How many negative impressions of Obama do our fellow Democrats have?

[DMorgan]

Let's get this all out in the open so that we can deal with it.

Please be civil, and mature, and put it out there in a list. Please try to remember how you came to believe what you believe.

Oh, and I think we can leave Obama's Islam faith, Christian church, and former Pastor out of this, since there have been seventy million posts about that topic already.

So, lets go for the real beef ! What negative impressions (misconceptions or otherwise) are there out in Democratic voter land?

To start the list, here's two or three I read on posts right here on the DU...paraphrasing what I remember seeing here.

1) Obama has no plan for gasoline ( or energy)

2)Obama will NOT work for equal rights for all gay/lesbian/transgendered people

3)Obama CANNOT win in a Southern state

Discuss? Add more? Please be civil.

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. What plan does Clinton have for gasoline?

If you say Gas Tax Holiday, you lose.

[uponit7771]

6. 15 Billion for alternate energy which I think he'll get from the 18 billion in tax breaks we give...

..Big Oil

[Zodiak]

69. illogical

Tax breaks reduce revenue, not generate it to fund another project.

Only a Republican would think otherwise

[Cant trust em]

2. I hope you get the answers you're looking for.

Getting GDP to be civil is like asking my 86 year old grandfather to not lift anything heavy. It's worth a shot, but probably not going to happen.

[LisaM]

3. In the faith forum, when asked about abortion, his response was

that we need to focus on abstinence education. He may have written otherwise, but that was his response (you can Google it, I've already done so twice).

He has not promised to scrap NCLB.

He believes in merit raises for teachers.

He thinks that we should leave the door open for tax dollars to go to charter schools.

[Cant trust em]

5. Clinton doesn't want to scrap NCLB either

From her website section titled "supporting parents and caring for children"

Reforming the No Child Left Behind Act. This law represented a promise -- more resources for schools in exchange for more accountability -- and that promise has not been kept.

[LisaM]

20. In her latest round of speeches

She has said she wants to scrap NCLB.

However, the questions that were asked were regarding Obama's positions, not anyone else's.

[Cant trust em]

30. Fair enough. But she should change her website.

Something is conflicting.

[LisaM]

56. As it is with Obama and his abstinence comments

I don't know, color me cynical, but at this point, I trust women a little more with the abortion issue than men. Geesh, people won't even use the WORD.

[Cant trust em]

59. That's totally fair. Every time abortion comes up in a conversation I'm in

I'll give my quick opinion and then throw in the caveat "but I'm a man, so take my opinion with a grain of salt." I think Obama said something similar to that. Something like "I haven't looked too deeply into the issue."

[Cant trust em]

11. on abstinence education...

He says that contraception is important and that treatment is important. This was right after mentioning abstinence education. In his words "I think we should have a comprehensive approach."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6o-jNECOtKQ

Start watching from the 5:08 mark.

Thanks.

[niyad]

19. and there was his comment about choice--that women should "prayerfully" make the

decision to abort.

and jermey scahill's column about his view of the mercs in iraq.

[LisaM]

23. I know that he is not insisting that we have abstinence ONLY

I watched the whole weird forum (which, frankly, I thought was pandering by BOTH candidates). However, he clearly said we should focus on abstinence education first, and I disagree with that.

[Cant trust em]

33. I'll certainly agree with that. The "compassion forum" please.

How about a poverty forum? Or a peace forum?

[Goodnevil]

4. Afghanistan

He's in favor of turning up the heat on that war. I support him but not that.

[DMorgan]

9. So you're comfortable with the way things are being managed by Bush in

That war?

You are comfortable with the resurgence of the Taliban?

Or are you adding to my list of misconceptions? I'm not clear what you mean.

[Zodiak]

72. Some of us are just against war

But then again, if one supports Hillary, war with Iraq and Iran must not bother them so much.

I am uncomfortable with going into Pakistan and Afghanistan harder if it turns out that we do not capture Bin Laden and extract ourselves quickly. I want Bin Laden captured (if he's alive) because I want "the excuse" to take our civil liberties away one at a time to be moot.

But I am not for saber rattling and war with Iran, and I am really not for the IRaq war to continue one more stinking minute.

[BlooInBloo]

7. Amazing that one of the biggest gay blogs on the internet supports Obama.

And the biggest gay paper too.

