Atheists in Foxholes: Preventing Religious Discrimination in the Military under an Obama Administrat

[prostock69]

Atheists and others with no religious affiliation make up 21% of the U.S. Armed Forces, and yet they suffer harassment, discrimination and proselytizing in a military increasingly dominated by a powerful minority of evangelical Christians. In a pre-Veterans Day proposal unveiled today (Nov. 10) at the National Press Club in Washington, D.C., the Coalition and its member organization the Military Association of Atheists and Freethinkers made a series of recommendations in a memo (link below) to President-elect Barack Obama as he considers staffing and policies regarding the military.

http://www.secular.org/news/Secular_Coalition_MAAF_Obama.pdf

I am posting this to bring light to another area that needs Obama's attention. There has been a lot of talk about the civil rights of Gays and Lesbians lately being under attack by the Christian Right. How about the civil rights for the non-believers serving in our Military?

I just thought this was just as important. They may not believe in a God, but they still love this country enough to put their lives on the line.

[sarcasmo]

1. A swift Kick and Nom from my Atheist foot.

[Blarch]

2. yep.

k&r

[HowHasItComeToThis]

3. FOR FURTHER READING

VISIT http://www.militaryreligiousfreedom.org/

[prostock69]

5. Thank you so much for the link in your post!

:thumbsup:

[Occam Bandage]

4. "I just thought this was just as important."

Atheists are not discharged for atheism, nor are they denied partner benefits for their atheism. Equal protection for atheists is important, but a comparison between the civil rights denied to atheists and the civil rights denied to GLBTs--in the military or in society at large--is perhaps not a comparison that has been fully thought out.

[prostock69]

8. I wasn't comparing the two. You are.

I was simply bringing up another civil rights issue that doesn't get talked about AT ALL. Don't make this into a discussion of which group's civil rights have been violated the most. I am fully behind GLBT's rights to adopt and to get married. There is a movement in this country, as you well know, to take the rights away from certain sects of people who threaten the God-fearing Christians in this country. I am concerned that if they succeed with the GLBT community, we will be next.

[Occam Bandage]

9. Ah, so you're saying then

that the importance of a civil rights issue has nothing to do with the extent to which civil rights are being denied*. I think that's kind of a poorly-thought-out argument (it can lead to some preposterous hypotheticals), but I suppose it isn't that important.

Oh, and if you don't want minority-rights discussions to trend towards the comparative, don't make comparisons. It does have a tendency to lead the discussion down very unpleasant paths.



*To preempt argument: If two movements to restore denied rights are equally important, then it implies one of three things: that the denied rights are equal in severity, that the severity of the denial is not materially important, or that there is some external factor that makes the problems of side that's more discriminated against inherently less important. I won't assume you believe the third, and you've denied the first, so we're at the second.

[Chulanowa]

11. You're not very good at this

To troll properly, you have to misspell more. And include a link to that PBS poll in your sig or something.

You have to be a little daffy to believe - as you apparently do - that it's only possible to support one movement for civil rights protections at a time, that religious freedom in the military should take a back burner to freedom of sexual orientation in the military. Of course it shouldn't, and the same is true if we switch them around.

They may be very inequal in severity as you point out, but they are equal in importance, because either way we're seeing someone's rights get shredded and pissed on. Should either get the under-a-bus treatment by the other?

[alwysdrunk]

14. So you can never compare the gay struggle to the black struggle again

You sound just like black people who say that because gays were never sprayed with firehoses and lynched by klan members with impunity, all parallels between the two movements are irrelevant.

[starroute]

6. I'd hate for the military to become a right-wing power base

Now that their thirty-year-old bit for electoral clout seems to be guttering out, the religious right is likely to be looking for other means of achieving the worldly power they believe is rightfully theirs. Their increasing influence over the military, at the military colleges, and in military towns is one of the most worrisome of those potential avenues.

I'm not quite ready to say "Bring back the draft" to counter it, but there has to be some way of making sure the United States armed forces are not taken over by Christian militants. Exposing their crude and hate-filled tactics is certainly a place to start.

[Rhiannon12866]

7. Terrific post! Thank you... K&R.

:applause::hi::patriot:

[donco6]

10. This is a very real problem.

The AF Academy is infested with fundagelicals.

[AnnieBW]

12. Pagans in the Military

are discriminated against, too. Basically anyone who isn't Christian is shat upon by their fellow soldiers and chaplains.

[alwysdrunk]

13. 21%! That's higher than I would have thought

IMO Atheists will be the LAST group to gain acceptance. I think gays will get much further faster than non-believers do.

A morbid thought, what symbol do they get on their headstones? Like the Muslim kid Colin Powell mentioned got the crescent?

[prostock69]

15. Let's don't forget what George H.W. Bush said to an Atheist Reporter

Interview by Rob Sherman on August 27, 1987:

Mr. Bush questions whether atheists should be regarded as citizens

I asked Mr. Bush, "What are you going to do to win the votes of Americans who are atheists?"

Mr. Bush replied, "I guess I'm pretty weak in the atheist community. Faith in God is important to me."

I followed up: "Do you support the equal citizenship and patriotism of Americans who are atheists?"

Mr. Bush replied, "I don't know that atheists should be regarded as citizens, nor should they be regarded as patriotic. This is one nation under God."

After other reporters asked a few questions about issues that they were concerned about, I was then able to get in one more follow-up question on my subject: "Do you support the constitutionality of state/church separation?"

Vice President Bush responded, "I support separation of church and state. I'm just not very high on atheists."

If the Father Bush felt that way, it's fair to say that Bush, Jr. felt the same way.