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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 03:29 PM
Original message
Hillary advisers whine about hurdles; insiders pick Obama

Does Clinton Have To Win North Carolina, Too?

02 May 2008 12:49 pm

Does Hillary Clinton have to beat Barack Obama in North Carolina in order to prick the political consciences of sueprdelegates? Since Pennsylvania, Obama has won the support of twice as many superdelegates, even as Clinton has been able to marshal data point after data point showing herself to be more electable than he. In the kaleidoscopic psychologies of uncommitted superdelegates, a skepticism about Hillary Clinton seems to weigh more heavily than her data-driven arguments. In the minds of many Clinton observers, these remaining superdelegates have been impervious to reason.

CLINTON APPROACHES North Carolina as an unquestionable underdog. The demographics are so daunting that her campaign reproaches any reporter who poses the must-win question. It is absurd, aides say, to think that Clinton can overcome Obama's built-in advantages there, and it sets unfair expectations on her when the possibility of a Clinton victory is broached. It's a fair point, but possibly irrelevant. It may well be that an upset victory is the only way to unblinker the superdelegates. It might not serve the principles of justice, but it is what it is.

CLINTON ADVISERS think their candidate is being held to an unreasonable standard. Why should she have to consistently demonstrate her capacity to win in major states? Why does the press persist in setting up new hurdles for her overcome every time she jumps over her old hurdle? The answer is may be that the Democratic nominating process is not democratic and the standards by which one measures it are not the product of some unbiased judge sitting behind a veil of ignorance. In fact, the body of judges -- not the media but the undeclared superdelegates -- have too much information about the consequences of their actions. The route to the nomination for Obama is fairly straight. He'll end the primary season just about 80 votes short of securing the nomination. It is much easier to get a third of the remaining superdelegates than it is to get two thirds of them. Further, based on a year's worth of conversations with uncommitted superdelegates, I've found that a good number of them just do not want another Clinton administration -- this is a psychic block for many of them. They are already predisposed to favor Obama. And they like him. And they have doubts about his general election viability. In their thinking, if he's going to be the nominee, he's going to need their support regardless of whether he earned their support.

CLINTON TOUGHEST task is to find a way to change the uncommitted superdelegate's expectation of who will win. That's because these superdelegates are clearly worried about the damage the process is causing to Obama's general election prospects -- not so much the prospects themselves, but the effect of the process on the prospects. So long as a majority of Democratic primary voters believe that Obama is going to be their nominee, the superdelegates will not change their expectations, and thus will probably not break en masse to Clinton anytime soon. As in previous cycles, the superdels are mostly followers; they're mostly following, again, expectations, rather than expressed preferences.

THE ONLY WAY that Clinton beats Obama in North Carolina is if Obama supporters become skittish and stay home; if Clinton ups her percentage of the black vote; if 70% of white voters choose Clinton. "We are holding steady and feel good," says Steve Hildebrand, Obama's deputy campaign manager. The Clinton campaign does not dispute this assessment, although they're certainly working to limit Obama's margin.


Even media insiders have to admit the BS media frenzy isn't working:

http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/CW_Still_Obama.html">Obama Wins White House Correspondents Attendee Staw Poll at Pre Party (video)




May 2 margin: 17


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leftofcool Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 03:33 PM
Response to Original message
1. The GOP is licking it's lips
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 03:33 PM
Response to Reply #1
2. Problably becuase they're dry. n/t
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Solomon Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 02:19 PM
Response to Reply #2
14. LOL You crack me up.
:rofl:
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thereismore Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 03:49 PM
Response to Original message
3. I actually doubt that all the early Hillary SD's are still for her. They're just being quiet. nt
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 04:54 PM
Response to Reply #3
4. Most likely. n/t
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Indenturedebtor Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 04:59 PM
Response to Reply #3
5. Yep
It's been over for a long time and the SD's know it. If your career depended on backing the right horse would you depend on math or "maybe we can steal it"? :eyes:
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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Fri May-02-08 06:57 PM
Response to Original message
6. Superdelegates since PA
More Fun with Numbers:
* There are 272 undeclared superdelegates.
* Since Pennsylvania, Obama has picked up 13 supers to Clinton's 11.
* Since Super Tuesday, Feb. 5: It's Obama +80, Clinton +13.
* Since Junior Super Tuesday, March 4: It's Obama +37, Clinton +20.

* Also note, with the Illinois state convention over the weekend, Obama is slated to pick up the three superdelegate add-ons from the state: Chicago Mayor Richard Daley; Illinois House Maj. Leader Barbara Flynn Currie, who lives in Obama's Hyde Park neighborhood, per the Chicago Sun-Times; and Cook County Board President Todd Stroger. Since these have not been officially appointed yet (they will be by Monday), the NBC News Political Unit has not added them to the count as yet.

link


Since Pennsylvania, add in the three from Illinois and it's Obama 16 to Clinton's 11





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ProSense Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:05 PM
Response to Original message
7. Obama ahead in Oregon
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karynnj Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:53 PM
Response to Original message
8. Poor Hillary
Isn't this like a kid complaining that she needs to get 100% on the remaining test in order to get an "A" just because she has 80% on the other one - and the other kid only needs a 90% because he had a 90% on the other?

Why doesn't she get that she is that she can't make up her own rules?
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
9. "Why should she have to consistently demonstrate her capacity to win"?
Well, I think that's their problem right there. Apparently they didn't read Primaries for Dummies.

Another great post - thanks!!
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nyccitizen Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:56 PM
Response to Reply #9
11. Ha ha ha... yeah, she would be ahead if it weren't for those pesky "rules". nt
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AZBlue Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 08:22 PM
Response to Reply #11
15. A belated welcome to DU!
:hi:
You live in my most favorite city in the world.
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Road Scholar Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:58 PM
Response to Reply #9
13. It's probably getting to be more and more difficult I would think. nt
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nyccitizen Donating Member (309 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:55 PM
Response to Original message
10. Why are they whining about the media? If anything, they should whine about the voters.

After all, the voters are the reason Obama has a double-digit delegate lead.
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RUMMYisFROSTED Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Sat May-03-08 01:58 PM
Response to Original message
12. "...impervious to reason..." ----Snip Of The Week!
In the kaleidoscopic psychologies of uncommitted superdelegates, a skepticism about Hillary Clinton seems to weigh more heavily than her data-driven arguments. In the minds of many Clinton observers, these remaining superdelegates have been impervious to reason.
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