Sexism in the MSM

[Phillycat]

Below is the same video as in the thread with "B*****" in the title, but I found the title of that thread so off-putting, along with the rather extreme comments from the OP, that I didn't watch the video itself until now.

First of all, I'll say that I am a Hillary supporter, but I recognize that Obama is the presumptive nominee and I will vote for him in the GE.

My intention in reposting the video with this commentary is to ask you, as Democrats and liberals, whether this treatment of women in the media is okay with you. Whether this is acceptable to you, since it's directed at Hillary Clinton.

Here are some quotes from pundits in the video:

"Big news from New Hampshire tonight is...IT CRIES" (referring to Hillary as an "it" after the "crying" controversy in NH)

"Men won't vote for Hillary Clinton because she reminds them of their nagging wives."

"When Hillary Clinton speaks, men hear 'Take out the garbage!'"

(in reference to Hillary being tough) "The one thing we've learned from the Lorena Bobbitt case is that there's a great deal of resentment by women aimed at men."

"The only people for Clinton are the Democratic Establishment and white women...white women are a problem, but, you know, we all live with that." *laughs*

"Doesn't it seem like Chelsea's being pimped out?"

"(she looks like) everyone's first wife standing outside of probate court".

"She's trying to run away from this tough, kind of bitchy image..."

"The reason she's a candidate...is because her husband messed around...she didn't get here on her merits."

"I think someone's going to have to go out there and take her behind the barn."


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kcdnlNZg2iM

I hope very much to be shown by the responses to this thread that, despite our differences in which candidate we support, this kind of rampant sexism in the media is not okay with the majority of DUer's. I fear I will be disappointed, though. I fear many of you will say those statements and attitudes are okay with you - as long as they're directed at Hillary.

Are these statements okay with you?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

1. They still take horses out behind the barn...

Don't they?

[Phillycat]

2. I can't possibly be understanding you correctly.

What are you saying, exactly?

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

4. I'm saying I think you're confusing your metaphors.

Taking such and such "behind the barn" means to end things, such as a failed campaign.

It refers to farmers taking livestock literally behind the barn to slaughter them.

It is not a sexist comment.

[Phillycat]

6. Okay.

[Occam Bandage]

24. Not snark: What did you think it meant? I can't imagine a sexist reading of it.

[mikelgb]

26. I can imagine a sexit reading.... but I know that it would be wrong.

actually the first thing I thought of was, The Crucible where John Proctor has an encounter with a girl behind the barn...

[nemo137]

57. In that case, my friend, you are much too educated

I spent 3 months working on a production of the Crucible, hearing that line day in and day out, and the first thing I thought of was still Old Yeller - taking a sick or dying animal (or, you know, presidential bid) out back and putting it out of its misery.

[Phillycat]

27. It meant she needed her ass whupped.

And if you don't think that's sexist when directed against a grown woman, we have very different ideas of what sexist is.

[merh]

41. What makes it NOT sexist is they would say it about a male candidate

that didn't know when to end things.

That is what you don't understand, she is getting the equal treatment she has wanted. She shouldn't be treated special because she is a woman.

And the truth is, if it were a male candidate and not hillary clinton, the party would have called them in and told them it was time to give it up so the nominee could run against the republican.

[Occam Bandage]

49. You still don't understand. It's not "ass whupping" we're referring to.

He's likening her campaign to a dying farm animal that needs to be dragged behind the barn and shot. It's a common expression that's frequently applied to men and women. Saying it's "sexist" is just ignorant.

[bjnumb9]

8. Taking her out behind the barn has nothing to do with gender

It's a country saying for disciplining a child. Nothing about being a woman, man, boy, or girl.

Aside from that particular saying, there are several other lines that I do not find to be sexist. Everyone has to have their own take.

I also think that it is a moot point to claim that some of these statements are trumping up sex/gender as the main issue, when Clinton herself has often put it in the forefront when it can benefit her. If you decide that you'll go in that direction, you can't expect it to be one-way traffic. It's going to be thrown back at you as well.

[The Doctor.]

44. Don't you mean 'woodshed'?

Close enough though.

[mrreowwr_kittty]

3. They're not okay. nt

[Phillycat]

7. Thank you.

[cynatnite]

5. My mom and grandmother have not been surprised at how she's been treated...

When I told them what Chris Matthews said about Hillary a while back, they were shocked, but after a moment said it's because a lot of men are afraid of having a woman in power.

My grandmother said it makes their penises shrivel up. I still can't believe she said that. :rofl:

[Phillycat]

9. I wasn't the least bit surprised about the media.

What I was surprised about was how many DUer's not only endorsed these sorts of statements, but made them themselves.

