No mercy.

[MadHound]

It has been obvious for a few weeks now that Obama is going to be the nominee, at least obvious to everybody except for Hillary and her supporters. Thus there has been a movement going on to start the healing process, bringing the party back together for the fall campaign.

Likewise there's been a subtle movement to "be nice to Hillary and her supporters" all in the name of healing. That's all nice and good, except for one thing. Hillary and her supporters are continuing to slam Obama on a daily basis. Threats about voting for McCain, trying to perpetuate rules committee shenanigans, slamming Obama on blogs and chat boards, organizing faux astroturf protests, trying to blackmail Obama into giving Hillary the VP spot, another permutation of voodoo math trying to make the "popular vote" argument, moving the goalposts, time and again(2209 delegates for a win, :wtf:), more racist attacks, on and on it goes, the attacks, the bullshit, the full Hillary smear machine.

And yet we're supposed to play nicey-nice because these are fellow Democrats? Screw that! Sorry, but Hillary and her supporters can, and will try, to do as much damage as possible to Obama, and no mercy should be shown. This has degenerated into a street fight, and frankly in any sort of serious street fight, you continue to knock you opponent down every single time they get up, otherwise they're going to pull a knife and backstab you if you show mercy and try to walk away.

If Hillary and her supporters want people to stop attacking her, then Hillary needs to do the following things, namely drop out of the race, endorse Obama, and tell her followers that it is over and that we all need to unite behind the nominee. Her supporters need to drop all the bullshit attacks, take down their little blogs, and come together behind the nominee. Until that happens, I say no mercy. Showing mercy at this point only allows Hillary and her supporters to continue their divisive bullshit unopposed.

[MonkeyFunk]

1. ah, the sweet stench of unity!

[SoonerPride]

3. Hillary will endorse Obama

Thank you for your support

[casus belli]

110. But will her supporters be on board with that...

that's the magic question. I think a decent number of them have created such a hatred for the guy in their mind during ther primary that it will be very hard for them to reconcile that, even in light of what's at stake.

[MadHound]

5. You want unity, then let Hillary put a stop to her campaign,

Endorse Obama, and tell her supporters to get in line.

You can't have unity when Hillary and her supporters are still launching racist attacks, bullshit attacks, trying to bend the rules for Hillary's own good, slamming Obama and his supporters, etc. etc.

You want unity, then have Hillary and her supporters get behind the Democratic nominee rather than attacking him and his supporters. She lost pal, and it isn't the job of Obama and his supporters to try and coddle or sweet talk Hillary's supporters into supporting the Democratic nominee. It is their responsibility to fall in line and aid the entire party in winning this fall. As the supporter of many marginalized candidates over the years, I've had to do this time and again for the good of the party. It's about damn time that Hillary and her supporters did the same thing.

[nxylas]

62. I don't believe Hillary has anything to do with most of it

I think that things like "Clinton Supporters Count Too" are REPUBLICAN initiatives, pure and simple, offshoots of Operation Chaos.

[MindMatter]

102. What?

Hillary is still running. Just this morning, she repeated her line about how she's the better candidate and she intends to keep fighting to the bitter end.

It is all about Hillary. Sure there is some Republican meddling, but none of that would be possible without Clinton's continuing vanity parade.

You may be right, though. If she had any intention of working toward a united party, she would not be acting this way. She will probably end up in Lieberman-land, which is to say, Republican.

This will be over mathematically by Wednesday morning, so I hope she enjoys the final 2 days of her spectacle of narcissism.

[dchill]

105. Then you believe wrong.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6007158&mesg_id=6007334

:eyes:

[nxylas]

107. Got a "missing topic" message when I clicked that link

But OK, I was just trying to be charitable, take the high road and all that.

[dchill]

108. That response was in rebuttal to an OP...

that got TS'ed on the same day he/she joined (On The Radio.) The response was a transcript of Hillary's message to "her" bloggers.

[dchill]

119. Have you reconsidered your opinion yet...

that Hillary had nothing to do with "most of it?" Just wondering.

[nxylas]

123. Err...yeah

I didn't know about that conference call when I wrote that. I guess I was trying to believe the best about her in the name of party unity. I'm trying really hard to give Senator Clinton the benefit of every doubt, but she doesn't exactly make it easy.

[dchill]

135. For me, she doesn't even make it possible.

I've had a deep mistrust of her for a long time. Anyway, was just wondering.
:hi:

[ekwhite]

132. Her campaign will be over in 2 weeks and 3 days.

Let's wait until then. Her campaign has already stopped their attacks on Obama. It will calm down soon enough.

[K Gardner]

6. Stop memeing "unity" when you and your crew are still here SLAMMING the presumptive nominee. As

hypocritical as Hillary's conference call and talking points for bloggers.

[MonkeyFunk]

104. I don't slam him

and butch up and take it. You guys have been pushing the most egregious lies and smears against Clinton for months. If you're gonna play as dirty as you guys have, it's just childish to whine when somebody criticizes Obama.

[Lerkfish]

39. I've never seen you once make a unity-intentional post

so, to complain about "unity" is the height of hypocrisy, for you.

[JackORoses]

113. ewww, the fetid odor of an unwashed monkey

[anigbrowl]

120. Get lost, hypocrite.

[intaglio]

141. and it's reply's like yours

that make everything others try to do pointless.

Everytime people try to mend fences or calm things down people like you post to stir up trouble.

[The Magistrate]

2. Quite The Contrary, Sir: Magnanimity Becomes A Victor, And Eases Peace and Makes It Firm

The metaphor of an alley fight is entertaining, but should not be mistaken for reality.

