If you hate Hillary... it's probably for all the wrong reasons

[BenDavid]

You might hate her for refusing to quit the fight.
You might hate her for playing too hard to win.
You might hate her for bringing a gun to a knife-fight.
You might hate her for because she ain't no bandleader.
You might hate her for not being dainty enough while she's
chopping and cutting her opponent off at the knees.

...but isn't that exactly what we asked her to do? The worst that could happen is she'd win and take the White House in November.
Odd that some people get angry when they finally get exactly what they want. For eight years, we've been asking for a fighter instead of a lame, surrender-early quitter.

May I ask a question? If our choices are doing the right thing and losing with Obama because fair is fair OR doing the wrong thing and winning with Hillary, would not this be what the super-delegates are for?

[KansasVoter]

1. When she mocked me she lost me forever!

[The_Casual_Observer]

2. good for you

[Boz]

15. I dont hate her, I distrust her because shes demonstrated and discussed her views

and she represents those positions closer to republican planks then democrat.

[The_Casual_Observer]

18. sure thing

[Boz]

23. Take a look

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5825263&mesg_id=5825263

[ikojo]

35. DING!!! DING!!! DING!!

The truth shall set you free...


Goldwater girl
Former board member of Wal Mart
Supporter of NAFTA

[juajen]

3. K & R

[scheming daemons]

4. And YOU BenDavid, hate Obama because you perceive him as being not pro-Jewish enough.....

...tell the truth.

[Levgreee]

5. You'd hate Obama if he did those things to Hillary

[maddiejoan]

21. Can you show me on this doll exactly where?

[ecstatic]

6. I don't hate her, but she lies too much for my taste

and she has no problem insulting the intelligence of voters. I take offense to that.

[nolabels]

53. That's her base you're talking about

She panders and prays on those lazy people who collect their news from M$M or those who feel too weak and afraid to fight an entrenched establishment

It's probably not even that she lies so much but more of process of her being on the receiving end of herd of stock that has been baffled and bamboozled into believing so many things that just are not true. That idea of a free lunch and free gas come to mind for me, the idea that legislatures just need to enact laws and cut checks that will make us all rich. The ignorant masses who do not suspect a system that is pointed and turned on to working on them. They unknowingly, their own worst enemy

[Arugula Latte]

7. I can't stand her because she voted for the war; aligned herself with McCain;

threatened to obliterate Iraq; had her surrogates play the race card; has run a nasty, pandering, below-the-belt campaign; whines whenever she doesn't get her way; keeps trying to change the rules and designate which states and voters "count" and which ones don't; has acted like an arrogant queen who is entitled to the nomination and how dare the little people stand in the way ... and on and on ...

Also, I don't want her as our nominee because she will sink us in the fall.

[PoliticalAmazon]

11. Those are all great reasons. What Oregonian said. Add that to my list. n/t

[Boz]

28. More reasons

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5825263&mesg_id=5825263

[cliffordu]

8. I just don't like pantsuited panderbears, or people who lie about

sniper fire...

[gateley]

9. No, I hate her for all the right reasons. Seriously. nt

[PoliticalAmazon]

10. Don't presume to tell me why I hate Hillary Clinton, and then put up a bunch of horseshit...

I hate her because she earned it.

I hate her because she uses worse tactics than Bush/Rove/Atwater.

I hate her because she has been malicious and vicious when there was no reason to. She tried to take advantage of Obama's taking the high road, throwing the lowest kind of pig-slop at him, counting on the fact that he would not return in kind.

I hate her because she blows rightwing media filth to try to get her nose closer to the anuses of the Republican voters who put her, and us, through hell for 8 years, and who will not vote for her anyway, no matter how often she blows O'Reilly.

I hate her because she has made women weak by her fake blubbering to get sympathy and constantly whining about how she is such a victim of sexism, ageism, whatevderism.

I hate her because she's made it harder for women in the future to make a successful run for president.

