Sen. Jim Webb thinks that Barack Obama can get the Appalachians Vote; it isn't Race so much.....

[FrenchieCat]

He was on KO for an interview. Said he wrote about this quite a few years ago in an article about the history of the Scotch-Irish and their migration to the Appalachians.

It appears that the Democratic party in general has a problem with these voters who either don't vote at all or vote for Republicans. Although Hillary Clinton famously touts that Bill Clinton won West Virginia in 1992 and 1996, she conveniently leaves out that the margin of Bill's win was much smaller than Ross Perot's win. In other words, without Perot, Clinton would have lost West Virginia.

Sen. Webb believes that if Obama goes to the voters in that area and spends time listening to the problems of these folks and tells them what he will do to alleviate their plight, that race would not stop them from voting for him.

In addition, MSNBC has had quite a bit of conversation today (finally) about the meme, that the media is building; that Hard Working Whites won't vote for a Black Man. On both Hardball and KO, they discussed that this sort of analysis is short sighted and dangerous. That they, the media, in fact, are perpetuating a notion that really is not based on reality as much as selective sampling and attributing cause and effect with a racist rationale without evidence but a sampling that is questionnable at best. They were talking about how Obama had been doing fine with the "White working" vote in many of the states contested thus far, and that it was possible that those who chose Sen. Clinton did so because they prefered her more than they disliked Sen. Obama.

So although I realize that there are racists everywhere, I still don't believe that their numbers are as inflated as Hillary Clinton, her campaign, and the media would like for us to believe.

And I do believe that this meme is bad for this country, and those who try to promote it are not patriots and are in fact traitors that are harmful to this country. That they are the worse of all, as they are pushing racial prejudice simply because it is helpful for one particular candidate.

(the term Appalachians Mountains is often used more restrictively to refer to regions in the central and southern Appalachian Mountains, usually including areas in the states of Kentucky, Tennessee, Virginia, Maryland, West Virginia, and North Carolina, and sometimes extending as far south as northern Georgia and western South Carolina, as far north as Pennsylvania, and as far west as southern Ohio.)

[woolldog]

1. Doesn't Webb kind of have to say that?

I mean he can't say no, Obama, the presumptive Dem nominee, can't win them. It's hopeless.

I don't think Obama can win them, but I think he can do better among them in PA and OH. Do respectably enough that they don't sink him in those two states. He will have to go all out there even to do that well. He lost some reasonably populated counties in Kentucky 95%-5%. That's no joke. Campaigning in WV or KY during the general will be a waste of time and resources.

[TheWraith]

15. I think honestly, Webb's being a little dishonest.

He's trying to spin it as culture, not race, but there's no doubt race is a big thing. This is really the last big segment of the country where widespread hate of minorities is considered "normal."

But then, we weren't going to win those votes anyway--we haven't since 1964.

[hokies4ever]

60. I thought he said that he wrote about this a few year's ago

before Obama burst out as the frontrunner, obviously.

[babylonsister]

2. Here's Webb's article he was referencing from 2004...

http://www.jameswebb.com/articles/wallstjrnl/scotsirishvote.htm

Commentary:
Secret GOP Weapon: The Scots-Irish Vote
October 19, 2004


To an outsider George W. Bush's political demeanor seems little more than stumbling tautology. He utters his campaign message in clipped phrases, filled with bravado and repeated references to God, and to resoluteness of purpose. But to a trained eye and ear these performances have the deliberate balance of a country singer at the Grand Ole Opry.

Speaking in a quasi-rural dialect that his critics dismiss as affected, W is telling his core voting groups that he is one of them. No matter that he is the product of many generations of wealth; that his grandfather was a New England senator; that his father moved the family's wealth south just like the hated Carpetbaggers after the Civil War; that he himself went North to Andover and Yale and Harvard when it came time for serious grooming. And as with the persona, so also with the key issues. The Bush campaign proceeds outward from a familiar mantra: strong leadership, success in war, neighbor helping neighbor, family values, and belief in God. Contrary to many analyses, these issues reach much farther than the oft-discussed Christian Right. The president will not win re-election without carrying the votes of the Scots-Irish, along with those others who make up the "Jacksonian" political culture that has migrated toward the values of this ethnic group.

At the same time, few key Democrats seem even to know that the Scots-Irish exist, as this culture is so adamantly individualistic that it will never overtly form into one of the many interest groups that dominate Democratic Party politics. Indeed, it can be fairly said that Al Gore lost in 2000 because the Democrats ignored this reality and the Scots-Irish enclaves of West Virginia and Tennessee turned against him.