Wow - all those gay folks must be fucking STUPID, huh?

http://www.americablog.com/2008/05/lead-gay-paper-unendorses-hillary.html

:rofl:

[Maven]

15. That's a stretch. The Blade endorsed Hillary.

They're telling their readers to support Obama by default, because of what McCain would do to the Supreme Court. They're opposing McCain, not praising Obama. I agree with their opinion, but it's far from an endorsement of Obama.

[BlooInBloo]

18. Ah. So they're throwing gay folks - i.e. themselves - under the bus?

Since Obama is - supposedly - just SOOOOO bad for gay folks, after all.

The dissonance is deafening.

[Maven]

25. Nope. I do think Obama would appoint more liberal justices

who would incidentally decide cases that affect GLBT people more favorably. Absolutely.

I don't think he'll do much of anything to help us (or really oppose those who try to hurt us). But for the sake of the Court, he must defeat McCain.

[BlooInBloo]

36. Why exactly do you think he would passively allow harms to gay folks?

At least ones within his control?

Amazing that the big blogs run by gay folks like America Blog, Pam's House Blend, and others would allow themselves to be played for such dupes!


EDIT: Dratted typos.

[Maven]

46. Because I think he would be cowed by (or would defer to) religious groups

and would not oppose such groups (or putatively secular groups like the AFA or CWA) as it would entail political risk. To be totally fair, I never had any strong expectation that Clinton would do so either. But of the two of them, Obama is the one who has been most comfortable blending religion with his politics, and who has made appealing to religious, socially conservative voters so central to his campaign (his proposal to "reconcile" faith and politics, the Faith Forum with Caldwell, the SC gospel tour, etc.). It's just my feeling on the matter.

John Aravosis can do and say what he wants. We'll be voting the same way, but he doesn't do my thinking for me just because we're both gay nor does he represent the entire GLBT community just because he has a blog. I don't know what Pam's House Blend's "official" editorial policy is with regard to Clinton vs. Obama (it's moot now anyway), but I do know that Pam Spalding was VERY critical of Obama during McClurkin and Caldwell and reported vigorously on both.

Like I said, it's all moot because the Court is enough motivation to vote for Obama (against McCain) regardless.

[BlooInBloo]

50. Of course, I never said, suggested, or implied that Aravosis did or should do...

your thinking for you.

It's just an amazing thing that this Obama-AFA silent conspiracy has been ignored by them all this time.

[Maven]

53. Well, I hope you're right to be optimistic and I'm wrong to be pessimistic.

I would be thrilled to be proven wrong. :)

[DMorgan]

21. I think 95% of the GLBT community will support Obama over McCain .... so

I really don't see a problem here. Maybe I am wrong. Better to have 95% support than 5% !

I think 90+% of African Americans, Hispanics, and other racial minorities will support Obama over McCain, too, if Hillary will help a little here with Hispanics.

That leaves Jewish folks, whom, as a minority, are very important to a Dem victory in November, too... Hillary could help him there, too!

[Maven]

27. Sure, we'll do what we always do.

Donate money, come out to vote Democratic in unparalleled numbers percentage-wise, and then wait to be ignored and/or shit on.

Rinse and repeat.

[Phillycat]

28. Hey, don't think you have the market cornered.

As a non-gay Democrat, I have basically the same experience. :D

[Maven]

35. LOL!

Word. :toast:

[Cant trust em]

38. I have a friend who is a gay, black, anti-war democrat

He is like the most thrown under the bus guy I know. But he is a pro-Israel Jew, so I guess he does get pandered to a little bit.

[rusty quoin]

8. He's not a good bowler.

[DMorgan]

10. Well, I think Obama, HIMSELF, dealt directly with that, and admits it! LOL eom

[Texas Hill Country]

12. he has problems with

1. rezko - this will be brought up

2. Wright - not his racist stuff, his GD america, his AIDS stuff, etc

3. Ties to terrorists - factual or not, tentative or not, there can be ties made to Ayers, Hamas, Auchi, Khalafi, etc

4. His cousin that he campaigned for in Kenya that promised to institute sharia law

5. his militant muslim brother

6. flag pins, hand over the heart, and "proud of america"

and that is just the bullshit drama that is going to resonate bigtime with much of middle america... i wish it didnt, but i think it will. It is far to easy to paint him as unpatriotic and anti-american.

then there are the real issues

1. looses reagan democrats -

2. he even puts Massachussets into play according to the polls... and while i realize alot of that is primary bluster... that is a VERY friggin scary thing

3. say goodbye to Florida

4. he has no gas or short term energy plan

5. he is bad on GLBT issues

6. he has issues with women

7. he has issue with older whites

8. he has a strong base in AA's, but a big percentage is the youth vote and they are unreliable.

