Hillary can't drop out because she has no future in NY after losing African Americans

[grassfed]

After Obama's unexpected successes Hillary and Bill made a high stakes do-or-die decision. Their data suggested she could rebound with a racially tinged kitchen sink strategy but at a cost, she would lose the African American vote and with it her Senate seat and hopes for NY Governor if the presidency didn't pan out. They decided to go for it. She will not drop out and will have a stranglehold on the convention, suffocating Obama. I hope someone can prove me wrong.

[John Q. Citizen]

1. Are you a betting man? Or woman?

[casus belli]

2. Hillary may very well have permanently damaged her future political prospects.

Time will tell.

[XemaSab]

4. If she even cares about them...

It wouldn't surprise me if she didn't run for another term in the senate. :shrug:

[casus belli]

8. Interesting idea...

but I'm not entirely sure she is capable of divorcing herself from political office. She seems to think it is her calling to be a politician. She talks as if she's the only person who truly "gets it" when it comes to representing the "average American", and I get the impression she believes her own hype.

[hogwyld]

73. For Hillary, the senate was nothing more than

a springboard to be used in pursuit of the presidency. Once that goal is gone, there's no reason for her to humor the little senatorial heathen that don't thank the gods every day for the priveledge of her presence.

[Cha]

3. bilary gambled, they lost ..

Now they are in deep denial..who's gonna break it to them?

[Stephanie]

5. She has lost progressives, she has lost the anti-war vote, the youth, the educated...

She has lost the vote of all decent people who prize honesty and fairness.

[IsItJustMe]

81. I don't know about educated, I have some, but she lost me on honesty.

[kevinbgoode]

95. Bingo!

That is precisely where she lost me.

[Double T]

6. HRC will easily RETAIN the AA vote in New York.

There was NEVER an issue or 'problem' with race UNTIL BO came on the scene. Racists come in ALL COLORS as WE will soon see!

[grassfed]

9. Obama was the first post-racial candidate until Bill and Hillary got busy

But dream on if you must

[nxylas]

62. Double T obviously gets his view of race from Kelly cartoons

[Double T]

75. When race dominates the focus of a politic campaign WHEN our nation is in crumbling ruins...........

it seems to me that the PRIORITIES FOR ALL AMERICANS are NOW totally screwed up!!!! Some Democrats have a bitch of a time keeping their eye on the ball; constantly swinging and missing the most IMPORTANT POINTS! Incidentally, funny cartoon.

[IsItJustMe]

84. or Faux news.

[SeattleGirl]

10. Um, what?

How is Obama racist?

And as to the rest of your post, you sound racist, saying there was never a problem with race until Obama came on the scene. So, all non-whites need to stay out of the Presidential race? Is that what you're saying?

:eyes:

[Double T]

13. YOU and I can ALWAYS tell a lot about an individual by the company.......

THEY keep for 20 Years. Enough said.

[Doityourself]

45. And what does it say about Hillary that she kept Slick Willie around all this time..lmao

[Double T]

76. What did WJC do that was so damn wrong?

I can certainly think of a lot of things HE did right while in office.

[Doityourself]

101. You view him through your lense, and I shall view slickster through mine..

[MonkeyFunk]

106. There was a time

when using "Slick Willie" would've immediately identified the user as a freeper douchebag.

I miss those days.

[Doityourself]

109. There was a time, but it has come and gone..slick willie is the douche bag now..baby girl

[HiFructosePronSyrup]

52. I can tell a lot about you by what you think of Rev. Wright.

However, I'm not going to go around calling your friends and family racists.

[Double T]

77. Good idea. Some of my family members are AA and my grandson is multiracial and I know they would....

get testy over being called racists. I have NOT got a racist bone or hair in or on my body; Know that is VERY HARD for YOU to believe, BUT TRY!

[Raineyb]

83. Using all caps on certain words don't make them more true.

I find it hard to believe you don't have a racist bone in your body based on your own words. Perhaps there's a problem on the transmission end of the signal. Because on the receiving side it screams racist.

Regards

[Double T]

90. Everything checks out on this end. I believe SOME overmodulate.........

the use of 'racist' and 'racism' because it is easy and THEY think YOU will go away! Sorry, I'm still here 'cause the race card isn't going to work!

[Raineyb]

103. You are the one who seems to have issues with race

I don't give a damn if you go away or not. But your racist bullshit is just that. A steaming pile of racist bovine excrement.

And the phrase "the race card" is just more bullshit used by people who don't want to be called out on their bullshit.