[K Gardner]

7. I'm really tired of hearing a moderator CONDONE the attacks on Obama that continue here. That's what

you just did.

[Ichingcarpenter]

21. These attack points are coming from the Hillary campaign

through false front operations.

[KAZ]

25. You and me both.

[The Magistrate]

27. If You Say So, Ma'am....

[tabasco]

79. Me too.

No more dinero until they disallow the sham Democratic splinter group from attacking the nominee.

ENOUGH! of the filthy, gutter, "kitchen sink" campaign.

[MadHound]

8. Meanwhile as we're being magnanimous,

Hillary and her supporters are continuing to stick the knife in on a daily basis. I would love to be magnanimous, I was looking forward to it after the IN/NC primary's, since it is obvious who the nominee is. But instead, Hillary and her supporters have taken it to a whole other level with their racists attacks, trying to hold the party hostage, bend and break the rules, and in general carry on the Hillary campaign in one of its most sleaziest incarnations.

When one is being magnanimous to a devious opponent, one usually winds up with a knife in the back for your trouble. Sorry, but I don't want to see that happen.

[geek tragedy]

10. Hillary is NOT attacking Obama.

Only a few remaining paranoid holdouts are.

[Divernan]

18. Wow! You just called Bill Clinton a paranoid holdout! Very good!

[MadHound]

20. I suppose her comments last week before the WV primary don't count

I suppose her upcoming assault(backed by her supporters) on the DNC rules committee doesn't count. Or her new memes, that Obama needs 2010 delegates to win, or that Hillary is more qualified since according to Hillary-math, she's ahead in the popular vote and should have the nomination based on that metric.

Hillary is still carrying on her campaign, she's still launching kitchen sink, low rent attacks("hard working Americans, white Americans") Until she puts a stop to this madness, no mercy.

[geek tragedy]

37. She needs to justify staying in the race.

Relax, she's toast.

[Hutzpa]

100. 'PARANOID HOLDOUTS' are what they call in Iraq

EXTREMIST, TERRORIST, or FACTION FIGHTERS these folks have become
a thorn in the allied forces flesh and we definitely DO NOT want
this to fall into that....we all know the consequences from that
debacle in Iraq.

[The Magistrate]

19. It Is Always Instructive, Sir, To Pause And See The View From The Other Side Of The Hill

The ardent supporters of Sen. Clinton consider that Sen. Obama has run an underhanded campaign employing racial politics, and that their candidate has been beset with institutionalized sexist prejudice of breath-taking virulence. Whether their description is accurate, or your's is, is beside the point, since what people believe is what they act upon. In my view, put bluntly, both are accurate in some degree. It is worth remembering, in assessing deviousness, that Sen Obama enjoys the solid support of the Daley machine here in Chicago, and if one were to pursue 'alley fight' metaphors, that is a crew that knows the use of a garbage can lid and stray half-brick....

[Divernan]

29. Pray tell, sirrah! Do enlighten us forelock tugging serfs with details of , as you so preciously

put it, Senator Obama's "underhanded campaign employing racial politics".

You did state that this claim was, in your perspective , "accurate in some degree".

We wait with baited breath!

[The Magistrate]

41. Are You At All Familiar With Politics Here In Chicago, Ma'am?

The Democratic Party holds an absolute monopoly, and so political life consists of factions within the party. These are openly and unabashedly racial, with a sort of swing constituency usually dubbed "lakefront liberals'. The Daley machine, though rooted in the white faction, draws figures from all the racial factions into a coalition that can hobble any other element on a city-wide basis. This is the milieu in which Mr. Axelrod came up, and learnt his trade. He employs a sort of judo, that works very well. One presents oneself pre-emptively as the victim of certain lines of attack that are certain to rally the necessary faction to a candidate's defense. That was certainly done by Sen. Obama's campaign in the early stages of the contest.

[Divernan]

58. Intimately so, having grown up in a Chicago suburb and visiting there monthly

for the past decade to see friends and family. Actually, there's a likeness of my grandfather in the Museum of Science and Industry. The Looking Glass Theater, the wonderful Chicago Art Institute, Buckingham Fountain, Little Italy, Chinatown, Greek Town, The Taste of Chicago, the jazz joints, the Lincoln Park Zoo, the Chicago Trib's annual publication of that poignant painting of Indian Summer, the the green dye in the river on St. Patrick's Day, etc. - love it all. Oh, and I forgot the world's best chocolates - Fannie May! Your formal manner of communication smacks to me of the Hyde Park/University of Chicago ambiance, not that of the Gold Coast. Now, having established my Chicagoland creds, I return to my request that you detail how the Obama campaign was racist. What the Daley machine has done for decades is not the issue, but rather, what specific statements/actions YOU claim the Obama campaign has done.

What I have observed the Obama campaign do is to respond quickly and strongly to Bill Clinton's snide, not-subtle-enough racist statements.

[The Magistrate]

64. Your Last Sentence, Sir, Reveals The Skill And Art Involved....

It is hardly a criticism, in my view, that a campaign is skilled at infighting and manipulation of the sort that affronts 'good government' types: rather. it is praise, and one good reason to consider the prospects of a general election campaign by Sen. Obama excellent.

[Divernan]

69. First you call me Ma'am; then you call me Sir!

You can call me Officer of the Court - that would be correct.

And speak for yourself as to being "affronted" by Obama's timely response to Bill Clinton's playing of the race cards.

[The Magistrate]

70. My Apologies, Ma'am

Juggling several items at once on occasion over-taxes my old brain....