Why are the 30 million Scots-Irish, who may well be America's strongest cultural force, so invisible to America's intellectual elites? It is commonplace for commentators to lump together those who are descended from British roots into the WASP culture typified by New England Brahmins, or the Irish, who are overwhelmingly Catholic. But it is political nonsense to consider the Scots-Irish as part of either.

more...

http://www.jameswebb.com/articles/wallstjrnl/scotsirishvote.htm

[FrenchieCat]

6. Yep, that's it.

Guess that he said exactly what he thought, and not about what he felt he "had" to say.

[genna]

39. The proof is in the juke joint, not in the hype the media is pushing.

The decline in public education and the outsourcing of jobs has hit this culture hard. Diversity programs designed to assist minorities have had an unequal impact on white ethnic groups and particularly this one, whose roots are in a poverty-stricken South. Their sons and daughters serve in large numbers in a war whose validity is increasingly coming into question. In fact, the greatest realignment in modern politics would take place rather quickly if the right national leader found a way to bring the Scots-Irish and African Americans to the same table, and so to redefine a formula that has consciously set them apart for the past two centuries.

When I heard Jim Webb talk about them, it rang 100% true. I've been watching Chris Matthews and Pat Buchanan for a while and they definitely strike me as having characteristics of these Appalachia folks, not the stereotypical way either.

My people grew up around a lot of these Scot-Irish folks in Virginia. They are not all racist rebel (My grandmother called them reb-ish like Confederate rebels). They can co-exist and have co-existed in and amongst black people for centuries. From the stories I've heard told about them, they just don't like to be identified as the same as any other group of poor people.

I didn't buy Webb's argument about it being common expression that denying white poor people is the way of things. Their pride takes them to a new level in terms of what kind of help they will take or accept from other people. They are all about self-reliance. They judge other people by requests for aid. They don't like other people thinking they are better or are more important. They are quick to try to intimidate other people they feel are weak.


I think Obama can go into God's country (I mean that in the best possible way) and win their vote. I didn't think the pundits knew what the hell they were talking about when they said he couldn't win white voters who make under $50K. But Jim Webb's description of who they are made me realize, he can win these people.

I don't think there is anyway Obama should concede these country and western listeners to McCain, but there is no way in the world he would have won these guys in 1 week of primaries either. If he is going to win them, he needs to talk about strength---not in terms of obliterating Iraq---but strength of character (ie. the gas tax is bull...you aren't getting money back people) and pride in faith (ie. knowing you only have one God and one life).

BHO does not have to contort and make himself over in order to relate to these Appalachian people, but he will need to leave the tie at home, put some jeans and boots on, and campaign from one juke joint to the next to make these people accept that he is one of 'us.'

[jefferson_dem]

3. Video ...

Here -- http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=385x135499

[The_Casual_Observer]

4. Before this primary nobody ever paid the slightest bit of attention

to what Appalachian people thought or did. And the only attention they are getting now is to be objectified by one side or the other. They'll be forgotten again in a few weeks.

[woolldog]

5. sounds like what blacks and hispanics have dealt with for years

welcome to the club.

[Leopolds Ghost]

46. Don't expect Casual Observer to have any sympathy for the plight of inner city

Appalachian voters regasrd inner city residents as competition for
resources, both government and private sector, and regard them as
the enemy, period. West Virginia residents I've met (construction
workers) refuse to even live within 50 miles of the city, and they
openly tell people why.

Never mind that "red necks" and "inner city blacks" share many
of the EXACT same problems and often come from the EXACT same parts
of the south.

White sharecroppers fled to the mountains because they were once
equally opposed to the interests of the slaveholders. Much of
Reconstruction -- except in Louisiana where it was open warfare
between blacks/Union soldiers and whites -- consisted of tamping
down a series of efforts to unify the freed slave sharecroppers
and the Scots-Irish sharecroppers politically.

A republican recently wrote a book describing how the so-called
"cultural pathologies of the inner city" are in fact merely
identical to the economic problems and cultural traits of
the rural white South, and the people that suffer from them are
the ones who migrated into the cities from the South and were
ghettoized. The Appalachians who went to Baltimore, Chicago
and Philly were also ghettoized(!)

[anonymous171]

7. K&R

:kick:

[cui bono]

8. I believe that Rachel Maddow has a lot to do with msnbc debunking that myth

I'm so glad they're using her more and more. She really is about getting to the truth and not repeating the same media bs all the time.