[highplainsdem]

11. I agree that a lot of men are afraid of having a woman in power.

[Occam Bandage]

10. Step right up, folks! Feelin' low 'cause Johnny Edwards endorsed Obama?

Feelin' down because your WV victory was sullied by the quarter of the electorate who admitted they were voting on race? Well, no more, folks! Get that sympathetical, hypothetical, electrically electable victim status back with Sex Card, the new and improved tool for hyper-effective, hyperbolic, hypochondric, homeopathic image control from Cheapstunt and Son, the world-renowned makers of Race Card! Try it once! Try it twice! Try it over and again; never goes dull, never fails, never provides anything but absolute satisfactication!

That's Sex Card, folks! That ain't a vagina between your legs; no ma'am! That's a shield against the arrows of fate; that's an umbrella to keep out the rain; that's a sledgehammer that can crack a Race Card in half! Why wallow in depression and despair, when you can wallow in the righteous fury of the vaguely wronged! Step right up and buy one, folks, you can't go wrong!

[Phillycat]

12. I'll take that as "these statements are okay with me" for your vote then.

[Occam Bandage]

13. Some are, some aren't. Some are sexist, some are simply rude, some are clearly

out of context, and some are benign. However, the timing of each OMG SEXISM breakout is amusingly transparent; it couldn't be clearer who's using gender as a tool at the moment.

[Phillycat]

15. Uh.

I posted it because that other thread was posted and so many people reacted to the poorly-chosen subject line that I think few of them watched the video. I wanted to present it in a more palatable form because I thought there was an important discussion about what we will tolerate as Democrats and liberals, no matter whom it is directed against.

I stated in my OP that I will vote for Obama in the GE, and that I understand he is the nominee.

My intention was to provoke discussion about sexism and nothing more. I swear on my life that is true. But your intense need to vilify me just because of the candidate I support is duly noted.

[Occam Bandage]

21. I've read three or four near-identical threads on sexism, all unprovoked by any news event, all

the day after Clinton won a state by drawing on the 22% of West Virginians who admitted to casting racist votes, all the day John Edwards drove another nail in Clinton's coffin by endorsing Obama. And really, these "frank discussions on sexism" have a habit of popping up every time that Clinton's having a bad news day, and every time racism is being discussed on the media.

I don't think it's premeditated by any means. It's expected to come about. If this race were the other way around, we'd have emergency Race Card deployments, and I'd be mocking people who were resorting to that.

[Upton]

20. I agree, the timing of this is extremely suspect

no doubt it has more to do with disappointment over the Edward's endorsement than anything else.

[Phillycat]

28. Your suspicion is duly noted. Also wrong.

Take a long on other threads and you will see I fully expected and accepted the Edwards endorsement. I posted this thread because of the thread with "b****" in the title. I wanted to put the video in a thread with a more palatable commentary. That's all.

[demmiblue]

14. I didn't read that post for the same reasons.

No way, no how are these types of comments acceptable. I think some people are so used to seeing/hearing these types of statements and views that it doesn't even phase them. I have to say, I know a few Obama supporters have made similar statements, but the vast majority have not.

[Phillycat]

29. There have been more on DU than I ever would have imagined.

I am extremely disheartened by it.

[The Doctor.]

50. Yet everytime I ask for examples, no one has any. If there are so many, then you can link to

them.

Examples of actual sexism are fairly rare. Calling someone a 'bitch', is a gender-specific commentary on character, not on gender, otherwise it would be just as sexist to call a guy a 'dick'. If you'd like to "count" those, I'm sure you'll find a couple, but even those are rare. Oh, there are loads of accusations, but everytime I ask someone to produce the quotes and link to the offender, they call me a 'sexist' and bail.

So, do you have examples, or are you convinced of a myth?

[The Doctor.]

48. Yes, luckily they are few and far between. I like to think that most of the really

obnoxious folks are just trolls... in either camp.

[cbayer]

16. No, they are not.

I had seen this before and found it heartbreaking. In the heat of the battle, I think many have been unable to see the rampant sexism that has infected this race. History will show it more clearly.

[Phillycat]

30. I actually said "Oh my god" out loud several times while watching it.

And I thought that nothing could shock me anymore (with much respect to our esteemed former colleague of that name) when it came to sexism in the media.

[The Doctor.]

51. Most of them... no, not at all.

Some of them look 'sexist' in reverse as well;
http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=5972376&mesg_id=5975694

So they qualify. But what I want to know is WHO said them?

Glen Beck? - Well, yeah... he's an asshole, and hardly an Obama supporter.

[slinkerwink]

17. no, those statements aren't okay with me. they're wrong.

