Remember: Clinton is about as popular as Obama

[MonkeyFunk]

To read this board, you'd think that Clinton is universally hated by Democrats and the general electorate, adn Obama is revered.

It's just not true. By any measure, they're about equally popular. They've each got the support of roughly half the party. Polls go back and forth over who voters prefer over McCain, but Clinton seems to be leading a bit in that measure.

Some times you have to step away from the echo chamber here and look at the real world.

[Maddy McCall]

1. I think that this is the very reason that Obama supporters hover in GDP....

they like the illusion it presents them.

[grantcart]

8. always projecting psychological demensions onto advisaries in a bizarre way that

reveals your own obsessions.

Hillary Clinton walks off the stage. Barack Obama leaves in a paranoid walk.

Clinton supporters communicate in GDP and Obama supporters hover.

[Kittycat]

2. Actually, she has much higher negatives.

And is strongly considered untrustworthy.

[thunder rising]

12. And is strongly considered untrustworthy.

Oh, darn, did you just say that? Sorry. :evilgrin:

[cliffordu]

33. Yep - and the longer it goes on the worse she looks...

like a panderbear in a pantsuit.....

[flpoljunkie]

105. Rasmussen: Clinton 46%/Fav/52%Unfav, Obama 51%Fav/47%Unfav. McCain 49%/48%

It looks like the DNC ads are helping to drive down McCain's Favorability ratings. Go, Dr. Dean! Putting our Democracy Bonds to work!

https://www.democrats.org/page/contribute/democracybonds

Rasmussen Fav/UnFav Ratings: http://rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/election_20082/2008_presidential_election/overall_favorable_ratings_for_presidential_candidates

[blm]

115. And if MORE VOTERS knew she and media have been lying about her chance to win they'd have

abandoned her long ago.

Many voters had no idea that Hillary campaign and the corporate media were lying to them all this time, as both knew since shortly after Super Tuesday that she would not have the math to win.

So - with a corporate media willing to lie for her, Hillary continued her lie to Dem voters. She has NO RESPECT for their intelligence and didn't think they deserved the truth.

[Xipe Totec]

3. Indeed

:thumbsup:

[thevoiceofreason]

4. Not for long

[sandnsea]

5. No, that's not true

She is liked by about half the Dem Party - and that's it. Less than 25% of the whole population. She is reviled by huge portions of the country, depending on locale. He does not generate that kind of animosity and the hatred built up during this primary is largely based on lies. It will still be difficult to counter the Republican lies, but not impossible as it would be with Hillary.

[Maddy McCall]

7. It is true. You just don't like the fact.

[democracy1st]

71. LMAO ur funny

[DemGa]

11. Oh no, Hillary Clinton scores very high with DEMS

You can't buy the negative smear campaign/character assaults from Team Obama - nothing more than a low-down campaign tactic.

[verges]

63. Yeah, what he said. n/t

[Jamastiene]

6. I sure voted for her.

Thank you for some perspective on this. People really do need to chill out and accept the fact that they are BOTH Democrats and BOTH have lots of supporters.

[peacebird]

9. then why is Obama leading in $$$ from small donors and Clinton resorting to loaning herself 10mil?

Why is Clinton losing support? She was the inevitable one? She was expecting a coronation?
Why - with the huge cash she had at the beginning - did she not seal the deal? If she is so revered?

The more people know, the more they like Obama and his message of hope. The same cannot be said of Hillary. She chose to repeat the repuke talking points of terra terra fear fear fear.

Then she chose to try to swiftboat Obama. WHILE talking up the presumptive Repub McSame..... Bad Form

And it cost her.

[northzax]

119. Obama supporters have more money?

I personally donated to Hillary, not much since I am underemployed. I know 18 people (including couples) who have maxed to Obama. They all individually make well over a hundred grand a year (in the case of some of the couples, well clear of 300K combined. I gave a much higher percentage of my income than they did, however.

[MonkeyFunk]

129. She didn't swiftboat Obama

Swiftboating is taking a candidate's strength and turning it against him. That's exactly what the Obama camp did to Clinton, by portraying her as a racist. It's what's going on here today. It's an asinine assertion, but you guys keep pushing it. It's disgusting.