"Some of my friends, family... are black, Asian, etc." Gee, how many times have I heard bigots say some permutation of that phrase; and it still doesn't ring true.

<insert fail picture here>

Regards

[IsItJustMe]

86. Yeah, I bet.

[Double T]

91. To be expected.

Reality is difficult for SOME!

[IsItJustMe]

85. I am a whitey and the Rev. is alright in my book. I don't know what the hell you are talking about.

[Double T]

92. Probably because YOU are NOT paying attention.

[JVS]

26. Obama is racist because his supporters didn't sit by idly while Bill and Hill tried to hang a big...

sign around his neck that said "colored". :eyes:

[SeattleGirl]

31. Oh.

I get it now.

:crazy:

[emilyg]

17. Some DU'ers don't understand that racists

come in all colors.

[ShortnFiery]

56. BUT in order to behave racist (discrimination) you must be "the man" and have the power.

Now let's all ask ourselves, other than the Billionaire Bozo President of BET, do AAs, as a group, TRULY hold *great power.*

That's what cracks me up: whites whining about blacks being racist to them. WTF is up with such inane logic? How are they HURTING YOU? Are they preventing you from getting a good job? Do their "poor neighborhoods" make you feel unsafe when you wander in theirs from your gated community? Do you feel "put out" because you don't sound so cool when you call your other women friends "bitch?"

IN WHAT WAY do "peoples of color" act RACIST (hold power) over you? Especially when, by percentages AA are over-represented in Prisons and Remedial Education Programs.

HOW have you, a middle class white person, *felt discrimination* = *racism* from the AA Community?!?

[Double T]

78. Thank YOU emilyg!! YES, like hypocrites THEY certainly DO!!!!

[genna]

32. By what logic? AA in NY have heard the same song and dance that everyone else has.

Point 1. What were the differences in the AA vote in NY between her senate race and the primary in NY?

Point 2. I don't think we would agree about what the term racist means?

Point 3. Why doesn't the congratulations and/or blame belong to HRC herself? What did BHO have to do with choose HRC's campaign strategy?

[ShortnFiery]

63. AA people tend to pick up on "the cues" - probably through GREATER ATTENTION

being paid toward them by the Police Forces and Prison Systems.

The Clintons were sued by the NAACP in 1989 for intimidating AA voters at the polls. The M$M didn't make note of this ... hum?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oRwZQLdhEw

[mamalone]

55. I beg to differ...

As a fellow Ny'er I must say that I think Hillary is going to have a huge problem holding on to her Senate seat. I barely know of anyone who supports her now... some are just very sad at what she's done and become this primary season, but most are just plain appalled and infuriated. My parents have been involved in the NY Dem party for years, my mom has adored her for years, and they both have stated that they feel Hillary needs to be gone.

She'll be facing some serious challenges when she comes up for reelection, if I'm not mistaken.

[iamthebandfanman]

59. she probably will retain the seat , but

not without a fight. and not without dragging all her dirt all over the lawn. was it worth it ? i doubt it. she did this to herself.

[Raineyb]

80. You do the AA electorate a disservice

when you imply that they had to be fed the idea that the Clintons were using racism to try to get ahead in the primaries.

Regards

[malletgirl02]

96. thank you for saying that

That is a meme that has been pissing me off for a while.

[Raineyb]

105. It's been frosting me for quite some time too.

Although I suspect that the message won't get through to a great many of the more rabid HRC supporters who have been using this meme for far too long.

Regards

[genna]

97. I doubt all AA had a meeting to figure out how we are served best

I am AA.

I doubt you speak for me.
I also doubt that you have a bead on what NY AA will do now that Hillary Clinton has said and done the things she did in this campaign.

If the state of NY AA are anything like the ones I speak to, HRC is done.

[Raineyb]

104. I didn't claim to speak for all AA.

But I do know that any AA who decided that the Clintons were using racism as a wedge to try to get ahead did so on their own and not because they were fed that idea by Obama or anyone else for that matter. And based on the bead that I get from the people I speak to I would also have to conclude that HRC is finished.

As we apparently agree I don't understand the response to my reply. I was merely pointing out that AA do not need someone to tell them who they should believe is or is not a racist. Or did I misunderstand something?

Regards

[AtomicKitten]

7. The Clintons aren't shy about saying win at all cost and then repair the damage.

But they've gone too far this time in turning the party inside-out to secure the nomination which she lost the end of February.

Any political damage they sustain will be entirely self-inflicted in a karmic sort of way.

[grassfed]

11. exactly.

[emilyg]

18. You sound like Sharon Stone.

[cliffordu]

24. lol. Nice one!!