[Phillycat]

32. Thank you.

[DemBones DemBones]

18. Unfortunately, DU has shown that it does support such sexism.

I don't know how long you have been here but sexism has been a problem ever since DU began. Other forums now exist because of the sexism here, many women are no longer posting at DU because of the sexism here.


Did you know that Obama and his wife walked into a victory party when he won Iowa to Jay-Z's "99 Problems."
In case you're not familiar with it, the line "I got 99 problems but a bitch ain't one" is repeated throughout it.

What a coincidence that that song was playing. . . :eyes:


IF Dean gets the convention to nominate Obama, I will be writing in Hillary Rodham Clinton for president. Obama is NOT qualified to be president and he and his wife, not to mention his lovely supporters, have made sexist comments about HRC. Obama has also made disrespectful gestures aimed at Clinton, like the immature and self-centered person that he is.

[Occam Bandage]

23. Oh God, not the "99 problems" lie. That's been completely debunked.

[Warren DeMontague]

25. Well, now we know how DU's massive anti-choice contingent feels about the Obama nomination.

Guess NARAL's endorsement wasn't a factor?

[cali]

35. it's absoliutely disgusting and thoroughly reprehensible to repeat

a LIE that has been debunked hundreds of times with absolute proof- video and audio proof. Shame on you. I sincerely hope you don't vote for Obama. Truly.

[Phillycat]

37. I've been here since before you.

I've been posting since 2001, under the name catpower2000 and this one. The 99 Problems story is a debunked lie. Sexism has often been a problem on DU, and one of the most egregious examples is people who don't believe a woman should have the right to choose...people like you.

[The Doctor.]

53. Wow, that's stuffing 15 lbs of BS in a five pound bag!

1) "Sexism" isn't nearly as big a problem as the unfounded perception of sexism on DU. Many people have left because they thought they saw sexism where there was not. Some people are just easily offended if the target of criticism is a woman, and assume that the criticism is gender-based. Yes, I can provide examples, there's even one in the OP.

2) The "99 Problems" lie? What, next you're going to tell us that Obama liked Reagan's policies?


3) Obama "has also made disrespectful gestures aimed at Clinton"? Really? I'm sure you can provide examples :eyes:

Oh, and the "I'll never vote for HIM/HER!!" bullshit could make you a troll, no, I don't care how 'long' you've been here but I'll give the BOTD and assume it makes you;



A child.

[la la]

19. none are acceptable....none. n/t

[Phillycat]

38. Thank you.

[sfam]

22. Sexism is bad, and clearly many times people went over the line, but on other occaisions...

I think there is this tendency to make everything look as bad as it possibly can look. Not every knock against Hillary is automatically sexist. Some CLEARLY are.

I think the Democratic party has done a real disservice to itself by taking huge offense to anything that can be seen as offensive, even if it needs to be twisted in knots to be seen as offensive. Both sides have done this so liberally that the word "overkill" is a vast vast understatement. The sexist charges certainly were part of this, as were the cries of "racism". All this has led to a shouting match where we all take faux offense to everything the other side says, but in the privacy of our own minds, we end up getting right from wrong blurred. The line where something is a fair attack versus a sexist one is incredibly blurry at this point - FAR more blurry than it was at the beginning of the campaign.

Take the David Shuster line. I think we all know that he meant pimped out not in the sense that Chelsea is a whore, but in a more colloquial usage that many people use in daily life, especially in the sales world, for instance. Often this term has nothing to do with someone's sex, or the use of their sex parts, but is more a "taking advantage of" type thing. But again, this ended up almost ending the poor guy's career.

In other cases though, like the probate court comment, or the "take out the garbage" thing, any show of emotion, and so forth, there are clearly sexist responses that are rather gross. Take today's "Hillary Cry" non-event. I DARE anyone to actually watch CNN's interview snippet and say there was anything wrong or calculated about Hillary's response. She didn't cry - she showed emotion when expressing pride in her daughter. This is NOT newsworthy, and the response is clearly sexist.

[Phillycat]

39. I thought the Democratic party's job was

to stand up for minorities, the disenfranchised, the marginalized. At least, that's why I've always voted a straight Democratic ticket, even when it included candidates I didn't like at all. I thought I was voting for the greater good. I thought it was OUR JOB to be offended by things that are offensive.

[sfam]

52. I agree, but when we start using "I take (faux) offense" as a weapon...

we ruin the message. In my opinion, surrogates on both sides have repeatedly done this.

EDIT: So yeah, we should be offended about things that are offensive, but we shouldn't use our potential offense as a weapon any time anything of even slightly questionable merit comes up. We have CONTINUALLY done that this campaign on both sides. So to say, "Gosh, the democratic party is OK with (sexism or racism)" misses the point. We have so muddied the discussion by taking faux offense, and even worse, by the explicit use of code words.

