If this writer is right, Clinton is hell bent on being the nominee even if she destroys the Party!

[Emillereid]

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/Front_Page/JE06Aa01.html


CAMPAIGN OUTSIDER
Democrats do have a nominee
By Muhammad Cohen


<snip>
But Clinton didn't say, "The American people are fighters, and they deserve a president that who will fight every bit as hard as they do." She specifically said quit, and the remark wasn't directed at voters. It was a lightly veiled threat to the party leadership, superdelegates all, that the senator from New York will continue her fight until she's their nominee.

<snip>

Belushi doctrine
The race is all about the Clintons, and they won't walk away until they're strolling back to their old house on Pennsylvania Avenue following Hillary's oath of office. Clinton's "quit" comment served notice that she subscribes to John Belushi's declaration in the film Animal House: "Nothing is over until we say it's over." Democrats might wish they saw this brand of grit and determination and tenacity during the 2000 Florida vote count, but that was about succeeding a Clinton, not a Clinton succeeding.

<snip>

But, the Clintons will fight on to the convention in August, assuring supporters that superdelegates can change their minds. (Clinton's side also contends, less convincingly, that even pledged delegates can vote as they please, even on the first ballot.) No matter what the delegate count says on the eve of the convention, the Clintons still have two extraordinarily potent weapons at their disposal: Michigan and Florida.

Clinton won unsanctioned primaries in those two states that all candidates agreed would not count. The Clintons and their campaign will mount a convention floor fight to seat those states' delegations and count their votes. When that fails, expect a full court press - lawsuits in every court they can find, at every level, for every reason. Legal precedents say political parties can set their own rules of conduct, but the Clintons are bound to find a judge - it only takes one, and Bill appointed plenty - to see things their way.

If the Democrats want to fight, lawsuits can tie up the nomination past election day, or at least long enough to ensure that any Democratic candidate not named Clinton will lose, and that Hillary will get the nomination unopposed in 2012. Rest assured, the Clintons have the chutzpah to make it happen.

<snip>

[juajen]

1. The exact same can be said of Obama.

NT

[DJ13]

3. Example?

<crickets>

[hell-bent]

27. Why would a freshman Senator be in contention for the nomination?

Is there something different about him over Senators Feingold or say Webb from Virginia?

[PoliticalAmazon]

31. You did't answer the question. How is Obama hell-bent to win, willing to sacrifice the party? n/t

[roguevalley]

38. why wouldn't he? Are you now saying that the entire vastness of the

country that freely voted for him are assholes or something? God, there is nothing a hillary supporter won't say to denigrate the will of the American electorate. Its called winning and the people are making it happen. Democracy. Look it up.

[habitual]

5. mmmm hmmm

and how is that so, other than you just saying it is?

[BlooInBloo]

6. Just making shit up as you go. It's funniest because you don't even bother to deny it about Clinton

rather, your best is to say "Obama is just as bad" - which is a complete lie, naturally.

[CountAllVotes]

7. oh really?

What exactly has Sen. Obama done to rein the destruction of the Democratic Party?

CLINTON = GUILTY AS CHARGED!!! :grr:

:dem:

[bowens43]

11. Really? Obama is threatening to cheat if he can't win honestly?

I haven't seen that. Please provide details.

[melody]

18. No, because he's the frontrunner -- he will win -- Hillary can't

The ONE reason she is staying in is to destroy our party.

[YDogg]

29. O RLY?

[K Gardner]

32. Please provide a link where Obama was EVER behind or threatened the party. Thanks.

[habitual]

2. that article has a strange charicature of Obama in the article:

[Triana]

4. JUST EXACTLY why these scum will never get my vote. n/t

[flpoljunkie]

8. It would be problematic for any politician to continue their quixotic quest if the money dried up.

You know, money, "the mother's milk of politics." Would the Clintons self-fund her campaign. I would tend to doubt it, but they do strongly feel that "It's her turn."

[gateley]

10. When does April's campaign finance report come out? Thanks. nt

[flpoljunkie]

26. They have been due on he 20th of the following month, so that would be May 20th.

[gateley]

9. "Unsanctioned Primaries". 'Nuf said. nt

[roguevalley]

39. ''unsanctioned primaries.' really?