[ProSense]

10. In every contest she wins this category significantly:

Attacks unfairly



Says something.

[bunnies]

13. So what? Note to those who cant understand whats going on: She LOST.

Those who need to be coddled, need to call their mamas. Politics isnt for children.

[Arkansas Granny]

14. That is correct and the overall poll numbers reflect that statement.

The averages here show Obama leading Clinton in national polls by 0.1%.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/democratic_presidential_nomination-191.html

The averages also show her as having a better chance to beat McCain.

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/national.html

[roseBudd]

16. It's called a primary, with voters and delegates, it's not a poll

[roseBudd]

15. It has been reported that kitchen sink has hurt Hillary, Snipergate also hurt her

[Mags]

17. Wright ain't going away either. Kitchen sink doesn't hold a candle to Repub. swifting boating.

[Major Hogwash]

20. They have been saying that shit about the repub swiftboating bullshit for months

Like you guys are a part of it and know so much abou it.

Hillary has a history dating back to 1980 - lying and flip-flopping on every damned issue there is under the sun.

Hillary is toast - get used to it.

[Mags]

24. I have never been nor will ever be a part of the swiftboating crew.

Just cause I don't vote for BO doesn't mean I would ever stoop that low. Thanks anyway.

[anigbrowl]

27. You sure do great PR for them though

according to you they have super powers.

[Mags]

30. If you think that, then you are either in your first election or

you have been asleep for a few years, the swift boaters have no conscious, they have no decency, they demolished a war hero, they well be on BO Or Hillary like a hog on slop.

[Forkboy]

35. Still sounds like you.

And trust me, this isn't MY first election.

[Warren DeMontague]

47. So why not help Obama fight them?

Shouldn't you be rallying around the guy?

[Major Hogwash]

32. It's like they're saying "don't look under your bed, there might be monsters under there"

Geezus Christ, Hillary is over and done with and yet they still make these wild-eyed predictions "just wait for the repubs to start on your man".

What's the fuckin' difference!
Ferraro already said that Obama "was just lucky to be black"!!!

How much deeper into the sewer can the repubs get than that?

[Warren DeMontague]

22. Then might I suggest you send a donation to Senator Obama to help him counter those attacks

since he's going to be our nominee.

[Mags]

23. I would never waste my money on him.

[Taxmyth]

28. Seconded

Let's see how he does fundraising for the GE. Hope his supporters have deep pockets.

[Mags]

37. maybe they will, maybe they won't , but I will never give my money to him.

[Warren DeMontague]

46. Why not? Wouldn't you like to see a Democrat in the White House? Like, when Justice Stevens retires?

Seriously.

Why not?

[democracy1st]

73. you're dayum right we have deep pockets and degrees to

[emilyg]

126. He won't get a penny from me.

[movonne]

41. Well hillary needs your money...please send her enough to get out

debt..

[northzax]

121. I agree

everyone should max out. Obama will need about $200 million this fall to be comeptitive (remember, he's running a 50 state strategy, that's only 4 million a state. maybe we should shoot for $250million.

[anigbrowl]

25. Yeay yeah, Clinton should win because the Republicans are so scary, we know

You know what they'd say about Clinton? That she bought the nomination, and the Democratic party is the party of corruption for letting it happen. I'll take the attack ads on Wright, thanks.

[Kokonoe]

31. Hillary's swift boat attacks can not be defended against

without alienating her supporters, or she would have been swatted down already.

[Major Hogwash]

18. Where? What bowling alley do you go to?

She's the worst thing that ever happened to the Democratic party.
She wasn't qualified to be a Senator in the first place.

[MonkeyFunk]

58. Wrong

She's got the support of about half the Democratic party, and more Americans would vote for her against McCain than they would Obama.

She's popular.

[MadBadger]

19. Obama's favorable are better among the General Electorate though.

[BlueJac]

21. I am sorry Hillary is not for me......

The Clinton's and their NAFTA support is something I can never forget. Besides Bill gets millions supporting trade agreements. If people like these facts I feel sorry for them. They profit on the backs of the working class in this country.

