I just have to say this.

[redqueen]

Anyone who is trying to pretend as if Hillary's decision to mention the assassination of RFK is just some nothing issue that no one has any reason to bat an eye over is only fooling themselves.

This is not happening in a bubble. There is context here, and pretending it's not there only makes the person doing the pretending look like an idiot or a shill.

For one thing, there's no reason to mention the assassination. If she's trying to make a point about late campaigning, then she should talk about his campaign. Fuckin DUH.

Furthermore, this is the first black candidate for president, and only the most idiotic of idiots could manage to somehow not see the context of unnecessary mentions of assassination in this primary race.

I never thought I'd be so disgusted by my fellow DUers.


edited to add: this is NOT the first time so don't try to peddle that "poorly thought out comment" bullshit.

MOST of us aren't pretending we were born yesterday. Thanks.

[libnnc]

1. !!!!

:kick:

:nuke:

[Rene]

61. Get real...that was a JUNE issue...not anything else

[libnnc]

65. fuck you

[AtomicKitten]

2. word

K&R

[Forkboy]

3. The people defending this are human wreckage.

[Swamp Rat]

11. human?

I told y'all. ;)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

It Was A Poorly Thought Out Comment Given The Context

I don't think there was malevolent intent to it...If there was she deserves to be damned...If there wasn't and I accuse her of having malevolent intent than I deserve to be damned too...

[Forkboy]

26. "Poorly thought out" is the most generous one can be.

[Swamp Rat]

37. Too generous, as Tom Rinaldo points out:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=132&topic_id=6092149&mesg_id=6092610

[redqueen]

48. "unforgivable" is the perfect word. (nt)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

38. It Was Dumb, Stupid, Inane, Et Cetera

Folks here are making the inference that was her wish... We can never get into someone's brain or heart, if you will...If that was her wish she is evil...If a person is saying that was her wish and it wasn't that person is no less evil...

[Divernan]

47. It was an evil statement, no matter who made it.

Any thinking person knows that one doesn't suggest killing someone for fear that some nutcase reading or hearing that suggestion will act on it. Isn't there a rule/guideline on DU not to mention the possibility of ANY political figure being assasinated? DU posts suggesting such an end for Cheney, Bush, etc., were deleted.

If you refuse to see the pathological immorality in her statement, you are in need of help. Unless, you posit that she has NO moral compass and therefore lacks the mental capacity to form an evil thought. You can use that to explain her vote against banning cluster bombs, too.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

55. I Am Not In Need Of Help...Thank You Very Much...My Moral Compass Is Just Fine...

If that was Hillary's wish she is beyond evil...If that wasn't her wish than the person accusing her of making it is beyond evil...

I can't read her mind so I am compelled to give her the benefit of the doubt...

[Divernan]

79. It's a matter of taking at her word, NOT guessing at her wish.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

82. She Alluded To The Assassination Of Robert Kennedy

Given the context it was incredibly stupid... To believe it was her wish presupposes the ability to read her mind...Such determinations are beyond the ken of any human...

[americanstranger]

41. I don't accept that for a second.

Hillary Clinton is a trained attorney.

Nothing comes out of her mouth that does not advance the argument.

I don't buy this 'mis-speak' shit. Not at all.

- as

[DemocratSinceBirth]

46. Is Your Inference That Was Her Wish?

If it was I will submit she is evil... If it wasn't her wish than the person accusing her of harboring such ugly thoughts is evil... The question really is a metaphysical one because only God and her knew what she meant...

[Swamp Rat]

56. Red Herring

[DemocratSinceBirth]

58. It's Not A Red Herring

There is a world of difference bewtween saying something stupid and saying something evil...

[Swamp Rat]

60. AND a Straw Man because the poster, americanstranger, made no such statement.

YOU said it, than came to the conclusion based on the Straw Man.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

63. You Miss The Forest For The Trees

We are not talking about logical fallacies...

She made an incredibly ignorant statement given the context...The inference that permeates all these threads is that was her wish...

There is no way anybody can make that determination...

[DemocratSinceBirth]

64. You Miss The Forest For The Trees

We are not talking about logical fallacies...

She made an incredibly ignorant statement given the context...The inference that permeates all these threads is that was her wish...

There is no way anybody can make that determination...

[Swamp Rat]

69. Well, I am using logic in this conversation because I am trying to understand

how you came to your conclusion(s) based on the posts above.

Now, if you want to change the course of the conversation, adding new information, then that is... another conversation. :D ;)

[DemocratSinceBirth]

73. Here Is My Position. We Can Debate It If You Desire

Given the context it was an incredibly stupid statement to make... I am not willing or able to make the determination that was her wish... To make such a determination is beyond my ken...

[Divernan]

84. Might we agree we don't want someone that incredibly stupid representing the US in foreign relations

which is a prime responsibility of the President.

