If She Ran as a Feminist, with Feminist Values, She Probably Would Have Beaten Obama.

[kpete]

A NYT Graph http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2008/05/09/us/politics/20080509_SUPERS_GRAPHIC.html?ex=1211083200&en=2f960bca3ea263cd&ei=5070&emc=eta3 that
Reveals the Tone Deaf Mismanaged Clinton Campaign "Appeal" to Superdelegates. It Wasn't Her Gender; It was a Botched Campaign, Running on Old Style Politics, Without a Vision. If She Ran as a Feminist, with Feminist Values, She Probably Would Have Beaten Obama. But Hillary Clinton Ran as If She Had to Show That She Had More Testosterone and Ruthlessness Than the Guys in the Race.

[Deja Q]

1. Not exactly a related question: How did Margaret Thatcher run in the 1980s?

[DJ13]

5. Isnt that the "old style politics" the OP mentioned?

Thatcher was so conservative she made Reagan look like a moderate.

Im not sure that strategy would be a winner in this day and age of a populace that feels they've been taken advantage of by conservative interests for the last 25 years.

(Something Clinton should have thought of before aiming to be another Thatcher for the last 7 years.)

[Exilednight]

13. To be fair, the Prime Minister of Great Britain is elected differently than we elect a President ...

The public elects their Parliament, then the ruling party of Parliament picks the Prime Minister. The whole system is a bit more complicated than that, but that's the simplest way to put it.

[Evergreen Emerald]

2. she was not allowed to. Any mention of feminisim, gender and she was

attacked. Had she run as a feminist, the guys would have hated her. The mem is that women are not strong enough, are irrational..and if you look at Obama's comments about her, that is exactly what he was playing up.

[zanne]

3. No. She'd scare away too many men. nt

[asjr]

4. Don't count your chickens before

they are hatched.

[BenDavid]

6. uh huh, and If ands and buts were candy and nuts we have Hanukah

and Christmas everyday.

[libnnc]

7. BINGO

:applause:

If she ran as a feminist with feminist values, she probably would have beaten Obama. But instead, she ran a campaign that whistled to and winked at the lowest denominator.

[vi5]

8. If she ran as a democrat she would have beaten Obama...

Most of the people I know who were originally for her and abandoned her along the way did so because of things like the obliterating Iran line or touting McCain's readiness, or dismissing the importance of the African American vote, or playing coy when asked about the whole Obama muslim thing, or any number of other things she pulled from the Rove Republican playbook.

No amount of feminism or anti-feminism was going to wipe that slate clean for me and many others I know.

[Jersey Devil]

9. Honest answer: Her problem is that she ran as a Clinton

She surrounded herself with all the old names and faces: Begala, Carville, Davis, McCauliffe (not to mention Bill), etc., etc., and at the same time said she was for "change". That was her real downfall (in addition to having the idiot Penn run her campaign). How can anyone make a credible argument for change when they surround themselves with all the trappings of the Bill Clinton Administration? Is it any surprise that "change" did not work for her when the visual and audio messages were clearly that she was promising a third (Bill) Clinton Administration?

[EFerrari]

14. I think you're right. n/t

[merh]

21. Ding, Ding, Ding

We have a winner!!!


:applause:

[Nancy Waterman]

10. The Great Irony

The irony is that I, for one, have wanted a woman president for a long time to get away from the out-of-control testosterone and big-ego style of politics especially strong in the last few years, but even dating from before Bush. But Hillary has focused on the more testosterone-related attributes: aggressiveness, toughness, fighter, hawkish foreign policy, drinking shots with the boys, etc. It is Obama who manifests what I was thinking of when I wanted a woman: someone who doesn't jump immediately to aggression, someone who is thoughtful about things and conciliatory except in matters of extreme importance, able to work with others, etc. To me this is a great irony indeed.

[frickaline]

11. yep.

[suston96]

12. Women outnumber men as voters nationally and in most states....

...Clinton did not attract enough women of all kinds - feminists or not. Reason?

Not all women, in fact not many women are feminists and never will be.

The quote in the OP above is nonsense.

[Exilednight]

18. PBS broke down the female vote today. 49% voted for Clinton, 47% voted for Obama.......

I keep hearing the Clinton meme that "Obama couldn't get 53% of the female vote"; but what does it say about Hillary that she couldn't break the 50% mark with women? She's down to single digits in the AA community, and I have heard people on this very board say that the AA community makes up a very small percentage of overall voters, somewhere around 12%, and that she can afford to not have the AA vote turnout. Here's something they fail to realize. Even if the AA community dropped from 12% to 10%, it could cost us the election in a big way.

Here's the stark reality, Kerry won PA, MN, and WI by less than 2%, and lost OH, NV, NM, and IA by less than 2% of the vote. That's two states that could have easily swung to Bush, or four states that could have swung to us.

Does Obama have to swing more women to vote for him? Yes.

On the other hand, Hillary has to swing more women, AND convince the AA community to turn out the same numbers that they will for Obama.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

15. No Way In Hell Would That Have Worked. Not A Chance.

She definitely made some mistakes along the way and definitely took way too much for granted early on, but if she would've ran as a feminist she wouldn't have had a prayer.

[Name removed]

16. Deleted message

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[Name removed]

17. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[ClassWarrior]

19. Okay, it would be a mistake for a woman to run as a woman.

:eyes:

Whatever you say...

NGU.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

22. Stop Making Up Points That Weren't Put Forth To Begin With.

It makes you look out of touch with reality and a bit silly.

[ClassWarrior]

24. Wow, you alerted on me for calling your statement misogynistic...

...yet you call me an idiot, out of touch with reality, and silly?

Talk about double standards. Or triple. Or quadruple.

NGU.

[OPERATIONMINDCRIME]

27. There Ya Go With The Delusions Again. You Need To Get A Grip A Bit.

I alerted on nothing, so you might want to try and keep your paranoia in check.

And yes, I did call you those things. If ya don't like the labels, then you probably should work a bit harder at not earning them so well.

[ClassWarrior]

28. Fish in a barrel.

:rofl:

NGU.

[VotesForWomen]

20. heh. if only that were true. nt

[AZBlue]

23. She's the anti-feminist - she pretends to be a man & then whines when big bad men are mean to her.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. If she had started her Senate Career by doing the right thing, like with the IWR, she would've won.

She lost a lot of us through blatant political pandering.

[Catherina]

26. Exactly. What Jersey Devil said in post #9 too n/t

[dansolo]

29. If she wanted to run as a feminist

She wouldn't have voted for the war. It is obvious to anyone paying attention that her war vote was purely to give the impression that she wouldn't be perceived as weak. If she wanted to run as a feminist, she wouldn't have needed warmongering on her resume to make her appeal to voters.