I hate her because she made a profit, and built her power base, by sending American jobs to India, impoverishing American workers in the process.

I hate her because she is a lying hypocrite, promising to bring jobs back to America and create new jobs for America, at the same time she is promising her India outsourcing corporate benefactors that outsourcing will continue and not to worry about the American worker backlash.

I could go on and on, but I think you get the drift.

So don't EVEN pull that happy horseshit, trying to make poor widdle Hiwwary the widdle victim again. You just amp up the hate for her when you do.

[Skidmore]

60. Thank you for saying it all so well.

I will not vote for that woman in this lifetime or the next.

[graycem]

12. You want

super delegates to give her the nomination even though she's unable to beat him, on the basis that she says he's unelectable. Pardon me if I think her opinion of his electability is a LITTLE biased. :)

[Webster Green]

13. Fail!

None of those reasons is why I hate her.

Nice try. :smoke:

[Blue-Jay]

14. You probably hate Obama for all the right reasons.

Maybe you could list a few.

[datopbanana]

16. You might hate her for refusing to work with others/compromise for health care in the 90s

ya.

[Quixote1818]

17. You just discribed George Bush and Joe Lieberman's Baby

[judasdisney]

42. I get the impression BenDavid is an unequivocal Lieberman fan, whatever the cost

[parasim]

19. Winning the Rove way is f'in stupid.

No, we need change in this country. Politics played as it always has been is getting this country nowhere.

I am so tired of win at all costs, when the country is continuing to spiral out of control.

by the way, I don't hate Hillary. I hate what this country has become because of the corporate enablers that have run it. and I hate the politics that keeps them in power.

Sure maybe Obama will end up being the same old same old, but perhaps he won't be. and that's a big perhaps. It's pretty certain what will happen if either McCain or Clinton get in there.

I will support Clinton if she is the nominee, because a Democrat is better than a Republican in the White House.

[ikojo]

36. Even a DINO Dem like Hillary?

This support a D at all costs is what has moved the Democratic party further and further to the right and closer to being the Republicans. It is why Hillary feels she does not need to answer to the base. Rather than talk of bolting the party (as the Republican base does when they don't get their way, the Dem base says a D (even a pro corporate anti worker D) is better than any Republican). I am not sure what I will do in November if Hillary manages to finagle the nomination. I just don't know.

IF she manages to finagle the nomination, I do not think she is electable. She has EXTREMELY high negatives among the general electorate. The right wing loathes her more than many people on this board. They will bring out all of the heavy artillery to defeat her, even though McCain is not their ideal candidate, he is not Hillary. For them it will be ABH, anyone but Hillary.

Heck my extreme right-wing fundamentalist sister voted for Obama in the Illinois primary because she cannot stand Hillary! Come November if HRC is the nominee, my sister will cast a vote for McCain.

Once again the DLC is possibly handing the Democrats defeat in the jaws of victory, just like they did in 1994, 1996, 1998, 2000, 2002, 2004. The DLC (Republican lite) way is the way of the past. Obama is the future, even if he's a tad compromised because of his continued support for funding the war.

[cottonseed]

20. The SDs are for Obama.

What's happened the last few days, since Feb 5th, and what's going to happen after tomorrow will bear that out. I think it's great that she's a fighter and all. It is to some degree a very desirable trait. Unfortunately, she's just not going to win this thing. The Super Delegates are her play, and they're all running away from her.

[ikojo]

39. She's a fighter all right but it's for corporate interests

and not the interests of working people. How hard did she fight while serving on Wal Mart's board? Sam Walton didn't call her a great lawyer because she was defending Wal Mart workers, of that you can rest assured!!!


She wasn't fighting for poor people when she and her husband championed and passed welfare reform for people, but not welfare reform for dependent corporations.