9. according to new Rass polls, people trust McCain more than Obama on the 5 key issues. Econ, War, HC, Education, Energy

and on and on and on

[BlooInBloo]

14. Phew. With all of that, it's simply AMAZING that Clinton The Inevitable....

With all of the machine and money at the start, all of press and all of the coverage, will LOSE.

It's amazing that Clinton's negatives are oodles higher than Obama's.

It's amazing that Clinton loses independents, while Obama wins them.


To Clinton supporters, the world is a very confusing place, with happenings are are completely inexplicable.

[Phillycat]

17. The OP asked for Hillary supporters' thoughts.

Do you think you could stop being a douche for five consecutive seconds? It's OPINION ON A MESSAGE BOARD. WTF do you care??

[BlooInBloo]

22. Um, I never said the poster failed to answer the OP.

[Terran]

54. Er, no he/she didn't ask only for HRC supporters' thoughts

It was a general request. The OP DID ask people not to get into the Wright issue, and the person being criticized above did just that, along with some shite I've never even heard of (militant Muslim brother??). So perhaps THAT person could stop being a "douche"?

[Texas Hill Country]

63. does it even say Clinton in my post? and best nomination candidate isn't always best GE candidate

[DMorgan]

16. A very lengthy list........provocative, Thanks

How are we dealing with each. By the way, HOW is he bad on GLBT issues? McClurkin? Anything else?

How does he have "issues with women", I thought it was women that had issues with him!

[Texas Hill Country]

67. dodging much of their press... he has also never spoken or attended a GLBT event and never REALLY

reached out.

[LisaM]

31. Whoa! You got me at 4

What is THAT about?

He campaigned for someone who wants Sharia law?

[Texas Hill Country]

65. his "cousin" is a guy named Raila Odinga, who ran for Prez in Kenya

It is not known if they are cousins in the metaphorical sense or in blood, there are claims going both ways.

Regardless, Odinga is a self identified christian, but made a deal with the radical muslims in his country that he would institute sharia law (changing the kenyan constitution) in exchange for their support.

when he lost the election, he tried to over throw the government and tens of thousands died, hundreds of thousands were displaced.

Dick Morris was a campaign advisor

Barack, while TECHNICALLY he did not campaign FOR Odinga, did speak out about the human rights record of Odinga's opposition at Odinga rallies. It was so blatant that the Kenyan government lodged a complaint with the US State Dept that Barack was interfering with the internal politics of Kenya.

The other interesting thing to note is that there are allegations that Odinga's campaign was bankrolled by Quadaffi... nice, huh?


Here he is with Odinga giving a speech....






Oh, and yeah, this will come out.

[LisaM]

74. Is that a real picture?

I'm curious about this mostly because while I hear plenty about how we should deal or not deal with other countries for a variety of reasons, how those countries treat women never seems to come up. My particular example would be Saudi Arabia, but there are others.

[Texas Hill Country]

80. yes, it is a real picture. and that is the same trip that the muslim outfit pic came from

[Cant trust em]

86. I'll be interested to see how they make frame this for the American attention span

Should be interesting to see the coverage.

[lumberjack_jeff]

89. Doh!

This was my fear.

[cornermouse]

88. snopes.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/kenya.asp

The repubs made it into an email.

[Cant trust em]

41. as to point 6 in the second half of your thread (women)

Exit polls had shown that since Ohio he has gotten better in every contest working with women. Let's not forget that his problems with women will largely disappear when he's not running against a woman.

[KSinTX]

92. McCain wants a *clean* campaign for OH SO MANY reasons

First of all, none of this will be addressed by the McCain campaign and if the GOP is really, really smart they won't either. Here's why:

1. rezko - this will be brought up

(McCain's) Florida campaign co-chair and state Rep. Bob Allen was arrested Wednesday after offering to perform oral sex for $20 on an undercover male police officer.

GOP Arizona Rep. Rick Renzi -- the co-chairman of Sen. John McCain's campaign in Arizona -- has been indicted for extortion, wire fraud, money laundering and other charges related to a land deal in Arizona.

