True or False: Karl Rove looks forward to gay marriage becoming an issue in '10 and '12

[Unsane]

discuss

[still_one]

1. I guess it will depend on each state, barring of course a move for a Constitutional ammendment

which I don't think will pass

The truth is the repukes are in shambles, between the somewhat rightwing, and the extreme pseudo-chrsitian r/w of their party

Until they settle that, they will lose

If the pseudo-christian wing of their party ends up victorious, they will also continue to lose

[tabbycat31]

20. I wouldnt put it past him

After all it's wedge issues like gay marriage and abortion that bring the social conservatives to the polls. And I wouldn't put anything past Turd Blossom.

Please please please Obama get your Attorney General to arrest the guy.

[still_one]

25. keep in mind those social conservatives did come out. The fact that we own the young

vote now, and probably for a while, doesn't bode will for rove and company

[last1standing]

2. True or False: The GLBT community should just forget about being treated like equals.

discuss.

[Unsane]

5. Discuss the prospect of advacing the equality agenda with Republicans in power.

[last1standing]

17. Discuss the prospect of advancing the equality agenda when even Democrats won't do it.

[Unsane]

21. They will at least appoint judges sympathetic to the cause.

[last1standing]

27. So we should just be quiet and hope someone 'gives' us our rights?

That worked so well for African-Americans, didn't it?

[Curtland1015]

3. The only things Karl looks forward to are 1) Lunch, and 2) His daily spongebath from "Mother".

That said. I'm sure Repubs hope it becomes an issue. I think it helped them in '04.

[rug]

4. Who cares what Rove thinks.

The travesty has to be corrected.

[Occam Bandage]

6. Who cares? Karl Rove is a douchebag and a failure with no remaining purpose in life. nt

[IndianaJones]

7. gays are threatening the '08 election...wait....the '10 and '12...hell...'14 and '16 too. nt.

[Occam Bandage]

8. Equality will be a wedge issue every year, so we might as well get started on

convincing people that equality isn't scary. Delaying that will only extend the amount of time the Republicans can use it against us.

[SwampG8r]

18. how are they multiplying?

seems strange



do i need the sarcasm thingee?

[Ozma]

9. Karl Rove is not worthy of discussion any more

Obama will legalize all marriages between people, of any gender, if they have known each other for more than 6 monts.....

This will make America better, and not allow people under 18 to be in a legal marriage, no matter what.......millions of new marriages, tens of thousands of children available for adoption from redneck couples who thought that they had a right to produce children and get married. Hundreds of thousands less divorces, and lots less children in broken homes....

Obama can do this, 2 years before the next election, what are you afraid of?

[Morning Dew]

38. On what planet can that occur?

nm

[Lex]

10. KARL ROVE is CRAP and a non-issue.

[OmahaBlueDog]

11. The fundies will push for a federal amendment defining marriage...

...and they will attempt to do so by encouraging states to call for a constitutional convention. The logic they will use is that the last election clearly shows where Americans stand on the issue, but the current congress won't "do the right thing."

The strategy could work. While you need 3/4 of the states to pass the amendment, you'd only need 2/3 to call for a convention. Even a convention that fails to pass an amendment could wreak political havoc for years to come. Additionally, if a convention were called, I could readily see a "while-we're-here" attempt to pass anti-abortion and flag desecrration amendments.

The question is whether the pressure to do this will come directly from the Republican party, of indirectly -- such as from righty talkers (Limbaugh) or fundies like James Dobson and D James Kennedy.

[Unsane]

13. That threat was avoided when all the props passed on Nov. 4th

Clearly, the voters are rejecting gay marriage, so the argument for a federal amendment is becoming increasingly moot.

Now, if the GLBT community continues to push for a slew of new referenda for '10 and '12, things could get dicey.

[OmahaBlueDog]

15. Disagree -- they'll point to places like Mass. as "still confusing this issue"

..and new referenda will be pushed.

The fundies aren't stupid. Things are as good as they're going to get for them on the SCOTUS for the foreseeable future, and they know they possibly could get a Federal amendment passed now, and there'd be very little chance of reversing it in our lifetimes.

[salin]

12. false... please read before responding (or ignore altogether ;) )

one of the most disgusting tactics of the Rove machine in the past 8 years has to use the issue of demonizing and stripping gay americans of their rights as a "gimmick" to drive up religious right voters to the polls on even years. Why even years - these are the congressional and presidential election years. Other elections weren't key toward building Rove's desired "one-party rule" for at least a generation.

Cynically it worked early in this decade. But the trend was interupted in Arizona in 2006 when it was rejected. And while the dang thing passed in 2008 in California, it did NOT achieve the desired objective per Rove - it did not bring an electoral win to the republican candidate - not by a long shot.

Meanwhile the oonstant onslaught of attention these races have brought to the issue have led to a rather significant shift in the electorate's overall opinions. Think about this - it wasn't more (or much more) than six years ago that Governor Howard Dean was positioned to enforce a judicial ruling (IIRC) to allow civil unions for gay couples, that lead to his needing more extreme protection due to death threats. National sentiments were decidely against civil unions, let alone gay marriage.