Hillary is hardly the champion of the working class (a class of folks she knows nothing about)

http://www.businessweek.com/bwdaily/dnflash/content/feb2008/db20080227_145224.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_top+story

Is Hillary Clinton Good for Business?
Trailing Obama, Clinton is pumping up the populist rhetoric in Ohio and Texas. But as her record and contributions show, she's no enemy of Corporate America

snip

Follow the Money

But while Clinton's talk is tough—on opposing tax cuts for the wealthy, the influence of special interests like health insurance companies, and Big Oil—her record and support base indicate she's hardly an enemy of American business interests. Some of the biggest names on Wall Street—including John Mack, Chief Executive Officer of Morgan Stanley (MS) and Steve Rattner, managing principal of the Quadrangle Group—have publicly endorsed Clinton. She has more maxed-out, executive-level donors than either Obama or Senator John McCain (R-Ariz.) and has pulled in $3.9 million from donors associated with the health-care industry, more than any other candidate. Donors affiliated with Goldman Sachs (GS) are her top contributors.

snip

Wall Street is fairly comfortable with Clinton. " has been a New York senator for seven years, and New York is the financial capital of the U.S. and the world," says Roger Altman, senior Clinton economic adviser and co-founder of Evercore Partners (EVR), an investment and advisory company in New York. "CEOs and other business leaders have had the chance to work with her very close quarters. If you ask leaders of the financial community if there's anything to be afraid of, 80% or more would say no."

Indeed, some industries would gain considerably if Clinton were elected. Her "Economic Blueprint" calls for the creation of a $50 billion Strategic Energy Fund to support alternative energy industries. "With her record and proposals, there is great visibility in terms of what you get with Hillary Clinton," says Bryan Sherbacow, 39, chief operating officer of Charleston (S.C.)-based Ethanex Energy, an ethanol producer. "With George Bush a lot of people didn't know what they were voting for, and aren't willing to take that chance again." Sherbacow and his wife have maxed out on donations to Clinton, contributing $2,300 each for the primaries.

[Terran]

22. I'm disgusted by her, but I don't hate her.

You might hate her for not being dainty enough while she's
chopping and cutting her opponent off at the knees.

You don't do that to a fellow Democrat during a primary. Fuck her.

[mckeown1128]

24. Hmmm... interesting... I think that is what the supreme court....

justices... probably tell themselves every night before bed in regards to Bush Vs. Gore... "they could have done the right thing or they could do the wrong thing and have their party win the whitehouse...


now I get it... It's only wrong if it's the other side stealing the election. Screw the popular vote and delegate count... we don't need democracy we just need to win the GE. :eyes:

[NanceGreggs]

25. No, it's like this ...

No one hates her for refusing to quit the fight, but for fighting dirty.

No one hates her for playing 'too hard to win', but for trying to change the rules of the game in order to 'win'.

Her 'daintiness' was never the issue - the fact that she was 'cutting her opponent off at the knees' is. Her 'opponent' is a fellow Democrat, and someone she knew was, in all probability, going to be our party's nominee.

A primary is a means to prove to the voters your qualifications for the office - not an arena in which to 'throw' the kitchen sink.

She could have used her campaign as an opportunity to show us how tough an opponent she would be for McCain - but instead she told us how much better qualified he was for POTUS than her fellow Democrat.

"Isn't this exactly what we asked her to do?" No, not by a long-shot.

"If our choices are doing the right thing and losing with Obama because fair is fair, OR doing the wrong thing and winning with Hillary, would not this be what the super-delegates are for?"

You might have noticed that the SuperDelegates are now endorsing Obama in larger numbers than are endorsing Hillary. The SD lead she started this race with has all but evaporated. So Obama's nomination will be fair and, according to the SDs, the right thing to do in order to win the GE.

Which begs the question as to what the next option will be that you propose. Maybe having the Supreme Court decide to install Hillary?

