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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 07:30 AM Original message |
President Clinton left America in a State of Wealth, Peaceful, Stable, and a yearly SURPLUS |
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riqster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 07:32 AM Response to Original message |
1. True! |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 07:57 AM Response to Original message |
2. But the people at the bottom didn't get much of it |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:32 AM Response to Reply #2 |
5. His 'free' trade agreements destroyed many industries that had been in America since the industrial |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:34 AM Response to Reply #5 |
8. like what? |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:57 AM Response to Reply #8 |
12. If only you worked as hard for Main street as you spin for Wall street, wyldwolf. |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:00 AM Response to Reply #12 |
15. see, I ask for examples and a connection and you offer up insults. |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:03 AM Response to Reply #15 |
17. I repeat, "I'll come back with some hard data later, if someone hasn't beaten me to it by then." |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:05 AM Response to Reply #17 |
18. OK, but make sure you also provide the connection to Clinton policies |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:09 AM Response to Reply #18 |
19. "these industries had been declining ..." Which industries would those be, wyldwolf? (nt) |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:12 AM Response to Reply #19 |
21. Instead of coming back with hard data, you came back with a diversion |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:33 AM Response to Reply #21 |
25. It sounds to me like you already know which industries I am going to talk about, as I expected. |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:48 AM Response to Reply #25 |
28. sounds to me you're still avoiding the question |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 07:47 PM Response to Reply #28 |
61. respond to #26. NYC_SKP is accurate enough for now. (nt) |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:07 PM Response to Reply #61 |
68. as inaccurate as it is, it still doesn't prove your point |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 11:10 PM Response to Reply #68 |
73. What did Clinton do to make these industries more competitive? |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 08:09 AM Response to Reply #73 |
93. Why divert from the topic? |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 11:39 AM Response to Reply #93 |
98. This is the topic. The topic is how Clinton's policies decimated American industries. |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 12:07 PM Response to Reply #98 |
100. which you haven't proven beyond the standard "because I said so." |
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NYC_SKP (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:40 AM Response to Reply #8 |
26. Textiles, home appliances, light and heavy tools and machinery... |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:33 AM Response to Reply #2 |
6. the people at the bottom got tons of it |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:49 AM Response to Reply #6 |
9. Incomes for the bottom 20% barely budged, and then only by 1998 |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:58 AM Response to Reply #9 |
14. the bottom 20% is a BIG amount of people, but your post is still wrong |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:27 AM Response to Reply #14 |
23. The EITC was to a large extent cancelled out by welfare "reform" |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:47 AM Response to Reply #23 |
27. ahem |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:18 AM Response to Reply #27 |
33. Incomes did not keep up with expenses in the 90s |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:19 AM Response to Reply #33 |
34. the stats show they did |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:22 AM Response to Reply #34 |
36. Not on the planet I live on |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:25 AM Response to Reply #36 |
37. your planet is Bizarro world... incomes rose faster than the rate of inflation |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:41 AM Response to Reply #37 |
41. Infllation is another bullshit indicator which ignores food, energy, rent and utilities |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:51 AM Response to Reply #41 |
44. I see a trend of yours: If it contradicts you, it's a "bullshit indicator." |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 07:56 PM Response to Reply #44 |
63. Those are bullshit indicators. |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:48 PM Response to Reply #63 |
65. suuuuure they are. wink wink |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:16 PM Response to Reply #65 |
70. You still refuse to explain what they have to do with real life |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:42 PM Response to Reply #70 |
71. now you're not only calling anything inconvenient to your beliefs "bullshit," you now... |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 12:58 AM Response to Reply #71 |
77. They aren't relevant to real people's lives. |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 06:16 AM Response to Reply #77 |
84. they are to people in poverty. Hey, I guess LBJ's war on poverty was bullshit according to you |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 08:52 AM Response to Reply #84 |
95. There is real world poverty, and then there is statistical "poverty" |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 09:32 AM Response to Reply #95 |
96. So statistical poverty are those that did better under Clinton - the ones that weren't real. Got it |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 10:36 PM Response to Reply #96 |
114. You aren't doing better if your real expenses outpace your income growth |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-03-08 06:20 AM Response to Reply #114 |
122. except they weren't |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-03-08 07:50 AM Response to Reply #122 |
123. They were for most people I know |
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Jamastiene (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 03:45 AM Response to Reply #14 |
80. ... |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 06:17 AM Response to Reply #80 |
85. ..and it's absolutely jaw dropping watching eridani declare poverty and inflation is bullshit... |
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quickesst (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 07:09 AM Response to Reply #14 |
89. Construction worker here.... |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 08:10 AM Response to Reply #89 |