[DemocratSinceBirth]

85. I Would Agree To That But That Would Disqualify Several Presidents

My only point is that it was a dumb statement...I lack the capacity to look into her heart or mind, depending on where a person believes such thoughts emanate from, to know if that was her wish...

[Name removed]

4. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Steely_Dan]

28. Oh, that's mature...

[Saturday]

52. You sound bitter. nt

[Liberal Gramma]

59. #81 You've earned it

[Connie_Corleone]

5. She keeps mentioning RFK's assassination. It's not the first time.

I truly despise that evil woman.

[leftofcool]

6. Tizzy post # 676

[RUMMYisFROSTED]

29. Blinders post #3931.

[DarienComp]

7. Hey, redqueen, chillax!

It's not as if she said he was "likeable enough" at a debate. That would REALLY be bad.

[americanstranger]

14. Or scratched his face.

Let's keep some perspective here. :sarcasm:

- as

[Writer]

8. Bobby Kennedy was accepting the nomination the same day he was assassinated.

That's all.

[Steely_Dan]

31. Wrong....

[Writer]

43. Dude, it's all in wikipedia.

He had knocked out Eugene McCarthy after winning the CA primary and Humphrey in SD. He was the nominee apparent that night.

Kennedy finally won the Indiana and Nebraska Democratic primaries, but lost the Oregon primary. If he could defeat McCarthy in the California primary, the leadership of the campaign thought, he would knock him out of the race and set up a one-on-one against Hubert Humphrey (whom he bested in the primary held on the same day as the California primary in Humphrey's birth state, South Dakota) at the Chicago national convention in August.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_F._Kennedy#Assassination

Kennedy won. He won the nomination in June... all he needed was for it to be signed and sealed at the convention.

[Steely_Dan]

83. Yep...you are exactly right....

However, I was going by what you posted, which was that he was accepting the nomination. If I remember correctly, his last words at the mike were something like...."Now it's on to Chicago and let's win there." The implication in your post was that he was giving his acceptance speech for the nomination. One thing we might agree on is that the world would have been very different had he not been shot.

-P

[PaulaFarrell]

62. what is your point?

are you saying that unless she waits until the day he was awarded the nomination to spou this crap, it's irrelevant? That right now she's just speculating? I really don't get what you're trying to say, but I'm pretty sure it makes no sense.

[Writer]

66. My point is, if you wish to read it...

is that the same day Kennedy became the nominee apparent - when he won California - is also the day he was unfortunately assassinated.

She was referencing the day he essentially became the Dem nominee in 1968 - a day in June.

[PaulaFarrell]

76. I don't think so

she talks about her husband wrapping up the campaign in California in june, but does not mention RFK wrapping up or being awarded the nomination. She segues from Clinton getting the nomination to RFK being assassinated, with no mention of him getting the nomination on the day of his assassination. The link you are positing is only in your mind, I'm afraid, it's certainly not in her words. She is trying to open up the possibility that anything can happen between now and August, which is true enough, but why oh why give all the loonies who we know are out there even the slightest encouragement? you just don't do that, not if you're smart and have any morals. So either she's stupid or immoral, take your pick.

[Writer]

77. So I'm supposed to simply accept your read on this?

You're wrong about this, because history is history, and if you don't know what was going on that night in 1968 then I can't help you. To believe that she would actually suggest that someone needs to kill Barack Obama so she can have the nomination is an atrocious suggestion.

Look - we're obviously not going to agree on this, but I am not going to simply abandon logic in order to comport with the irrational majority on this. No.

[PaulaFarrell]

81. I did not say she was suggesting that someone needs to kill him

Reread my words. She was saying that anytihg could happen, including assassiantaion, and that is something that is JUST NOT DONE. Not when assassination is such a very real possiblity.

BTW, I don't know what was going on in 1968, because I was 8, and I guess around 1/3 to 1/2 the voting population is my age or less. SO while I knew he was assassinated as a candidate, I didn't know (until today) that he was on his way to pick up the nomination. And I would guess a large proportion of the population also would not know fact that without it being pointed out. So for many people, especially her 'hard-working white' base, the reference was to the assassination and not to the nomination. You don't have to abandon logic to understand that, just to acknowledge how poorly informed most Americans are about history.

[WeDidIt]

9. There's a definite pattern now of assassin baiting

She's hinted at it for more than a week with the "something could happen" crap.

[KittyWampus]

12. Remember her NRA flyer? With the rifle graphic flipped to point at Obama?

[Mimosa]

No...very interesting

Do you have a link?

[americanstranger]

39. How about Rendell's 'shoot Howard Dean' comment?

http://phoenixwoman.wordpress.com/2008/03/10/fivell-get-you-ten-nothing-bad-happens-to-rendell-over-this/

there's a pattern here, and it ain't pretty.