[Divernan]

73. Apology accepted.

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

59. I'm listening...

You're still one step away. Where/what was the pre-emptive victimization in the early going?

Let's nail this baby down.

[11 Bravo]

115. Unless your breath is of a sufficient foulness to attract fish ...

you mean "bated" breath.

[grantcart]

76. The other side of the hill is that when McCain become the real nominee of the

party the Republicans fell in line and started working on the GE.

We all know who the nominee is and to continue to allow fraticidal attacks on our nominee after that point has been established is stupid.

The best predictors of outcomes in contests is the 'wisdom of crowds' and Intrade's record is the best.

Today McCain is at 94.9 and Obama is at 92.0 meaning that the 'smart money' believes that Hillary Clinton has the same chance of winning the nomination as McCain does at losing the Republican nomination.


It is Clinton's campaign that dictates the tone, if they are saying "not so fast" that they still are intent on wiping out a 180 delegate lead (of both super and pledged delegates) then there is no alternative but to continue the campaign to show that the Clinton campaign has flatlined.


There are two great stories in this campaign 1) Obama came from now where and

2) the Clinton camapign started with 45% of the vote and ended with 45% of the vote - and despite not being able to raise her numbers an inch above what it was in the last quarter of 2007 she has the temerity of wanting to take this to the convention.

These aren't sides these are the facts.

[The Magistrate]

81. Personally, Sir, You Could Not Even Get Me To Take A Thirteen To One Wager On Sen. Clinton Today

[grantcart]

91. The only thing that the last two months has done is to diminish Obama

And that is what Clinton's attacks on the DNC and the threats on MI and FL and all Clinton's campaigniing is about - to diminish Obama enough that he has to pick her for the General. Knowing that they cannot move their numbers their only hope is to destroy Obama's.

Is there any other side to that? Shall we simply wait until they launch a floor fight to secure HRC position on the ticket?

We are watching political extortion in slow motion.

[Divernan]

15. You missed the OP's point - no magnanimity until AFTER you HRC supporters admit Obama's the victor

The prerequisite for peace is that the loser admits defeat and stops attacking. "Ya know," as your heroine likes to preface her comments, when the losing side LAYS DOWN THEIR WEAPONS, as in blog attacks, protest gatherings, promises to vote for McCain, etc.

[The Magistrate]

23. You Seem To Mistake Me For An Opponent, Ma'am

My view has been, and remains, that both these two are excellent champions for the Party, that each would be an excellent candidate and a great President, and that there is very little difference between them on issues of substance, though there are great differences in style. These latter factors, indeed, account for much of the vitriol, since it is necessary to exaggerate small differences or else people will pay no more attention to them than they naturally deserve.

"The surest way of weakening an opponent's resolve is to leave open a path for retreat."

[TexasObserver]

17. In politics, the standard is well known. First the loser concedes, then the winner is magnanimous.

That is what is missing here. There has been no concession by Camp Hillary. There has been no suspension of the attacks on our nominee. Until Hillary concedes properly and instructs her supporters to get behind the Democratic nominee, they should not be heard to complain about a lack of magnanimity.

This is the law of the jungle. The loser must roll over and show submission if the attack by the winner is to stop. As long as they're still growling and showing their teeth, their ass kicking will continue unabated.

They must relent, and that is how it has always been in fights for the nomination. The loser must cry "Uncle" and submit, or continue getting a beatdown.

[The Magistrate]

26. You Will Have Noticed, Sir, In The Actual Campaign Of Sen. Obama

There is already a lessening of attacks against Sen. Clinton, and overtures made towards her supporters. The professionals know what they have to do.

[TexasObserver]

46. That is true of the campaign, but this is a forum of supporters.

The law frowns on breaching plaintiffs. Until these plaintiffs relent with their hideous attacks on Obama, they can't expect an olive branch and a back massage for their efforts. Unruly children must first acknowledge their misconduct. Then mercy follows.

The transcript of Mrs. Clinton's discussion with favorable bloggers reveals a continuing campaign by her that is destructive. This forum will soon require those who are attacking Obama to either knock it off or leave. That is as it should be. If they can't get on board, they need to get on down the road to a venue where hating the nominee is acceptable.

The sad reality is that Hillary's tiny band of supporters here have been at war with everyone else here for the past 18 months. They don't fit in because they aren't progressives, they're Hillary supporters. They don't share the ideals of most progressives at DU or in the Democratic party. They're Hillary fans, not progressives who follow a set of progressive ideals. War? Great. Cluster bombs? No problemo. Insurance companies running health care? Wonderful.

She simply has no real progressive support here, and that is something she has earned on her own, unlike all her other "accomplishments."

[The Magistrate]

51. Two Points, Sir

Much as we all like and enjoy the place, a forum like this does not weigh very heavy in the pattern of a national campaign involving millions of voters.

We could spend hours quibbling over what 'progressives' might actually mean, and it seems to me a harsh and unsustainable charge that Sen. Clinton's supporters here are not 'progressives', and that she has no support among 'progressives'. Many of her supporters here certainly consider themselves liberals and progressives, and there are many at large in the land who would consider them radical Reds....

[TexasObserver]

56. On this we agree, with my qualifiers.

Nothing said here makes a bit of difference in the greater scheme of this election. I do not see this as a place to shape thought, but rather, a gathering place of generally like minded individuals, who can converse freely about a topic of their liking. It's just talk, and the people here choose to enter and sustain each conversation.

