So. How does Kantor get his reputation back?

[Bluebear]

While people are playing political football with his "quote", has anybody thought what they are doing to Mr. Kantor's reputation if this whole thing turns out to be false? Does it matter?


====
As for the N-word, Kantor angrily said he is a civil rights lawyer. His father was kicked off the Nashville school board for favoring integration.

"I am outraged about this. I would ever ever use that word about anyone at any time," Kantor said. "If I find out who did this, I'm suing them for libel."

http://blog.washingtonpost.com/the-trail/2008/05/02/dirty_tricks_gone_viral.html?hpid=topnews

====

[leftofcool]

1. Suing the jerks who circulated it and published it will be enough

[ronnykmarshall]

2. He could start here.

[Bluebear]

3. Oh, is he monitoring GDP too?

:hide:

[Texas Hill Country]

60. apparently the press is.

[Goblinmonger]

43. Good luck with that.

You might want to look into the standards that public figures have in regard to slander/libel before acting like that would be a possibility.

[lastliberalintexas]

54. Kantor is probably not a public figure though

I would think he has a good argument against the heightened standard anyway.


on edit- I am not saying he would win, just that the normal standard for defamation should probably apply to him.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

56. You Have To Prove Malice Or A Reckless Disregard For The Truth

It would be easy to prove malice if it can be demonstrated that the video was doctored...

[Goblinmonger]

65. AND you have

to prove that there is some impact. What exactly has he suffered? What has he lost? Who the hell, other than a bunch of internet political junkies even know about this?

[DemocratSinceBirth]

68. Actual Damages

You need to ask a lawyer...

But he has a meritorious or colorable claim...

[Goblinmonger]

70. There needs to be damages

I think that would be hard to prove.

[depakid]

91. Nope- don't have to prove monetary injury in libel cases

Here's pretty standard jury instruction:

LIBEL/SLANDER--GENERAL OR COMPENSATORY DAMAGES

If you find that the defendant defamed plaintiff by a libel and that such libel was a cause of general damages to plaintiff, in determining the amount of such general damage, you should consider but are not limited to the following:

(1) The extent of the publicity given by the defendant to the libel;

(2) Plaintiff's good name, reputation, and the loss thereof;

(3) Plaintiff's shame, mortification, injured feelings and mental suffering;

<(4) Plaintiff's prominence in the community where he lives;>

<(5) Plaintiff's professional or business standing in the community where he does business.>

In determining the amount of plaintiff's damage, the law does not establish any absolute fixed or mathematical rule or standard by which to compute such damage; therefore, you may exercise your discretion but must do so without passion or prejudice for or against either party.

[lastliberalintexas]

83. Actually, defamation is unlike most other tort claims in that

proof of actual damages is not required. One can still recover either statutory or punitive damages or both.

[NJSecularist]

44. Daily Kos would be a good start.

The center of the Obama netroots operation.

[Hepburn]

51. LOL.....

...sue for what? Interpreting what he said on a video that he took no care with to make sure his words were not open to interpretation?

:rofl:

[DemocratSinceBirth]

53. The Misinterpeting Part Can Be Argued

But He specifically denies calling Indianans "white n--ers" as does the producer of the documentary...

[tularetom]

4. I guess he could go ask Rev. Wright about that

Did anybody think about what all the fake outrage over his sermons did to his reputation.

Quit whining Kantor and be a man. You clinton people are "tough", you're "fighters", remember?

[Bluebear]

7. The two situations are not the same, unfortunately.

Were Wright's videos doctored? Love them, hate them, there they were. That it's "fake outrage" to you doesn't give you the right to ruin another man's reputation.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

9. They were taken out of context.

Same thing as doctoring.

:shrug:

[PBS Poll-435]

31. In what court or law school or John Grisham movie?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

32. Uh, you should have learned this in high school, if not earlier.

Purposefully taking things out of context is the equivalent of misquoting somebody.

It is lying. It is dishonest.

And it is the intellectual and moral equivalent of doctoring audio.

Not that I think that either applies to you.