[FrenchieCat]

10. I agree.

And what it sad is that we have to rely on one or two journalists commentators to stop the choir of others who push these myths as facts......and feed to the nation the scurge of racism. It's like they made being a racist cool again. Pat Buchanan is now a "Kool Kid"! :puke:

[cui bono]

13. Yeah. Thom Hartmann was talking this morning about how the media was using that meme

and depicting Oregon as a liberal state and that's why he won so big there. Hartmann explained how false that is, that Oregon is the best sample of all of the US and that's why a lot of product testing goes on there. That there's a lot of working class whites, a lot of Republicans, etc... He was really disturbed that they were chracterizing his win in terms of race and elitism. He felt there were racial undertones in everything he heard during the time between the primary polls closing of KY and OR.

[JohnnyLib2]

9. The same Webb article includes this paragraph:

"The decline in public education and the outsourcing of jobs has hit this culture hard. Diversity programs designed to assist minorities have had an unequal impact on white ethnic groups and particularly this one, whose roots are in a poverty-stricken South. Their sons and daughters serve in large numbers in a war whose validity is increasingly coming into question. In fact, the greatest realignment in modern politics would take place rather quickly if the right national leader found a way to bring the Scots-Irish and African Americans to the same table, and so to redefine a formula that has consciously set them apart for the past two centuries."

--------------
That says to me that Webb does not buy the "ignore Appalachia" strategy at all--no wonder he wants Obama to go into the area, listen, and offer solutions.

And, what the hell, I can read Webb's piece as explaining why Clinton has done well with these voters. The "racism" angle misses Webb's point.

[grannylib]

12. I agree, he can't write those states off, as Buchanan suggested

tonight on Tweety (and which he obviously hopes Obama will do, so he has no chance of winning - )
I think he's a smart, persuasive man, who really can connect with people of all kinds, and if he makes the effort, I think he can win them over. Not all of them, of course; I agree that there is racism in this country - some overt, some more hidden, but I don't think the no-way-ever voters have sufficient numbers to overcome the I-could-be-persuaded-what's-in-it-for-me? voters.
At least, I hope so...

[JohnnyLib2]

21. Love your sentence about the 2 types of voters.

I hope so, too....:hi:

[flpoljunkie]

23. Perhaps that leader is Senator Obama who can name the Scots-Irish Senator Webb his V.P.

"In fact, the greatest realignment in modern politics would take place rather quickly if the right national leader found a way to bring the Scots-Irish and African Americans to the same table, and so to redefine a formula that has consciously set them apart for the past two centuries."

[rox63]

11. Webb wrote a book about the Scots-Irish a few years back

Called "Born Fighting: How the Scots-Irish Shaped America ", and he is of that heritage himself. So I think he knows what he's talking about.

http://www.amazon.com/Born-Fighting-Scots-Irish-Shaped-America/dp/0767916891/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1211419406&sr=1-1

[Zynx]

14. Ummmm....One thing: Don't reinvent electoral history about Perot.

Clinton got 48.51% of the vote in WV and Perot got 15.92% while Bush got just 35.39%. Perot's voters would have had to go for Bush at about a 90% rate and the evidence, which has been posted here in many academic studies, is that Perot's vote was at most a 55-45% spread for Bush, if that. Much of his vote was conservative Democrats. The second time, Bill got more than 50%.

[FrenchieCat]

24. Do you have a link?

[Zynx]

45. Look it up here:

http://uselectionatlas.org/RESULTS/

As for data about Perot's voters, I can never find the exact exit poll, but I've seen a few academic studies over the years that show that there were even a couple states Perot cost Clinton. Perot undoubtedly cost Bush Georgia and Montana and he may have cost Bush Kentucky. However, both elections still would have been won by Clinton regardless. The pre-election and exit polling showed that in both cases. Don't forget, much of Perot's vote was an anti-incumbent vote. Huge segments of it were from Democrats and Independents who otherwise would have voted for Clinton. On balance it was slightly more conservative than the electorate at large, but not so much so as to cost Bush an election he otherwise would have won.

[ErinBerin84]

16. I thought it was also interesting

that Webb kind of seemed more open to the VP question (well, he didn't say "I'm not really interested" again). He said "That's a decision that the presidential candidate has to make. I haven't had any conversations with anyone about it." I am conflicted about him as a VP pick, but he is an interesting choice. I feel stupid kind of picking apart what he says, but I guess everyone does that for someone who has been discussed as a VP option.