In general - changes in the general population perceptions of major civil rights issues - do not change quickly, but rather very slowly/incrementally.

And while I view the Prop 8 vote as a huge setback - and a personal tragedy for a multitude of couples in California - I also see a major shift in popular perceptions. This was a close vote - and it wasn't nearly as close the last round. Simultaneously, many americans (the majority) are now comfortable with civil unions as a compromise. While I personally do not equate the two (civil unions and marriage) nor am I satisfied with settling with civil unions for my gay brothers and sisters, I do recognize that a political shift from strongly against civil unions just 6 years ago, to a national majority edge (if I recall more recent polling on the issue - I could be wrong, but don't think that my memory is failing me) is significant. And it represents a MOVING sentiment rather than a hard-felt/stagnant sentiment.

Please do not hear me justifying the vote in California. I am deeply saddened by it.

However the way these initiatives have cynically been used to try to "get out the vote" of religious right voters to maintain the repub majority... is in the past. I honestly think the days of using the stripping of civil rights of gay americans in order to try to solidfy blocks of voters is almost up. First, as a political ploy it is no longer working - it hasn't equated into electoral wins in contested places over the past two election cycles. More importantly, it seems that public opinion per the issue is in flux (ever changing) in this era and I believe that these shifts will continue and that in the very near future the majority which has decided that it can accept civil unions, even if it can not (yet) accept marraige, will keep moving toward becoming accepting of marriage overall. Given that reality (if it is a reality) - the use of the issue as a political strategy to increase rightwing voter turnout - has failed over the past four years, suggests to me that it will NOT be the rovian fear-tactic de jour in 2010 and 2012.

YMMV

[NorthernSpy]

24. the Florida anti-gay marriage measure went much farther -- and passed very easily...

... among all demographic groups -- whites, blacks, and Latinos. Which is probably one reason why you don't hear as much moaning about Florida, even though the laws in that state offer much more to moan about: there's no particular scapegoat population to focus on.

You mentioned Arizona in 2006? Well, last Tuesday, Arizonans DID pass their anti-gay marriage referendum, and by a bigger margin than Proposition 8 got in California.


One of the things that gives me a really bad feeling about all this is the success that the right has had in reaching out to some of our core constituencies on this issue. That complicates matters considerably.

[Unsane]

26. It could = one term for Obama

A caller on Ed Schultz said this last week.

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. Karl Rove's a loser...stop obsessing on what Karl Rove thinks

It's embarrassing.

[Uncle Joe]

16. Fuck Karl Rove and the Shetland Pony, he rode in on, a civil right is a civil right.

For whatever it's worth I'm a proud heterosexual, but I don't believe we should deny other people equal protection under the law, just because there is a genetic difference between our brains.

[Bobbie Jo]

19. That's the only way he can incite people to actually get out and vote for these losers. nt

[Liberal Gramma]

22. So...who is it he wants to marry? Jeff Gannon?

[quakerboy]

23. True or False: Rove is a Poo Puppet.

[jonnyblitz]

28. Lots of you straight folk just wish our issues would go away.

it's obvious to most of us. you believe our issues in the forefront cause our side to lose.

[Danger Mouse]

29. True: Karl Rove can go fuck himself.

[Kurska]

30. When you start letting your enemies define you, you've already lost

Fuck karl rove and Fuck his ilk, we either believe in gay rights or we don't, it's that simple.

Civil unions may be a compromise, but if we go 4 years without taking a stepforward on gay rights, be is enda or civil unions this administration will be been a sham. It will have betrayed the very foundation of the democratic party, equality.

What reason do gays have to stand with a party who won't stand beside them?

[DarthDem]

31. That's Enough About Karl Rove

Don't some of you get it? Rove's time has come and gone. He's done. He will not recover from losses in 2006 and 2008 (if he was even involved), and he may also have a few personal legal hurdles to overcome.

He's not a genius, never was a genius, and we can officially stop talking about him . . . now.

[Erin Elizabeth]

32. Karl Rove is sooooo 2003, seriously.

He's a douchenozzle.

[gmoney]

33. Why doesn't the DNC hire him?

Either have him pull dirty tricks for our side, or at least pay him to stay out of the fight?

Of course, I don't think money is his prime motivation...

[Motown_Johnny]

34. true.. any wedge issue for him will do, and this is a big one

[krawhitham]

35. Karl Rove in done

no one will use him in 2010 or 2012

[bridgit]

36. Well, duh!

[Touchdown]

37. It doesn't matter what he wants. Supporting equality is the right thing to do.

Besides, he will be in jail for rigging elections.

Besides, every single day gay marriage is talked about or debated, more people come to the correct answer. 2008 Prop 8 barely passed. 2010? Who knows, but I doubt it would pass again. Too many people will have seen the light by then.

It's called planting seeds, and it happens every day. even in your thread.