Please accept my apology.

[izzybeans]

I see the local news is picking up on this supposed controversy over the War Room video. I admit to being sucked in by it. I was on my way home and heard Ed Schultz discussing this. As a native Hoosier I got myself worked up before I even heard the tapes. It took me nearly 30 listens and multiple readings of other posters with different opinions for me to flip the perceptual switch and overcome my native instincts of self-preservation. You see, like Kirk Vonnegut once pointed out so eloquently, my Hoosierness is, as he called it, a false-Karass or granfalloon. It is as divisive in the world as any other identity that defines a group (he extended this to nationality as an example); it in fact, hid the true connections I have with people on this board- on the more solid footing of intellectual curiosity and progressive morality. I argued with them, and to my own embarrassment, merely to protect my identity as a native Hoosier. I was wrong. They were right.

Furthermore, I am sorry that Clinton supporters will have to endure the same nonsense that us Obama supporters have had to endure. The surreal bashing of an acquaintance based on half truths, video editing, and (in this case) a garbled whisper will feel very disconcerting. I am embarrassed that I acted like all those others that I criticized for unashamedly running with the Wright story; all those others who could not flip the gestalt switch and see the entire picture. I do hope that one day you too can admit that you were protecting a false Karass, one you have had the privilege to deny even exists, and instead embrace our much stronger unity based on our progressive morality.

I hope you share in my shame too. If not now then soon. Our strength is in numbers.

Like the late great man from Indiana-no-place, I hope you and I can learn to look beyond the granfalloon and never again act as a reactionary.

[LisaM]

1. I'm listening to a three-hour tape delay of the Ed Schultz show.

It's quite hilarious. He's got a lot of Hoosiers worked up. I hope he has the grace to retract on Monday.

[izzybeans]

2. Yeah I don't even want to hear it again.

Should be interesting to see what he does from here on out. He was saying though that he was only hoping to see fairness on bullshit issues. I don't think he really believes that is what the man said.

[Kittycat]

3. Why should he retract? The tape wasn't doctored.

Turning up the volume doesn't change what was said.

[izzybeans]

4. I have heard it two different ways now. Both Shit and Shitting are plausible.

And he clearly says white house at the end.

[LSK]

6. except the full version of the movie posted 2 months ago says shitting

[izzybeans]

8. I originally heard shit in the original as well. It took me quite awhile to come around I'll admit.

I was trying to be delicate. :)

[LSK]

5. yes it was

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4_wKOgMNs0U&feature=related

4:40

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gEuNIUb3Ges

2 DIFFERENT VERSIONS

[Celebration]

10. these look exactly the same to me--

:shrug:

[LSK]

11. one says shit and the other says shitting

[Celebration]

18. No, I don't think so

Both of them could be interpreted both ways. They are the same. I'm just not sure which it was.

[durrrty libby]

17. It's not how it "looks" It's how it sounds

'In the actual version, Carville and George are talking about the polling results. They go down a list of states, not just Indiana. Everything that was said except for the Indiana part is cut out.

Then Kantor walks up and says, "Those people are shitting." He then says, "In the White House." It's very clear'


TSK TSK I truly hope you are not an example of ethics to any children. I fear for them

[durrrty libby]

14. I hope his lard ass gets sued for slander. He's an obnoxious clown.

How do people stomach him :shrug:

[LisaM]

19. Heck, I used to like him!

But he is too much of a front-runner for my tastes now. Whoever said that Americans love the underdog doesn't listen to Ed Schultz, and they sure as hell don't watch any sports channels.

[durrrty libby]

26. I've watched him as a so called pundit on tv a few times

He turns red, yells, interrupts

He is impossible to watch for a few minutes.

I can't imagine listening to him hour after hour...blech


And you are right about sports. I'm a Red Sox fan and am always shocked to see

that others hate them. lol..... Go Sox

[LisaM]

27. I'm a Tigers fan but I like the Red Sox too. I'll tell you a funny story.

I have some friends who are Yankees' fans. We dog-sat their dog for a few days, and when they got back I sent them an email titled: SUPER Cute Photos of Buddy!