In that sense, I see this as a cyber bar, where people gather all hours of the day and night, to nurse their favorite beverage and talk with those they love or hate. As in such a bar, some need to find stringent disagreements, and would be disappointed if they did not find such conflicts. Others are looking for conversations with others who reinforce by agreement their opinions.

Given that reality, is not inevitable that the pro and anti Hillary posters who are most emotionally invested will always find each other and always fight to the death, metaphorically speaking? Aren't both sides doing it because they want to be doing it?

Everyone tires of the dog fight at their own pace, and what we see now are the last brawlers in a brawl that is winding down. Does it really matter whether anyone is magnanimous here? When the victor is declared, in my view, that is the time for magnanimity, and it is proper to expect it once the fight has been called. As long as Hillary Tyson is still biting ears, however, she has to expect to continue taking her beating.

[The Magistrate]

67. Fair Enough, Sir

And were she foolish enough to ask me for advice, it would be to concede, and back-date it to shortly after the Indiana and North Carolina primaries....

[TexasObserver]

80. That would be my advice to her, too, if asked.

I actually do understand her desire to see it through the last primary contest, and don't resent that. I resent what I consider the shots she has taken the past month or so that seem to be a little too GOP in their manner and content. I've spent a lifetime defending the Democratic wing of the Democratic party from those on the right who too often look and sound like Republican Lite.

My antipathy for Democrats who help Republicans goes back to John Connolly and Allan Shrivers.

[The Magistrate]

83. Now There Are Two Blasts From the Past, Sir....

A prime pair to illustrate the Northern belief that there are some damned odd things that have been called Democrats down your way....

[TexasObserver]

96. I had the pleasure of lobbying Allan Shivers when he was on the UT board of regents.

Back in the mid 1970s, three members of the UT board of regents were Ed Clark, Lady Bird Johnson, and Allan Shivers. I was in my third year of law school at UT, worked for a state senator, and wanted to lobby the board of regents for some things on behalf of the law school. The Speaker's Executive Assistant got me in to see those three board members, and they voted our way after my impassioned lobbying.

Of course, I always opposed Allan Shivers because he was such a Dixiecrat, but he didn't know that. I was hanging with Mark White in those days, and he was Dolph Briscoe's Secretary of State back then.

You cannot fathom the battle the Texas Dirty Thirty had in the early to mid 1970s fighting against an establishment controlled state Democratic party. It was the birth of the era that produced Ann Richards, also an old and dear friend from those days, may she rest in peace. Molly Ivins was also a fixture, may she also RIP. Hanging out at Scholz Beer Garten was the place to be! Or Barton Pool. Or Hamilton Pool. Or tubing down the Guadalupe. Or the Comal.

[dchill]

109. "concede, and back-date it..."

Now that would be a nice trick!

[SwampG8r]

92. more to do with

her irrelevancy IMO
if she was a relevant threat obama would address her but he knows her ship has sailed without her
and has moved to GE mode
hillarys supporters refuse to aid the transition and to expect me to "make nice"with any of them while they continue to lie and steal is too much to ask

[MethuenProgressive]

142. Is this a joke? "There is already a lessening of attacks against Sen. Clinton"

That's baloney, Sir.

[SwampG8r]

89. well when shes gone and admits her defeat

then we will be magnanimous
until then its on til the end
and she decides when the end is
to ask folks to not defend during an attack is a little silly

[slinkerwink]

101. Exactly. It is up to us to be magnamious.

[Name removed]

137. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Forkboy]

4. It's not the majority of Hillary's supporters, just a small, vocal group that can't let go yet.

I have no quarrel with the vast majority of her supporters. I like too many of them to lump them in with the small gang of shit stirrers.

[MadHound]

11. That is why I think that Hillary herself come out and blast these people

Better yet, suspend her campaign and endorse Obama. I think that would send a signal to even the most rabid Hillary supporter that they need to shut up and fall in line. But Hillary isn't doing this, instead she's launching divisive attacks herself and her supporters are following her example.

[K Gardner]

22. AND .. holding conference calls that enforce and encourage their delusion and disruption.

[geek tragedy]

9. Ignore the few random hateful trolls.

They are NOT representative of Clinton supporters.

[Yael]

12. He is winning because he isn't stooping to her level

We need to take his lead on this.

I say this as one of the worst offenders -- but it is time to rise above it.

[dorkulon]

13. Yeah, that'll shut em up.

:eyes:

[JNelson6563]

14. That's the thing that gets me

On the internets where I participate I see time and time again a Hillary supporter dragging a cross about because they and their candidate are so persecuted and yet a post cannot mention Obama/Obama supporters without lots of slams (either blatant or--they like to think--subtle).

I haven't participated in shit-flinging with either side, seen plenty from both but man, it is gettin gout of hand. I demand you be nice to me/my candidate followed with slam for the opposition. Like naming a dong "Stay". "Here Stay! Come here Stay!"

Oy.

Julie

[rug]

16. Street fight? No mercy? Who the fuck are you, Michael Jackson?

[MadHound]

24. No, having grown up in a rough neighborhood,

Both politically and literally, I know all about street fights, and have the scars to show for it.

At least I'm being more generous than the bikers I've hung with, they would continue to kick you while you're down. All I'm doing is asking for Hillary's concession in the overwhelming face of the obvious.

[rug]

28. Well go back to your bikers, scars, rough neighborhood and let Democrats finish the primary.

There is no shortage of tough guys in this party. On either side.

[MadHound]

30. Thanks, but I'll stick with the party here

Whether you like it or not. Plenty of assholes within the party that need to be dealt with.

[rug]

32. I agree. Starting with this thread.

[MadHound]

35. LOL, you are so cute when you get all mad and everything

What, you're going to get all "Bad" on me, or what?

[rug]

36. Beat it.

And not your usual object.

[MadHound]

72. Wow, more Michael Jackson references eh?

What's with the MJ obsession this morning? :rofl:

[rug]

75. You remind me of him.

Faux hood.

[MadHound]

87. LOL, nothing faux about it

But then again, getting into that would mean admitting to various things that are better left in the past.

Talk to me after you've lived in drive by territory, had your house and car shot up, dealt with violent intruders in the middle of the night, etc. etc. Then we can see just how faux my experience is.

[rug]

97. Tell me all about it. I love internet stories.

[SwampG8r]

93. michael was in a car wreck this morning

he was on rodeo drive and saw a sign
"boys pants half off" and he drove into a hydrant

[butterfly77]

31. Recommended...

[DU GrovelBot]

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[Skinner]

34. You don't get it. The reason to be nice is not because they are fellow Democrats.

The reason to be nice is because you want Obama to win the General Election. And you will need Clinton supporters to do that.

There isn't any need to attack Senator Clinton or her supporters anymore. For all intents and purposes, she has lost. Take a cue from Senator Obama, and be the better person. Threads like this only give Clinton supporters an excuse to continue their bad behavior.

[dorkulon]

40. Here here!

Letting your pride and anger get the best of you is exactly what the problem is here.

[MadHound]

42. I've seen what happens to Obama supporters who try to bridge that divide around here

They get their asses handed to them. Obama himself is trying to rise above the fray, yet Hillary is still hanging on like a rabid pitbull, launching kitchen sink attacks, moving the goalposts, mangling the metrics, etc.

One can put forth the hand of friendship, but how many times does that hand have to get slapped before you realize that the person opposing you wants to be your friend? Look at the boards, both here on DU and around the internet. Hillary's supporters are no more willing to back down than Hillary is, and they're going to continue their attacks for as long as Hillary's in the race. That is why it is vital for the healing of this party that Hillary drops out and endorses Obama, to send a message to her supporters.

But until she does that, she and her supporters are going to continue their attacks, and frankly I don't think that it is a good policy to try and be friendly when your opponent is continuing their attack. Funny that way I guess, but it has kept me out of trouble, both politically and literally, on more than one occasion.

[Skinner]

50. With all due respect, why do you even care?

So what if a few disgruntled partisans say mean things on the Internet? Are your feelings that easily hurt?

Again: Senator Clinton has almost certainly lost. It doesn't matter what they say now. Just brush it off.

[MadHound]

53. The trouble is it isn't "a few disgruntled partisans" on the internet

We're seeing the emergence of organized groups of Hillary supporters now advocating voting Hillary third party, or for McCain, or to disrupt the rules committee, or disrupt the convention, whatever, whenever, to try and secure the nomination. Hillary doesn't dissuade these movements, and with her ongoing kitchen sink strategy she actually encourages them.

You should know by now that my skin is thick, and I don't give a damn about attacks on myself. What I do give a damn about is watching the best chance the Democratic party has had in thirty plus years pissed away, all sacrificed on the alter of Hillary's greed, ambition and vanity.

This is why she needs to hang it up now, endorse Obama, and get her supporters in line.

[Skinner]

55. And your chest-thumping threats of "no mercy" will dissuade them from that course, how?

You aren't giving Clinton supporters any reason to back off. Why on earth would they want to associate themselves with this?

How about spreading a little bit of that famous Obama hope?

[MadHound]

61. Frankly Clinton supporters aren't giving me any reason to back off!

I come on this board every day and see the nasty attack dog threads and posts put up by the Hillary supporters. I read in the media about Hillary's latest latest bullshit attack. I see around the net, and in the reality based world, these ongoing attacks by Hillary and her supporters in an effort to somehow snatch out a victory, and frankly I see no reason to back off. Hope is a great, grand and wonderful thing, but hoping your opponent will play nice if you play nice is frankly a surefire way to get your ass handed to you, even this late in the game.

When Hillary drops out and endorses Obama, reins in her supporters, then I will back off. Not until then.

[Skinner]

71. Now we're going in circles.

Clinton supporters don't need to give you a reason to back off. You already have one: Your candidate won.

Speaking of backing off, I am going to back off now because my point has been made repeatedly, and there is no need to repeat myself again. Those who care more about winning the General Election than about getting revenge should not have much difficulty grasping my point.

[PassingFair]

117. There's a full stop in that "circle". Clinton says SHE'S in the lead.

"It's the MAP, not the MATH".

She EXPLICITLY sent her bloggers forth
to propagate the bullshit.

[Divernan]

77. I agree with you MadHound - particularly since this could continue for months!

As I tried to make the point to Skinner, below, it's time for that one week of let-it-all-out frustration from the losers. If I knew they'd either have to shut up in one week, or be tombstoned, it would be a LOT easier to be magnanimous. As it is, they continue to do damage to the Democratic party, to Senator Obama, to the Dems' chances in the GE, and collateral damage, as well, to all the Dems "down-ticket" in November.

[SwampG8r]

94. i gotta agree

give them the week and then cut them off

[Lochloosa]

60. ...

[tabasco]

86. So, why not allow republicans to post at DU?

They're just partisans, after all. If they say mean things about Democrats, what's the big deal?

[K Gardner]

95. Evidently it matters enough for Hillary to host a Call with her Bloggers.. giving them attack points

and other delusional disruptions.. telling them to repeat it over and over and over to influence the "blogosphere and beyond" (VERBATIM). And certainly you cannot deny that forums such as this ARE influencial and those talking points DO make their way outward. It is naieve to think they do not.

As such, what is happening here is appeasement of the Republicans by attacking McCains opponent (Obama) at Hillary's behest.

And now we are told it "might fizzle out by July". JULY?? Yet we are disallowed of talking about the GE in General Discussion, unless we don't mention Obama's name. That leaves here HERE, where RW attacks are posted on the nominee daily and other conversations are disrupted.

Twenty years working on Democratic campaigns.. never seen anything like this, ever.

[rodeodance]

139. Bully school-yard name-calling of Hillary "rabid pitbull,"!! And you have the nerve

to lecture Hillary and her supporters!!

[The Magistrate]

43. Well Said, Sir!

[Divernan]

65. If, as you say, "for all intents and purposes, she has lost", why haven't you started the clock

on the week's interim for both sides to vent, and then unite behind Obama, make nice or be banned from DU?

I think "for all intents and purposes" logically includes DU's stated purpose to unite behind Obama, and that would mean deleting/banning any and all anti-Obama posts/threads.

And to the extent HRC, WJC and or their surrogates continue to attack the DNC or Obama, it would be fair for DUers to post and discuss stories re such attacks.

[jgraz]

116. I have to agree with this. The sniping will subside when you start the clock

Until then, we have a "no end in sight" situation that is incredibly frustrating.

[Perry Logan]

38. Hence, the ever-growing "Fuck Obama" movement.

"There seems to be a movement afoot by many thousands of Hillary Clinton supporters to either vote for John McCain, another presidential candidate, write Hillary’s name in, not vote for president at all, or simply stay home on election night if Hillary Clinton is not the Democratic nominee for president.

There is ample proof of this movement throughout the Internet on pro-Hillary Clinton sites and other sites where comments can be made. These Clinton supporters usually give several reasons for their adamant refusal to fall in line behind Barack Obama as the presumptive Democratic nominee - and I haven’t seen one of those reasons being because Obama is black (actually he isn’t really African-American, but instead 50% white, 43.25% Arabic and 6.25% African Negro . 12.5% is the legal threshold one must prove to claim racial status under the law).

Many of these Hillary supporters are women who firmly believe that they have been shafted by Obama and his supporters throughout the campaign. They maintain that the Obama campaign, many pro-Obama news organizations, along with many of his supporters, have overtly been sexist toward them and their candidate.

Other Hillary supporters say that Obama has run an unfair, race-baiting, nasty campaign against their candidate, and say the evidence for this charge is clear. One of their chief complaints revolves around Obama’s refusal to work out a solution to seat both Michigan and Florida delegates, or even allow a re-vote by the two states so that every vote can count.
http://777denny.wordpress.com/2008/05/17/hillary-clinton-supporters-are-mad-as-heck-and-are-refusing-to-fall-quietly-in-line-behind-obama/

"Many others say that because of his associations with terrorists and racists, along with his previous drug use and his so-called eager willingness to to deal with rogue nations, that he is unfit to become commander-in-chief. They say Obama is not very patriotic and complain that his wife isn’t very proud of her country. They also claim that Obama is a corrupt liar and a complete fraud.
http://www.commentarymagazine.com/blogs/index.php/rubin/6261

[MadHound]

44. Thanks for proving my point

More bullshit attacks from whiners and losers who should know better, but rather than sucking it up and saying that the better person won, they're going to continue fighting, no matter what.

Are you part of this group, are you going to go and vote for McCain in the general?

It is because of bullshit like this that Hillary needs to drop out and endorse Obama. Her continued campaign is only promoting divisiveness and harming the party.

[Name removed]

48. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[The Magistrate]

49. This Will Fizzle Out, Sir, By July

The more magnanimously SEn. Obama and his supporters behave, the quicker it will dwindle.

People do not think straight when their blood is up, and come back themselves when they have calmed down. People who try and press a fight without an active opponent begin to feel themselves ridiculous, and find other outlets for their energies.

[dorktv]

45. In other words: Do exactly as we ordered or else!

Y'all might want to rethink that.

[MadHound]

47. No, just asking Hillary and her supporters to acknowledge reality

That Obama is the nominee, and that further attacks on him is simply sowing divisiveness and harming the party. You can't very well have party unity and healing when one side is continuing to throw the kitchen sink on a daily basis.

[dorktv]

52. Oh the convention was held and he was nominated after a ballot vote?

No? Then how can Senator Obama be the nominee?

UNTIL ALL THE VOTES ARE CAST AND THE CONVENTION OCCURS WITH A BALLOT-NO ONE AND I DO MEAN NO ONE IS THE DEMOCRATIC NOMINEE FOR THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA PRESIDENT.

What we have here is a PROBABLE AND VERY VERY LIKELY nominee. We do not have an actual nominee. There are still contests to be had, votes to be cast and counted and neither candidate has won the requisite 2,026 pledged delegates or pledged and super delegates. Until one drops out or we have the convention, there is NO ACTUAL nominee. There just is a PROBABLE NOMINEE.

That is what drives the Clinton supporters (and the people who just want to see this properly played out) to be so "divisive," YOU and a lot of your fellow Obama supporters are trying to force what YOU want onto them. And since when does anyone like being forced into doing something? Especially when they have the free will to do what they want?

[MadHound]

54. Another Hilary supporter who can't do the math

By every single metric, Obama has the nomination sewn up. The fact that neither you nor Hillary can bring yourselves to acknowledge this reality continues to drive the kitchen sink attacks launched at Obama on a daily basis. But while Hillary and her supporters try to change the rules, rework the metrics and move the goalposts, in the name of healing you want Obama and especially his supporters to play nicey-nice with you because after all, as many of you state, the primary race is over, Obama won, and there's no need to be attacking Hillary or her supporters anymore. Lovely circular logic there pal, but it doesn't fly. That is why I'm saying no mercy until Hillary drops her campaign and endorses Obama. Because while on the one hand Hillary and her supporters will plea for mercy and generosity on the part of the Obama campaign, on the other hand Hillary and supporters are continuing to attack. You can't have it both ways, sorry.

[dorktv]

57. *sighs* I do not know why anyone even bothers talking to Obama supporters

You just want an excuse to hate anyone who does not agree with you that a person without the requisite number of delegates (super or otherwise) is the nominee.

[MadHound]

66. I have no personal hate for you,

I just want you, and Hillary, and the rest of her supporters to realize a few mathematical realities. Instead of doing that however, Hillary and her supporters continue sowing divisiveness within the party with their kitchen sink attacks, threats, etc. etc.

[CakeGrrl]

78. I have to agree with the "brush it off" approach

I am a staunch Obama supporter.

I tried to appeal yesterday on a thread that pretty much assured Clinton supporters that they'd calm down and see reason that that really wasn't a good approach at this point in time. Probably ever.

You have to realize that Hillary is still pumping up her impassioned supporters with the idea that they could pull this out, however much voodoo or hocus pocus or outright Rovian trickery that might entail.

But she's still in it. And any calls to stop their fight and rally behind Obama will be met with fierce, highly-charged resistance. Would you expect otherwise after all that's happened?

So for my part, I'm going to work hard not to participate in threads encouraging Clinton supporters to splinter off and vote for McCain. I won't respond to threads that issue warnings that we had better treat that Clinton supporter better "or else". I won't jump on the bandwagon of threads that argue "Clinton lost; get over it."

Anyone who expects immediate capitulation from either side is dreaming.

The best thing I think I can do is simply not respond. And that means no posts. Not even the incendiary "Let it sink", which simply gets people's blood up all over again.

It's very hard for egos to stand down on message boards and not be heard. It's hard not to weigh in with an opinion or try to influence. But I think at this point, the best we can do in the face of anti-Obama threats and rhetoric is to simply let those threads die of their own lack of oxygen as the OPs preach to their own echo chamber choir.

[dorktv]

82. Okay, I was wrong and admit it, there are some supporters of the

LIKELY nominee with sense! yay you! :hug:

[SwampG8r]

98. this i can agree with

but it would be nice to see some granite pizzas handed out to anyone who posts anything organizing voters for or encouraging the election of mccain

like reply #38

[dorktv]

84. *snorts* I do not think you have any understanding of what is going on in the

mind of anyone who supports the Junior Senator from New York.

Or the people who find being ordered to support someone who has not had the requisite number of delegates annoying.

I am NOT a Clinton supporter. I am a brokered Convention supporter. :D

[Skittles]

63. will y'all EVER stop whining?

by "y'all" I mean ALL of you - the Obama and the HRC folk. GET OVER YOURSELVES!!!!!!!!

[MadHound]

68. Sure, soon as Hillary drops out, acknowledges reality, and endorses Obama

Until then, I suppose you're going to have KICK MY ASS!:evilgrin:

[The Magistrate]

74. Many Of The People Who Post Those Threads Here, Sir

Conceive themselves to be doing it response to hate and vitriol directed at them and their candidate in this forum. Surely you will not deny there are such threads posted here by supporters of Sen. Obama?

[MadHound]

85. Yes, but a couple of points

First of all, I also noted that after the IN/NC primary, when virtually everybody was acknowledging that Obama had the nomination, most of the Obama folks backed off, throttled down, tried to get the healing started. And time and again the Hillary supporters around here would have none of it, wanting to continue to rip and shred and stir the shit.

Secondly, these supporters, some of them, are now threatening to carry their fight beyond the primary, voting either for Hillary as a write in, third party, or voting for McCain. Hillary is doing nothing to stop this madness, and it is hurting the party.

Sorry, but I don't believe in bringing an olive branch to a knife fight(unless it is a really big branch).

[The Magistrate]

88. Then My Advice, Sir, Is That Really Big Branch....

As is often the case, it would seem our difference are less than meets the eye....

[AZSlacker]

90. It seems that what we have here is a self reinforcing dynamic

The harder one side pushes, the harder the other side pushes, and on and on it goes. Until one side decides to be "the bigger person" and stop pushing, the longer it will go on.

[Hutzpa]

99. No Mercy indeed.....

until the numerous posts of Obama bashing and threatening remarks of
supporting McCain stops, I say 'NO MERCY'

They are becoming over bearing and the abuse....ghosh, there is so much
we can take from them. We have to fight back and that we shall do, Obama
don't have to get involved, we will and should take care of this ourselves
until they (Clinton supporters) decide to stop this macabre.

Excellent post MadHound!!


:thumbsup:

[MindMatter]

103. I got a nice collection of ingore-bots from this thread

Thank you for helping me clean up the garbage around here. Now that I have about 100 of these freepers and DINOs on ignore, there is a whole lot less junk.

Anybody who isn't talking about how DEMOCRATS win in November goes straight to my ignore list. And because Hillary is not going to be on the ticket, anybody still pumping that woman is on the list for sure.