94. I couldn't agree with you more |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:08 AM Response to Original message |
3. This is true, but things were already coming unraveled in 2000. |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 11:16 AM Response to Reply #3 |
46. Had Gore been President...we woulda been spared a load of HURT |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 11:58 AM Response to Reply #46 |
47. Yes, but the tech bubble had still burst. |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:45 PM Response to Reply #47 |
51. Techie world woulda gone Wild with growth and profits...much more than it did under Bushie Boy |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 02:06 PM Response to Reply #51 |
54. What makes you say that? In 2000 tech was already crashing. |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:55 PM Response to Reply #54 |
67. There are other Bubbles besides the Techie One...which I am wrong about |
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Grateful for Hope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 07:37 AM Response to Reply #51 |
91. I don't think so |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 02:39 PM Response to Reply #91 |
102. Had Bush bothered to think...he woulda invested the surplus more wisely than giving it awayt |
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Festivito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 02:43 PM Response to Reply #3 |
55. NOPE, that's just anti-Dem hype. That was not an "unraveling". |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 03:53 PM Response to Reply #55 |
58. shhh! None of that debunking allowed on DU |
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JVS (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 07:14 PM Response to Reply #55 |
60. When a bubble bursts, although there need not be a bailout, tax revenue falls. |
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Festivito (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 06:25 AM Response to Reply #60 |
87. Despite the bubble pop, Clinton managed a surplus. |
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Grateful for Hope (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 07:26 AM Response to Reply #3 |
90. Yes, things were already coming unraveled -- at least at the end |
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zbdent (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:29 AM Response to Original message |
4. and that surplus was from a CONSERVATIVE estimate ... |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:34 AM Response to Original message |
7. right wing inspired disagreements forthcoming... duck and cover |
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dmallind (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:49 AM Response to Original message |
10. Yep ...and a bunch of DUers HATE him for it. Go figure. NT |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:51 AM Response to Reply #10 |
11. The hate is for the ongoing destruction of our industrial base, deregulation |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:01 AM Response to Reply #11 |
16. ha ha... nope |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:09 AM Response to Reply #16 |
20. I have to prove that Clinton pushed financial deregulation? |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:13 AM Response to Reply #20 |
22. You don't have to prove anything |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:28 AM Response to Reply #22 |
24. So you're enjoying the repeal of Glass-Steagall and our current meltdown? n/t |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:48 AM Response to Reply #24 |
29. Clinton didn't repeal Glass-Steagall |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:11 AM Response to Reply #29 |
30. He signed it, and advocated deregulation in general |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:16 AM Response to Reply #30 |
31. so? Veto-proof majorities mean something. |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:21 AM Response to Reply #31 |
35. And why were there veto-proof majorities? |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:26 AM Response to Reply #35 |
38. left wing myth |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:43 AM Response to Reply #38 |
42. Having to do with entirely giving up on cultivating small donors |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:49 AM Response to Reply #42 |
43. see.. |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 07:53 PM Response to Reply #43 |
62. And we lost state houses and governorships by the dozens |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:49 PM Response to Reply #62 |
66. right, but that had very little to do with donations |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:12 PM Response to Reply #66 |
69. Those "liberals" threw out all their grassroots mailing lists and focused on large donors only |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:44 PM Response to Reply #69 |
72. it doesn't take long for you to spiral into irrelevancy |
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eridani (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 12:59 AM Response to Reply #72 |
78. Why not tell us all what was so great about Jim Crow and illegal abortion? |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 06:15 AM Response to Reply #78 |
83. why not learn the difference between discussing events and endorsing event...and stay on topic? |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-03-08 02:21 AM Response to Reply #31 |
121. It means that a veto would be overturned |
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Mojorabbit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 12:10 AM Response to Reply #20 |
76. Don't bother |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 06:18 AM Response to Reply #76 |
86. ah, another one who thinks poverty and inflation are meaningless to real people |
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Mojorabbit (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 06:35 AM Response to Reply #86 |
88. I don't feel like playing. nt |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 08:07 AM Response to Reply #88 |
92. or being rational, for that matter. |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 05:43 PM Response to Reply #86 |
106. Poverty and inflation are quite meaningful |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 08:45 PM Response to Reply #106 |
109. of course... the numbers were fudged to make Clinton look better... ok.... |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-03-08 02:13 AM Response to Reply #109 |
119. I didn't say that. |
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11 Bravo (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:32 PM Response to Reply #11 |
50. Glass - Steagall went down by a vote of 90-8 in the Senate and 362-57 in the house, so of course ... |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 05:44 PM Response to Reply #50 |
