4.5%

[Occam Bandage]

Bush won 2004 by 2.4% of the vote. Obama won 2008 by 6.5% of the vote. That is a difference of 8.9%, or a shift in 4.5% of the electorate. The difference between our getting walloped nationwide in 2004, and our crushing victory in 2008, is 4.5% of the electorate. 4.5%. Fewer than 1 in 20 voters.

You can call it a mandate if you like. You can call it a narrow win if you like. You can call it whatever you like. But if you think for a minute that it's wise governance to ignore the center--if you think going all-out hyper-partisan is going to lead to long-term victory--keep in mind just what happened the last time a major political party governed from its base.

It pleased that base mightily. But it made 4.5% of America change its mind--and 4.5% is the difference between 2004 and 2008.

[EconomicLiberal]

1. What is the center?

Should we just be closet repukes in fear of not getting re-elected in 2012 if we do otherwise?

If the nation wants Republicanism, they'll just hire the real thing, not a cheap imitation.

[Occam Bandage]

3. I've seen arguments denying the existence of a center before.

Interestingly enough, they were made by disciples of the Permanent Republican Majority theory. Worked out well, wouldn't you say?

I'm not suggesting that Democrats abandon their values; that confuses and turns off the center just as much as aggressively ignoring the center does. I am, however, suggesting that Democrats not lose sight of the 4.5% of the electorate that switched from Bush to Obama. If you think they switched because they wanted to replace a hyperpartisan, ideologically inflexible right-winger with a hyperpartisan, ideologically inflexible left-winger, I suggest you try to imagine the mindset of such a person.

[EconomicLiberal]

10. I'm not denying the existence of a center.

I'm just asking what it is. How do you define it?

[Occam Bandage]

11. For the purposes of discussions along these lines,

voters who would be comfortable voting for either a Republican or a Democrat. For the purpose of this particular discussion, the aforementioned 4.5%.

[EconomicLiberal]

20. What issues define the center?

[Occam Bandage]

21. Sophistry grows tiresome quickly.

[Freddie Stubbs]

5. You're in the center if the conservatives say that you are too liberal and

the liberals say that you are too conservative.

[wyldwolf]

8. umm.. centrists are no more "closet repukes" than progressives are closet Marxists

Obama is a proponent of many policies you're probably assigning to "closet repukes."

[n2doc]

2. Ah yes. * "wins" by -0.1% and 2.5% and he can do what he wants

We win by 6.5% and we must be careful. Concern noted.

[Occam Bandage]

4. Yes, people did say that Bush had a "mandate" in '04. Turned out real well, too.

I bet the pubbies sure are glad Bush governed as if half the nation didn't exist. Yep, there wasn't a single downside to that type of governance. Not a one.

[n2doc]

6. The point is, leaders lead

Bush may have lead this country in a disastrous direction, but I suspect his "base", the 1% richest, is really happy with him. And they are the only ones who counted with him. And the reports of the demise of the Republican Party are very much premature.

The worst thing, absolutely the worst, would be for Obama to follow Pelosi and Reid and continue to enable Republican policy. If Obama leads wisely, and progressively, he will succeed, and the votes will follow. If he is wishy-washy about offending the RW, then he will fail. Because their policies Failed and will continue to fail.

[Occam Bandage]

9. There is a considerable difference between

"not wanting to piss off the RW" and "not wanting to piss off the center," though it can be awfully hard for partisans to see the difference. The Bushies certainly couldn't tell the difference between "pissing off the Left" and "pissing off everyone but the party faithful," and their Permanent Republican Majority ended up with Dems in the House, Senate, and Oval Office. If you think that the electoral stratagems of DeLay and Bush are recipes for success, then by all means, damn the 4.5% and full speed ahead. Keep in mind, though, that as you say, the Republican party is very much alive, and will be gunning for each and every voter that doesn't like frothy Democratic ideologues any more than they like frothy Republican ideologues.

[n2doc]

15. The ultimate goal is success

Frankly, I don't think there is a "center". What you do have are a lot of people who don't really care who is in office so long as they don't screw things up for them. Bush made that mistake, and it cost McCain and the Republicans the last election. Obama will be fine if he sets policies that make things better for most americans. How he does it really won't matter in the end if things get better. He could frankly nationalize all companies in the US if (obviously unlikely) it resulted on 1% inflation, 98% employment, and a big rise in wages by 2011.

Republican policies have been proven to fail. We know Democratic policies can work if given time and pursued vigorously. Regulation is needed. Taxes need to be raised on the well to do. National Infrastructure and research need to be attended to.

Again, if what he does works, it doesn't matter how many Rush'es and Hannity's scream socialist.

[bigbrother05]

18. A mandate is only as good as the the way you use it

Everything Bush touched has turned to shit. Obama has experienced ever growing success. Think I'm willing to trust the way our new President will lead our country. He has certainly earned the benefit of the doubt.

All Bush ever did was to benefit from the doubt.

[ChimpersMcSmirkers]

14. If you want a democratic majority for the foreseeable future, you may want to go slow.

My opinion is that we are talking about two different things in a way. There is the liberal ideal of where we want the country to go, and then there is reality and what a plurality of Americans are willing to go along with. American's don't want ideology, that much is clear from this election. I think it's less about liberal vs. conservative as it is pragmatism vs. ideology. American's want shit to get fixed. Obama's and the democrats job is to convince Americans that the way you fix them are with sound, realistic, and btw, progressive solutions. If the Dem's do this methodically then we have a sustainable majority for a long time...

[R. P. McMurphy]

16. Absolutely Correct!!! n/t

[n2doc]

17. Given Obama's decisions so far, I have no worries about going "too fast" n/t

[rucky]

7. I think competence is a bigger factor than partisanship.

re: "last time a major political party governed from its base"

[Occam Bandage]

13. I don't think the two concepts are entirely removed from each other.

In all countries, and in all types of government, partisanship and competence seem to be inversely linked. Certainly the hyperpartisanship of the Bush White House was a major reason for its incompetence; when it came to appointments and policies, they were more concerned with loyalty tests and ideological purity than they were with skills and results.

As Deng Xiaoping said as he began dismantling the ideological standards of the Mao regime, "It doesn't matter if a cat is black or white, so long as it catches mice."

[MattBaggins]

12. Who are you talking to?

Look at what people see as the two possibilities from recent history

Bush: Govern from his base reaching out to the middle only when he absolutely had to.
Clinton: Triangulated from the middle focusing on the 50+1 number.

I can only speak for myself; but I don't think that it asking too much that President Obama take the triangulation method and extend it a bit further. I would like to see him work from the middle but not forget the Democrats that elected him. I would prefer him to reach out a bit further to our side as much as possible.

[grantcart]

19. the whole left/right line is about to undergo a radical disintegration

as Obama brings his objective diagnosis to problems and finds solutions to stalemated ideological wars. Many of those solutions will simply defy left/right placement.

Our politics is about to go three dimensional and no longer be accurately described by a two dimensional line.

[Lumpsum]

22. I think Obama will govern from the center-left for his first four years.

Then in his second term, he'll lean more left.

But, who knows. He's already talking about doing some progressive things right away, IE - closing Gitmo and funding stem cell research.