I'm sorry, but Clinton's argument that she's ahead in 'primary delegates' is UTTERLY SHAMELESS.

[Danger Mouse]

It's bad enough that she's claiming a lead in the popular vote by disenfranchising caucus states that she lost in, but she's also discounting the delegates chosen by caucus states to try and claims she's in the lead!
This is mind-blowingly stupid! Her strategy to win the nomination is to change the rules to suit her, to disenfranchise voters who didn't vote for her, and to lie and distort her way to victory.
It won't work, of course...it's a bullshit argument, not to mention distrespectful to all of the democratic voters who worked their asses off in those caucus states. However, it's the principle that she would try to claim victory using these faulty numbers.
It's not right. It's not cool. I don't like it.
I hope that she does the right thing and drops out right after June 3rd. Walk away with some dignity, and leave us with our best chances of victory in November.

[NJSecularist]

1. Obama's strategy of disenfranchising FL and Michigan is shameless. n/t

[Danger Mouse]

3. That's laughable at best. Obama wasn't responsible for that mess.

[NJSecularist]

5. He was responsible for smacking down any re-do's. n/t

[Danger Mouse]

7. Michigan itself couldn't agree on a re-do, which is the reason Obama gave for not supporting one...

and he was right. They couldn't even sort their own shit out.

[Richard Steele]

13. Have you ever even CONSIDERED making your assertations "non-laughable"? Even once?

nm

[casus belli]

21. That's not even remotely true, and you know it. n/t

[VolcanoJen]

22. Enough with this crap already.

The Florida and Michigan legislatures were responsible for nixing the re-do's. Any fool realizes that by now. There have been many excellent posts about it here on DU, mostly written by madfloridian and TahitiNut.

Listen and learn. Your talking points have been debunked over, and over, and over. It's growing so very tired.

[ChairmanAgnostic]

ignore is your friend. It certainly is mine.

care to join me?

[VolcanoJen]

31. Naw, I don't use ignore.

I think these folks should be out on record and called out whereever necessary.

It's annoying and messy, but so very necessary these days. :patriot:

[salguine]

50. Why should there be a re-do?

Or a "resolution"? There's nothing to resolve. She agreed with all the others regarding Michigan and Florida. Period. Now she wants to change the rules she herself agreed to? She doesn't feel the least shame about wanting to count a state where she was the only one on the ballot? I'm so sick of her shit I can literally not stand the fucking sight of her. I hope she loses her Senate seat too, and she and Bill go the fuck away forever.

[cascadiance]

55. NO! That is a lie too! HER CAMPAIGN stopped the proposed caucus "redo"s of these states...

She'll argue that they tried to throw a system she doesn't do as well in (a caucus). But there was the argument that a caucus was a means of cheaply doing a redo for the initial f'd up elections in those states.

Bottom line is that Clinton campaign wanted to be able to THEMSELVES tell what set of rules that our elections were working under so that they could win, not respect the set of rules that the party wanted to put in/keep in place.

[DemVet]

44. No, he wasn't responsible, but he sure as hell doesn't want their votes to count, does he?

[cascadiance]

56. He doesn't want the votes in a facade that was called an election to be allowed.

If someone suddenly said, well maybe we'll have a parallel poll and then postfacto endorse THAT as an election result, don't you understand why that is a problem?

Noone here I think would have discounted a truly democratic election that followed the rules of the party being endorsed for these states. That wasn't the plan, and if there was a realistic shot at doing a couple of "redos", I would think that Obama and everyone else here would support it.

[Honeycombe8]

6. Obama hasn't disenfranchised anyone. He doesn't have that kind of power. ??? nt

[gabeana]

10. you are a shameless hack

"When Michigan and Florida moved their primaries ahead of the dates set by the Democratic National Committee, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton supported the party's decision to strip those states of their delegates.

Democratic Party officials are meeting this weekend to decide the fate of those delegates, and Clinton's campaign has been pressing to get at least some of them back. Clinton won both states, and having delegates reinstated would help her numbers.

But the senator's position on the delegate issue has shifted over time.

In September 2007, the crowd of Democrats running for president signed a pledge not to campaign in Florida or Michigan. The Democratic Party had punished those states for shifting their primaries and diluting the importance of early-voting states such as Iowa and New Hampshire.

At the time, Clinton was the front-runner, and she signed the pledge. Most candidates, like Illinois Sen. Barack Obama and former North Carolina Sen. John Edwards, went so far as to take their names off the ballot in Michigan. Clinton left hers on the ballot. During an interview on New Hampshire Public Radio, a caller asked Clinton what was up."

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=90907222&ft=1&f=1001

[MidwestTransplant]

15. The facts chased the hack away.

[Richard Steele]

25. Nah, facts don't bother this one. His mommy heard him typing and sent him back to bed. nm

[Richard Steele]

11. Just as correct as you've ever been, NJ.

:eyes:

[zulchzulu]

18. Question for you: did Hillary Clinton agree to the Four State Pledge?

Of course you know she did. Back on September 1, 2007 when she agreed to the pledge, she thought it was going to be all done by Super Tuesday. She is even recorded saying that the Michigan votes won't count.

To even think Obama has anything to do with the Democratic Party officials in Florida and Michigan who decided to break the Four State Pledge is either coming from some one who is stupid, dishonest or just a poor sport who wants to change the rules LONG AFTER THEY WERE SET.

It's over. Obama WILL be our next president whether you like it or not.

[cliffordu]

29. Again with the lie. The bright, shining, lie.

[Warren Stupidity]

43. Obama's strategy?

Refresh my memory, but didn't Clinton agree to the rules, including the rules for MI and FLA back when she was the inevitable nominee that was going to wrap it all up by super tuesday? So it was ok to 'disenfranchise MI and FLA' back then, now not so much?