[PBS Poll-435]

37. They are not equal if they are different. Those were Wright's words

He doesn't dispute it.

The director of The War Room is making the implication that those are NOT Kantor's words.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

38. "They are.... equal" - prodn2000

Hey, thanks for agreeing with me.

:hi:

[lastliberalintexas]

41. That's not taken out of context, that is misquoting

There is a difference in the law, sorry.

I am not saying that to bash or defend anyone, just explain that the law views those types of actions differently.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

"That's not... misquoting"

Exactly.

:thumbsup:

[lastliberalintexas]

46. Whatever, there is no actionable claim

for taking something out of context, there is for defamation.

[PBS Poll-435]

48. !

:thumbsup:

[rox63]

72. It's actually closer to Bitter-gate

Real words taken out of context, spread around with the actual meaning removed.

[Cheap_Trick]

35. Wright's sermons were cherry-picked

and taken out of context, but that's okay as long as it benefits Hillary, right?

[leftynyc]

39. It's disgusting but not libel (n/t)

[Bluebear]

77. Well, I voted for Edwards but whatever

[DemocratSinceBirth]

52. You Are Out Of Your Fucking Mind

What does being or not being a fighter have to do with pissed off about being libeled...

[Hepburn]

55. There is no defamation of any nature whatsoever involved.

If Kantor wished to make sure there was never a misunderstanding and/or a misinterpretation about what he said, he should have done something to clarify the same 16 years ago when this video was made. He assumed the risk of misinterpretation and misquoting by doing nothing to protect himself.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

61. He's Not Talking About The Shit Comment

HE SPECIFICALLY DENIES CALLING INDIANANS "WHITE N--ERS" AS DOES THE PRODUCER OF THE DOCUMENTARY....

REASONABLE PEOPLE CAN DISAGREE WHO HE WAS REFERRING TO WITH THE "SHIT" COMMENT...

[olkaz]

5. Wow, is this professional concern trolling by the washington post?

Ugh.

[John Q. Citizen]

6. It looks like he has to sue the WaPo and the Sydney Morning Herald for their early 90's stories

on "The War Room." I wonder why he let this go so long?

In The Washington Post's review of the film in 1993, critic Desson Howe referred to "a Mickey Kantor comment about the people of Indiana (when it looks as though Clinton's ahead in Dan Quayle's state)."

And a 1995 story in the Sydney Morning Herald said that "As for the good folk of Indiana, they are still recovering from the 1993 documentary War Room, which revealed the grim truth behind the Clinton election campaign. It showed Mr Kantor bursting in on election night to tell other campaign staffers that incredibly, Mr Clinton was doing well even in Republican Indiana. 'And those people are s---!' he declared breathlessly."

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/05/the-mystery-of.html
:rofl:

[Bluebear]

8. Maybe he doesn't read the Sydney "Harold"

[John Q. Citizen]

36. Maybe, maybe not. A typo doesn't change the facts, though. Thanks for the proof reading.

[Zachstar]

11. Ouch!

[SoCalDem]

10. I'll cry myself to sleep tonight over his lost reputation

:rofl:

[Bluebear]

12. Wow.

[JuniperLea]

21. Jeez...

:eyes:

[Buzz Clik]

13. No problem. It's as easy as putting the toothpaste back in the tube.

[Orsino]

14. He didn't have a reputation to mar.

He was never famous enough for people to care about a faked or out-of-context quote. No one who would care about his reputation will still be paying attention next week.

[JuniperLea]

17. You don't have to be "famous" to have a reputation

Trust me, he has a reputation in his circle of clients and friends.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

67. Exactly

If I was libeled I would go to any lengths to clear my name...


"A good name is better than precious ointment..."

-Ecclesiastes 7:1

[JuniperLea]

76. Me too... even if only to set an example

This sort of thing needs to stop.

[Orsino]

80. They already know the story's bogus, or will very soon.

I won't say that he can't be hurt at all; I'm just relieved that it's about to blow over, with no lasting damage. I think.

[JuniperLea]

92. One would hope so

But there are still people who think Saddam had WMD. Once a lie is out there, there is no guarantee that all the people who heard the lie will also hear the truth.