[judasdisney]

43. Nance, don't dance with the passive-aggressive. It only encourages them.

You're answering the questions of a passive-aggressive manipulator who knows exactly what the answers to his own questions are. It's exactly parallel to legitimizing Neocon complaints about transparency or voter fraud or anything else they're willing to accuse with but don't give a rat's ass about.

[NorthCarolina]

63. Well said NanceGreggs

eom

[JAbuchan08]

26. "...but isn't that exactly what we asked her to do? "

Ummm... no... maybe you did... I didn't.

"For eight years, we've been asking for a fighter instead of a lame, surrender-early quitter."

Hillary is like a hockey team that can fight, but isn't able to score goals. She fights on the wrong issues and ultimately achieves the opposite of what she should be.

Witness IWR, Kyle Leiberman etc.

What good does a fighter do us if half the time she's fighting for the Republicans?

[Neshanic]

27. They wanted lame, they got lame, when he quits early after McCain wins

then they may finally get it.

Good post.

[Hippo_Tron]

29. Hillary isn't more electable than Obama, it's an absurd argument

Hillary Clinton is just as easy to paint as an out of touch liberal as Obama is. "Reagan Democrats" aren't going to be flocking back to her. There are certain politicians like Bill Clinton and Jim Webb that can actually connect with SOME of these voters, enough to push them over the top in certain red states. Hillary Clinton is not one of those politicians.

[Umbram]

30. The word hate gets tossed around here too much.

People that find themselves 'hating' need hobbies other than GD: P

[Usrename]

31. Most people don't like her, it's true. The numbers are growing.

I don't like her at all, but it's mainly because of her fascist ideology. Had enough of that. We need a change.

[ccharles000]

32. I love her.

[TheDonkey]

33. I do not like her because she is a lying, pandering, mean-spirited, calculating pest

[PseudoIntellect]

34. The worst thing that could happen is clearly not that she'd win and take the White House.

Otherwise, the whole party would be happy right now.

They're not, because Hillary is lowering Obama's GE chances though he is clearly the front-runner.

"If our choices are doing the right thing and losing with Obama because fair is fair OR doing the wrong thing and winning with Hillary, would not this be what the super-delegates are for?"

Yes, if only. "If only" is the campaign slogan these days? We have two great candidates who can both win the GE.

[cali]

37. she's a loser and a sucky fighter.

she's constantly damaging herself worse than her opponent. she should have won in a walk. and I don't hate her.

[barack the house]

38. We ask that for a fight with the Republicans not to take it to this extent with our own...

Hillary has not once to my recollection addressed McCain Obama has.The ludicoursness of taking it this far with our own she is offending all those who need to vote for her.

[hokies4ever]

40. How does it feel knowing that Hillary has written a concession speech

just in case she has to give it later today? :rofl:

[hokies4ever]

41. Does Hillary love black people as much as you do?

:rofl:

[Perry Logan]

44. The people who hate Hillary hate her because of their own false accusations against her. Weird.

[bowens43]

46. NO, she has earned the hate

[bowens43]

45. No

I hate her because shes a dishonest, lying, self serving, back stabbing, rovian, power hungry sociopath who will do anything or say anything to get the power that she believes is rightfully hers. In addition to that I hate her for the abuses of power she committed and attempted to commit while her husband was president.

BTW, Obama has much better chance of beating McCain then Hillary does. The republicans have been preparing for hillary fr years. They are salivating over the idea of a hillary candidacy. hillary will never be president . get used to it. she is despised.

[gbrenna]

47. I don't hate Sen. Clinton

However, I don't like her because she has no chance to win the nomination and is costing Sen. Obama money and time which would be better spent fighting McCain. I think Sen. Clinton is hurting the Democratic Party and helping the Republicans.

[yourguide]

48. No, I hate her because she plays dirty...

against a fellow team mate. Oh and then there is that pesky Iraq vote she hasnt apologized for.

Oh yeah, then there's that obliterate Iran garbage.

I'd respect her if she were truly fighting for anyone OTHER than herself.