[AtomicKitten]

47. I look like her too, circa 1990

[reflection]

50. link with pics?

:D

[AtomicKitten]

53. on a bad day

:D

[reflection]

58. I gotta go to the restroom.

be back in a minute. :D

[ShortnFiery]

67. Stay Classy.

:evilgrin:

[ShortnFiery]

66. Oh I didn't realize that you are so lovely AK. Nice PIC.

:-) :hi:

[AtomicKitten]

71. thank you so much

I don't like to brag. :D

:hi:

[Orangepeel]

12. nah, most Democrats (white, black or other) don't really hate her

the vast majority of New York democrats, including African American, will come back around to her for her next senate race, just like most democrats will come around to Obama in November.

Us political hacks are sick of her, but most people aren't as involved as DUers.

[FrenchieCat]

19. If you don't understand how many people are closely following this race....

you'll be surprised.

I was talking to my areobics trainer today.....and she's followed everything. I was shocked.

She can't stand Hillary Clinton anymore in a very contemptious way. We had not really talked politics before, although I had mentioned in passing that I supported Obama a few months ago.

[Orangepeel]

38. I know it is a lot. But I have to believe they'll come around our we're fucked.

:shrug:

[Raineyb]

87. Not necessarily

We can find a true progressive to run against her in the primary and still retain the seat.

It's not like the Republican party of NY is so strong right now. We actually have a chance to take back the state senate.

Regards

[windbreeze]

41. I don't know what to think about it..

the other day I was in a little mom/pop store in my rural area...the owner asked me who I was backing for president(we talk politics every now and again)...and omg...all of a sudden everyone in the store started talking about Clinton, and how she shouldn't be allowed back in office because of her actions, described as childish, over emotional, no place for them in office...and on and on...these things were being said by men that I would have expected to find firmly in her camp..I don't know if I was more surprised at the input from these guys, or that people around this area were so tuned in to what is going on, and were willing to jump right into a conversation and express how they felt....will these guys forget??? I'm not sure, but I wouldn't count on it...she and Bill may have done irreparable damage with their all or nothing campaign...remains to be seen, I guess...wb

[Orangepeel]

42. I don't know either. Of course, our perceptions are based on our own experiences

I know Obama supporters who are frustrated and mad at Clinton, but it doesn't approach irreparable damage (it might, if she doesn't drop out after all the primaries are over).

And, when I look at poll information, it doesn't seem like the vitriol is widespread. The last poll I saw on the topic showed that a majority of African Americans, for example, wanted her as VP. I assume that New Yorkers aren't as angry at her as the rest of the country, but maybe it's the opposite.

:shrug:

[DJ13]

14. Her Senate seat has NEVER been her goal

It was always just resume padding for her run for the WH.

If Obama goes on and wins the Presidency she will have no further need to remain in politics when she comes up for reelection in 2012.

Im not even sure she would finish out her current term at that point.

If she's successful in her attempt to sink Obama's chance for the GE she plans on running for President again, and she still wont care about her chance of being reelected to her NY Senate seat.

[Muttocracy]

16. yes, from a resident of the Stepping Stone State. nt

[GoesTo11]

25. True dat.

She and Bill will go off and make big $, traveling the world - separately, lobbying a little (it's possible she would serve out her term so Bill can lobby for more $), and giving speeches to adoring audiences.

Why would someone with as high an opinion of herself as Hillary want to be a lowly junior senator? Ooh, it's so degrading.

Also, from other posts, it does seem likely that if a strong African-American candidate opposed her for the seat, she would lose it. And in politics, if there's an opening, someone will take it.

[Occam Bandage]

15. She'll have plenty of time to repair the damage to her brand.

[genna]

33. Has the DixieCrat brand found a revival after 1968? How's that brand of conservative

working for AA?

If you did an analysis on race politics would you say AA are pretty forgiving when we discover we have been taken for a ride?


It's my experience that we pass stories down from generations about how we've been treated as a political tool.

[LordJFT]

20. She still won every county in ny except tompkins and believe me

she didn't lose tompkins because of the aa vote. The only way she's losing her senate seat is if she faces a strong primary challenge.

[grassfed]

46. she won NY before the race baiting in SC

this sealed her fate with African Americans
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6RmXTlhY4

[LordJFT]

98. nope SC was before ny, although her race-baiting did get even worse after super tuesday

[funflower]

21. Unless someone challenges her in the primary, NY African-Americans

will have to choose between HRC and the republican nominee.

[George_Bonanza]

22. Aren't NY Republicans pretty liberal though?

What if her opponent was someone like Bloomberg?

