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peacebaby3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:03 PM
Original message
Has anyone already debunked this yet?
I've been trying to get my sister to vote Obama, but she's very anti-abortion and has been on the fence simply because of that issue. I've explained Obama's position several times, but she gets a lot of those spam e-mails and has now forwarded this to me asking if it's true. I did a quick search with some of the info from this e-mail and didn't find anything specific.

I don't have time to take each one of these issues and debunk them today even though I've already done it for #6 and how he had specific language placed in the Dem platform at the DNC which would undermine the claim of #5 with her before. I'm just about at the point to tell her to vote McCain and get it over with, but I thought I'd check here to see if anyone had seen this before and saw a link that debunks. I don't know anything except what she sent me.

Thanks.



Here's the crap in the e-mail:

1. Obama "has promised to seek repeal of the Hyde Amendment, which has for many years protected pro-life citizens from having to pay for abortions that are not necessary to save the life of the mother and are not the result of rape or incest."

2. Obama has promised that “the first thing I’d do as President is sign the Freedom of Choice Act” ( FOCA). This would make abortion a federally guaranteed right through all nine months of pregnancy for any reason. Virtually every state and federal limitation on abortion that is currently on the books would be abolished (e.g., parental consent and notification laws for minors).

3. Obama opposes the ban on the heinous practice of partial-birth abortion and strongly disagreed with the Supreme Court ruling to uphold the ban.

4. Obama wishes to strip federal funding from pro-life crisis pregnancy centers that provide alternatives to abortion for pregnant women in need.

5. Obama refused to support the pro-life Democrats' “95-10” legislation (designed to reduce the number of abortions by 95% in 10 years by strengthening the social safety net for poor women). This would not have made abortion illegal; it would seek to reduce abortion.

6. Obama "opposed legislation to protect children who are born alive, either as a result of an abortionist’s unsuccessful effort to kill them in the womb, or by the deliberate delivery of the baby prior to viability." The bill contained a specific provision that ensured that the bill would not affect abortion laws (Obama and his campaign lied about this fact until it was proven in the records).

7. Obama has co-sponsored a bill authorizing the large-scale industrial production of human embryos for use in biomedical research in which they would be killed. It would require the killing of human beings in the embryonic stage that were produced by cloning, and would make it a federal crime for a woman to save an embryo by agreeing to have the tiny developing human being implanted in her womb so that he or she could be brought to term.

8. Obama was one of the few senators to oppose a bill that would have put a modest amount of federal money into research that would develop methods to produce the exact equivalent of embryonic stem cells without using (or producing) embryos. "From any rational vantage point, this is unconscionable. . . . Why create and kill human embryos when there are alternatives that do not require the taking of nascent human lives? It is as if Obama is opposed to stem-cell research unless it involves killing human embryos."


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Ozma Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:06 PM
Response to Original message
1. Tell your sister that if she doesn't want an abortion, she doesn't have to thave one.
Then tell her not to interfere with the rights of other Americans on her campaign to enforce her moral and religious beliefs upon 300,000,000 Americans. She's not the queen!
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zbdent Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:52 PM
Response to Reply #1
20. nobody forces a woman to have an abortion
except maybe the father of the child, or the parents of the underage female, when they don't like the "father" of the child.

Now, I'm not too sure that the one Bush daughter had an "appendectomy" in December 2000 ... remember, she was quite a party girl, drinking while under 18 (let alone 21) ... I wonder if the doctor performing the "appendectomy" recognized a previous "appendectomy" scar ...
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:07 PM
Response to Original message
2. First of all, abortion is mostly a state, not a federal, matter.
Second, if she's so against abortion, she needs to vote for Obama because the abortion rate goes DOWN not UP during Democratic administrations.

And third, she needs to go to Snopes if she really believes the crazy cr@p in this email.

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peacebaby3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:12 PM
Response to Reply #2
9. Is there a link for this e-mail on Snopes? I didn't see it. Thanks. n/t
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EFerrari Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:26 PM
Response to Reply #9
18. You or better, she can use key words, like partial birth abortion Obama
and get results at Snopes.

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peacebaby3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:37 PM
Response to Reply #18
19. Yea, I did. I got the info about the IL senate bill/infanticide, but not much else.
I did find that the 1st item, Hyde Amendment, is renewed annually and FOCA wouldn't get rid of it, but he does support FOCA which would strip many of the anti-abortion laws already in place (which I support, but she doesn't.)

Thanks for the suggestion.

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Ian David Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:08 PM
Response to Original message
3. See
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
4. Um, we don't have time to debunk it either. Google is your friend.
Tell your sister to vote for whoever she wants. At this point, if she's that hung up on abortion.. to the point of believing every stupid-ass chain mail she gets, then no one here will help her.

And not to be mean, but I'm tired of seeing people post every stupid fucking chain email like that here asking us to debunk. Google is your friend. In the time it took you to post that, you could have debunked it yourself.
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DefenseLawyer Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:09 PM
Response to Original message
5. Well at least you got to reprint an ENTIRE Anti-Obama smear e-mail
in your post. Bravo! You and your sister be sure to have a nice day.
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progressivebydesign Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:09 PM
Response to Reply #5
6. WORD. n/t
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:10 PM
Response to Original message
7. Has your sister adopted many children?
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Sweet Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:11 PM
Response to Original message
8. Remind her that
the while the republicans have been in power they have done nothing to sucessfully outlaw abortion.
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4lbs Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:20 PM
Response to Reply #8
13. True. Tell her that from 2001-2006, Republican George Bush had a Republican Congress and
for some reason, the Republicans decided not to pass an amendment outlawing abortion. They also had a Republican leaning Supreme Court to back them up in the first challenge against such a new law.