[NJmaverick]

12. It's pretty clear that is what her intentions are

[oasis]

13. Advice to Democrats: Put your focus on the SCOTUS.(eom)

[AllentownJake]

15. Yeah

You can say that all you want...this happens the party is going to learn a very important lesson about what happens when you change rules.

[oasis]

17. Okay, I will say it again. "Put your focus on the SCOTUS".

:bounce:

[RainDog]

21. this is the same "fear factor" that the republicans use with their base

and you what? it's not working for this democrat in this case.

if Hillary pulls a Florida 2000 on the democratic party, the party will no longer exist in the way it has up until this time. That will be her legacy- the destruction of the democratic party.

If she and her supporters give a damn about the supreme court, she should concede because she can only win now by going against the will of the democratic majority. anytime any of her supporters wants to dangle this carrot, they should go ahead and say to themselves.. yes, if we really cared about the SCOTUS, we wouldn't kill the party.

[oasis]

22. "Will of the Democratic majority". Yes, that's important. So let's see

what a majority looks like when Florida and Michigan voters are added.

[RainDog]

23. she agreed to the rules

Florida and Michigan KNEW what they were doing BEFORE they held their primaries. THEY chose to make their state votes irrelevant. If you want FL and MI to count, fine. Hold primaries in both states and let the state committees pay for them. Since Obama wasn't even on the ballot in MI, it is hardly fair to reward Hillary for trying to change the rules in the middle of the process.

In fact, such actions reek of desperation.

If you have ANY doubt that this process was fully vetted before the fact, please refer to this post for factual information. Facts. They're just not for Hillary anymore.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5823142&mesg_id=5823638

[oasis]

25. The Democratic voters in those two states didn't agree to anything. Their

votes are just as important to them.

Dean botched up the works. He needs to go back into medicine.(But not before taking out a ton of malpractice insurance).

[RainDog]

28. just a note

the state committees screwed the pooch. if your primary vote didn't count, now you know how millions of others have felt who have voted in primaries after the nominee has been chosen. in those cases, it happened via the normal nominating process.

Dean was not the one who set the "rebuke" for those two states because they refused to adhere to party rules for party unity. Dean is not at fault here.

As far as your attempt to try to insult Dean about any use of medicines... really now. How low do you want to go? How much of the sewer are you willing to swallow to get Clinton in? Would you also like to insult people who have... oh, I dunno... aids? how about people with physical disabilities? let's see, maybe you have something choice to say about people who aren't white? any words for Jews?

You don't need to reply because I'm going to exercise my option to ignore rather than engage in worthless arguments. If you still feel the need to do so for yourself, however - knock yourself out.

[oasis]

46. Just an open note. It seems you have put reality on "ignore" as well. (eom)

[Heathen57]

37. It was the Dem LEADERS in those two states

that agreed with the plan. In FL only one Dem voted against the date change. If the voters want to be pissed, it is the state leaders they should direct their anger.

And remember, Clinton agreed to the rules before she needed the votes.

[roguevalley]

43. no he didn't. THEY did. Dean is enforcing the rules that both states

and the candidates agreed to. God, blame the offenders and leave Dean alone.

[Turn CO Blue]

36. Not if you add ALL the voters from the caucus states.

Ever notice how the Clinton supporters are perfectly fine with switching over to counting the popular votes instead of delegates ...but only if they get to cull out ALL the votes from caucus states like COLORADO????

screwy math. You want to count ALL the votes, except for "these 4-7 caucus states".

It's bullshit. And I'm calling bullshit on it.

[roguevalley]

42. since Obama followed the rules and wasn't on the ballots, giving

the delegates to ANYONE is bullshit. I am SICK of them fucking things around in violation of the rules and expecting to get their way anyway. I want to take a board to their asses.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

47. The rules didn't require the candidates remove their names...

They just agreed to not campaign in those states. Obama remained on the ballot in FL and lost to Hillary. HE only removed his name from the Michigan ballot when the numbers told him he would lose there.

I'm not saying all the delegates, from those states, should be awarded to HRC ... just that they need to find a way to satisfy the voters in those states who didn't create this problem and deserve to have a voice in this primary.