[Condem]

17. Frenchie

follow the Appalachian Trail. I lived there. Those people won't come around.

[David Zephyr]

18. K&R.

I also believe that Appalachians would vote for Senator Obama, but it's a real shame that Hillary had to point out "good Americans, hard working Americans, white Americans" wouldn't support Senator Obama.

How does one just let that go? I can't.

[Athletic Grrl]

49. He has to let it go.

There are older people everywhere that agree with the Democrats, but have an inherent racism built in. Anecdoctally: I have a Chinese BIL on my husband's side---a TON of his family married Asian---my 76 year old MIL starts on a (admittedly gentle) rant about blacks and Chinese. Then she remembers she has a half-Chinese granddaughter and says, "Well, it's okay."

Those people (and she's 100% Serb for the record; family here for over 100 years) will not vote for Barack. She and her sisters will be solidly behind Hillary. They see in her what they COULD have been had they told their spouses they wanted an education (some hubbys were GI and union, some educated; all were WASP). And in the end, that informed them, down to a conversation with MIL two days ago that boiled down to those perfect housewives of the 50's vs. what we are, basically out of necessity, today.

[HooptieWagon]

19. I'm thinking more and more...

...that Sen Webb would make an outstanding VP selection for Sen Obama. He would not only bring military and foreign policy expertise to the ticket, but can quite likely bring in southern working class voters who to date have been reluctant to vote for Obama.

[JohnnyLib2]

20. Probably so, but aren't they pretty far apart on the point in question?

Webb's book and part of his public persona have involved valuing the Scots-Irish (Appalachia) influence.

[Cha]

22. Obama can do that in the General when he doesn't

have hilary clinton lying on every corner.

[AtomicKitten]

25. Turns out the white voter vs Barack issue is yet another manipulation by the Clintons.

I suppose I should be glad the truth is being spoken about this and all the other subterfuge the Clintons got going on at any given moment, but they are behaving like rogue operatives. Their power is being usurped by the young upstart and they're not having it. If they're willing to risk full-on humiliation, so be it. That too will be self-inflicted. Maybe then the party can get on with the general election.

[JohnnyLib2]

27. Webb stayed away from that, didn't he?

(I didn't see the interview, just clips) The focus appeared to be on why
these particular voters are important, and how they respond to candidates.

[AtomicKitten]

29. his discussion certainly broadened the subject to reach the real truth

about the interpretation of exit-polling stats

[FrenchieCat]

31. My OP was about a bit more than what Webb said....although my headline

concentrated on his point.

The fact that Oregon White voters are being typified by the same commentators as earthy tree hugging liberals should send alarm bells off in your head, unless you don't know Oregon or unless you support Hillary Clinton.

[BeyondGeography]

26. Saw him this morning as well

He's a true believer in reconciliation...he called blacks and poor Appalachian whites "tortured siblings." That alone makes him an interesting fit with Barack.

[FrenchieCat]

28. He also said that bringing together both of these groups that have been

the most torned down in this nation would remake electoral politics, and that they would have much more power if they united.

[BeyondGeography]

30. He's my #1 choice right now

Puts Virginia in the very winnable column, a rock on national security, bi-partisan background and he's written a book about the very group of people that have given Barack the cold shoulder so far. He's talking unity. I know about the three wives, the temper, the odd book passages, but there's something about this guy that makes me think he will click with Barack.

[MadBadger]

38. He's been my number 1 for awhile now, and tonight I found out he wasnt as conservative as I thought

I had no clue he was for civil unions or was pro-choice. This really solidifies my support for him as Veep.

[Overseas]

43. I loved that statement and possibility too ! /nt

[sfam]

32. Wow, forgot about how Perot probably affected his winning these states...

good point!

[ladjf]

33. I disagree with Senator Webb. The Appalachian votes for

Clinton is most definitely about race. And that bias comes out of a need for status. Among many culture groups, it's easy to fall into the false belief that their race is superior to all others.

[genna]

40. You're discounting why these voters and African Americans were pitted against each other

in the first place.

The question in the areas where Scots-Irish and African Americans argued the most was over access to jobs, position, and reputation. If the politician came around and stoked the animosity between the two groups there would stoke invariably a new spark in the ongoing struggle out of poverty. If you think about all the places that these 2 groups fight or having been fighting (maybe argue is a better word), it has to do with access to better resources.

I would say affirmative action did affect them the most. Red lining housing affected them the most too. The kind of ethnic infighting we saw in different places where Hispanic and African American politicians came out and supported opposing candidates is similar to what Scots-Irish and African Americans have been doing for years.