Think maybe the abortion issue better serves the Republican party as a wedge and campaign issue than actually doing something about it?
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Sweet Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:13 PM
Response to Original message
10. Then send her this
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Sweet Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:15 PM
Response to Reply #10
11. moved
Edited on Mon Nov-03-08 01:16 PM by dist22dem
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Sweet Freedom Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:16 PM
Response to Original message
12. from the campaign
Some people just don’t care who they hurt to advance their political agenda.

Accusing a loving father of two beautiful little girls of wanting to kill babies isn’t just wrong on the facts, it’s the most disgusting and manipulative kind of hate politics around. But anti-abortion ideologues with a long history of partisan attacks are still launching unconscionable ads smearing Barack Obama.

The attackers torture and twist logic and history by willfully misinterpreting votes by Barack Obama in the Illinois State Senate to come up with their wild accusation.

Here’s the truth about Barack Obama and the bill:

At the time Barack voted against a bill containing language designed to protect infants who were “born alive,” such protection was already on the books as Illinois state law.<1>
The accusations against Barack are so reckless that not even the Republican state senator who sponsored the bill will support them. In fact, he freely admits that “None of those who voted against SB-1082 favored infanticide.”<2>
The bill was opposed by many legislators and groups like the Illinois Medical Society because of the unintended impact it would have had on other laws and legal precedents in Illinois.<3>
Barack is on the record<3> saying that he would have supported a similar bill that came up in Congress -- but that didn’t pose a threat to a woman’s right to choose the way the Illinois bill did.<4>
1. FACT
Illinois Law Stated That A Doctor Must Preserve The Life And Health Of A Fetus If In The Course Of An Abortion, There Is Reasonable Likelihood Of Sustained Survival. The Illinois Compiled Statutes stated that any physician who intentionally performs an abortion when, in his medical judgment based on the particular facts of the case before him, there is a reasonable likelihood of sustained survival of the fetus outside the womb, with or without artificial support, shall utilize that method of abortion which, of those he knows to be available, is in his medical judgment most likely to preserve the life and health of the fetus. No abortion shall be performed or induced when the fetus is viable unless there is in attendance a physician other than the physician performing or inducing the abortion who shall take control of and provide immediate medical care for any child born alive as a result of the abortion. Subsequent to the abortion, if a child is born alive, the physician required to be in attendance shall exercise the same degree of professional skill, care and diligence to preserve the life and health of the child as would be required of a physician providing immediate medical care to a child born alive in the course of a pregnancy termination which was not an abortion. Violation of these statutes constituted a Class 3 felony.

2. FACT
Republican Bill Sponsor Said “None Of Those Who Voted Against SB-1082 Favored Infanticide.” Rick Winkel, a Republican former state senator who sponsored the “Born Alive” bill, wrote in a Letter to the Editor, “None of those who voted against SB-1082 favored infanticide.”

3. FACT
The Illinois State Medical Society Opposed The Bill Because It Interfered With The Physician-Patient Relationship And Greatly Expanded Civil Liability For Physicians. “The Illinois State Medical Society, which also fought the legislation and was cited by Mr. Obama on Saturday in his defense of his position, said in a statement that it opposed the package of bills, first introduced in 2001, “because they interfered negatively with the physician-patient relationship, attempted to dictate the practice of medicine for neonatal care and greatly expanded civil liability for physicians.” Obama Said He Would Have Supported Federal Born-Alive Legislation. The Chicago Tribune reported, “Obama said that had he been in the US Senate two years ago, he would have voted for the Born-Alive Infants Protection Act, even though he voted against a state version of the proposal. The federal version was approved; the state version was not. Both measures required that if a fetus survived an abortion procedure, it must be considered a person. Backers argued it was necessary to protect a fetus if it showed signs of life after being separated from its mother…the difference between the state and federal versions, Obama explained, was that the state measure lacked the federal language clarifying that the act would not be used to undermine Roe vs. Wade.”

4. FACT
The 2003 Bill Had The Same Wording As The Federal Measure But Would “Have Had A Different Effect At The State Level…By Undermining Illinois’ Legal Precedents On Abortion.” The Chicago Tribune reported, “Supporters of abortion rights say Obama was right to oppose the 2003 bill, even though it had the same wording as the federal measure. The wording could have had a different effect at the state level, they say, by undermining Illinois' legal precedents on abortion. Once more, the key is the 1975 Illinois abortion law, which contains language that's similar but not identical to the later bill. The 2003 bill could have affected the way courts interpret the 1975 law, which Planned Parenthood and the Illinois State Medical Society contended could have far-reaching implications.”
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donheld Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
14. Ask her if she's as concerned for those who are already born
as she is the unborn.
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AlCzervik Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:21 PM
Response to Reply #14
16. love the fetus, hate the child, the gop motto.
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peacebaby3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:22 PM
Response to Reply #14
17. Yes, she is and she's also against the death penalty. I don't agree with her position on abortion,
but she is my sister and isn't evil.
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peacebaby3 Donating Member (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore Mon Nov-03-08 01:20 PM
Response to Original message
15. Ah, I see the hostile assholes are out in full force today. I simply asked if someone
here had already researched and debunked this and I get attacked or offered a bunch of opinions.

Thanks, DU. I used to come to this place for support from other Democrats, but looks like that no longer exists here.

To those of you in the minority that offered some help, thanks.
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