[Jed Dilligan]

26. I think most Democrats like them both

You get a more polarized opinion when you spend a lot of time arguing about it.

[bowens43]

29. She is hated by the independents. They will decide the GE.

She is also disliked by a majority of Democrats and virtually all republicans. Next to bush and maybe cheney, she is the most hated politician in America.

[MonkeyFunk]

59. hatedby independents?

I think Obama won independents 53/47.

[northzax]

122. oh please

she is hated by a wingnut few, who have been strengthened by the constant sexist attacks against her. She is an evil, conniving, bitch, probably a lesbian, who wants to enforce her will on us, I'm an American, dammnit, I don't listen to no uppity woman!

[dogday]

34. I rate it 51% Obama 45% Clinton and that is very close...

I hope when the primaries are over, we can join together to defeat McCain in November....

[Faygo Kid]

36. I'm all for the real world. And perceived popularity no longer has anything to do with it.

But, go ahead and vent. This is your time to do it, and to be expected.

[MonkeyFunk]

60. Has nothing to do with what?

I'm pointing out that people who act like she's wildly unpopular are just wrong. God, you guys can't bear to hear even the simplest truths, can you?

[Hippo_Tron]

38. True, but Obama has room to improve

Most people have already made up their mind about Clinton.

[merh]

39. As others have pointed out

Hillary has higher negative ratings

Hillary is considered the most untrustworthy of the lot.

And that popularity you allege she has, it isn't really 1/2 the party and it definitely isn't 1/2 the nation.

[MonkeyFunk]

61. More than half the democrats who have voted

voted for her. You're just wrong in your assessment.

[merh]

67. LOL - democrats don't make up the entire population of this nation

:rofl:

More than half have voted for her? How is that, show me those numbers.

[MonkeyFunk]

70. You have difficulty with comprehension

I didn't say Democrats make up the population of the country.

And yes, Hillary does better among democrats. Obama's margin comes largely from independents.

It's just ridiculously stupid to deny that Hillary Clinton is a popular political figure. She's about as popular as Obama.

If she weren't, this race wouldn't be so close.

[merh]

98. Nope, no reading comprehension issues for me

More than half the democrats who have voted

voted for her. You're just wrong in your assessment.

You said it and you can't back it up.

And it is ridiculously stupid to ignore her negative ratings and how she is loathed by a huge chunk of folks. It's not just voting for her, it's about those that will vote just to vote against her.

[stillcool]

113. and I wonder how many of those...

are pleased with the tactics of the Clinton's now. Maybe we should all have a re-vote along with Michigan and Florida.

[scheming daemons]

40. 58% negativity ratings. She's really NOT.

She has a HARD ceiling of 47% in a GE. Obama's ceiling is much higher.


They're both as popular IN THE DEMOCRATIC PARTY..... but her negatives prevent her from being able to win a GE.


...and they make her an unacceptable anchor as a VP.

[MonkeyFunk]

62. Half the party supports her

you're just wrong. Hate clouds one's vision.

[Richard Steele]

66. And Obama is TWICE as popular with everyone else. The math says "FAIL". nm

[MonkeyFunk]

83. That's an entirely made-up statistic

Look at the recent national polls - the lead goes back and forth between Obama and Clinton. They're about equally popular.

[Independent-Voter]

108. It'll take more than democrats to elect any candidate, and you're kidding yourself if you think

otherwise.

[reflection]

42. Yes she is, but

it's not about the positives, it's about the negatives. She draws the righties that McCain is having trouble connecting with because her negatives are very high, especially with that group.

[Forkboy]

43. And Hillary is electable.

[rucky]

101. They're both electable.

It's not an issue. Neither is experience. If they were, we'd have a race between Biden and Richardson right about now.

[Forkboy]

124. Exactly.

:)

[ElsewheresDaughter]

44. indeed and many here think that DU is the only world

[roseBudd]

48. actually it is called polling, it is scientific, uses lots of math and is more real than opinions

on DU

[AZBlue]

45. Really? Because according to all the polls, her negativity goes up and his goes down every day.

[lojasmo]

49. LOL WUT?

You should really read a little.