2. Wright - not his racist stuff, his GD america, his AIDS stuff, etc

http://www.talk2action.org/story/2008/5/1/11248/20491
(P)astor John Hagee, who has endorsed the presidential bid of Arizona Republican Senator John McCain, Jr., claimed that American public schools provide abortion services. Hagee stated, "Your daughter can get an abortion in public school without telling you but she can't get an aspirin without your approval." The pastor also claimed that public school teachers can force their students to study a "precursor to witchcraft" and suggests that America has invited "satan" and demonic spirits into its public school systems by failing to display the Ten Commandments on classroom walls. Presidential hopeful John McCain, Jr. has said he is "glad to have" Hagee's support and "admires" the leadership of the Texas pastor - who has declared God has cursed and doomed America.

3. Ties to terrorists - factual or not, tentative or not, there can be ties made to Ayers, Hamas, Auchi, Khalafi, etc

http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/columnists/chi-oped0504chapmanmay04,0,6061828.column
McCain finds his own radical friend
Steve Chapman
May 4, 2008

What McCain didn't mention is that he has his own Bill Ayers—in the form of G. Gordon Liddy. Now a
conservative radio talk-show host, Liddy spent more than 4 years in prison for his role in the 1972 Watergate burglary. That was just one element of what Liddy did, and proposed to do, in a secret white House effort to subvert the Constitution. Far from repudiating him, McCain has embraced him.

How close are McCain and Liddy? At least as close as Obama and Ayers appear to be. In 1998, Liddy's home was the site of a McCain fundraiser. Over the years, he has made at least four contributions totaling $5,000 to the senator's campaigns - including $1,000 this year.

-snip-

In 1994, after the disastrous federal raid on the Branch Davidian compound in Waco, Texas, he gave some advice to his listeners: "Now if the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms comes to disarm you and they are bearing arms, resist them with arms. Go for a head shot; they're going to be wearing bulletproof vests. . . . Kill the sons of bitches."

-snip-

Liddy also said he should have recommended shots to the groin instead of the head. If that wasn't enough to inflame any nut cases, he mentioned labeling targets "Bill" and "Hillary" when he practiced shooting."

4. His cousin that he campaigned for in Kenya that promised to institute sharia law

http://web1.foreignpolicy.com/node/6471
Obama's campaign denies that Rajula and Obama are related; Rajula and Obama's father just happen to come from the same Kenyan village. To Rajula's credit, though, Obama's paternal grandmother says she considers herself a grandmother to Rajula, and Rajula is known for organizing part of Obama's itinerary when he visited Kenya (although Obama's campaign wouldn't comment on this).

5. his militant muslim brother

McCain's daughter:
http://www.gulf-times.com/site/topics/article.asp?cu_no=2&item_no=196125&version=1&template_id=46&parent_id=26
During last Thursday night’s debate in South Carolina, for example, McCain said: “I’m not interested in trading with Al Qaeda. All they want to trade is burqas,” he quipped, referring to a type of dress some women in Muslim countries wear.

Local Muslims say that criticising Al Qaeda is legitimate, but wonder why he would make a snide remark about a dress? The remark was especially bothersome, some said, considering that McCain’s adopted daughter, Bridget McCain, is from one of the biggest Muslim countries, Bangladesh.

McCain's brother:
http://silflayhraka.blogspot.com/2003_02_23_silflayhraka_archive.html
Other thugs would be much more hesitant to challenge the peace - I rather think this strange Kim Jung-IL would be quietly listening to his single radio station, instead of waving in the air history's most dangerous kinds of weapon, like an infantile bully raging at those who would dare ignore him. He would welcome being overlooked.
-snip-
So now we must not hesitate. Or another moment is gone. Perhaps forever, this time. Who will believe us, in the future? Why should they? Uncle Sam with a big mouth and a paper hat.

And our allies? Ah, France and Germany don't want this venture, because they know how it would increase the influence of the United States, and cause a proportional decrease in theirs -- and their vanity. We can certainly understand why the princes and the dictators of the Middle East don't want us there. What gang wants a police station in their neighborhood?

We must do this.

And, then, folks, we must turn to North Korea. . . .

--Joe McCain

McCain's wife:
http://www.phoenixnewtimes.com/1994-09-08/news/opiate-for-the-mrs/
Opiate For the Mrs.
When laws are broken, somebody's got to be punished. In the case of Cindy McCain, that somebody is Tom Gosinski


6. flag pins, hand over the heart, and "proud of america"


What's there to say?