- as

[Jennifer C]

42. Flyer

article about the flyer:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0508/Clinton_mailings_gun_gaffe.html

[Saturday]

You really are over reacting. Hillary can just as well be assassinated as Obama. nt

[shadowknows69]

22. And he's not the one who reminded the world of it

And by proxy condoned and incited it to the lunatic fringe.

[Saturday]

36. That's a ridiculous comment. nt

[shadowknows69]

49. Coming from you that must mean I'm spot on

[Mimosa]

23. No, can't happen. The Devil watches out for his own.

[slinkerwink]

10. hear, hear

[shadowknows69]

13. It's incitement pure and simple, If there's one thing the Clintons know

It's how to manipulate people through the media. Thanks apparently to the tutelage of Karl Rove.

[bluesxtreme]

15. HELLO Mcfly?!!! anyone in there? Its called denial when supporters dont want to face the truth.

[sandnsea]

16. The CA Primary Happened in February

There isn't a huge number of delegates to gain in June. There hasn't been any reason to talk about California and June - well - ever. But to just toss the assassination in there? This is what she's been holding out for all along. She is lower than a slug.

[Elspeth]

24. California's primaries have usually been in June.

In fact, we are having elections for local offices here in June, complete with propositions. The moving of the primary just added an extra election to the schedule.

[sandnsea]

34. They aren't THIS YEAR

So the huge pool of California delegates is not a reason to let the Dem Party primary go to June. Nothing is going to happen in June THIS YEAR. Unless Hillary's dream of an Obama assassination comes true.

[Elspeth]

53. As a Californian, I congratulate you on your perspicacity.

:)

[islandmkl]

17. it is f***ing disgusting...

and for anybody who remembers 1968...bullets extinguished the flames of hope...for hillary to PRETEND to have any connection with those days is a total sham...

it was a great time to be alive...but the aftermath of not becoming all we could have become after those years haunts this country to this day...

we do not need ANYBODY leading this country who will do ANYTHING to get the position...they are not trying to lead, they want to rule...

[NanceGreggs]

18. Word.

:kick: and REC for the truth.

[Elspeth]

19. Redqueen, maybe you know better than I, but what campaigns went into June so unsettled?

Clinton mentions her husband and Bobby Kennedy. I remember that Mondale and Dukakis were pretty clear frontrunners before the summer, but my memory stops there. What about 1976 with Carter or 1972 with McGovern? How long did it take for frontrunners to emerge in those primaries?

Thanks in advance.

[BlooInBloo]

20. Clinton to SD's: Wait until June when Obama could be shot.

[NashVegas]

21. I Don't Really Care

She's entitled to bring up whatever she wants to, to remind the DNC and DCCC that she has every right to remain in the race through the convention.

[Swamp Rat]

That says a lot.

So much for Bobby Kennedy, Martin Luther King Jr., and race relations.

[Tatiana]

51. "She's entitled to bring up whatever she wants to"

Says it all.

Thanks for letting us know where you stand.

[Divernan]

54. Try hard to rememer where and when you last saw your moral compass - before you lost it.

[CakeGrrl]

25. Combine that with the Hill Shills: "Anything can happen! Anything can happen!"

Sorry, they set themselves up to look suspect. At the very least, it just amplifies their ham-fisted incompetence.

Just keep her away from the VP slot. Period.

[Name removed]

27. Deleted message

Message removed by moderator. Click here to review the message board rules.

[Avalux]

30. Hillary doesn't say anything unless it's calculated.

Mentioning this was intentional precisely because of the context and the heavy weight it carries. Fuck her.

[americanstranger]

33. Bingo. she's a goddamn LAWYER.

They are trained to only say what will advance the argument.

Nothing she says is a mis-speak. Lawyers' brains don't work like that.

- as

[redqueen]

32. Wow... post 27 was deleted within a minute.

Wonder what it said...

[LoZoccolo]

44. I'll PM you.

Of course I could have just PM'd you instead of telling you that I'm going to do it, but then maybe they wouldn't even realize that they can't stop me from saying whatever the fuck I want outside of these boards.

[AspenRose]

35. And don't expect her to apologize, either.

She never does.

[LoZoccolo]

40. Recommended. I had something else to say about Hillary, but it got deleted.

Guess people don't want to try to change my mind enough to keep me from telling other people what sort of despicable shit I think she's capable of and how low I think she'll sink to save her ass and/or gain power. Fine, I'll go along telling people what I think and they won't get a chance to stop me now. Fuck 'em, now I'll do it even more.

[Saturday]

50. Tizzy alert. nt

[LoZoccolo]

57. Yes, Hillary is throwing a huge tizzy. I agree. n/t

[kid a]

45. Thank You redqueen. I'm trying my hardest to give her the benefit of the doubt. But I keep coming

back to the question: Why the word?