[HughBeaumont]

49. Wrong as usual. But thanks for playing.

Anyone wants to know why I had an immense problem with her as the nominee from "in it to win it", just go to these links. That should be all you need.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_topic&forum=132&topic_id=5313426

http://journals.democraticunderground.com/HughBeaumont/32

http://www.atimes.com/atimes/South_Asia/GC01Df03.html
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/538674.cms
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/articleshow/593175.cms

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhLBSLLIhUs
Hillary pushes for more h1-b visas and outsourcing

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cLNOSGM2jK4
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 1)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgdrh2Bc95M
Hillary Clinton's hypocrisy (part 2)

[zulchzulu]

50. It's not hate...it's pity...and it's seeing someone who cares more about herself than her party

Bringing a gun to a knife-fight? She's chopping and cutting her opponent off at the knees?

SHE LOST.

[livetohike]

51. I don't hate her or her husband but

I want them to go away. I'm tired of looking at and hearing both of them. They had their place in history, but it's time for someone new.

As to your last question. We will not lose with Obama. The majority of people in this country are sick of politics as usual.

[Orsino]

52. If she'd been doing what I expected of her...

...I'd be supporting her joyously now, rather than leaning the other way.

I would have loved to have seen her fight even half so hard for anything besides the nomination.

[BenDavid]

54. I appreciate all the pro and con replies, but what about the

question I posed. Do you lose with obama or win with hrc? Simple as that.

[scheming daemons]

58. False question.... It's lose with HRC or win with Obama.... Simple as that.

[newmajority]

64. Neither.

We win with Obama.

[LSK]

55. how about hating her for NEVER apologizing for IWR and taking Lobbyist money???

Want to refute that somehow??? Oh and her Iran hawkish stance would be a 3rd reason.

[gal]

56. I'd rather lose honorably.

I have values and expect the people I vote for to have some as well.

[Warren DeMontague]

57. I don't "hate" Hillary. But I don't want her to be the nominee for both moral AND political reasons.

I think Obama will be the stronger candidate. Far and away; that's why the media is trying so hard to torpedo him with bullshit about reverends and flag pins.

And he's BEATING your plucky, scrappy, sink-throwing, kneecap-breaking alley fighter. He's WINNING.


Hillary started to lose me when she got to the senate and voted for the IWR. That has nothing to do with her being "scrappy" and everything to do with her MAKING A SERIOUSLY ERRONEOUS CALL THAT BRINGS HER JUDGMENT INTO QUESTION.

[blm]

59. I hate her because she's a CLOSED GOVERNMENT DEMOCRAT who protects BushInc and

his powerful elite cronies.

She would continue the pretection of their secrecy and privilege into the next decade just as Bill did throughout the 90s.

THAT is what YOU support - closed government. I never will and will fight you every day.

[rucky]

61. Call me sexist, but...

I like the thought of a woman president precisely because I hate all the bravado that leaders in America tend to put on. I was hoping more women in power would soften our image a bit and prove that we don't have to act like cavemen to get the job done.

[NorthCarolina]

62. None of those points touch on why I wouldn't vote for Hillary

for me they're

I will not vote for a candidate that is a DLC member
I will not vote for a candidate that is an admitted liar (Bosnia incident)
I will not vote for a candidate named Clinton or Bush because I am against "family dynasties" as if we were a monarchy
I will not vote for a candidate that praises a Republican candidate as more qualified than your Democratic opponent
I will not vote for a candidate that resorts to pandering for votes

So for me, getting Hillary would be exactly getting everything I don't want in a President. For 8 years we have been asking for a fighter, but it only works when they fight for the right things.

I also think that stating emphatically that Obama will lose the GE as if you have some super knowledge that this is a foregone conclusion is suspect and not a likely statement from a true Democrat.

Have a nice day! :hi:

[WA98296]

65. Reasons she's a DINO: War Votes, NAFTA, Telecommunications Act, Corporate & lobbyist friendly