]

18. Oh stop! Your "mixed feelings" are all over the place. It's TRUE! And the M$M is running with it.

:thumbsup:

[Armstead]

66. I do have mixed feelings about a lot of things -- Because I try to keep an open mind

The only time I might not have mixed feelings would be if someone like Bernie Sanders or Pail Wellstone were running.

But in the world of reality, I try to keep my biases seperate from my perceptions of reality.

[suston96]

20. Sorry, Kantor's lips and "white n.....r" do not sync. And...who says he was referring to...

...the people of Indiana? He was referring to the White House!

[wowimthere]

55. The original shows that when he says "those people are shit" that he's talking about Indiana

No mistaking that. The other part was translated by someone who spoke his native language and translated it. Obmciously, the vieographer didn't know what Kantor said but the person translating the doctored one knows. He said "white n$%%ers".

[Cessna Invesco Palin]

23. It's not a fake video, but he's not saying what the captions say he's saying.

It's like the old confusion over Purple Haze by Hendrix - "Excuse me while I kiss this guy." It doesn't even make any sense to insult Indiana in the context of that conversation.

[JohnnyLib2]

24. Gracias.

Probably anyone on either side could live and learn.

[RiverStone]

25. And now I hear if it is fake, the "doctored video" was planted by an HRC supporter!

To make Obama look bad.

And NO - I'm not saying that is true either!

The spin is all that seems to matter now - who will win the spin?

Yea, it is too easy to jump to conclusions (I may have too - we'll see) but I share your anger - and I'll blame the media for creating a climate where pay back is the goal and end game.

[BleedingHeartPatriot]

28. Thanks Armstead, you are a class act!

:toast:

[LSK]

29. he said those people are shit

Right after the Indiana returns were read.

No denying that.

[NashVegas]

30. He Said "Shitting"

They were celebrating an exit poll showing Clinton leading in Indiana. Why diss a state that's voting for you?

[LSK]

33. Clinton lost Indiana

http://edition.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/states/indiana.html

Stop living in denial already!!!

Just stop it Crisco, you were a respected DUer, why soil it?

:wtf:

[NashVegas]

38. But the Poll They Were Reading Showed Them Ahead

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_wKOgMNs0U

Go to 4:00 in.

[Texas Hill Country]

34. apology accepted.

[Life Long Dem]

35. I looked at both videos

and I don't see that it is doctored. Too many people are also saying the same thing.

And for them to say "He says they must be shi**ing in the White House." is way off. Nothing to worry about, you did the right thing in posting this.

[TheZug]

36. Just buy/rent the DVD and see if it's there.

It's sure as hell there on the youtube.

[ampad]

40. That video is not doctored

Listen to it with headphones and you can clearly hear him say nigger. You know it's good that he is lying and Hillary supporters are so overjoyed to have an out but it is not happening. All this is going to do is have people analyze the context and keep this going.

[davsand]

41. This entire primary has made Dem look terrible at times.

At times Dems have been painted to be either foaming at the mouth angry haters of 'murica or else, now, kkklansmen wearing pinstripe suits. Jeeesh. We ARE better than this--every single ONE of us. The biggest fear I have now is that the MSM is gonna ride both these stories into the sunset and a GOP win in the General becomes possible.

Makes me f*cking puke.

Locally I am known (and not always liked) as being one picky ass bitch about who I'll work in any given election. I have this personal belief that we OWE it to ourselves and our party to run clean and to run based on issues. I can and DO sit out races when the Dem involved won't run a clean campaign, and you have to know that this Primary has been most difficult to see. All the lies and bullshit makes the work of electing DEMOCRATS that much tougher.

I can't WAIT for it to end. We ALL look like absolute imbeciles to voters at this point.



Laura

[wowimthere]

43. He clearly says "those people are shit".

Someone translated the video and others will try to say it's doctored but it's not doctored... it was translated.

[newmajority]

44. Upon watching the original clip, I have reached the following conclusions

1) He may have said "Those people are SHITTY" as opposed to "Those people are SHIT". What's the difference?

2) He definitely said "white niggers". No mistaking it. Period.

Fuck KKKantor, and fuck anyone who defends him.

[Barack_America]

53. I came to the same conclusion. Maybe "people are shitting", but DEFINITELY "white n*ggers".

I've listened to the original clip no less than a dozen times and that is my conclusion.

I don't want to be played either and I questioned where this video came from. But, having listened to the original, it is correct.

[futureliveshere]

60. Don't apologize dude. Hear the original

He might have said shitty instead of shit (which is the same thing), but he has DEFINITELY said white niggers. Turn the volume up and listen with headphones.

[izzybeans]

61. The only thing different between that video and the original, was the pause

to insert the text. The audio is exactly as is. And he said "Those people are shit" I can't tell if he said "White Niggers" or "White something or other" but both are inexcusable.

[spooky3]

63. this post is a breath of fresh air.

You've set a good example for all of us. Thanks.

[Mezzo]

67. That is actually big of you, thank you so much for taking the time to do such a nice thing

:hug:

[usrbs]

69. Thanks. It is appreciated..

I've learned always to wait a bit before reacting to anything in the campaigns, because so many times it has turned out to be untrue.

[Lilith Velkor]

73. Good on you.

:toast: