Let's just call it what it is. This has become The DLC vs The DNC

[cyberpj]

and the DLC will never concede to giving up it's power.

Just consult that sickening feeling in the pit of your stomach that feels just like it felt when it took the Supremes to take the power into their own hands and award the 2000 election to their boy.

Don't you feel it?

Isn't some part of you just waiting for some outrageous decision to be made by the big money Dems?

And you should be noticing that they don't care what they do to the party if they have to actually lose.

[lmbradford]

1. You are right.....

I have had this feeling from the beginning. DLC isn't going dowm easy especially to a man with the power of the people behind him. They will lose their influence and power. I have been very worried about Obama and am not feeling content to just sit back and expect him to win just because he won the most delegates, the most states, the popular vote, the most caucuses, the most primaries, the most big states, etc.......The fact that Hillary is still in has me very worried. I think something is up. I expected the supers to come out today in mass. It didn't happen. Why? What do they know that we don't? Yes, I know I sound paranoid but I think I have good reason.

[genna]

3. It's conspicuous. CONSTANT VIGILANCE

At this point, the SD either put up or shut up.

The Rules Committee already made a determation on FL and MI. They will hear their appeals on the 31st. The DNC's process will determine how they are seated.


I don't think that the DLC has a future if they don't win through Hillary this election. I don't think that that all of the DNC's big money contributors are actually backing this farce that Clinton is putting forward. All of her big donors are tapped out already.

She has to bleed the women who support her dry in order to keep spouting this crap.


I think the grassroots would be wise to continue pressing forward against the arguments HRC's camp is making and putting boots on the ground in DC on the 31st. The DNC govern bylaws dictate this outcome, not staged protests. I assume that HRC has been able to freeze the requisite number of SD in place so she continue to argue these things.


I think that Jimmy Carter, John Edwards, Howard Dean, Al Gore, and John Kerry need to start working the phones asking the SDs to come out and declare their vote so the contest FORMALLY is over. I think she should do whatever serves her interests. The rest of the party should unite and move forward. With a declaration on who is the best candidate and the actual nomination resolved, BHO can proceed unimpeded to the GE.

BHO needs to get the SD on his side to sweep into these places that HRC surrogates are nesting and talk about the GE.

[SoxFan]

2. Wrong

Kathleen Sebelius, chair of the DLC "Idea Primary" project: Obama supporter
Janet Napolitano, chair of the 2004 DLC national Conversation: Obama supporter
Jack Markell, Del. state treaurer and DLC leader: Obama supporter
Bill Richardson, longtime DLC participant: Obama supporter

Senate New Democratic Coalition members John Kerry, Ben Nelson, Kent Conrad, and Mary Landrieu support Obama.

Meanwhile, long-time DLC critics like James Carville, Paul Begala, and Terry McAuliffe are all in the Hillary camp.


I know you want to refight the 2003 Dean vs From kerfuffle, but this isn't the place.

[genna]

7. The mentality of the DLC is what the kerfuffle is about

BHO isn't a DLCer is he?

He hasn't said, we should accept that as the basis for my administration, has he?

This is the kind of crap they say that aggravates me:

http://www.dlc.org/ndol_ci.cfm?kaid=119&subid=213&contentid=250533
"Six years after President Clinton signed legislation ending welfare as we know it, which replaced the unconditional entitlement to cash aid with temporary cash aid conditioned on work, it is ironic that there is one major group in society that still gets public support without a work requirement-prisoners."

I wasn't aware that welfare to work DLC/Republican mandate was working out so well for women and children.

I doubt that the push for prison work will help the existing subsistence economy of those uneducated workers in surrounding areas.


I don't think any of us should accept Republican ideas masquerading as Democratic notions.

[SoxFan]

9. ...

http://www.ndol.org/ndol_ci.cfm?contentid=251658&kaid=104&subid=210

[stillcool]

8. I think there is no doubt..

that the DLC, or the "Third Way" is pulling the party to the right. To say that Paul Begala, James Carville, and Terry McAuliffe are long term DLC critics is disingenuous. While there are several liberal democrats that have been involved with the DLC, including Al Gore, the influence the DLC has had on the Democratic Party has been devastating.

New Democrat Movement

GROUP

The right wing current of the Democratic party, characterized by its neoliberal economic policies, support of Israel, desire to increase defense spending, and links to heavy donors and fundraisers.

Believes that "left-wing" positions are not politically viable. Describes itself as "moderate and pro-growth". Probably responsible for erosion of the Democratic Party's historical labor and minority base due to support of treaties like NAFTA, lack of support for affirmative action and poverty programs, and their siphoning away of campaign funds from minority groups.

At the national level, the movement was founded by the Democratic Leadership Council (501c4 educational non-profit, founded 1984) and includes the House New Democrat Coalition (founded 1997), the Senate New Democrat Coalition (founded 2000), the New Democrat Network PAC (founded 1996), the misnamed Progressive Policy Institute (501c4 think tank, "Bill Clinton's idea mill", founded 1989), and the umbrella funding group The Third Way Foundation (501c3 non-profit, founded 1996).

Since coming to power within the Democratic Party with Bill Clinton's presidency, the New Democrats/DLC have worked towards "essentially the same purpose as the Christian Coalition... to pull a broad political party dramatically to the right" according to John Nichols of The Progressive.

DLC operatives actively worked to sabotage Howard Dean's candidacy for the US Presidency in 2004, claiming that the "far-left" Democrat was wrong to attack George W. Bush's tax cuts and national security policies.

Corporate contributors to the DLC and New Democratic Network include Bank One, Citigroup, Dow Chemical, DuPont, General Electric, Health Insurance Corporation of America, Merrill Lynch, Microsoft, Philip Morris, RJR Nabisco, Chevron, Prudential Foundation, Amoco Foundation, AT&T, Morgan Stanley, Occidental Petroleum, Raytheon, and many other Fortune 500 companies.

The New Democrat Movement is sometimes referred to as the Dixiecrat movement due to the DLC's origination in the southern states, their desire to get rid of affirmative action, and their membership's overwhelming whiteness.

"Democrats should shift the primary focus from racism, the traditional enemy without, to self-defeating patterns of behavior among blacks" --Chuck Robb, 2nd DLC Chairman, Governor & Senator of the Great State of Virginia, White Man, 1986.

"I'm from the democratic wing of the Democrat Party" --Paul Wellstone, progressive Democrat, criticizing the New Democrat Movement.

"Democrats for the Leadership Class" --Jesse Jackson, progressive black Democrat, describing the DLC.

Official Website:
http://www.ndol.org

[cyberpj]

14. How can an opinion be wrong? Let's not all fall prey to black/white thinking, shall we?

Certainly there are liberal Dems that get involved with the DLC. Personally I don't think everyone who gets involved with them even realizes the depth of their desire to drag the party away from their liberal history.

But the real power of the DLC lies in it's intent: to rescue the Democratic Party from the influence of 1960s-era activists and the AFL-CIO, to ease its identification with hot-button social issues, and, perhaps most centrally, to reinvent the party as one pledged to fiscal restraint, less government, and a probusiness, pro-free market outlook.

Add to that the massive corporate contributions (the possible real reason many of those you mention signed on) and it's no wonder life-long Dems call them Republican-lite.]

So pardon me if I hold to my belief that the Democratic party is being pulled in two by those that would rather abandon it's historical platforms because
(1) they don't believe it will win them elections any more and
(2) they've become attached to big business;
and those that wish to hold on to the original concept of a party for the working man and the promise of government FOR THE PEOPLE.

[Mooney]

4. I always felt this way.

[mamalone]

5. OK.. educate me.....

:blush: Explain the DLC vs the DNC situation to me...:blush:

[cyberpj]

10. Sure. This should do it:

The Rise of the DLC
by Chris Bowers

snip-
Privately funded and operating as an extraparty organization without official Democratic sanction, and calling themselves "New Democrats," the DLC sought nothing less than the miraculous: the transubstantiation of America's oldest political party. Though the DLC painted itself using the palette of the liberal left--as "an effort to revive the Democratic Party's progressive tradition," with New Democrats being the "trustees of the real tradition of the Democratic Party"--its mission was far more confrontational. With few resources, and taking heavy flak from the big guns of the Democratic left, the DLC proclaimed its intention, Mighty Mouse-style, to rescue the Democratic Party from the influence of 1960s-era activists and the AFL-CIO, to ease its identification with hot-button social issues, and, perhaps most centrally, to reinvent the party as one pledged to fiscal restraint, less government, and a probusiness, pro-free market outlook.

Considering this, it is not hard to imagine why many Democrats do not like the DLC. Further, the scope of their corporate contributions is breathtaking:

much more here:
http://www.mydd.com/story/2005/1/24/16457/4867


The Wiki Defs:

The Democratic Leadership Council is a non-profit 501(c)(4) corporation <1> that argues that the United States Democratic Party should shift away from traditionally populist positions. The DLC hails President Clinton as proof of the viability of third way politicians and as a DLC success story while progressives assert that Bill Clinton won campaigning as a populist only to abandon those positions after getting elected. Critics contend that the DLC is a powerful, corporate-financed mouthpiece within the Democratic party - or "The Republican Wing of the Democratic Party"<2>.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_Leadership_Council

The Democratic National Committee (DNC) is the principal organization governing the United States Democratic Party on a day to day basis. While it is responsible for overseeing the process of writing a platform every four years, the DNC's central focus is on campaign and political activity in support of Democratic Party candidates, and not on public policy. The DNC was established at the 1848 Democratic National Convention.<1>

The Democratic National Committee provides national leadership for the Democratic Party of the United States. It is responsible for promoting the Democratic political platform, as well as coordinating fundraising and election strategy.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Democratic_National_Committee

[mamalone]

16. Consider me now educated!

All I can say is yes, I do see your initial point! This information helps me to understand a lot of the current power struggles in the party.

Thanks so much:)

[cyberpj]

17. Had to answer the name "mamalone"

My maiden name is Pat Maloney. :toast:

[mamalone]

19. Ahhh! so your mother would be Ma Maloney?

No relation, of course;)




seriously, thanks for taking the time to answer:)

[Cha]

6. Been that way for a

long time. And now the DinoLosers'Club is in a death match with hilary leading the charge. Turns out they could have gotten somebody better than her.

[cyberpj]

12. "Turns out they could have gotten somebody better than her."

I'm thinking Biden might have done it.
(Although I was an Edwards supporter from the start)

Now I'm hoping Obama considers Joe as a runningmate possiblity.

[WeDidIt]

11. Losing the election this year is in the DLC's best interests

IF we lose with Obama, the DLC maintains power.

If we lose with Clinton, the DLC still maintains power.

No matter what, the DLC wins so long as Obama loses.

[libnnc]

13. I think you're right

[Skidmore]

15. Exactly. Remember what Edwards said during that one debate about

how the status quo will fight when its power is threatened. Well, Clinton is the status quo candidate on the left. She is the DLC candidate. Edwards and Obama have been on target during this campaign. The beast is cornered now and it is particularly dangerous when desparate.

[New Dawn]

18. The DLC only cares about controlling the Democratic Party

They care about nothing else than that. It was the only thing that their big money donors instructed them to do. The GOP will do the rest.

[Political Heretic]

20. Obama has a bunch of high profile DLC supporters too

Sam Nunn to name one...

Still, I don't know if it can be reduced to pure "DLC vs. DNC" but it certainly seems to me that there is an ideological war and a power war being waged between old and new leaders. Where these new leaders would take us? I only have hope, not certainty.

[TexasObserver]

21. Unreconstructed Clintonistas are going to have to be expelled from the DNC.

We have to eliminate the toxic waste that has accumulated in our body politic.