[TheDoorbellRang]

30. You know, that was my mantra for a long time

But if the DNC caves and puts her in over the pledged delegate count which DOES represent the will of the people, then I will not vote for her this fall. FYI I will not vote for McCain, either.

Enough.

[roguevalley]

40. If shillary pulls a fast one and steals this election, then fuck it all. the

country is over. who needs a scotus when the election gets taken away from the real winner?

[IDemo]

14. "Hillary will get the nomination unopposed in 2012. "

In her dreams. Not gonna happen. Never.

[karynnj]

19. I agree - I think we can all list people more likely

including some like Warner and Bayh who deferred running for Clinton. She will likely be starting with lower approval ratings for both Bill and her then she had this time. In that scenario, McCain will be President and war will still be an issue - Webb, Clark, Gore or Kerry all will be seen as having the CIC credentials she lacks. Edwards or Dean might expand their activist organizations - poverty (I don't know the name) and DFA. I also suspect that any list now may miss the likely winner as he or she may have too low a profile now.

If Clinton couldn't win with a superTuesday designed just for her, the media saying inevitable and flawless with regularity and most of the Democratic government in exile behind her - what could make her think she would be better in 4 years.

[roguevalley]

44. Like she thinks we won't remember what she did? She is one fucked

up lady.

[leftynyc]

16. Muhammad Cohen - now that's a great name

As to the subject matter, it doesn't appear Mr. Cohen has any closer a relationship to Hillary Clinton than anyone on this board does which makes his opinion as useless as anyone elses.

[graycem]

20. She may very well get the nomination..

it will be her last victory as a serious politician if she gets it in this way. Surely people who can see the writing on the wall will tell her that you don't recover from political suicide.

[roguevalley]

45. I would like to see New York kick her ass out.

[Kokonoe]

24. Bill Clinton never won the presidency outside of a three way race,

and did it with less than 50% of the vote.

Obama may be three moves ahead, but hillary is changing the rules to fit Clinton's end game.
So her goal posts may not be moving like we thought.

[Prophet 451]

33. I hope not

QAs I understand the details of the disputed primaries, Florida can be seated more-or-less "as-is" without too much fuss. However, Obama's name wasn't on the ballot in Michigan (nor was anyone else except Hillary) which would make inserting those delegates unfair, immoral and, according to at least one court, illegal. Since Hillary also signed off on the ruling that those primaries would not count, it would appear to be (and would be) rewarding the Clinton campaign simply for whining. The obvious solution is a re-vote in Michigan but the Clinton campaign has said they will not accept any solution which reduces the number of delegates they would get i.e. she has ruled out a re-vote and it is her, not Obama, who is disenfranchising Michigan voters by refusing to allow the only fair solution.

If the Clinton campaign can somehow pull this off, I would expect to see three things:
1) A full-blown riot on the convention floor.
2) McCain strolling into the presidency after an electoral bloodbath.
3) A scramble to hold the first primaries (since there would publically be no punishment for violating the rules) that would see primaries held before the inauguration was finished.

You can possibly add:
4) A full-blown split in teh Democratic party.

[Mme. Defarge]

34. Here is my tinfoil hat theory ...

The "establishment" will not, cannot, permit Obama to be the nominee. Hillary was "inevitable" because she was the establishment's other candidate. Their intent all along has been to stack the deck. As much as Hillary and Bill may want the presidency, from the establishment's perspective, Hillary will have successfully performed her role by simply becoming the nominee.

The advantage, in this case, is that if Clinton and McCain are the candidates running in the GE, election fraud will not be necessary, since it won't matter who wins. Think about it -- both campaigns'top leaders have ties to the same electronic voting machine company.

BUT, if the Obama revolution prevails and he becomes the Democratic nominee, then our corporate overlords are going to have to resort to vote flipping and vote suppression and every imaginable kind of election fraud to prevent the candidate who doesn't owe them anything from rendering them powerless.

This is why I feel that, in the event that Hillary and Bill are able to strong-arm their way to the nomination, I can write in Obama with a clear conscience.

:tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat: :tinfoilhat:

[caligirl]

35. and the money for all this? the clinton libary fund, or c. foundation fund?

[invictus]

41. K & R