[Bluebear]

18. So only very famous people can be hurt by slander or libel?

[Orsino]

79. Not what I said at all.

Kantor may feel hurt and embarrassed now, but I felt very differently about the story a little while ago, too. I think that this story can be debunked effectively enough that it will get no traction with anyone Kantor cares about.

He could be damaged if the story somehow turns out to be true, or is perceived to be possibly true for much longer. I don't think that's going to happen.

[lastliberalintexas]

45. Strange, I knew who he was

Even met him when I worked in DC. Perhaps he was better known than many think.

Though that has absolutely nothing to do with the OP.

[JuniperLea]

15. I hope they find out who did this, and Kantor sues their asses off

This sort of bullshit will only continue if it's not nipped in the bud.

[SwampG8r]

27. yes nip it

nip it in the bud

[JuniperLea]

34. LOL!!

Keeper!

[DearAbby]

Nip it...nip it....nip it good

:::smiley with a leather whip::: :evilgrin:

[SoxFan]

16. He doesn't

Jake Tapper has retracted his retraction, and now indicates that the original statement is true; only the "white ni**ers" statement was doctored.

[leftynyc]

42. ONLY??!!!

That's actionable right there. Even if you hate the guy and the person he is supporting, surely you can agree with it being disgusting.

[Goblinmonger]

47. Yeah, right

Maybe on a copyright basis, but not for libel/slander for god's sake. It was stupid and my BS meter went off right away, but I wouldn't not call it "actionable."

[leftynyc]

66. They put words in his mouth and

posted it on the internet as truth. It was then disseminated throughout the press - TV, radio, etc. If they find the person who uploaded it, it's actionable as libel.

[Goblinmonger]

71. And the damages

would be? What about the Larry Flynt/Falwell case? He is a public figure. It's not the same as you and me.

[leftynyc]

74. I see your point on that

and with the internet being sort of brand new to this sort of thing, it would be interesting to see the precendent established (or not as the case may be). Just how "famous" does a person have to be to have no protection under this, I wonder?

[ShortnFiery]

19. What reputation? ... even without the snide comments Kantor's demeanor screamed "smarmy" to me?

:shrug: Oh boy, does this mean HRC will now get "in front of the class" and SHAME OBAMACANS again?

Oh please? It's like being in Junior High School and having an CLUELESS authoritarian substitute teacher.

Many of us hold profound resentments for Power/Control FREAK type of Leaders (HRC).

Oh please don't scold us Miss. Hilly?!? Wees didn't mean to upset y'all. :evilgrin:

[Bluebear]

22. OK, we'll just let the whole thing stand because you think he is smarmy.

[ShortnFiery]

29. When you work for HRC's campaign, IMO, you check your SHAME at the door.

No lie, I believe that. But the feigned indignation is sure to come! We must have us "a show." :eyes:

[Dogmudgeon]

40. Feigned indignation

:rofl:

--p!

[powergirl]

20. He should apologize for the "shit" statement

and sue whoever doctored the video for the racial statement. He has no cause of action for the words he did, in fact say. His reputation is his to protect, not ours to defend.

[Bluebear]

23. 'His reputation is his to protect, not ours to defend.' - very progressive.

If he has nothing to hide, he has nothing to fear, right?

[powergirl]

97. Correct

n/t

[techtrainer]

26. Apologize for saying "The're Shitting at the White House"?

[ProSense]

30. No for this:

In the footage, Kantor approaches the two aides and says, "Look at Indiana -- wait, wait, look at Indiana. 42-40. It doesn't matter if we win, those people are shit." That much seems true, though Pennebaker says Kantor was referring to the George H.W. Bush White House.

link

Jake Tapper reposted on the Kantor issue:

It's all a mess, though I must say when "The War Room" came out other folks interpreted Kantor to be impugning Indiana residents.

In The Washington Post's review of the film in 1993, critic Desson Howe referred to "a Mickey Kantor comment about the people of Indiana (when it looks as though Clinton's ahead in Dan Quayle's state)."