MCCAIN BONUS ROUND:

"McCain naively called it 'torture'. Fortunately some of his senior campaign people read STR (ShellyTheRepublican) and understood just how out of touch John was on this key issue. It’s great that John is the sort of person who listens to America - lets hope he listens to us on these important issues."

And in the banner: WE SUPPORT TONY ZIRKLE IN HIS WAR AGAINST JEWISH PORN!

THE MUST READ PORTION AT THE TONY ZIRKLE LINK

[Phillycat]

13. 2 and 3 are at the top of my list.

I also believe he cannot appeal to working-class voters in Northern industrial states (I'm in PA so this has significance to me).

On a more subjective level, I find him arrogant and off-putting. He said he would not run this year because he wanted to get more experience, but so many sycophants told him he should that he ended up believing he was entitled to the presidency.

I have serious doubts he can win in the general and that is my main objection to his nomination. We must have a Democrat in the White House.

That said, I will vote for him as the nominee.

[DMorgan]

32. Appreciate your honesty here. and..

What can we do to change this situation to get white working class folks to vote FOR him in NOV?

Ideas?

[Phillycat]

34. Well, I'd say put Hillary on the ticket would be at the top of that list.

But I don't think he's gonna do it.

[DMorgan]

60. Well, I don't think GLBT voters will help Obama, since most of them are in cities

and Hillary is more hated than Obama in the South, so how does putting Hillary on the ticket HELP Obama?

Let's be realistic, please!

[Phillycat]

68. You didn't ask about GLBT voters, you asked about white working class voters.

And putting Hillary on the ticket would certainly help Obama with white working class voters. But now I see you weren't interested in honest debate on this thread, you just wanted to bash Hillary some more. Carry on.

[DMorgan]

76. I am interested in HONEST debate......you misunderstood, obviously.......

How does Hillary, reviled among working class voters who are Republicans, help Obama?

The Gay or GLBT vote is NOT Obama's problem.......working white voters ARE! How does Hillary help that, when she insults Obama for months on end?

[highplainsdem]

61. I agree that would help.

[DMorgan]

66. Show me some reason why?

NO, you just want Hillary there in the White House.



There is NO positive Hillary can bringing to Obama. Hillary should SERIOUSLY consider retirement to a Greek island to help Obama.

[highplainsdem]

93. Excuse me. I didn't realize you were being completely hypocritical

in your OP when you asked for feedback and asked others to be civil and mature.

Obama's best chance of winning Hillary's supporters and convincing them he can unify and lead the party is to extend an olive branch by offering her a chance to be on the ticket.

But given your response so far (including some of your responses to others that I just read), I wouldn't expect you to be able to understand that.

This topic was a joke, and you weren't the least bit sincere. You're another Obama supporter convinced that your candidate is flawless and that anyone who isn't as "enlightened" as you are is either ignorant or a racist.

You just don't get it, do you? What Obama has so far is a very narrow victory in primary races, and he can't afford to treat Hillary and her supporters with the smug contempt all too many of his supporters show for them here.

Your topic was a waste of time, except for your own vain amusement.

And for the sake of our party and country, and our planet, I have to hope that Obama is much more intelligent than supporters like you.

[Cant trust em]

48. I don't think entitled to the presidency is the right term

I think of entitled as deserving something without actually having to earn it. I don't think that he can be entitled to anything since he started out 30 points down in most polls. He had to bust his ass to get to where he is right now. So he may be inexperienced in certain ways, but I don't think that means he doesn't deserve to be considered just like everyone else. He didn't expect this nomination to be handed to him and I don't think that by any stretch of the imagination that has happened. He's up against one of the most tenacious campaigners any of us will ever see.

[DMorgan]

82. WOW, good summary!

Hillary felt "entitled" because she had lived there for 8 years, lived in another "First Lady" mansion for other years......she though it would "all be over by Super Tuesday".......hello?

Now Hillary supporters want her to have some fingers in the pie in the Executive, just like she had when her buddy husband Bill was having his fingers in.................never mind.

[Cant trust em]

84. I didn't want to get into Clinton since the post addressed Obama, but since you brought it up...

Entitlement is blowing off the amount of actual work that it takes to achieve your goals. Like if I knew someone who had a job opening, so instead of polishing my resume up and writing a nice cover letter, I half-ass it assuming that my personal connection would be enough.