John Edwards and James Webb are the key to striking a cord with these voters.


I also want to say, there is NO ROOM in BHO's outreach that should appeal to the haters. If there are people out there filled with hate who would not vote for BHO because he is black, then he should not spend 1 DIME on them or their vote. But I think there are more to them and their poverty than the media or anyone else cares to address. He can't talk to them like here is a hand out either. The only way he can gain their vote is if he talks to them about earning their way.

[cbc5g]

54. maybe for a few of them

But I honestly believe, having lived in appalachia for quite a while as an outsider, that folks there are very hesitant and wont trust someone who looks differently from them. Blacks fit that.

Try wearing a gay rights shirt around an appalachian town vs say a vermont town, and youll understand that they really are backwards when it comes to acceptance of others.

[McDiggy]

34. Wow.......

This is the first time all year I've read or seen something approaching an intelligent critical analysis of this situation. Even this barely skirts the reasons why Appalachia doesn't like Obama. "Race" was just a shallow, sensational, easy to reach excuse the pundits have been peddling for a week now. And it's true, too. When Appalachians are given a place at the table and are actually considered people that matter, they will respond. Webb knows what he is talking about.

[JohnnyLib2]

35. I'll second this, all of it.

:thumbsup:

[Eric J in MN]

36. What difference in Hillary Clinton's policies caused her to do better in Appalachia? NT

NT

[genna]

47. Respect for a strong leader --- Hillary made that obliterate Iran comment

She also has gone on the attack instead of taking her defeat gracefully.

These Scots-Irish are the ones who will be the first to sign up for the military. If you look at some of the mock movies from the Vietnam era, they were the deep country characters.

There is a right and there is a wrong with them (serious stereotype here because I would argue Pat Buchanan is one of them). They will go down fighting to the end on a point or an issue. It is not an issue of self righteousness. It is an issue of righteousness.

Obama doesn't appeal because he didn't get eye to eye with them. The believe they can take the measure of a man/woman by interacting with them. I think some people do understand abstract but they really don't trust politicians or outsiders nor do they think anyone is going to do anything for them.


Hillary has insanely decided she is going argue sexism and be the victim after she through with these states. She would not persuade them on that issue nor will BHO persuade them on racism.

[Leopolds Ghost]

44. Yes, but there is a CULTURAL racial xenophobia at work here. See #41

The same one that caused Illinois and Indiana to ban black people from
entering the state while they voted for Lincoln.

[madrchsod]

50. southern illinos-coal and fluorspar.

southern illinois is entirely different than the rest of illinois

[ErinBerin84]

37. I loved how he is framing the argument

"If the Scots Irish and the African Americans can come together, they can change the country."

I know that he has a bad rep for his temper, but I love that story about him saying that he wanted to punch George Bush when he was asked about his son in Iraq, and not wanting to have his picture taken with Bush . "I'm not particularly interested in having a picture of me and George W. Bush on my wall." George Bush asked about his son in such a typical, disrespectful way. Slug.

[Leopolds Ghost]

41. Not a single person has replied to my analysis of KY. BO got only 5-10% of the vote in the Kerry cos

The Democratic part of Appalachia -- the coal counties of Virginia,
West Virginia and Kentucky -- the only ones where Kerry won -- are
where Obama did WORST. They apparently HATE him there.

EVERY county in eastern Kentucky voted 5-10% for Barack.

And the 15% marker (areas where essentially NO ONE voted for Obama)
coincides with exactly the borders of the Appalachian coal region
in Kentucky,

while the 15% marker in West Virginia (far fewer counties) coincides
exactly with the 7 Mountaintop Removal counties (Boone, Mingo, etc.)
-- which are, again, the only counties that voted for Kerry and Dukakis.

Why were they loyal to Kerry and Dukakis and yet BO does worse with
them than he does in the Jim Crow counties??

All but 7 non-appalachian KY counties were Barack Obama 20-30%.

All but 7 West Virginia counties were Barack Obama 20-30% --
the 7 Kerry - Dukakis counties which are mining counties
mostly along the Kentucky border. They voted AGAINST Obama
in Kentucky margins (5-10%)

The entire of Appalachian Kentucky statistical coal mining area
except for three outliers was Barack Obama 15% or less, with
his margin dropping from 19% to 5% implacably as you go east.



The beige counties are almost all Obama 10-15%,
the darker counties are almost all Obama 5-10%.