[hfojvt]

106. the quality of mercy is not strained

it droppeth like gentle rains from heaven on the ground below
it is twice blessed
it blesses he that gives
and she that receives


or words to that effect from the Bard. I used my memory stick instead of google. So I probably messed it up.

[BlooInBloo]

111. I heard she's taken most of her guns off of Obama, and set them on bush/mccain....

... I'm happy to lighten up in turn.

VP's not anywhere near an option, of course.

[WinkyDink]

112. "No mercy" works both ways.

[jgraz]

114. You have us all shaking in our boots.

[Honeycombe8]

118. Ditto. Right on, dude! Say it again, Sam! (and every other applicable cliche')nt

[AtomicKitten]

121. Until she concedes, Barack can't let down his guard because she'll stab him in the back for sure.

K&R

:thumbsup:

[TexasObserver]

124. she's a back stabber (backstabber)

OJays?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZVC2j_Kdw8c

[AtomicKitten]

127. Dresden Dolls!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K9zMizbLHYk

On edit: You win! I yield to Soul Train. :D

[unlawflcombatnt]

122. Dream on

"It has been obvious for a few weeks now that Obama is going to be the nominee, at least obvious to everybody except for Hillary and her supporters."

Hillary supporters are over 1/2 the Democratic Party.

[redstate_democrat]

126. Really?

Then why in the FUCK is she losing if her supporters are HALF of the party? Barack has gotten MORE THAN half of the votes.

Her cultish followers who are now in the course of their mental collapse are a tiny segment of the Democratic party. If they cared so much about her getting nominated, they would have voted for her when they had the chance...and they did not.

A lot of her votes came from Limbaugh anyway so really, who knows how much real support she has.

[redstate_democrat]

125. I say no mercy too. Fuck em. In all seriousness, fuck them.

They are either too racist, too stupid, or too deep in the cult that is Hillary to understand logic and reason.

So, I say, let's bash some heads. Treat em like like the rancid Pubes they are because that is exactly what they are. They're no longer Democrats and it's time we start recognizing that. Let's purge these mites, ok? Fuck em. Barack has the nomination and all they're doing is trying to tear down the Democratic nominee. Tell me how they're different than Pubes? They aren't and it's time we recognize that as a party. They are a TINY minority, probably concentrated in states we don't need any fucking way. So fuck em, fuck em.

Yeah, I said it.

[Poll_Blind]

128. You let up and they'll knife ya then pat your back and say "It's politics, son. What'd you expect?"

  In this situation your assessment and suggested course of action are 100% correct in my estimation. There is no other way. This is POLITICS. Politics puts the idiom "All's fair in love and war" to shame.

  There aren't three thousand years-worth of idioms in every spoken language about the ruthlessness of politics for nothing.

  I'll shed a tear and kill a whole box of Chicken in a Biscuits when they do the VH1: Hillary Clinton, Behind the Music, I swear. And I'll lift a fucking lighter and somberly wave it above my head at the tragedy of it all, like it's the slow song at a fucking White Snake concert.

  But until then, she's either in or out. And if she's in, she will stop at nothing to take that nomination. Don't let your guard down.

  I don't even have to say it- you know it. They will stop at nothing.

PB

[ampad]

129. Thank you

I'm so sick of this coddling grown folks shit. I mean this is the fucking internet for gods sake. If you are taking things so damn seriously on the internet then you need to log off. You also got these shit starters that are not even allowed to vote in this country egging this "be nice to Hillary Supporters or else" As if they have a fucking dog in this race to be egging that crap on. We got a war going, our civil liberties are gone, our reproductive rights are on the line yet we got these shit starters worrying about folks e-feelings. I have a feeling there are right wing operatives on this board to help egg the shit on but that is just my suspicion. In the long run the sensible Hill supporters will do what is right, those who expect there e-feelings to be validated are too far gone to even worry about.

[Poll_Blind]

130. Speaking of the "coddling grown folks shit", you must check your PM to see a perfect example.

  It's unreal.

PB

[Lerrad]

131. It was a bit storng, but I liked you post. Good Job! n/t

[4_Legs_Good]

133. If a Hillary supporter slams Obama in the woods and nobody listens, does it matter?

I'm just saying.

They're here to piss us off and to sow dissention. I think if all Obama fans just ignored all negative Clinton posts towards Obama, and Let them sink, it wouldn't matter much.

I'm not a big fan of bashing Hillary or her supporters. I'mma just ignore them until it's officially over, and then see if they just go away or turn back into good Democrats.

David

[dana_b]

134. I'm with you.

I understand that the OP and others are extremely mad - I've felt it too, but sometimes logic has to win over emotion. There is very little that we as people on the internet are going to be able to do if Clinton does twist a knife in Obama's back. He is a very smart guy with smart people around him. They have done a great job so far and think that they can handle it. WHat are we really going to do to help him here anyway? I've donated and made some calls which I think (I hope) has helped more than posting here on DU.

Those that swear that they are not going to vote for him or will vote for that other dude (the pasty, old grumpy pants - you know- he who shall not be named... no, not Voldemort!!) - well, to be honest, I don't understand them at all. It's almost a lost cause with them.

[DesEtoiles]

136. Hillary is the Tonya Harding of the Democratic party

[Poll_Blind]

138. At least Tonya could do a Triple Axel. I'm still not convinced Senator Clinton can do much more...

...than the Shit Throw. :evilgrin:

PB

[papapi]

140. I don't have to placate anybody. If the Hillrod supporters want to vote.....

....for GWB's butt boy John McCain then go right ahead. We'll all have to live with a fascist shitpile for four more years if he gets elected. Cry babies.