[funflower]

23. You've got a point.....

If people get mad enough they may choose someone like him.

[JVS]

27. Then she could be in deep shit.

She was lucky Giuliani had to deal with cancer and she got put up agaist Lazio in 2000

[Hippo_Tron]

29. Yea that's one thing that always bothered me about the "Hillary is tested" argument

Rick Lazio admittedly wasn't as terrible of an opponent as Alan Keyes, but he was pretty close and additionally Gore carried New York by like 15-20 points that year.

Obama's strength was also shown in the fact that he didn't just beat Keyes, he got over 70% of the vote. Even if Obama had run against the best the GOP could've put up (probably Mike Ditka) he would've won by at least 10 points.

[JVS]

30. Does anyone have the Jack Ryan vs. Obama polling from before Ryan's scandal busted wide open?

[madrchsod]

37. ryan was around 45%

it would have been a good race because ryan was a "liberal" republican. obama would have won because chicago and other "democratic cities" tend to out vote solid republican counties in illinois

[Hippo_Tron]

48. That polling was also before Obama's convention speech

[jsmirman]

40. Bloomberg would DESTROY her

he's a Dem, anyway, but he'd get votes from supporters of both parties.

[Hippo_Tron]

28. Oye, here we go again

Obama supporter starts a thread accusing the Clintons of race baiting. Then a Clinton supporter comes in and says no no, it was Obama that race baited.

Here's how it really went down.

Clinton made some remarks and the MSM, particularly the punditry on MSNBC made a huge deal out of them. Dan Abrams had some very good coverage about how blown out of proportion that whole thing was. Obama did not come to her defense, because when you're campaigning against someone you don't defend them.

Likewise when the Jeremiah Wright stuff came out, the MSM also blew that up and made a huge deal out of it. Clinton likewise did not come to Obama's defense, because when you're campaigning against someone you don't defend them.

In summary, the MSM is the real culprit as far as race baiting goes. Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama are both smart enough to know that you can't win the presidency as a Democrat without a combination of black and white voters. They would not intentionally alienate a sizable chunk of their electorate. The MSM is trying to divide the party so that they can get ratings and also to hand the election to McGramps.

[genna]

34. the MSM didn't force Clinton surrogates to use race as a proxy

The MSM didn't go throughout the lands saying BHO could never win/would not win.

The MSM didn't say Obama gave a speech while the Republican was qualified.

Alone and by themselves there wasn't enough to say racial lines had been crossed.

It was numerous and unnecessary issues raised with racial overtones that did it.


Why is BHO responsible for MSM sexism, but HRC isn't responsible for her own campaign surrogates' racial bait?

Can't we at least agree that those overtones have been blatant?

[grassfed]

51. see for yourself

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=te6RmXTlhY4

[Hippo_Tron]

57. I've already seen it plenty of times

You have your opinion, I have mine. The Clintons aren't stupid enough to intentionally alienate black voters.

Stating in that white people won't vote for Obama is stupid, but not race baiting.

This is race baiting http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EC9j6Wfdq3o

[grassfed]

64. I'm sorry your candidate let you down

[Hippo_Tron]

70. I'm an Obama supporter

I just refuse to subscribe to the hate-Clinton mentality of some people here. I think she is an extraordinary public servant and will do a wonderful job continuing to serve New York in the Senate.

[grassfed]

72. African Americans know it when they see it

and they see it in the Clinton campaign. No question.

[Hippo_Tron]

74. Not the ones I met canvassing for Obama

Many of them felt that Hillary should be VP.

[bvar22]

79. If it would give them big wins....

...in racist strongholds like WV, Ky, and a hunk of Indiana, the Clintons would NOT hesitate to use racially divisive (racist) politics.
The would not hesitate, and they did not hesitate.

IMO, a racist is ignorant. Someone who uses racism for personal gain is immoral.
They KNEW better.


"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[AllentownJake]

35. She may face a Primary Opponent

and depending on how her behavior is post June 3 will depend how well funded that candidate will be.

[SoCalDem]

36. She only "needed" that job to position herself for the presidency

You really think she ENJOYS being the "junior" senator from NY..1 of 100?

Not in a million years.. She's pissed because she spent 7+ years kissing every ass she could find, so they would "LIKE her..really like her"...and it turns out they DON'T..:rofl:

She'll probably elbow Patterson out of her way, and become governor.

I really don't see her going back to the senate, chastened, and ready to be pals with so many senators who chose "the other one"

[wowimthere]

69. absolutely correct. She wanted to be senator as a prelude to the presidency

[truebrit71]

39. I know that I will be actively supporting anyone that runs against her in a primary challenge...

...I am sick and tired of centrist DINO's allowing this country to get screwed over...