Google "obama clinton negatives" then get back to us.

[LoZoccolo]

50. No. Hillary is being propped up by Republicans with no intention of voting for her in the general.

I posted about it this morning but as you can see it's still CRICKETS CRICKETS CRICKETS CRICKETS CRICKETS CRICKETS CRICKETS CRICKETS

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5870101&mesg_id=5870101

[Bonobo]

52. Question for you LZ.

Knowing how you feel about Nader, I have to ask.

Who is a bigger pumpkin fucker? Hillary or Ralph?

[LoZoccolo]

100. lol

That's a difficult one. Hillary definitely has more power to ruin things this time around.

[MonkeyFunk]

64. More democrats have voted for Clinton

than Obama.

The truth just burns you guys.

[LoZoccolo]

103. I wonder if she'll thank Rush in her victory speech! n/t

[nomorewhopper]

51. Unfortunately for Hillary, this ain't no popularity contest. It's an election. And she lost.

[Darth_Kitten]

57. Funny this comment coming from an Obama supporter........

isn't popularity what it's all about? :sarcasm:

[MonkeyFunk]

84. Which has nothing to do with my point

I'm saying that it's wrong for you guys to treat her as if the party or the country hates her. She's about as popular as Obama. You might make wiser decisions if you recognize that.

[AtomicKitten]

53. her net negative rating says otherwise

From NBC's Chuck Todd and Mark Murray
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/04/182413.aspx

A brand-new Gallup survey has Hillary Clinton's positive/negative rating in the net negative territory (48%/51%).

Gallup says that Clinton's image has consistently moved into the negative territory as this campaign has progressed.

[onenote]

54. actually, among Democrats they are viewed about equally. Overall, she lags behind in "favorability"

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/clinton_favorableunfavorable-644.html

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/2008/president/us/obama_favorableunfavorable-643.html

[Lord Helmet]

55. she's as popular now as a crotch rash

[MonkeyFunk]

85. You're wrong

she's about as popular as Obama.

[ShortnFiery]

56. Give it a rest, without Limbaugh's Operation Chaos, your heroine would have been TOAST by now. eom

[MonkeyFunk]

65. More democrats support Clinton than Obama

You're just spreading lies. What a surprise.

[democracy1st]

75. link please

[stillcool]

114. actually.

...it is more of the "Democrats that matter", from the "states that matter" support Hillary.

[democracy1st]

74. Saved her in Texas and Indiana

[northzax]

120. you know what's amazing?

this thought on this board that Rush Limbaugh is some all powerful being who can alter the course of large state elections.

I get it though, when independants and republicans vote for Obama, they love him. when they vote for Hillary, it's all about Rush.

[Stop Cornyn]

68. On what planet?

[Blue_In_AK]

69. I've been saying this for some time now...

Diss Hillary and you diss half the Democrats in the country. It's just not productive.

[CakeGrrl]

78. Who's dissing her? She brought her negatives on herself in this campaign

I had a more difficult decision to make between the two candidates until she started playing to the fears of the "beer crowd" and continuing downward as the campaign has progressed.

Pointing out and calling out her campaign's dirty tactics may not be enjoyable to her supporters, but it should not be confused with 'dissing'.

[Blue_In_AK]

106. I'm not a supporter...

I'm just saying ... it's okay to point out negatives in her campaign if you want to, but name-calling and some of the more nasty posts I've seen would seem to be, in my opinion, antagonizing to her supporters. When you (not you personally but in the generic) make all these personal attacks on her, saying she's not a "real" Democrat, that she should be drummed out of the party, that she's a racist, etc., that does reflect on her supporters, and it turns them off. It does NOT make them more likely to support Obama.

[Political Heretic]

72. Her favorables, trustworthiness and cares about me stats are dramatically poor.

[eridani]

76. Clinton is despised by the Rethug base, and they are indifferent or lukewarm toward Obama

Obama make more of these peeps stay home and Clinton brings them out to vote in droves--get it?

[bluetrain]

79. Half of the Democratic base also feels indifferent, lukewarm or worse toward Obama.

[eridani]

80. Obama has a voter registration and GOTV organization that can overcome that

Does Clinton?