And a 1995 story in the Sydney Morning Herald said that "As for the good folk of Indiana, they are still recovering from the 1993 documentary War Room, which revealed the grim truth behind the Clinton election campaign. It showed Mr Kantor bursting in on election night to tell other campaign staffers that incredibly, Mr Clinton was doing well even in Republican Indiana. 'And those people are s---!' he declared breathlessly."

[ProSense]

24. Maybe they should make him explain and apologize for Sidney Blumenthal. n/t

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

25. If he wants people to think more highly of him...

he should stop supporting Hillary Clinton.

[Barack_America]

28. Back away quietly, citing not wanting to be a "distraction".

i.e. leave her campaign immediately.

[graycem]

33. How does Obama

get his back after his words were deliberately twisted courtesy Ms.Fowler, Rev.Wright when his words were taken out of context and played 24/7 for 2 weeks? Obama for all the "flipping Hillary off" videos and threads posted here?

[invictus]

49. He is a Clinton crony. His fortunes will rise and fall with theirs. n/t

[rodeodance]

59. so much for HOPE.-and UNITY Its just a ruse when you say comments like that.

[izzybeans]

50. Same way Wright does.

[kdpeters]

57. It seems an apology would be the first order of business

for calling the people of Indiana "shitty".

[Texas Hill Country]

58. as he should sue them

[rodeodance]

62. REC

[rodeodance]

63. Good question to reflect on.

[rox63]

64. He should ask this question to whoever posted the video

And I've seen no evidence so far linking it to any of the campaigns.

[damntexdem]

69. Other than Kantor, who gives a damn?

We have real problems in this country. We don't need to address what happened 16 years ago, not until we've started reversing the Dubya deterioration and destruction.

[Bluebear]

73. People concerned with fairness?

[wowimthere]

75. He didn't use the N word. Let's be honest here. I saw the tape and he didn't use it.

[beachmom]

78. Very few people know this story. Good lord, most people haven't even heard of Kantor. nt

[Bluebear]

82. Most people haven't heard of you, but I will bet something like this would upset you.

[beachmom]

84. But unlike him, I am not the type to immediately lawyer up and threaten everyone.

I mean, I have seen so many people "YouTubed", it's insane. Meanwhile, mainstream outlets are not running with it. This is not like what was done to John Kerry during the botched joke, which was shown for an entire week, so that people I know who don't follow politics know about it.

[cliffordu]

81. Suicide.

[JVS]

87. The Vince Foster solution

;-)

[cliffordu]

88. FOCK, LOL. Somehow I never thought of that...

:rofl:

[DemsUnited]

85. Oh, good lord. This was a six hour brouhaha that 99% of the population

will never even hear about.

[Bluebear]

89. Indeed, but the point being is that to many people here, campaigns trump humanity

As long as their candidate gets a "gotcha" moment for them to revel in, who cares about the real people that are being hurt?

[JVS]

86. Maybe he can tour the media and talk about why he called IN residents shit.

That would help a lot.

[nichomachus]

90. Well, first you'd have to establish that his reputation suffered

any serious harm. The story was too fast moving from beginning to end to do that.

The MSM circled the wagons in record time on this to protect Ms. Rodham. When was the last time you saw such quick action to debunk scurrilous rumors against any other Democrat. Usually, they are left twisting in the wind and any correction comes way too late to do any good.

For example, the phony Howard Dean "scream" was played ad nauseam for months on every media outlet from news shows to comedy shows. Everyone in the media knew, or had to know, it was a setup and there was no such maniacal scream. Yet, I think there was one tiny article that discussed what really happened.

As far as a libel case, he would need to prove damages, and because of the fast-moving nature of the story, he would have a hard time doing that.

[Pawel K]

93. Except it won't turn out false. Everyone can hear it with their own 2 ears

[Bluebear]

94. Let me guess, you still have a "Members Only" windbreaker :)

[Pawel K]

95. I don't get it

but the fact still remains he said the N word.

[Bluebear]

96. You're about the last person here who believes this

[Pawel K]

98. Here:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5787444