[Carl Yasutomo]

45. Yep, Obama FORCED those states to break the rules,

and then he forced Hillary to agree to the rules!

Despicable!

[billyoc]

46. Strategy.

:rofl:

[Lerkfish]

51. um, yeah, it was HIS conspiracy all along. pass the bong, ok?

its helpful if you guys would even put one toe in the reality pool before posting.

[sniffa]

60. Does Ignored get the good stuff?

If so, I'm there. :smoke:

[seabeyond]

52. you are not being honest or factual. regardless, how doe it justify hillary lying and

the op post. my kids dont even get away with shifting subject and blame to not own what they are doing

[Raineyb]

59. Yawn!

You're like a broken piano playing one lousy note.

Do you have anything that resembles evidence to prove the viability of your candidate?

Oh no of course not because there isn't any.

Just get some cheese to go with that whine. It'll make it go down easier for you.

Regards

[Richard Steele]

2. Not a gaffe, not a mistake, not a slip...it's yet another deliberate whopping LIE.

Disgusting and sad.

[Danger Mouse]

4. There's no weaseling out of it for her. Those were her exact words.

Send it to the media, let the voters in those causus states know how Clinton feels about them.

[Window]

54. Exactly! A gigantic LIE! Period.

[XemaSab]

8. Dignity, thy name is not Hillary

x(

[Danger Mouse]

12. I was just re-gaining some respect for her...and she goes and does this...

and poof! All gone.

[VolcanoJen]

23. SNL pretty much nailed it.

"I am a sore loser."
"I have no ethical standards."

And I'll even leave out the third one, even though it was pretty funny.

[LoZoccolo]

9. She is going to start claiming to be ahead in "imaginary delegates" next week. n/t

[Danger Mouse]

14. What about the 50 Moon Delegates that are up for grabs? I hear they're leaning heavily..

towards Clinton.

[gabeana]

16. What did I miss

when did she claim lead in Primary delegates? if this is so she is loony

[Ravy]

17. She actually claimed that she led in delegates that were picked in primaries,

which I took to mean as opposed to caucuses.

[gabeana]

20. Why do Primary delegates count more than caucus delegates? n/t

[Ravy]

26. I don't think that they do...

but she has had a long standing argument that caucuses are not representative of the people's will. I would guess this is just a continuation of that.

[gabeana]

30. I'm sorry I should have been mor clear

I was being sarcastic

[Danger Mouse]

39. I'm sure the voters in caucus states would be thrilled to learn...

that according to Clinton, their votes don't matter.

[Ravy]

40. The fact is, their votes matter far more than those of primary states.

When a delegate/vote formula is applied.

They just aren't built to allow everyone equal opportunity to vote.

[Bjorn Against]

53. Long-standing as in since she started losing them...

I sure don't remember her speaking out against caucuses when she was ahead, this "long-standing" argument of hers seems to have just come about when she started losing.

[electron_blue]

47. votes in caucuses probably went more to Obama than they would have otherwise

had there been a primary instead, due to how his supporters mobilized. But Hillary knew the rules going in and she could have gone after these votes, too. From what I can tell she focused on primary states and largely blew off caucus states, which was a mistake.

[Imagevision]

19. Hillary, wishful thinking and nothing more.

[VolcanoJen]

24. We are being totally unfair to Clinton.

The right thing to do here would be to annex more states. }(

[NanceGreggs]

37. ...

... :rofl:

[Warren DeMontague]

27. She's ahead in shameless bullshit, that's for sure.

Can't deny her that lead.

[ObamaKerryDem]

28. K&R!

Could not agree more! I guess the lesson they want us to take away from all this is if the states went for Hillary,count them. If not, the hell with them. It's her..or no one. :eyes:

Disingenuous at BEST. More like hypocritical and complete bullshit. And then she has the nerve to compare it to the crushing injustice that was the 2000 election? Unfuckingbelievable. :grr:

This argument better get laughed out of the room during those meetings..

[CitizenLeft]

32. what's really sad is that she's being laughed at and ridiculed.

When the late night shows make fun of her across the board for her ridiculous arguments that make no sense, and are not even fact-based, it's time to rethink the talking points. But I guess those are the very people Bill says are "pushing her out of the race." :eyes:

For cryin' out loud.

[CakeGrrl]

33. It makes me wonder whether it's just plain shamelessness or desperation or

just heading off the rails...

Why would she lie so blatantly? The supers and the DNC know she's making this stuff up, so what is her purpose? To program some of her easily fooled followers to believe that this nomination is being "stolen" from her?

That's the only point I can see to all of this. Pretty disgusting to divide the party as much as she can on her way out.

[AtomicKitten]

34. Good gawd almighty, somebody get a net.

She has truly lost her mind on this one.

[provis99]

35. I guess caucus delegates are dead to her and her supporters. n/t

[SemiCharmedQuark]

36. When did she say this?

[Danger Mouse]

38. in a letter to the superdels.

[GoesTo11]

41. Her argument isn't even true

I count Obama ahead by 96 caucus delegates and 64 primary delegates.

She must be counting 100% of FL and MI for herself and giving Obama no delegates for MI.

Since caucuses have much lower vote totals than primaries, this is just the same argument as her popular vote argument again anyway.

She's not presenting a logical case, just a kitchen sink of arguments.

[Danger Mouse]

42. kick for the morning.

[DeeDeeNY]

48. The dignity train has left the station

[salguine]

49. Isn't there anything the party can do...

...to finally put an end to her juvenile bullshit and make her stop and shut the fuck up and go away?

[Danger Mouse]

58. Pelosi will endorse Obama after June 3rd...after that, it's only a matter of time.

[Danger Mouse]

57. Kick for the afternoon, too.

:)