[bluetrain]

89. Proof? Link? College kids are the least reliable voting group in the country.

That could change if there's a draft; hopefully, there won't be.

[eridani]

92. See the following link

http://my.barackobama.com/page/event/search_results?state=WA&event_type%5B0%5D=75

The Obama campaign is working with the WA state Dem party on a really massive voter registration drive on Saturday. This will not net him a single delegate here that he does not alrady have. The Clinton campaign was contacted but showed no interest. Her campaign here consisted of sending her state coordinator around to bully and threaten legislative district and Dem county chairs.

My LD actually had more retired people than kids in our last drive.

[bluetrain]

96. Do you have a non-biased link? I ask that, jokingly, because I'm not sure one exists at this point

for either side. But anything ending in "obama.com" is obviously biased.

I don't know a hell of a lot about Oregon. I know the rural areas are racists/militia hotbeds where a vote toward anyone but Ron Paul would be a surprise. I have taken photos of frightening billboards while driving through to confirm this assertion. And I know the areas in and around Olympia and Portland are very liberal. I had some great pie in Oregon.

My time in WA was weird. Mostly spent hanging out with a Janis Joplin lookalike who sold tie-dyed t-shirts...out of a van...by the river....

Maybe I'm wrong, but Oregon and Vermont always seem to me like they really oughtta secede to Canada, hell, at this point, we all should, but they seem more on the edge of revolution than the rest of the country ever gets.

[eridani]

102. What the link demonstrates is a huge organizational effort on voter registration

Clinton isn't interested in working with local party organizations, and Obama is. Even when, as in this case, there are no delegates to be gained from it.

[rodeodance]

77. Thanks MF--your OP does put the silliness on this board into perspective.

[hokies4ever]

81. You sound bitter

How much money did you flush down the toilet in Hillary's campaign? :rofl:

[MonkeyFunk]

86. You think that sounds bitter?

How strange.

[hokies4ever]

87. Been reading a lot of your recent comments

and can tell you've been drinking a bit much of that Hillary kool-aid

[MonkeyFunk]

107. Because I defend a democrat

from the freeperish attacks here?

I've been defending her from freepers since the early 90s. Nothing new.

[donheld]

82. She's especially popular with the Limbaugh, Coulter, Hannity crowd.

[mod mom]

127. You forgot Richard Mellon Scaife!

[shaniqua6392]

88. Democratic Underground does not represent the average person.

We are more invested in politics. That is why we are here. Obama supporters are making a huge mistake by forgetting that she has the support of about half the Democratic Party. Millions of people voted for her in this primary season. They will celebrate if he gets the nomination as if his going to the White House is a certainty. It is far from certain and they will NEVER be able to do it without welcoming her supporters. If everyone out there in the "real world" were like the Obama supporters on DU, he would never make it to Washington. I have never seen such hatred towards a person. I think some of the stuff said here over the past few months by Obama supporters is worse than the things I have seen posted about Bush. Someone had better wake them up soon, or Obama will lose to McCain.

[bluetrain]

90. The tone here this season is so different from past elections that I really have a hard time

believing most of the Obama vipers are really Democrats.

[shaniqua6392]

91. I can't wait for things to get back to normal.

We shall see which posters disappear when it is over. But I have noticed that it is the same 40 or so posters that are Obama supporters that continually post in GD-P and it is the same old crap over and over. The worst thing about it has been the way that Bill and Hillary Clinton have been treated. I never saw a harsh word against them before Obama came onto the scene. Bill Clinton revived the Democratic Party from the ashes. I, for one, will never forget that. I know he was far from perfect, but shame on those Dems who have forgotten what this party was before he was elected. It was in the dumpster and Republicans dominated Washington. The Clinton's deserved better than they got here on DU.

[marions ghost]

94. I had a better opinion of the Clintons before this campaign....

they would have preserved their legacy & place in history better if they hadn't resorted to Rethuglican tactics in this campaign. They did everything they could to smear Obama. Elevating McCain over Obama publicly was an unforgivable betrayal of all who support the Democrats. They went from tough to ruthless.