Similarly, Clinton assumed that since she had been first lady for 8 years, in the senate for 6, had a lot of money and support that she would cruise to the nomination on those alone. She could blow off large swaths of the base and run a disconnected campaign and still become president. Contrast that to Obama who had no money, no support and little experience. This guy couldn't afford to take anything for granted and had to bust his ass to get to within a stone's throw of the nomination.

[DMorgan]

85. Yes, I hope Hillary supporters read your post.........because I can translate it for them if they .

Don't get it!


THERE IS NO FREE LUNCH!

[Carrieyazel]

24. That Obama will not win the general against McCain

[sandnsea]

26. Retitle thread: More Lying Lies from the Lying Liars

All that's in this thread so far is pure shit. Civil? When people do nothing but lie and can't stop themselves??

Right.

Just more flame bait against the candidate which is exactly why Hillary needs to get the hell out.

[niyad]

37. the question was about perception--oh, and his comments about abstinence and "prayerful" decisions

are his own words. sorry you have a problem with that.

[sandnsea]

45. Quit distorting

and look at his record. It's clear that he is 100% pro-choice and 100% pro sex education.

http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Barack_Obama_Abortion.htm

[niyad]

51. not distorting anything. those are his words. what part of that do you not understand?

he is pro-choice, so long as the woman makes her decision "prayerfully". it isn't any of his, or anybody else's, business, HOW a woman arrives at that decision.

and since abstinence education has been shown to be a dismal failure, not to mention riddled with lies and inaccurate info, the fact that he supports it is worrisome.

he is not a saint, he is not perfect, and guess what, people can comment on whatever bothers them about him.

last I checked, there was still a certain amount of free speech and thought left to us.

[sandnsea]

55. Just a load of hateful lying UNCIVIL bullshit

He never said a woman had to decide on abortion "prayerfully". He said women should have the right to make the choice themselves, that women don't make it casually, most make it prayerfully. And that would be because most Americans are religious, a simple fact, whether you like it or not.

[niyad]

62. uncivil? because I am speaking the truth? you can twist all you want to,

what I wrote is the truth.

I know it pains you to realize that some of us know exactly what we are talking about, and all your temper tantrums aren't going to change that.

funny that you talk about others being uncivil, given the titles of some of your posts. but that's okay, we understand. it's hard to have your hero challenged by those who don't agree with you.

[sandnsea]

77. You won't respond to his actual record and words

Just distort and attack, then call on Obama's supporters to reach out and make peace. :crazy:

[DMorgan]

83. OH PULEEAZZE!

Do you want a Democrat in the White House or do you just want to argue Obama's choice of words in one instance on TV?

You are some strange Democrat.

[BalancedGoat]

81. I think that you are confusing abstinence education with abstinence-only education.

If someone could show me that he was pushing abstinence-only education I would definitely have a problem with that; however, I've never had a problem with including a push for abstinence into a comprehensive approach to sex-ed. I think you would be hard pressed to find a democratic politician who feels that we should abandon abstinence all together.

[DMorgan]

39. Thanks for being ALMOST civil, and being honest!

I think we need to look into Obama's perceived weaknesses in the USA NOW.... and deal with it!

I hope all of these issues, conceptions, misconceptions, rumors REAL OR IMAGINED, have a plan to be put-away-with!!!!!!

[sandnsea]

47. This just perpetuates the lies

Been here before. There are people who are still telling lies about Kerry. You're not helping.

[DMorgan]

57. Lies about Kerry hurt him, I want to avoid this by being pro-active in a way...

to refute and destroy them.

Kerry's mistake was not going after them early enough, not being pro-active.

Let's TRY to win this one for the Dem's please, not fight and insult each other for six more months until we lose, again!

Let's TRY to win!

[sandnsea]

58. No, this is the exact shit DUers did to Kerry then

Posted all the lies pretending to ask for help. And here we go again. People suck.

[DMorgan]

64. I know I know, I know people really suck... and solving these issues by ignoring them... is

FAR BETTER!!!

Just like Kerry did.

[sandnsea]

78. They're LIES, not issues

And no amount of distortion or disruption will change that.

[DMorgan]

79. Well, sometimes you have to remember what Mark Twain said..........

A lie can go around the world faster than the truth can go from one person to another.........or something close to that.

[DMorgan]

91. And some people here are all about listing problems.....in defense of Clinton

No, this thread is NOT intended as a way for Clinton supporters to try to get Clinton nominated.