[Skidmore]

43. For even attempting to introduce the Southern Strategy into the Democratic Party process,

she deserves to lose.

[barack the house]

44. It is the most insane strategy ever it can't make for good work relations either.

[ShortnFiery]

49. HRC isn't doing too well with the LIBERAL wing of the NY State Democratic Party either.

:thumbsdown:

[Zynx]

54. African Americans are 15% of NY State and probably 25-30% of the Democrats.

She can survive if that's her only problem. If she faces a well funded challenger with other bases of support, she could be in trouble.

[grassfed]

60. Fatal damage to Hillary in NY electorate

"AA vote" encompasses like-minded non African Americans in the calculations of political statisticians

[ShortnFiery]

65. Amen. Inclusive of both liberal and conservative (some social issues) democratic Americans.

[Thrill]

61. I heard Laurence O'Donnell say she has a lot of work to do in NY

when this is over. He didn't say she had no future there

[wowimthere]

68. If she thinks she can get Obama supporters of all stripes and African Americans back

on her side, she will be in for a rude awakening. She has shown her true colors and people don't like what they see in her.

[JoFerret]

82. Rubbish

get back to beef farming.

[bvar22]

88. Don't forget, Hillary attacked "The Bloggers and MoveON",

blaming them (us) for her poor performance in Campaign 2008.
The "nutroots" could be instrumental in ousting her from her seat.

Unless Hillary abandons her buddies in the DLC and becomes a Liberal advocate in the Senate, I will be donating to her Primary challenger.

I heard NYers can be really cold when they find out they have been scammed by a carpetbagger.



"There are forces within the Democratic Party who want us to sound like kinder, gentler Republicans. I want us to compete for that great mass of voters that want a party that will stand up for working Americans, family farmers, and people who haven't felt the benefits of the economic upturn."---Paul Wellstone

[Bensthename]

89. If she cant have the power of the WH she wont take anything else.

[ElsewheresDaughter]

93. you don't know what you're talking about

[ccharles000]

94. I think Hillary will be great with whatever she does.

[autorank]

99. Sorry, you're right

She's on a mission, like she's programmed.

It is highly destructive. If she does a floor fight hangs on after Oregon,
she will deservedly be labeled as Republican collaborator, without any doubt.

It is her choice.

I think a floor fight might expose her to a recall petition but look:
-----------------------------
You Can't Recall Senators

Published: July 13, 2001

To the Editor:

I was surprised to learn of an effort by Arizonans to recall Senator John McCain from the United States Senate (news article, July 11). The Constitution explicitly grants each senator a six-year term, and no state has the right to terminate a senator before his time is up.

A few years ago, the Supreme Court struck down state laws imposing term limits on members of the House of Representatives. A similar logic applies to the attempt by states to alter senatorial terms. Any effort to recall any senator is unconstitutional.

BRUCE ACKERMAN
New Haven, July 11, 2001

The writer is a professor of constitutional law at Yale University.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9C07E6DE143BF930A25754C0A9679C8B63
----------------

[Beacool]

100. Oh yeah, because the AA vote is the only support that counts anymore.

Please, get a grip!!!

[JVS]

107. Since white voters generally lean republican, democrats need strong support from african americans

piss off AA voters, and you won't be able to overcome the GOP lead among white people

it's similar to how we also need women to turn out in numbers because men lean a bit more to the republicans.

[invictus]

102. Kick!

[eilen]

108. She will probably get reelected

I talked to my cousin who is a staffer for one of the state assemblymen and asked him as he is pretty familiar with the state party. He says that most likely Hilary will continue. He couldn't see the party not endorsing her. Unless Andrew Cuomo ran against her in primary but he is her supporter. Basically it would be up to the Republican party to run someone stronger against her. With the state leaning towards a Democratic majority, I would have to wonder who that would be. Our Congressman James Walsh (R) is not running again and I'm sure a Democrat will win that seat.

Previously I thought that she could be out of her office in her next election but now I am not so sure although a visit to my extended family showed strong support for Obama. These relatives live in the Capital Region and Long Island (white, middle class, 30's to mid 60's in age, Irish/British heritage, Catholic demographic, 6 male, 5 female, also there were 3 college students who were also supporting Obama--if that means anything).

[dailykoff]

110. Look what happened to Spitzer.

My take? They're both headed for the ranch by 2010. Pure dead weight, and the Obamas don't need dead weight.