107. Did someone drag his hand with the pen in it to the bill to sign? |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 10:18 PM Response to Reply #107 |
113. A president can't stop something that's veto proof. If he could, it would be a veto |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-03-08 02:19 AM Response to Reply #113 |
120. Where is it writtten that you can't veto if there's a veto proof majority. |
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Raineyb (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-03-08 09:32 AM Response to Reply #120 |
124. To clearify |
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BeyondGeography (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 08:58 AM Response to Original message |
13. The past eight years have been nothing short of tragic |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:16 AM Response to Reply #13 |
32. Its been a Travesty of Common Sense and Logic....Truth and Sanity went into hiding |
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suston96 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:34 AM Response to Original message |
39. He put his money where his mouth was....... |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 11:13 AM Response to Reply #39 |
45. Boy...did Bush ever fuck that up...damn///5.7trillion compared to the 10/4 Debt we got now |
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kiva (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 10:36 AM Response to Original message |
40. K&R n/t |
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mvd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:03 PM Response to Original message |
48. NAFTA should have never happened |
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mvd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:27 PM Response to Reply #48 |
49. Just to clarify.. |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:46 PM Response to Reply #49 |
52. He was in charge...he gets the Heat...he LIED to us....the biggest LIE was WMD |
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mvd (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 12:48 PM Response to Reply #52 |
53. Certainly did lie - over and over |
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atimetocome (236 posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 03:23 PM Response to Original message |
56. YES he did. |
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WHAT (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 03:50 PM Response to Original message |
57. This is the context the Hillary nomination makes sense... |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 09:47 PM Response to Reply #57 |
64. If it makes sense...economic and otherwise, then by all means go for the Best available... |
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slackmaster (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 03:56 PM Response to Original message |
59. The company I was working for in 2000 got hit very hard when the dot com bubble burst |
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slipslidingaway (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 11:34 PM Response to Original message |
74. Did the surplus include the SS Trust Fund money? n/t |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 02:07 AM Response to Reply #74 |
79. To my knowledge....no..... |
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slipslidingaway (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 06:20 PM Response to Reply #79 |
108. I agree the debt is insane and handing over the bailout money |
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slipslidingaway (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 09:39 PM Response to Reply #79 |
110. Link with graph and notes... |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 10:04 PM Response to Reply #110 |
111. Thanks for the facts and update |
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slipslidingaway (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 11:58 PM Response to Reply #111 |
116. No problem :) n/t |
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TankLV (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Mon Dec-01-08 11:56 PM Response to Original message |
75. Yep! We could do a LOT worse if we "returned" to his policies! |
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sohndrsmith (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 03:51 AM Response to Original message |
81. I agree with you on your analogy of Bush, but... what is the statement you're trying to make?n/t |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 05:53 AM Response to Reply #81 |
82. The point is simple: Clinton leaves Bush a Nation intact and running smoothly |
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derby378 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 09:58 AM Response to Original message |
97. If Clinton had just left the Second Amendment alone... |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 11:43 AM Response to Reply #97 |
99. three comments on that |
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derby378 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 02:43 PM Response to Reply #99 |
103. I think too many analysts overemphasize Ralph Nader's role in 2000 |
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wyldwolf (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 02:50 PM Response to Reply #103 |
104. you can disagree on how much of a role nader played, but not that he played a role... |
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derby378 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 02:57 PM Response to Reply #104 |
105. Duly noted |
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martymar64 (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 01:50 PM Response to Original message |
101. But it all unravelled within 5 months of Clinton leaving |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 10:15 PM Response to Reply #101 |
112. And what did Bush do as things unraveled??? He got mooned for one, and went golfing after hearing of |
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w4rma (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Tue Dec-02-08 10:44 PM Response to Reply #112 |
115. Noone is saying Bush is better than Clinton (or anyone else who held the power of the Presidency).nt |
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ShortnFiery (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-03-08 12:00 AM Response to Original message |
117. Clinton implemented much of the banking deregulation that helped usher in this impending Depression. |
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opihimoimoi (1000+ posts) Send PM | Profile | Ignore | Wed Dec-03-08 01:29 AM Response to Reply #117 |
118. As an MBA he soulda known the dereg was no good and taken measures to reverse the effects |
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