It's a reality check.......Obama is not perfect, but is he able to win with our help on identifying issues and dealing with them.

By the way, I think this list would be TWICE as long for Hillary.

Back on topic?

"So, lets go for the real beef ! What negative impressions (misconceptions or otherwise) are there out in Democratic voter land?"

[McCamy Taylor]

29. Obama is a great candidate and will be a great president!

He is a politician, just like LBJ, FDR, Lincoln, Jefferson and Clinton. They all had to be to get elected. Anybody who thinks differently, does not understand the difference between a president and a TV personality.

:P

[TheDudeAbides]

42. self delete - not meant as reply

[grasswire]

40. he attracts rude, divisive zealots. (eom)

[DMorgan]

71. I see we have attracted some flies who think this thread is manure............nt

[TheDudeAbides]

43. add to list that his most visible supporters act like Moonies n/t

[DMorgan]

73. See above post!

[lumberjack_jeff]

44. Here's a few:

1) His plan for healthcare will fail to solve the problem. The cost of that failure will be another 20 years of conventional wisdom that public solutions will not work. There's a very good argument to be made that failing to try is better than doing something that is doomed to fail.
2) At every turn, his supporters reinforce the perception that Obama is smug and condescending. "Bitter rural voters" would not have been an issue at all had his more urbane supporters not laid the foundation with 50 thousand "College graduates vote for Obama! See? Old peoples 'r dumb! LOLZ!!11!"
3) Obama has an uphill fight with southern rural whites. It's intellectually lazy as well as fucked-up arithmetic to write them off. We don't need a majority of them, but we need enough of them to vote for Obama to not negate our advantages elsewhere.
4) Michelle. I know that acting like a candidate's spouse puts a severe crimp in your style. Do it anyway.
5) The above lack of identifying with working class people makes him more susceptible to a perception that he's the guy to blame for unregulated immigration (and unreasonably huge numbers of h1-b visas). His rhetoric, given his public persona as demonstrated by his supporters, makes anything he says against NAFTA look like a head-fake.

[Texas Hill Country]

70. #4 is an issue.

[DMorgan]

75. A good list.............got any ideas how to fight this... or are you ...

Voting for McCain?

Just asking. I think that there are techniques and photo ops, not bowling videos, but OTHER stuff we can have him do.

Let's get working for our nominee for the next President !

[lumberjack_jeff]

87. I'm absolutely voting for Obama.

1) he should stop talking about healthcare, and simply express a desire to work with congress. It's too late to back explicitly away from optional insurance at this point. He should just pass whatever congress gives him.
2) he should have more events like the ones he had recently in Indiana - they were great. No one expects him to be a great bowler, and it was an excellent opportunity to have a little fun at his own expense. One person's pandering is another persons attempt to connect.
3) If Michelle feels compelled to describe how Barack's feet stink, she should stay home.

[susankh4]

49. Is he really going to consider school vouchers?

I think that is a major concern for educators. As it should be.

And... is he going to flick us off his shoulder any time he doesn't like our questions? I think that was in very poor taste, to be honest.

And, finally, is he going to allow himself to be photographed next to gay people? That Gavin Newsome/ Donny McClurkin thing was really a huge turnoff.

Those are my first three negative impressions. They have yet to be addressed by Mr. Obama or any of his supporters. So... now is your chance.

[DMorgan]

90. Well.......you raise some interesting issues ! nt

[susankh4]

94. It would be nice to receive some real answers to them, quite honestly.

I am not being snotty. I really want to know!

[Pisces]

52. I have zero concerns

[Missouri Blue]

95. Okay . . .

1) Gasoline isn't expensive in the US. You don't believe me? Just read these statistics:

1. Bosnia-Herzegovina $10.86
2. Eritrea $9.58
3. Norway $8.73
4. United Kingdom $8.38
5. Netherlands $8.37
6. Monaco $8.31
7. Iceland $8.28
8. Belgium $8.22
9. France $8.07
10. Germany $7.86
111. United States $3.45

Source: AIRINC

Why do we feel the pain? Because everything else is expensive and inflating too. The cost of health care is fifteen percent of our GDP. The cost of housing has been running at 25 percent of income per household food is probably about 15 percent and rising. Each household probably spends another fifteen percent to service non-mortgage debt. Then, sounding like a Republican, there's taxes, about thirty percent.

What's left? When the truck drivers protested the cost of fuel, the point was that their margins were probably very thin to begin with.