Yes, he was wearing a Red Sox hat and shirt!

And that was the year they won their first Series since 1918.

[durrrty libby]

30. Most Yankee fans would not find that amusing

For heavens sake they were so scared of a curse, they spent $30,000

digging up an Ortiz shirt a fan buried in concrete under the new stadium

That turned out ok because it brought in $175,000 for the Jimmy Fund

Good luck this year!

[LisaM]

32. Thanks, you too

Let's hope our teams meet in the AL finals. For that matter, the NBA east finals.....

[Beausoir]

20. Same here. I've always know that Red Ed was a complete idiot but now the whole country can hear it

for themselves.

Heh.

[lumberjack_jeff]

25. I hope he goes into full "Emily Litella" mode.

"Oh, that's entirely different. Nevermind."

[DemocratSinceBirth]

28. I Don't Think His Ten Listeners Will Swing The Election Either Way

~

[yardwork]

7. Fine. Atone by kicking the threads asking about the real scandal today.

Why hasn't Hillary Clinton's campaign addressed its connections with an illegal robo-calling outfit attempting to suppress the black vote in North Carolina?

[izzybeans]

9. I have Kicked them and will.

[yardwork]

12. Thank you.

[mod mom]

15. VOTER SUPPRESSION ROBO CALLS ARE THE REAL SCANDAL!

[izzybeans]

16. Just gave you a k and r.

[dana_b]

13. well said.

"Furthermore, I am sorry that Clinton supporters will have to endure the same nonsense that us Obama supporters have had to endure. The surreal bashing of an acquaintance based on half truths, video editing, and (in this case) a garbled whisper will feel very disconcerting. I am embarrassed that I acted like all those others that I criticized for unashamedly running with the Wright story;"

yep, me too.

[JohnnyLib2]

21. K & R

[Kajsa]

22. I'm now having too many questions about the

tape, also.


it just doesn't make any sense at all.
It just doesn't come together with the rest of
the conversation.

If I did jump the gun, I apologize.

[zanne]

23. Oh please. Why apologize when you were right to begin with?

What you heard the first time was the real thing. Don't let people hound you into believing otherwise, and for God's sake, don't apologize when you weren't wrong to begin with.

[Two Americas]

29. it is quite simple

The OP values some things more than being "right" in a self-centered and self-righteous way. We could use a lot more of that.

Being personally "right" is not worth destroying relationships, solidarity and consensus over, nor is it a good substitute for results although we have become accustomed to settling for being "right" no matter how much damage is done in the process. We settle for the consolation prize in politics - being right. Our opponents, the right wingers, focus on results. That is why they are able to beat us. We act as though being "right" is sufficient - more than that, as though it were the only thing at stake.

Seeking to be right is a bad approach to politics. It leads us to the strong tendency to dismiss and purge people, to see political success as being a matter of destroying or eliminating any and all who can be portrayed as enemies in any way. It is the fatal flaw in modern liberal activism. It leads us to find each and every little thing that we may disagree with others about, then magnify and exaggerate those, and use those for bitter and destructive feuds all for the purpose of reinforcing our own person self-righteous stances and preferences.

There is a curious way in which we get this backward. On a relatively minor issue such as this, if you challenge people about bludgeoning others with it, they will defend themselves by saying "but I am right!!!!" and lecture you on compromising and being weak. When it cones to the traditional principles and ideals of the party, the same people argue for compromising on those for the sake of practicality or electability or being realistic.

The exact opposite approach would win elections easily - has in the past. So why are we so stubbornly committed to placing being right on little issues, and compromising on big issues? Because we place our own selfish need to be right ahead of the needs of the community, ahead of the fortunes of the party and the country.

[lumberjack_jeff]

24. K&R

Thank you for that.

[futureliveshere]

31. Yes, I know how you feel. I felt the same way.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5788366&mesg_id=5788366