She's done it before

Annihilate
Assassinate

[Yael]

72. Obliterate

[Divernan]

78. Why? Because she has a bottomless well of rage she redirects from Bill to the rest of the world

Have anyone's marriage vows ever been dragged through so much filth and mud as Bill has repeatedly done to their marriage? She's been blaming other women for his decisions/actions since early in their marriage, if not before. But deep down, because she is very intelligent, she knows Bill exercised control over all of his seductions/affairs - and each one of them has humiliated her - usually in public.

And according to Bernstein's book about HRC, her militaristic father repeatedly humiliated his meek wife, as well as his kids - and she's got all that seething resentment going back through her childhood. She never told her father off, and she never threw Bill out. She's like a volcano bubbling away, occasionally spewing some of that hatred and vitriol out.
Dissecting Hillary Clinton
June 8, 2007

Sen. Hillary Clinton is “very much a camouflaged woman” whose rewriting of her own history has created an inauthenticity that could be “problematic” for her presidential campaign, the author of her new biography said.

Carl Bernstein, who rocketed to fame with his coverage of the Watergate scandal, has penned “A Woman In Charge,” a 640-page tome based on interviews with more than 200 of Clinton’s friends, colleagues and critics. He said the former first lady’s 2003 autobiography, “Living History,” was full of “omissions (and) obfuscations.” (Watch Bernstein dissect how the autobiography differed from the reality as told by her friends ) “It is not mendacious,” Bernstein said. “It is a self-portrait as she would like to see herself, but it has very little to do with the full reality of her life. And what is so sad about it is, she is better than her own book. She is more interesting than her own book. It is a great story.”

One of those obfuscations was Clinton’s generally idyllic description of her childhood in Illinois, Bernstein said. “Her best friend from childhood, Betsy Ebeling, told me at great length … about how abusive (Clinton’s) father was of her mother, how he humiliated her,” Bernstein said. “Her father was a sour, unfulfilled man, a martinet.”

In her own book, even Clinton talked about how her father “didn’t like to spare the rod,” Bernstein noted. “She says in her book that she thought it was sometimes used excessively, and she tried to intervene on behalf of her brother,” he said.

Among the revelations in Bernstein’s book is that Clinton’s husband, former President Bill Clinton, wanted to end their marriage in 1989, when he was governor of Arkansas, because he was having an affair with another woman. But she refused. In his book, Bernstein wrote that “she would fight to keep her marriage and her family together. She had put too much of her own heart and mind and soul into her partnership with Bill to abandon it.”

The main source for the information was Betsey Wright, who was Bill Clinton’s chief-of-staff when he was governor, Bernstein said. It was Wright who famously coined the phrase “bimbo eruptions” to describe revelations about Clinton’s sexual wanderings that rocked his 1992 presidential campaign."

My final comment: Hillary seems to have followed in her father's footsteps in that she also is a sour and unfulfilled person. She can act out all the fake smiles in the world, but the tells are her calls to obliterate an entire nation; her blaming Bill's various girlfriends (none of them the sophisticated manipulators that Bill is) for his affairs; and now her conviction that it is worth squandering millions and millions of dollars on a lost campaign in the hope and expectation that someone - anyone- will kill her opponent.

[Fox Mulder]

67. Agreed.

[redqueen]

68. Tease!

;)

[Fox Mulder]

70. If you were in there the night I posted my pic...

you would've seen it. ;)

[butterfly77]

71. Exactly...

[Lone_Star_Dem]

74. If he hadn't been compared to RKF by the media

If the article by Kristol had never been printed in Time magazine.

(For those of you who don't recall this: That is why Barack Obama could well defeat Hillary Clinton for the nomination. It would be the victory Bobby Kennedy was denied by an assassin's bullet. Obama is, like Kennedy, a charismatic freshman Senator, running before his time but — supporters think — uniquely suited to the time. Obama follows Kennedy in being a bold liberal and a skeptic of simple ideological stances, a gifted politician and an antipolitician, a man familiar with the halls of power yet a charismatic critic of them.)

Then her words would not have as great a negative impact. As it is they're "unfortunate" at best.

[apocalypsehow]

75. Well-said and exactly right. K & R. n/t.

[David Zephyr]

80. Count me at your side.

I stand with you.

[LibertyorDeath]

86. Very well said

Rec!


"This is not happening in a bubble. There is context here, and pretending it's not there only makes the person doing the pretending look like an idiot or a shill.

For one thing, there's no reason to mention the assassination. If she's trying to make a point about late campaigning, then she should talk about his campaign. Fuckin DUH.

Furthermore, this is the first black candidate for president, and only the most idiotic of idiots could manage to somehow not see the context of unnecessary mentions of assassination in this primary race."