Hillary's run has demonstrated that a woman candidate can compete and that both males and females will support a woman candidate for the top office. That's beneficial in a very concrete way. But she also showed her true colors. If she goes too much further she could damage the prospects for a future woman candidate. It's called quitting while ahead.

Sometimes you have to accept some hard truths about people you once admired. I think we were lucky to see these candidates so clearly.

[bluetrain]

97. You need to realize, though, that suppoesdly Democratic voices like Mike Malloy

and Randi Rhodes, etc. have been playing the right wing game for months against our own candidates. A lot of people here listen to them and, apparently, are very easily brain washed. It's tragic but true. They let other people do their thinking for them, don't do any independent research, watch MSM and vote against their own interests as a result.

I've said it before and I'll say it again, I am very wary of Randi Rhodes' CIA connections.

[redqueen]

117. If you never saw a bad word about them, you weren't paying attention.

Remember when Bill was backing up Bush's war? He was hammered for that for weeks around here.

Also, please notice how the poster you just responded to called people names to make his point. It's not only Obama supporters acting like assholes. FAR from it.

[Freedom Train]

93. K&R

Those poor little Obama supporters use DU as a playground to validate their delusions.

[grrr050]

104. K & R

While claiming HRC damaging the party, they actually were the ones who did the most damage.

[Perry Logan]

95. Obama supporters are saying that half their fellow Democrats are supporting a racist candidate.

This is serious trouble for the party. Should Hillary supporters be asked to reconcile themselves with people who have called them racists?

[rodeodance]

99. that smear by many Obama supporters has been going on for months. I fear the

damage has been done.

[stillcool]

109. Hillary "Supporters"...

should own up to their own beliefs and support the party and the candidate that reflects those beliefs.

[northzax]

123. reconcile, you mean submit

Hillary supporters need to realize that she is no different from McCain, (of course, why people wouldn't listen to that and now vote for McCain is a bit unclear to me)

the strongest female national politician in US history, and a strong Democrat to boot, has been destroyed by people who would rather work with republicans. aren't you proud? and to be fair, very little is coming from the Obama campaign directly, it's all coming through surrogates.

[shadowknows69]

110. Ok, Mr Minister of Information

Thanks for assuming we can't view the real world for ourselves. The world I see has Obama kicking the shit out of Clinton in every category. What color is the sky in your world?

[MonkeyFunk]

130. That shows that you're delusional

She's about tied with him in total votes, votes among democrats, and in national polls. She's about as popular as he is. Different measures have then trading places back and forth, but they're close in all of them.

[Blue_Roses]

111. yeah, right

okay whatever:eyes:

[Texas Hill Country]

112. k & r

[SeaLyons]

116. REC

[snooper2]

118. I love these threads

some threads like the one with Hillary Inc. 5 Main mistakes; No Ignored on Thread...
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x5883262


Then this one, Ignored popping up all over the place :rofl:




GOBAMA!

[Rubiconski2009]

125. Wrong! Hillary less popular every day....

but keep deluding yourself if it makes ya feel better! :hi:

[MonkeyFunk]

131. No

the delusional people are the ones who want to piss off half the party. Clinton is about as popular as Obama, and it's stupid to pretend otherwise.

[longship]

128. After last Tuesday, that's more or less irrelevant.

For details, read Zogby's article on the BBC site, then read "The Math" post.


The Math
Zogby: Hillary heading for the exit

on edit: BTW, Zogby claims that 30 more SDs are going to jump to Obama in the next 48 hours.

[MonkeyFunk]

132. the point has nothing to do with getting the nomination

it has to do with the delusional belief that many Obama fans have that she is wildly unpopular and has no support. It would be a huge mistake to act as if that's true.

[longship]

133. I've never believed that. nt

.

[JRicks_GA]

134. She's behind Obama despite name recognition...

and having a great ex-president for a spouse out their campaigning for her. People not interested in politics see "Hillary Clinton (D)" and go with it. You could run "George Clinton (D)" and he'd probably get a lot of low-information voters going for him, just thinking he was related to Bill. Plus, he was the head of Parliament....