Funny how the MSMBC NOW wants to say race may be a media creation here.

It seems to me we are dealing with a CULTURAL racial xenophobia.

Please read and respond to my analysis:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=132x6054753#6056469

[FrenchieCat]

51. Your thread is about WHAT it was, while I'm trying to understand WHY it is....

Since Kerry didn't fare any better than Obama in this area, it pretty much appears, then it isn't necessarily race that is "the" issue. This thread is to discuss why and whether anything can be done about it, or whether it is hopeless since Obama can't become totally White anytime soon.

[JohnnyLib2]

53. Gave it a shot.

[genna]

56. How?

[JohnnyLib2]

57. I went to Leopold's thread and replied.

Sorry to not be more clear.

[genna]

55. I will take a bite on your WV/KY assertions --- I don't know if they'll satisfy

In other words, WV was merely the tip of an iceberg of Appalachian "white mistrust" of Obama,
the VAST BULK of which is concentrated in a single area -- western Kentucky Appalachia and
the mountaintop removal areas specifically. The returns in West Virginia were merely a
side effect of the hatred the people in this neighboring state seem to have for Obama.

This is a cultural issue which does not make sense to me -- it is as if the Appalachian voters
in Kentucky feel that Obama is going to come and take away their "culture and heritage".

They are already screwed over economically and they have no national security to worry about
(if anything, the feds bomb THEM routinely because the major cash crop is marijuana.)

And these are not just rabid Republican counties -- some are, and these people are at the
forefront of the Reagan Dems voting 95% - 5% for Clinton, but some of them are yellow dog
democratic counties that voted for Gore and Kerry.

The only measuring stick seems to be not economic politics, not culture, but whether
or not they were "sundown counties" a mere 25 years ago where black people would be
murdered or jailed after dark.

In other words, irrational hatred of dark-skinned people,
regardless of politics or whether it is a "red" county or a "blue" county.

There are some white people who feel like a black man has no business having power over them. BHO represents the ulitmate fear for some of those voters.

My people did not come from West Virginia or Kentucky. For generations they came from western Virginia. They knew all about getting caught out after dark in white neighborhoods. They also know what it means to fight back against those after dark social mores.


There is a reason that the Byrd family moved from Virginia politics into West Virginia politics too.

You are missing an important element in your analysis, black people learned to live peaceably in amongst these Irish-Scots for generations. The difference between West Virginia/Kentucky 95% white and Virginia 30%+ Black and some of these other coal states is they learned to live together.

Let's be clear, Obama will not win the haters because he is black. He can be competitive amongst those poor people who want the American dream to work for them. He can't promise them what the government will not provide.

I don't think he would be safe in a number of these Appalachian areas after dark, but I do believe he needs to go to different places while the sun is still up and talk bread and butter issues. I think the longer he is around them, the longer the more likely he is able to touch their hearts.

I think he should rely on local politicians and local veterans to tell him where he can go safely and campaign from local church/military outpost to bar hot spot. There are people in these places who have learned to survived with a lot less than most. He needs to speak to their issues in person.

I don't blame him for not going during the week long primary races, but he needs to pull out all the stops like he did in PA to deal with some of their irrational animosity. He might get the same warm reception he received in western PA, but he can't not go to these far flung places.

Yeah, he is exotic to a place that is 95% white, but most of America is getting pretty exotic.

[JohnnyLib2]

59. Good points, especially the "local church/military outpost to bar" part.

Frankly, I wish the motive on this point was social change, not just votes.
Pipe dream, eh?

[stillcool]

42. Thanks FrenchieCat

good thread. I have not yet read any of Jim Webb's books. I'm going to have to check them out.

[madrchsod]

48. ya have to include southern illinois

my best friends folks are from there and most of the people there came from the mountains.

[cbc5g]

52. Deep down he knows he is wrong

There are a large group of voters in appalachia who will not vote for a black man.

[genna]

58. Wrong for what exactly?

Why should we, people who would vote for Obama, let people who won't vote for a black man determine how we SEE THE WORLD or who we VOTE FOR?

Clinton's biggest failure is that she thinks she should be able to use RACE AS A MEANS to persuade us he is unacceptable. It is not the first time race has been used in this manner...the Republican Southern Strategy has been especially effective.

If Democrats want to use that strategy, they may win these HATERS but they will lose those eggheads and African Americans that think race mixing ain't so bad.

The HATERS are on the wrong side of history.


I don't think Appalachia is defined by race hatred.