[TexasObserver]

31. everyone is sick of Hillary's playing the victim and playin on sexism

the sexism in this race has been mainly by Hillary and her supporters, who fail to recognize that Hillary is hated because she lacks any sense of dignity or morality, and always plays the victim.

She's an embarrassment to strong women everywhere.

[Phillycat]

34. I'll take that as "These statements are okay with me" from you, then.

[TexasObserver]

43. Take it however you like, but accept that I don't agree with you.

Your candidate lost. Get over it.

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[sniffa]

36. MORE SXEIST BULLSHT

[Phillycat]

40. Thank you for kicking my thread.

[iconicgnom]

42. I think all except the last are blatantly sexist n/t

[CatsDogsBabies]

45. I watched the video

and am thankful that I do not watch teevee news (or very little of it - maybe 5-10 minutes or so a week). I am an Obama supporter and believe that Obama is the better candidate. However, many of the comments in the video were terrible and just plain disgusting. Like I said, I avoid teevee news. I consider myself fortunate to have missed the nonstop replays of Wright as well. Cable news is designed to depress - why watch it?

[Zomby Woof]

46. As we used to post back in the day...

"I agree! nt"

But a modern day "K&R" will do. :kick:

[The Doctor.]

47. I can't help but notice you don't attribute any of the quotes.

"Big news from New Hampshire tonight is...IT CRIES" (referring to Hillary as an "it" after the "crying" controversy in NH)

Let's look at each of these in proper perspective,

"Women won't vote for {him} because he reminds them of their overbearing husbands."
- If a woman said that about the male candidate, would it be sexist? Vaguely perhaps.

"When {he} speaks, women hear 'make me some dinner!'"
- Is that sexist? Sure, I can be convinced of that.

"The one thing we've learned from the Scott Peterson case is that there's a great deal of resentment by men aimed at women."
- I can buy that as 'sexist'.

"The only people for him are the Republican Establishment and white men...white men are a problem, but, you know, we all live with that." *laughs* So if they said that on 'The View', would you find it sexist?

"Doesn't it seem like {his son} is being pimped out?"
"Pimped out is a term applied to men and women without sexist connotations. In this case, the answer is "no, it's not sexist... just rude".

"(he looks like) everyone's first husband standing outside of probate court".
-Well, since it makes the assumption that one sex controls the assets while the other is helpless, then yes, this can be construed as 'sexist'.

"He's trying to run away from this tough, kind of prickish image..."
-Well, they're talking about an image and suggesting he's a 'prick'. If calling a man a 'prick' or 'dick' is sexist, then so is this quote.

"The reason he's a candidate...is because his wife messed around...he didn't get here on her merits."
- That could hold true either way. "Victimhood" is not exclusive to one gender.

"I think someone's going to have to go out there and take him behind the barn."

-Ummm, not even close.


Ok, so a few of those can certainly be construed as 'sexist'. It is true that we still have both sexism and racism in the media (among other things). Is there context missing that would make these less offensive? Doubtful. But the REAL question that matters is this;

Who said these things, and how does this demonstrate that Obama supporters are "sexist"?

Fair enough?

[VotesForWomen]

54. sexism is everywhere. it would be surprising if it *wasn't* in the MSM. nt

[The Doctor.]

58. Precisely. The question is... who said what?

Guess I may have to hunt them out myself.

[Berry Cool]

55. Still pimping (and I do mean pimping) this stupid video?

That attempts to make Keith Olbermann look like the worst sexist on television, when he says absolutely nothing in it that could possibly be misconstrued as sexist by anyone but a frothing lunatic Hillary supporter looking for offense in every flower and tree?

I don't even care that I'm K'ing this, because I want people to see what idiocy this thing was produced with. It equates serious, intelligent criticism with true hateful and biased garbage from the conservative right, tarring it all with the brush of sexism.

It was created BY nonthinkers, FOR nonthinkers. If you're female, you're not SUPPOSED to think in reaction to it. You're just supposed to emote.

Fortunately, some of us can still think. And we see right through it.

[sfam]

59. Similar to Shuster's use of pimping, this use has no sexist connotation...

This is an example of what I was saying in my post above - both campaigns have worked hard to "take offense" at things that need not have had any outcry. When you do this consistently, it completely muddies the discussion on what is or isn't sexism or racism.

[Manifestor_of_Light]

56. Lots of sexist bullcrap here.

Sexism is still acceptable, out in the open. Lots of men out there that are scared to death of losing their testes if they wash a dish or sweep the floor (viz. Wife Swap).

Racism is hidden, in most parts of the country. Still there, but people won't admit to it. Black against white or white against black, either one.

[sfam]

60. Good thing "Men losing their testes" isn't sexist...nt